Rifle Scopes SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">THESE ARE THE OLD PICS FROM JON A</span></span></span>

Still cool to look at and I'm sure the new reticles still look a lot like this. Going to be a badass scope for sure

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I figured some of you might like some pics. Here you go:
</div></div>

It's the same overall length as the 1-4. Notable differences are the eyepiece is slightly longer and the turret housing is larger and farther forward.

It is a couple ounces heavier but not too bad at 22 oz.

The covered turrets cover "real exposed" turrets so there's no need to keep them covered if you don't want too:

So if you want exposed turrets, just toss the covers, if you want them covered keep them covered. There's about 40 Mils of total elevation so it should reach as far as anything you'd put a 6X scope on without a sloped mount.


Circle:

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here's a couple 10yd comparisons:</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the sake of comparison, here's what a Leupold CQ/T 1-3X circle dot looks on the same target:</div></div>

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here are some pics from the range.

<span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">The day I took all these pics was really dark, gloomy and rainy so all the pics look like crap--please realize that was due to the light conditions, not the optical quality of the scopes:</span></span>

Those targets at 300 are 8" grey bulls with 2" white centers.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Circle: 100 yards</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">300 yards </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For comparison, here are pics from the 1-4HD SS and the 1-3 CQ/T at 300:</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again I apologize for the lousy pics, all the scopes looked much better than that in real life.

In actual use, at 300 yds I found there was naturally a pretty big difference between the 1-3 CQ/T and the 1-4 SS, bigger than I would have thought. But there is yet another really big step up from the 1-4 to the 1-6's. That's enough more magnification to make a real difference in how easy it is to use. I haven't had them beyond 300 yet, but with that much difference at 300 there's no doubt the 1-6X is a much better tool for longer distances.

Optics-wise, the 1-6X24HD's are very good. At 1X they almost as good as the 1-4X as far as eye placement, "looking through an empty tube effect," etc. Though I didn't have them handy for a side by side from memory I'd say they're as good as the 1-4 S&B shortdot and better than the 1-4 NF I used to have in that respect, but the 1-4 SS does hold a slight edge.

I didn't have any other 1-6's to compare optics on 6X, but when set to 4X and compared with the 1-4 SS the glass is definitely better in the 1-6X at that power and everybody knows how good the 1-4HD's glass is. I'll have to wait until I get my hands on some other 1-6X's to see how they compare there.
</div></div>

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I didn't have any other 1-6's to compare optics on 6X, but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">when set to 4X and compared with the 1-4 SS the glass is definitely better in the 1-6X at that power and everybody knows how good the 1-4HD's glass is. </span></span> I'll have to wait until I get my hands on some other 1-6X's to see how they compare there.
</div></div>

All of that sounds good too.

 

[Jon A]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I'm sorry guys, I should have been following this thread better but getting through all the bitching isn't the best use of my time.

Anyway, you will all like the reticle. The big changes are the big posts outside the circle are gone so the circle is now floating (like the Leupold circle dot above). The circle is so big and bold those posts just aren't needed, even with the illumination off as the circle provides that function. This gives it a much cleaner view on 1X.

Also, there's a center dot in the center portion similar to some IOR's. This makes shooting tiny groups or small targets at long range when you dial much easier.

If you liked the reticle before, you'll like it even better now.

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Damn, so it got better. Good stuff.

Thanks Jon

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Getting rid of those heavy bars was a good move in my opinion.

 

[-=boone=-]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry guys, I should have been following this thread better but getting through all the bitching isn't the best use of my time.

Anyway, you will all like the reticle. The big changes are the big posts outside the circle are gone so the circle is now floating (like the Leupold circle dot above). The circle is so big and bold those posts just aren't needed, even with the illumination off as the circle provides that function. This gives it a much cleaner view on 1X.

Also, there's a center dot in the center portion similar to some IOR's. This makes shooting tiny groups or small targets at long range when you dial much easier.

If you liked the reticle before, you'll like it even better now. </div></div>

Thanks Jon, that's what I wanted to hear. Now I'll order one.

