Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Jick42

Jick42

Private
Minuteman
Sep 26, 2003
43
0
46
Missouri
#1
So it's 11:30pm two nights ago. We get home from my wifes parents. we get the girls off to bed. My wife and I go in our bedroom, get dressed for bed, then head to the kitchen for a snack. It had been snowing all day here in Missouri. So while standing in the dining room looking outside, we both see a set of footprints coming from the woods leading to the access door to the underneath of our house. Standing inside i couldn't see if the door had been opened or not. So, i set my bowl of cereal on the table, opened our French Doors and sure enough, the door was opened, and actually laying on the ground. My heart SANK!!!

My wife, quietly goes down and gathers our girls up and takes them to our room. She get's her pistol (Glock 22), while i am getting my clothes back on to go check out what i fear may be someone under the house or worse, possibly in the house. So, i get my clothes back on and get my AR. Now i grabbed my AR because it has a light on it, and i would be able to under the house and be able to scan everything. With my wife standing guard inside keeping an eye out the back window in case something happened to me, or someone took off, she would still be able to see what was going on while guarding the girls.

I slip outside, go around the corner of the house, and sure enough, the door was there laying on the ground. At this point i am still staying calm and rational thinking, but you know when you get that feeling and your HEART sinks to the pits of your stomach. Well, that's the point I was at. Now, i simply "GLANCED" at the tracks in the snow, which i will come back to in a minute and touch on why I should have inspected those "FIRST". But, I crouch down, and it's hard to explain cause it's really and ackward crawl space, so it's not the easiest thing to get into,without carrying a gun, much less and AR. I position myself the best i can, put the barrel of the gun in, poke my head in and shine the light. (Thinking to myself the whole time, I'm going to take one to the back of the head cause i can't see right behind me when i stick my head in). Nothing, i spin my head around and halfass get the gun around still while on my knees. I make my way completely under the house, check everything out. NOTHING!!!

I go back outside, feeling a little pizzed off at myself as to how clumbsy i was at the angle of going in under the house. So, i get back on my feet outside and go to check out the tracks. Instantly i feel like a dumbazz. Our neighbors about a mile down the road have a big Great Dane, and sure enough, those were Jessie's tracks. I took a sigh of relief, but was still very disappointed at MYSELF. Firstly, i probably should have looked at the tracks, but the only thing on my mind was to scan my house for any possible threat. Secondly, i believe i should have grabbed for one of my handguns, but i felt like having the light on my AR was the better choice. Now, i don't know if it was the right choice or not. It was very hard to manuever in the tight spaces.

Aside from what i felt like was a mistake in choosing my weapon, i was very calm, level headed and ready for whatever threat that may have presented itself. I constantly found myself trying to think ahead. As far as my wife, and her READINESS & PREPARDNESS, i was completely amazed!! All my hard work has paid off with her. I know my life is in good hands with her as my backup. These are the benefits of involving our wives & family in firearms. Of course the girls never got scared, Mommy told them daddy was just checking on a possum in the backyard, so they didn't have a clue. No reason to scare the little ones if you don't have to.

I posted this because i wanted to get your guys feedback and what you think, i could have done differently, what weapon you think i should have chosen or what you would have done or how you may have handled it differently. Things like this make you think or re-think!! Overall i was happy, just could have done a few things differently i feel. And who knows, maybe next time it won't be a dog, and my selection of weaponry could cost me my life. Just makes you think!!

Please, i want feedback. Constructive Criticism is what this is about. I will take no offense to anything!! I know there is a WEALTH of knowledge here.
 
