School me on titanium actions

[Supersubes]

Material characteristics strongly disagree with your assessment, which is why titanium is so rarely used in firearms of any type regardless of application or budget. The fact of the matter is that steel is usually the best choice even when cost is not the primary concern. If you want a lighter product, use a higher-grade steel and less of it; there are much better choices than what Remington has used, and cross-sections could be reduced accordingly.

Given that the majority of raw titanium product comes from China, your "if it has been made correctly" caveat is doing some heavy lifting. This is an extraordinarily difficult material to process at every step, and the consequences of errors are generally higher than with other materials.

Well said!

 

[ToddM]

No clue how hard rifle actions are heat treated to......I'd guess pretty soft at least by knife blade standards, but you absolutely cannot get Ti heat treated as hard as steel. There's a reason no one makes knife blades from titanium unless they are looking for the anti-magnetic properties. For a long time Titanium has been used in general consumer products almost as a marketing gimmick in applications where it provides no real advantage but as an excuse to charge high prices or get the consumer to believe it's a "space age" product.

While Titanium is much harder to grind deeply than steel, it's oxidation layer is much softer, so it's much easier to have surface scratches etc. Does that mean increased surface wear at the lugs etc......maybe but I doubt too many people are putting tons of rounds down ultralight builds to notice. Rotational/cam surfaces on dissimilar metals are often an increased concern for galling.

That said all metal comparisons unless you are talking specific alloys with specific heat treats vary so widely in strength/hardness/etc. that they are huge generalizations.

If it was me I can't see any reason to use a Ti action these days, but if you absolutely need to spend the most $, and drop that last ounce it might be your jam. At least until they start making beryllium actions. Back in the 90's - 00's the mountain bike world played with Beryllium and Magnesium frames, neither stuck around long.

 

[308pirate]

I wonder if the proofing regulations are different re: USA vs. Europe?

I seem to recall reading that the USA’s regs on this matter were more lax, but that is probably my hazy brain or some unsubstantiated forum post.

There are no government firearm proof regulations in the USA. It's all voluntary.

 

[308pirate]

Titanium is fine if it has been made correctly. Actually better than fine, it is a superior option in just about every way but price. Lone Peak has a good one

LOLSTFU

 

[308pirate]

No clue how hard rifle actions are heat treated to......I'd guess pretty soft at least by knife blade standards, but you absolutely cannot get Ti heat treated as hard as steel. There's a reason no one makes knife blades from titanium unless they are looking for the anti-magnetic properties. For a long time Titanium has been used in general consumer products almost as a marketing gimmick in applications where it provides no real advantage but as an excuse to charge high prices or get the consumer to believe it's a "space age" product.

While Titanium is much harder to grind deeply than steel, it's oxidation layer is much softer, so it's much easier to have surface scratches etc. Does that mean increased surface wear at the lugs etc......maybe but I doubt too many people are putting tons of rounds down ultralight builds to notice. Rotational/cam surfaces on dissimilar metals are often an increased concern for galling.

That said all metal comparisons unless you are talking specific alloys with specific heat treats vary so widely in strength/hardness/etc. that they are huge generalizations.

If it was me I can't see any reason to use a Ti action these days, but if you absolutely need to spend the most $, and drop that last ounce it might be your jam. At least until they start making beryllium actions. Back in the 90's - 00's the mountain bike world played with Beryllium and Magnesium frames, neither stuck around long.

Hardness is meaningless without context. Tensile strength, ultimate yield strength, the ductility profile form the surface to the center of the cross section, and elongation at yield are far more important measurable in high pressure structural applications.

Knife metallurgy has almost nothing to do with rifle action and barrel metallurgy.

 

[Tokay444]

There are no government firearm proof regulations in the USA. It's all voluntary.

Mark Serbu would have a harder time trying to kill people if they weren't.

 

[Tokay444]

No clue how hard rifle actions are heat treated to......I'd guess pretty soft at least by knife blade standards, but you absolutely cannot get Ti heat treated as hard as steel. There's a reason no one makes knife blades from titanium unless they are looking for the anti-magnetic properties. For a long time Titanium has been used in general consumer products almost as a marketing gimmick in applications where it provides no real advantage but as an excuse to charge high prices or get the consumer to believe it's a "space age" product.

While Titanium is much harder to grind deeply than steel, it's oxidation layer is much softer, so it's much easier to have surface scratches etc. Does that mean increased surface wear at the lugs etc......maybe but I doubt too many people are putting tons of rounds down ultralight builds to notice. Rotational/cam surfaces on dissimilar metals are often an increased concern for galling.

That said all metal comparisons unless you are talking specific alloys with specific heat treats vary so widely in strength/hardness/etc. that they are huge generalizations.

If it was me I can't see any reason to use a Ti action these days, but if you absolutely need to spend the most $, and drop that last ounce it might be your jam. At least until they start making beryllium actions. Back in the 90's - 00's the mountain bike world played with Beryllium and Magnesium frames, neither stuck around long.

Lol. Beryllium is heavy and soft.

 

[308pirate]

Recommending a metal for rifle actions because it was used for bicycle frames?

I bet he thinks hitting the moon with a rocket is easy. Just point it at the moon and launch.....I mean it's right there.

Gotta love shithouse engineers.

 

[Tokay444]

I should rephrase. Beryllium on it's own it pretty light, but you can't use it on it's own for very much. It's traditionally an alloying element, to give alloys higher strength and heat resistance. Copper mostly, which is heavy and soft.

 

[308pirate]

I should rephrase. Beryllium on it's own it pretty light, but you can't use it on it's own for very much. It's traditionally an alloying element, to give alloys higher strength and heat resistance. Copper mostly, which is heavy and soft.

Well don't forget the bertrilium-zantitium majik alloy used on these masterpieces of optical engineering

 

[E. Bryant]

I should rephrase. Beryllium on it's own it pretty light, but you can't use it on it's own for very much. It's traditionally an alloying element, to give alloys higher strength and heat resistance. Copper mostly, which is heavy and soft.

Beryllium-aluminum MMC can perform extremely well in certain structural applications. It has similar tensile and shear strength properties to that of 7075 but is about 25% less dense. More importantly, it has a modulus (stiffness) about 3x that of aluminum and 2x of titanium, so it's used in structural application that require a very high natural frequency (high stiffness/mass ratio) such as mechanical components for aerospace optical systems. The CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion) is quite low and well-matched to the type of ceramics frequently used in packaging exotic semiconductors. It also doesn't stress corrode like 7075.

The downsides are toxicity of the oxide, and extremely high cost (about 100x that of 7075). Right now, Hodge Defense fans are groaning in anticipation.

 

[ToddM]

Lol. Beryllium is heavy and soft.

Exactly my point, using exotic metals in a rifle action is equally stupid for 99.9% of applications. Clearly I didn't attach enough obvious sarcasm for the hide.

 

[carbonbased]

I want a 100% glass-smooth action made of glass.

Make it happen you filthy engineers. On the double.

 

[Tokay444]

I want a 100% glass-smooth action made of glass.

Make it happen you filthy engineers. On the double.

Well, you know it'll be rigid.

 

[jbuck88]

It would be 1 time.