 

[gasdoc09]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny part of this, S&B announced the 3-20x took pre orders from dealers and then took over 2 years to deliver.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plenty of people have ordered S&B 1-8xs and haven't gotten them. None have shipped in almost 3 yrs.</div></div>

I plopped down a deposit for a S&B 1-8 the week I joined this forum.

There are risks to pre-orders ...

Life goes on. The only waits that really piss me off are ATF stamp waits, because that delay is purely political bullshit.

I've been very happy with my SWFA products and I'm sure the 1-6 will be no different.

All along SWFA's response has been "it'll ship when it's done" and "if you want a refund, OK" ... I was satisfied. Some of you guys just need to chill the fuck out.

 

[dogman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

We should have known the 1-6's were coming when Jon A put his 1-4 up for sale

 

[Kiba]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I've been avoiding this trainwreck of a thread for months while patiently waiting for my 1-6 but since questions were asked about the new reticle...

Reticle details:

http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-reticle-substensions_topic32312.html

 

[Sandbogg]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

That looks great! Thank you Kiba.

*Kind of funny how one person dissappears and the thread becomes positive, productive and good people start posting. 107 negative whiny bitchy childish posts from one person is enough! ( 63% of his total post count!)

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Yeah that does look good. Not sure if that's the original reticle or not but good to see.

Thanks man

 

[catalyst]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

If that is what they changed on the reticle, I'll be thrilled, as well.

Honestly, I'll just be happy when my scope is here, and hopefully I'll have it in time for this year's 3 gun season.

I have my gripes, but at this point, I just want my scope. I probably will never participate in another pre-order with SWFA again, though...

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

They stated that they would ship without the turret covers to begin with. When you lucky few start getting these in hand, can you confirm that they ship with the small thread protectors or not? In my case, I plan to just run the small thread protectors with the tactical turrets exposed anyway. Thanks in advance.

 

[SWFA]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got an update from SWFA.......

It was to let me know they had 31 and 33 round KCI knock-off Glock mags in stock for 39.99 and 49.99 at very respectable 100% MARK UP over normal retail of $19.99.

Glad to see they are taking care of the shooting community............. </div></div>

We have never offered these mags for sale, had none in inventory and have never even seen one. We were contacted by a distributor who offered us a large pile of these mags at a substantially higher price than they were six months ago, we researched what they were selling for retail at today’s prices and considered it a deal. We did the mass mail and sold them all in a few hours, we contacted the company and bought all they had left.

Did we make a ton of money? NO. Did we offer the firearms community a good deal? Yes.

Simple economics at play here. When demand exceeds supply, prices go up. Judging by how many other dealers bought them from us and how many people were buying 10 or more, I would think they are reselling them.

We sold out of all of our P-Mags and Surefire mags at the same prices they were in Jan. 2012, we have not raised our prices on them and are filling back orders as more supply comes in. People are obviously buying them from us and reselling them but we will not raise our price on them until we have to pay more for them.

The fact the we have not participated in any gouging has been widely recognized and appreciated by most.

So before you start making accusations in regards to our business practices you better know the facts.

 

[SWFA]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swamp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WACADOO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just thought I would let you whining Jabroni's know that Chis Farris just posted on the 1-6 thread on optics talk that they would be shipping tomorrow.
Turret covers will be shipped at a later date. </div></div>

I will only believe it when someone posts their own pics here within about 5 days max. Otherwise another big lie.

I suppose we are also supposed to believe that turret covers are a long lead time type of item. I'll happily accept and use my 1-6 without them but it's pretty chintzy to ship the products incomplete.

The drama really doesn't even seem to diminish. </div></div>

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I can guess what your comment would have been if I said, "scopes came in but caps did not, so we are holding them until caps arrive."

 

[redirt78]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Brady & everyone else behind the scenes at SWFA,

most (almost all) of us do not feel the same way or agree with a lot of what's been posted in here lately and we DO appreciate what you did and do for us. Thank you, looking forward to my first SS and doubt it will be the last.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Brady,

Just point and I will ban that troublemaker...

 

[Quinc]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hotbrass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hotbrass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a picture of the new reticle: </div></div>

You A-hole! I was waiting for the picture to load.

</div></div>

Dont get mad at me. I have given you more than SWFA.