#2
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

i dont think you could have done any better, your first priority was your wife and kids which was smart, the gun was a good choice and i dont think not looking over the tracks was a mistake either, you went with what your gut told you and checked the house. just be happy you still have all your stuff and it was just a dog lol. i had the same experience, came home from work in the middle of the day back when i lived with my parents and our front door was sitting on the ground, got my shotgun(20g with no tube with 00buck and slugs staggered so i have "options")i checked the whole house and surrounding woods but it was too late they walked past my guns past my moms jewelry and stole 3500$ my mom was fixing to use to buy my first truck ugh. atleast you have guns and lights and are prepared!i think you did fine. you could have been one of those pussies that hides in the closet and calls the cops and waits for them to get there
 
#4
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crl49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cool story






bro
</div></div>

Well, i posted the story to get feedback. I know we have Law Enforcement, Military & guys who face these situations "DAILY". Honestly, MOST of us do not have to encounter this in our everyday lives, if EVER. And I have been replaying it in my mind wondering what i could have done different or more efficiently. It makes you realize you can never train enough, or have your mind mentally prepared to much for these occurances. Sure, it was just a dog this time, and i can sit back and re-evaluate the situation, but what if next time it's the real deal. I would like to be confident.
 
#5
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

I probably wouldnt have checked the tracks right way either, I used to be tied between my scatter gun and a pistol. But one night for some damn reason after my wife and I had gone to bed our bedroom door, which was shut, shook like a bastard kinda like someone was on the other side pulling on the knob, I was up with the scat. and It didnt feel right at all to long to go opening doors and then shoulder, so now Id just grab the glock. fuckin dogs...
 
#7
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smboudreaux</div><div class="ubbcode-body">your wife calmy gather up the girls and stood gaurd? thats awesome!!! my wife woulda freaked out and turned into a walking panic attack </div></div>

The lady has a level head on her. I'm so proud of her. She can shoot the lights out of that Glock as well.
 
#8
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crl49</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cool story






bro
</div></div>

Don't you know that ^ this guy would have put on his tac gear, grabbed an AR in each hand and flashbanged in that crawl space first? I mean anyone knows thats how you handle it geez.

Sounds like you reacted perfectly, followed your instincts and your wife did great.
 
#9
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Folks that you pay folding money to for the purposes of instruction tend to advocate the following:

- don't be there
- arm yourself with the gun that shoots the biggest bullets the fastest with the most capacity
- white light(s)
- hunker in the bunker while covering the fatal funnel and working the phone
- letting the Pros from Dover clear the structure


A single person is extremely limited in their ability to cover all angles *and* depth of angle at any one time.

I wasn't there, you were and did what you felt you needed to do.

Glad it all worked out.

Good luck
 
#11
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Checking the signs was a big issue in my book. There could have been 3-4 guys walking in each others footsteps, a fight you dont want to start. The real mistake would be to contact Law enforcement asap, start someone coming there even non emergency, keep the phone line connected with LE. Next would be to evacuate your daughters while your both armed, to a vehicle and have your wife drive the vehicle 50-100yds. By doing this they have an escape route, no crossfires, help is enroute, you can now investigate. In a rural area with a long response time, calling the neighbors is another good option
 
#13
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

TexaGator, your knowledge is so appreciated for the limited visualization and understanding of my house that you have. I appreciate everyones feedback and advice.

Things like this really make us take a step back, and realize we can never train enough, prepare mentally enough!!

I like the advice that was given about getting my wife and girls out to the vehicle and having the drive down the road.
 
#15
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

First and foremost I'm glad that it was only a dog and that things worked out for you in a positive manner. 2nd of all, its nice to see someone that take an experience like this and turn it into opportunity to better prepare himself should it happen again.

That being said, I think one of the first things that should have been done was to call 911 and advise them of the situation while at the same time informing them that both you and your wife were armed and that there were children in the house. Get the police coming as soon as possible. Not sure where you live but around here, a possible burglary in progress will bring several cars to the scene (rather quickly) plus a K9 in order to do a perp search.

As far as your choice of weapon, I can understand and agree with the need for the light but I don't think I would have went with an AR for a couple of reasons. Being that you're in the house, you have to account for where those rounds may end up. Not sure what type of ammo you have but you need to remember that most rifle ammo will pass through sheet rock, drywall, ceilings, studs and floors. You have to keep in mind your family in the next room or the floor above or below.