Your welcome. </div></div>

LOL good point!

 

[Quinc]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Damn I just sold my 458 Socom that I was going to put this scope on!

 

[clj94104]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

SWFA has been a great company for me to deal with personally. Seeing the bashing is actually kind of pissing me off.

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I hope SWFA doesn't get too discouraged with the vocal minority. I know it's tough for my wife and I in our business sometimes. Just wanted to be sure they knew that more than just the negative gets read by us lurkers...

 

[SWFA]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sandbogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That looks great! Thank you Kiba.

*Kind of funny how one person disappears and the thread becomes positive, productive and good people start posting. 107 negative whiny bitchy childish posts from one person is enough! ( 63% of his total post count!)

</div></div>

I wish Swamp2 would tell me his name and zip or e-mail address so that we can determine if he even has an order with us.

As far as our recent absence from here, we pulled back here when the attacks got personal. We are honest people and flat out being called liars and cheats did not sit well.

Sniper’s Hide allows us to keep our finger on the pulse in regards to what our customer base wants and needs. We accept the good with the bad especially when the bad is self induced.

We don’t plan on leaving Sniper’s Hide and in fact plan on continuing with the “group buys” as long as Frank will allow us to. The 5-20x pre-buy/group-buy went pretty smooth in regards to hitting the projected dates so we followed a similar game plan with the 1-6x but the wheels fell off and it crashed and burned. For that we apologize and we promise to never repeat the processes that led to this epic fail. The next “group buy” will not be presented until product is on Texas soil. In fact the next addition to the SS line has already passed prototype status, pre-production model testing and is currently in full blown production.

We are just as upset and disappointed (maybe more) than ya’ll are and we offer our most sincere apology for the extended delay. We don’t want to cause any inconveniences to anyone and the offer to cancel and return the used portion for full refund is still open. We never charge our customers if products are on back order so you still won’t be charged until it ships.

This scope was a long time in the works and the finished product is beautiful in every way. We are shipping them as fast as we can and more are coming in waves.

Other good news is that we will start construction of our new facility next week. Our new building will sit on 30 acres and will be approximately 10x larger than our existing building, which means more space to hire more help so that we can be more productive and more efficient in all aspects including new product planning, production and customer service.

I would like to let ya’ll know that we receive many calls, e-mails and PM’s from very kind and understanding customers that we would like to publically thank. I know that a few negative, repetitive bad apples can make it appear that many people are being negative but in all actuality the majority has been understanding and polite and we appreciate the positivity more than you know.

Thanks guys and stay tuned for more updates, more new products and more Sniper’s Hide participation by SWFA.

Sincerely,
Chris Farris
S.W.F.A., Inc.
Type 7 FFL / Class 2 SOT
420 Century Way #100 - Red Oak, Texas 75154
O: 972.617.7056 - F: 972.617.1647
www.swfa.com
[email protected]

 

[verdugo60]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Great to hear Chris, thanks for that detailed response. As I said a few days ago, I think you guys make great stuff and especially with group buys, it is an awesome value. I think that is a solid plan to start GB's with the finished product on US soil FWIW. Excited to do business with you in the future and see what other great stuff you come up with!

 

[Mactrev]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Thanks Chris !! Looking forward to my 1-6x & I'm sure SWFA is putting out one hell of a scope !!

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.... In fact the next addition to the SS line has already passed prototype status, pre-production model testing and is currently in full blown production.

</div></div>

OH NO YOU DIDN!!!! LOL You bad bad boy. Now I get to sit here and dream about the possibilities.

I wonder if anyone else caught this little morsel.

 

[33shooter]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Very nice to have you guys here. I look forward to seeing the 1-6x in person. I am guilty of complaining as are others. But after the last message I take my complaints back. Glad SWFA is here to stay.

 

[GoVandals]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 33shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice to have you guys here. I look forward to seeing the 1-6x in person. I am guilty of complaining as are others. But after the last message I take my complaints back. Glad SWFA is here to stay. </div></div>

+1

 

[NoFail]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Thank You Chris!!!

I want to sincerely apologize to you in public. So I apologize to you and yours for loosing my cool recently. I can't tell you how much I regret myself on the last 3 pages or so here.

I so very much appreciate the effort your organization has put forth in order insure the quality of the new SS 1-6 HD is absolutely on par with your expectations. I have not seen it so how do I know? I just have no doubts this is how the new scope will be because you have my trust in this, always did in that regard. And I love my SS 12x42!!

I am so happy you guys have not bailed on us here. Why did I think you would? I dunno.... I guess I wouldn't blame you.

Thank You, Sir,

Sinserely,

Order # 188199

P.S. if that new one you're working on is something like a higher power version of the 1-6 you can definately count me in.

 

[rlb223]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Anyone else hoping the new addition is a reticle based spotting scope? Hint, hint.

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Wow... reticle based spotting scope would be so awesome.

 

[azimutha]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I'd most like to see a 3-12/15 version of the SS 5-20. It would be nice to have a bomber alternative to S&B, etc. for under $1400.

 

[al22300]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd most like to see a 3-12/15 version of the SS 5-20. It would be nice to have a bomber alternative to S&B, etc. for under $1400. </div></div>


+1......Ive been waiting for a more compact scope with a side focus. There is a hole in the market IMO and I happen to know quite a few other shooters who feel the same. If the scope would equal the quality of my SS 5-20 I would buy a few.

Wish List:
3-12/15x42
Low profile turrets (no taller than the 5-20)
Side focus (would be a bonus if parallax adjusted to well under 50yrds)
Mil-Quad reticle works for me
Another bonus ZERO STOP
Illumination (I would be ok without.... but sure would be nice)

 

[azimutha]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al22300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd most like to see a 3-12/15 version of the SS 5-20. It would be nice to have a bomber alternative to S&B, etc. for under $1400. </div></div>


+1......Ive been waiting for a more compact scope with a side focus. There is a hole in the market IMO and I happen to know quite a few other shooters who feel the same. If the scope would equal the quality of my SS 5-20 I would buy a few.

Wish List:
3-12/15x42
Low profile turrets (no taller than the 5-20)
Side focus (would be a bonus if parallax adjusted to well under 50yrds)
Mil-Quad reticle works for me
Another bonus ZERO STOP
Illumination (I would be ok without.... but sure would be nice)

</div></div>
That pretty much sums up my spec wish list too. I'd be okay w/o zero stop as long as I know where I'm at. Illumination is optional for me. Keeping the objective down to 42 would probably help with weight and length. Right now, I'm otherwise considering the new FFP version of the Vortex 2.5-10. With the 32mm objective it's comparable to the NF compact NXS...just .8" longer. I never missed FFP in my NF with a max magnification of 10X, but still nice. Mostly, I just want a solid, repeatable mil/mil scope good out to 600 yards.

 

[catalyst]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I really don't think it'd be fair to ban Swamp2 over him voicing his feelings on the promo buy - which is the entire point of this thread - good or bad, if he is a customer, he earned his right to have a voice, so long as it remains civil.

SWFA/Chris, we appreciate the updates from SWFA as we sail past the originally projected ship dates. One of my main gripes has been the lack of communication - not that we got bad news about retooling or delays.

A simple bi-monthly post of "Hey guys, no news. still waiting for arrival of units from the builder" goes a LONG way. It doesn't have to even answer questions, or address attackers.

For me personally, I know I was a bit mad at getting charged the full price on the 5-20 for my combo. That is largely my only gripe, and I've been bitching about it since it happened. lol. For me, that charge just makes the wait that much longer, because I feel like I've already paid for part of the 1-6 and my $ is in limbo during the wait. Not a big deal, but it just highlights my desire for updates.

When people have my $, I like to be in the know. I like to know what's going on with my stocks, my 401k, and when SWFA has some of my $, I like to know what's going on with my scope.

I hope that helps you sort of see the situation through my eyes?

I know as a large vendor, your company can't really be expected to provide detailed updates to every customer, because that would be a substantial time sink and a waste of $.

However, with as much as it sounds like people in this group buy are calling in and tying up the time of your staff, it would be beneficial to keep an "official" thread or page going with monthly updates (and bi-monthly in the event of problems as ppl need more communication when problems arise) updates for all customers of that pre-order.