Another reason that I would go against the AR is because it's not easy to clear rooms with it, much less crawl spaces under a house. A bad guy sees that barrel coming in and he can easily get a hold of it and now you're in a wrestling match for your weapon. As opposed to a handgun where you can keep it in close and punch it out only when you have too.

A shotgun is great for stopping just about anyone but again, they're big, long and a pain in the ass to maneuver with around tight spaces. If a weapon mounted light is what you're worried about, just get one for your pistol. Many pistols now come with rails so that you can slip on a Surefire or Streamlight and even if your gun doesn't have a rail both of the aforementioned companies make adapters so that you can securely mount a light on your weapon.

One more thing about lights, whenever I search a house, commercial building, school, whatever, I never have the light on constantly. Point your weapon/light where you want to see and shine it on, clear your area and turn it off again. Keeping the light OFF after you've cleared an area will preserve some of your night vision and make you LESS of a target for the bad guy. If you keep it on the whole time you're doing your search, he may know you're coming long before you get there.

I can't stress enough that you should call for help next time. It's a lot easier to dial 911 BEFORE the bullets start flying or you get into a scuffle.

Sounds like you and your wife kept your cool, had a plan and acted on it. Only other thing I would add (which you already covered) is you should have looked at the tracks a bit closer and listen for any noise.

Good job and stay safe.
 
#16
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Glad it turned out to be a false alarm. Remind me not to go hunting with you
laugh.gif
 
#18
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

unless it was a Snowshoe Rabbit......






Cause then you have to wonder........ Rabbit?














Or Lowlight?








Call for fire. Danger close.
 
#19
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dog tracks versus human boots?



I would have just called artillery onto my own grid coordinates. </div></div>

grin.gif
 
#21
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Get a good dog. When you get home the dog will tell you everything you need to know before you unlock the front door.

No dog?!! Trouble inside.

Clearing by yourself sucks. For the price of kibble, scooping some poop, and some shedding you wouldn't have to clear your house by yourself. If I go somewhere and take the dog, the dog is the first one in the house. If someone is inside she will find them in the first 20 seconds...
 
#22
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Before OEF VII we were vacationing in Oahu, Hawaii visiting Panty 6's family. While there I was deeply involved with trying to rescue a local Samoan son who jumped from the pier and broke his neck. Doing the Emergency Procedures I was trained in as a Combat Life Saver were so strong that the Lifegurds let me run it until I tired with the heart thrusts and moved aside.
What did that real life experience prepare me for?
The first three months in Afghanistan during OEF VII we were first responder to over 30 victims of accidents, firefights, suicide bombings, and mine strikes.
Never in my life had I thought I would see so much blood, or so many bloodied people. ANything here is easy by comparison
 
#23
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

IF your NEAREST neighbor was 1/2 mile the Ar seems like a good choice.
Myself, the Kimber 1911 if I have to clear the house, but if I am holding up in the bedroom - Remington 870 babeeeeeeee....

Sounds like you did right - considering your wife had your back - some women don't do that so you'd be staying with them otherwise...


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">unless it was a Snowshoe Rabbit......

</div></div>
Arctic SnowShoe rabbit - those tracks are almost 8"
bunny.jpg
 
#24
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Glad everything worked out OK. I have had one of these moments before too. Mine actually was a two legger, but turned out to not be a threat. One night the wife caught a glimpse of a man walking around the side of our house, then we heard a downstairs door open. I made it downstairs to find out he was going to a party at my nieghbors house and mis-understood the directions. I did learn that you get someone's attention and full cooperation real quick when you are pointing an MP5 at his dick.

I think you did OK. I personally would not have called the cops either until I knew for sure who was there, how many, were they still there, etc. Normally, this would be hard to do, but you had snow, so it worked out well.