I think doing something like that in the future will save your staff a ton of time and let them get back to selling and providing excellent customer service instead of answering the same question repeatedly.

If people decide that your update sucks and they get negative and slam you - so be it, but at least they'll be in the know. Your negative customers will go away and most of the time people can sift through the crap comments from bad customers, anyhow. Everyone else out there with half a brain would simply see that SWFA is providing constant updates through the entire pre-order partnership.

After all, this really is a partnership. We're helping you cut costs and minimize risk on a volume purchase of high dollar scopes. So keep us in the loop, partner.

On a more serious note - I hope the scope is as great as we're all hoping it is. Pictures are always welcomed.

 

[dogman]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't think it'd be fair to ban Swamp2 over him voicing his feelings on the promo buy - which is the entire point of this thread - good or bad, if he is a customer, he earned his right to have a voice, so long as it remains civil.</div></div>

Posting in this thread over 100 times is not voicing his feelings - it is demonstrating mental health issues.

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catalyst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really don't think it'd be fair to ban Swamp2 over him voicing his feelings on the promo buy - which is the entire point of this thread - good or bad, if he is a customer, he earned his right to have a voice, so long as it remains civil.

SWFA/Chris, we appreciate the updates from SWFA as we sail past the originally projected ship dates. One of my main gripes has been the lack of communication - not that we got bad news about retooling or delays.

A simple bi-monthly post of "Hey guys, no news. still waiting for arrival of units from the builder" goes a LONG way. It doesn't have to even answer questions, or address attackers.

For me personally, I know I was a bit mad at getting charged the full price on the 5-20 for my combo. That is largely my only gripe, and I've been bitching about it since it happened. lol. For me, that charge just makes the wait that much longer, because I feel like I've already paid for part of the 1-6 and my $ is in limbo during the wait. Not a big deal, but it just highlights my desire for updates.

When people have my $, I like to be in the know. I like to know what's going on with my stocks, my 401k, and when SWFA has some of my $, I like to know what's going on with my scope.

I hope that helps you sort of see the situation through my eyes?

I know as a large vendor, your company can't really be expected to provide detailed updates to every customer, because that would be a substantial time sink and a waste of $.

However, with as much as it sounds like people in this group buy are calling in and tying up the time of your staff, it would be beneficial to keep an "official" thread or page going with monthly updates (and bi-monthly in the event of problems as ppl need more communication when problems arise) updates for all customers of that pre-order.

I think doing something like that in the future will save your staff a ton of time and let them get back to selling and providing excellent customer service instead of answering the same question repeatedly.

If people decide that your update sucks and they get negative and slam you - so be it, but at least they'll be in the know. Your negative customers will go away and most of the time people can sift through the crap comments from bad customers, anyhow. Everyone else out there with half a brain would simply see that SWFA is providing constant updates through the entire pre-order partnership.

After all, this really is a partnership. We're helping you cut costs and minimize risk on a volume purchase of high dollar scopes. So keep us in the loop, partner.

On a more serious note - I hope the scope is as great as we're all hoping it is. Pictures are always welcomed.

</div></div>

All a moot point. Chris clearly said he wont be doing one of these again. Next time, it'll be after they have the scopes in hand. I'm happy they still plan to do it at all.

On another note, getting mad at paying full price for the 5-20x is precisely what we mean by, "entitlement". What makes you think you are "entitled" to that? Have you thought about what it means to them?

Imagine from the standpoint of you as the business owner, by giving you a fat discount on the 5-20x that <span style="font-weight: bold">you never had originally intended to send ahead of time</span>, you basically undercut the value of your own scope. It's just bad business.

If you don't like their intelligent business choice, then send the scope back, get your FULL refund and go spend your money elsewhere. Good luck finding a scope the quality of the SS 5-20 for $1300 though.

 

[catalyst]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On another note, getting mad at paying full price for the 5-20x is precisely what we mean by, "entitlement". What makes you think you are "entitled" to that? Have you thought about what it means to them?