The AR was the right choice, period. Never grab a pistol when you have a rifle. The point about penetration is a good one though, just always be concious of that.

If you would have established that there were foot prints going in, but not out, the call would be made.

Texagator gave some great advice. If you really think someone is in your house, hole up in a sfe place and then clear outward. Do not neglect to look anywhere.

Don't EVER go into a room, area or crawlspace without sweeping it first. Start at one side of the opening against the wall, walk in a wide arc around the opening "sweeping" the area with your light. You can not 100% of a room this way, but you can get a lot of it. It is better to realize there is a threat in the room while you are still out of the room. That would have given you the opportunity to move possitions.

Would you have performed a sweep and found someone to be in there, you get to the wall you started your sweep and guard the entry way until LEOs show up. Let him know that you are locked in on the door and if he tries to exit, you will assume he is attacking and be forced to defend yourself.

The above is assuming that there was only one way in and out. If there would have been access to your house, like Texagator said, start there. You want to always flush an intruder away from your family. That is the same purpose of the clear outward approach.
 
#25
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

+1 a good dog will hear things you don't hear, smell things you don't smell, see stuff you don't see and will always give YOU at least an extra 20 seconds to prepare when things go bump in the night. That will take care of the last 5% who would not just pick a different house because "that guy has a big dog"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a good dog. When you get home the dog will tell you everything you need to know before you unlock the front door.

No dog?!! Trouble inside.

Clearing by yourself sucks. For the price of kibble, scooping some poop, and some shedding you wouldn't have to clear your house by yourself. If I go somewhere and take the dog, the dog is the first one in the house. If someone is inside she will find them in the first 20 seconds... </div></div>
 
#26
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most importantly--did your wife give you a "heros thank you" afterwords?
smile.gif
</div></div>

She's a GREAT GARDENER!! She plants amzing 2LIPS!!!
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
 
#27
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a good dog. When you get home the dog will tell you everything you need to know before you unlock the front door.

No dog?!! Trouble inside.

Clearing by yourself sucks. For the price of kibble, scooping some poop, and some shedding you wouldn't have to clear your house by yourself. If I go somewhere and take the dog, <span style="color: #FF0000">the dog is the first one in the house. If someone is inside she will find them in the first 20 seconds... </span> </div></div>

What kind of dog do you have? I've yet to see trained police dogs find a perp in a house that quick.
 
#28
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Small house
smile.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get a good dog. When you get home the dog will tell you everything you need to know before you unlock the front door.

No dog?!! Trouble inside.

Clearing by yourself sucks. For the price of kibble, scooping some poop, and some shedding you wouldn't have to clear your house by yourself. If I go somewhere and take the dog, <span style="color: #FF0000">the dog is the first one in the house. If someone is inside she will find them in the first 20 seconds... </span> </div></div>

What kind of dog do you have? I've yet to see trained police dogs find a perp in a house that quick.</div></div>
 
#29
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think you did OK. <span style="color: #FF0000">I personally would not have called the cops either until I knew for sure who was there, how many, were they still there, etc.</span> Normally, this would be hard to do, but you had snow, so it worked out well.

</div></div>

Just curious, why would you be against calling the police right off the bat? Where is the harm in doing so? You can always call back and cancel if you determine that there is no emergency.

I see what you're saying as far as wanting to investigate a little further but if during the course of your investigation you bump into one of multiple bad guys, you might not get a chance to make that call.
 
#30
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Jick,

What explains your neighbor's dog tearing your door off?

There's no way I would have gone into the crawl space, especially with a rifle. The rest would be Monday morning quarterbacking. Not fair to you.

I have two girls as well and can understand the stress of finding evidence of a break in just as you are settling in for the night. Glad it was just an excercise.
 