Imagine from the standpoint of you as the business owner, by giving you a fat discount on the 5-20x that <span style="font-weight: bold">you never had originally intended to send ahead of time</span>, you basically undercut the value of your own scope. It's just bad business.
</div></div>

That would be true if there weren't also a promo on the 5-20 as well. I'd have shipped the 5-20's at the promo price, with the remainder of the balance due on the shipment of the 1-6. That's all. Like I said, it isn't a HUGE problem, but its just something I'd have done differently. That's all. As the business owner, I also wouldn't have sent the 5-20 ahead of time. I'd have just send the whole order all at once and not have to cover additional costs of shipping, and then extra costs on shipping the reticle cards, etc.

As we get through these group buys, they can fine tune the experience. Like I said in my prior post - these buys are a great opportunity for costs savings on both sides and it is a mutually beneficial partnership.

Even with myself or Swamp2 complaining from time to time, in the end of the day, it all boils down to $. It is a business.

 

[NaHa]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

All of you SWFA rimmers remind me of the apologists who defended Jeff Hicks, aka "Celt" back in the day for the customer service issues his company was mired in. Anybody who dared to question Celt was flamed and scorned. Turn out that Jeff Hicks ("Celt") was ripping people off.

As to SWFA's offer, they sure as hell didn't make it to do anything but make profit. They do "favors" for the marketplace because it makes them money. To whine that SWFA might not make such an offer again is weak-minded BS.

Group buys are for suckers. And the groups of suckers who fall for such pitches don't like that individual participants start questioning the herd mentality. So you insult them. I see/hear this sort of stuff all the time. It's call the LIBERAL agenda. Shame on you.

 

[hk dave]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

What he was doing wasn't questioning the herd mentality... what he was doing is often referred to as "bitching". There is a significant difference.

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I've PMd with SWFA to explain I am indeed a customer (yes waiting on a 1-6), have been a customer multiple times in the past and likely will continue to be a customer. In short, both they and I have learned from this situation. They obviously took a lot of blame/credit in their recent long reply. Kudos to them for that post, along with the tremendous kudos I keep giving them for excellent products at excellent prices. Those that claimed I have single handedly ruined your access to SWFA specials can surely eat a bit of crow at this point. We all want their products and they want our money... it's simple and has been pointed out time and time here again.

When the immature name calling continues I will post and defend myself and point out the huge hypocrisy of most of those doing so. I've been nothing but respectful, provided reasons for my complaints and engaged politely in discussion and debtat with those who have challenged my opinions in a decent manner. A large number of folks with differing opinions (the majority in fact) haven't had anywhere close to this level of respect and maturity.

Thank you to those offering logical, even keeled support to me amidst the schoolyard bullies and immature name callers. Those folks are breaking forum rules as well and should be subject to banning. Those who are attacking low post count members are also breaking forum rules. It absolutely hasn't been just a "couple of trouble makers" along for the ride agreeing with much of what I have said. The issue is clearly divisive.

At this point we all need to agree to disagree and get back to the excitement for our products coming now and coming soon. I very much hope that the wait is short and tolerable for those not lucky enough to get in on this first batch of the 1-6.

I was hoping by not posting for a while we could cool off/move on, but again I will defend against name calling and personal attacks.

 

[Jon A]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MP15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you lucky few start getting these in hand, can you confirm that they ship with the small thread protectors or not?</div></div>
My production scope showed up today. It has the protectors installed on it.

The scope looks excellent in every other way. A scope of this quality going for the price it did in the deal is insane if you ask me. Well worth the wait.

 

[swamp2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What he was doing wasn't questioning the herd mentality... what he was doing is often referred to as "bitching". There is a significant difference. </div></div>

I have offered a plethora of posts doing just this, questioning the herd mentality, primarily around the misbelief that these deals are all for our benefit.

 

[azimutha]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NaHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All...you. </div></div>
Between those two words, probably one of the worst posts I've ever read on any forum. Can we just focus on the scopes now?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swamp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've PMd with SWFA to explain I am indeed a customer (yes waiting on a 1-6), have been a customer multiple times in the past and likely will continue to be a customer. In short, both they and I have learned from this situation. They obviously took a lot of blame/credit in their recent long reply. Kudos to them for that post, along with the tremendous kudos I keep giving them for excellent products at excellent prices. Those that claimed I have single handedly ruined your access to SWFA specials can surely eat a bit of crow at this point. We all want their products and they want our money... it's simple and has been pointed out time and time here again.