#31
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

Panty 6 gets the Benelli and the kids, the dog is set loose, and I go after him with the AR. If she calls the LEO that's fine, but if anything goes down, they will only make it there in time for a report after the adrenalin is long gone and the dog is happily cracking treats from his treat ball and the kids are back on X-Box or asleep. We are truly in the stix, but I think a few neighbors are LEO so they may get here a lot faster if they hear the popcorn. Me, I don't call the cops, that's her job
grin.gif
 
#32
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

This is exactly the kind of responses i was looking for. I knew with all the experience on this site, that it would come easy. There are far to many responses to thank each one individually, so i just wanted to take the time to thank you ALL you have commented and added your thoughts.

Makes me realize why i love being a member here. <span style="font-weight: bold">THANK YOU ALL</span>!
 
#33
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

I had a very simlar experince. We come home one night about 11:00 and there is a car sitting in the driveway. I cut the light off on the truck and ease up the drive (800 yds) to the house. Just about the time we get within 60 or 70 yards of the house we see a face looking out the bedroom window with no lights on. I slip out of the truck and told my wife and duaghter to stay in the truck.As I move up to the house i saw the face move in the window. I shot thru the window with a load of OO buck I went back to the truck and got my wife to call 911 while she sit in the truck I went to the back of the house to make sure no one slipped out while we waited for the LEO to show up. When they got there I had to hear all about shooting into my own house. I explained to them all of my family was in the truck anybody in the house should have not been there. They went in and spent 45 minutes searching the house could not find anyone. I knew there was no way I could have missed. We searched the house for another hour with no luck. Next day I get the window replaced and life moves on about a month goes by And I come home late again one night and there is the face. I tell my wife to stay in the truck I start to slip around to the back of the house and she call me on my cell and tells me as I went anround the house the face disappeared for a moment. This goes bcak and forth as I move from the front to the back waitng for the LEO to show up. We cannot find anyone. It took four of us to finaly figured out the power company had replaced the meter on the side of the house about 2 months before the first sighting and when they moved it and there was a full moon It made a face on the bedroom window. It ended up costing me 200.00 for not paying attention. The one good thing that came out of it once word got around no one will even turn around in the drive way anymore.
 
#35
Re: Real World Experiences That Teach Us!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buckbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a very simlar experince. We come home one night about 11:00 and there is a car sitting in the driveway. I cut the light off on the truck and ease up the drive (800 yds) to the house. Just about the time we get within 60 or 70 yards of the house we see a face looking out the bedroom window with no lights on. I slip out of the truck and told my wife and duaghter to stay in the truck.As I move up to the house i saw the face move in the window. I shot thru the window with a load of OO buck I went back to the truck and got my wife to call 911 while she sit in the truck I went to the back of the house to make sure no one slipped out while we waited for the LEO to show up. When they got there I had to hear all about shooting into my own house. I explained to them all of my family was in the truck anybody in the house should have not been there. They went in and spent 45 minutes searching the house could not find anyone. I knew there was no way I could have missed. We searched the house for another hour with no luck. Next day I get the window replaced and life moves on about a month goes by And I come home late again one night and there is the face. I tell my wife to stay in the truck I start to slip around to the back of the house and she call me on my cell and tells me as I went anround the house the face disappeared for a moment. This goes bcak and forth as I move from the front to the back waitng for the LEO to show up. We cannot find anyone. It took four of us to finaly figured out the power company had replaced the meter on the side of the house about 2 months before the first sighting and when they moved it and there was a full moon It made a face on the bedroom window. It ended up costing me 200.00 for not paying attention. The one good thing that came out of it once word got around no one will even turn around in the drive way anymore. </div></div>

The Man in the Moon, I'll be dipped! Sounds like the 'Hooded Man' we had one night. Kids came running up that there was a 'Hooded Man' looking out the window of our bottom floor house. I went to see what was up, walked around the house a few times looking, and one of the kids ran to the rest of the adults and said they saw the 'Hooded Man' again. When I ran up to them looking, I got laughs. I was wearing a black hoody and when I ducked to go into my house to piss(under the jackets in the mud room) my hood came up so I left it....yeah...Hooded Man indeed!
 
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