When the immature name calling continues I will post and defend myself and point out the huge hypocrisy of most of those doing so. I've been nothing but respectful, provided reasons for my complaints and engaged politely in discussion and debtat with those who have challenged my opinions in a decent manner. A large number of folks with differing opinions (the majority in fact) haven't had anywhere close to this level of respect and maturity.

Thank you to those offering logical, even keeled support to me amidst the schoolyard bullies and immature name callers. Those folks are breaking forum rules as well and should be subject to banning. Those who are attacking low post count members are also breaking forum rules. It absolutely hasn't been just a "couple of trouble makers" along for the ride agreeing with much of what I have said. The issue is clearly divisive.

At this point we all need to agree to disagree and get back to the excitement for our products coming now and coming soon. I very much hope that the wait is short and tolerable for those not lucky enough to get in on this first batch of the 1-6.

I was hoping by not posting for a while we could cool off/move on, but again I will defend against name calling and personal attacks.</div></div>

I will tell you right now, you'll never be welcome to participate in a group buy again, at least not publicly.

I see you post in any group buy on this site and I will permanently ban you, you're kind is exactly what is wrong with group buys. You started way to soon and were at it way too often, the fact SWFA stepped up had nothing to do with you and was in fact, in spite of you. That speaks more than your post acting like you did them and this board a favor... on a personal level I think I should just get it over with and ban you now, permanently as I see nothing that benefits this community by keeping you around.

You might just be the warning that is needed for people get to point.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: swamp2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've PMd with SWFA to explain I am indeed a customer (yes waiting on a 1-6), have been a customer multiple times in the past and likely will continue to be a customer. In short, both they and I have learned from this situation. They obviously took a lot of blame/credit in their recent long reply. Kudos to them for that post, along with the tremendous kudos I keep giving them for excellent products at excellent prices. Those that claimed I have single handedly ruined your access to SWFA specials can surely eat a bit of crow at this point. We all want their products and they want our money... it's simple and has been pointed out time and time here again.

When the immature name calling continues I will post and defend myself and point out the huge hypocrisy of most of those doing so. I've been nothing but respectful, provided reasons for my complaints and engaged politely in discussion and debtat with those who have challenged my opinions in a decent manner. A large number of folks with differing opinions (the majority in fact) haven't had anywhere close to this level of respect and maturity.

Thank you to those offering logical, even keeled support to me amidst the schoolyard bullies and immature name callers. Those folks are breaking forum rules as well and should be subject to banning. Those who are attacking low post count members are also breaking forum rules. It absolutely hasn't been just a "couple of trouble makers" along for the ride agreeing with much of what I have said. The issue is clearly divisive.

At this point we all need to agree to disagree and get back to the excitement for our products coming now and coming soon. I very much hope that the wait is short and tolerable for those not lucky enough to get in on this first batch of the 1-6.

I was hoping by not posting for a while we could cool off/move on, but again I will defend against name calling and personal attacks.</div></div>

I will tell you right now, you'll never be welcome to participate in a group buy again, at least not publicly.

I see you post in any group buy on this site and I will permanently ban you, you're kind is exactly what is wrong with group buys. You started way to soon and were at it way too often, the fact SWFA stepped up had nothing to do with you and was in fact, in spite of you. That speaks more than your post acting like you did them and this board a favor... on a personal level I think I should just get it over with and ban you now, permanently as I see nothing that benefits this community by keeping you around.

You might just be the warning that is needed for people get to point.
</div></div>
Not that you need confirmation from me, but +1.

 

[Quinc]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NaHa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All of you SWFA rimmers remind me of the apologists who defended Jeff Hicks, aka "Celt" back in the day for the customer service issues his company was mired in. Anybody who dared to question Celt was flamed and scorned. Turn out that Jeff Hicks ("Celt") was ripping people off.

As to SWFA's offer, they sure as hell didn't make it to do anything but make profit. They do "favors" for the marketplace because it makes them money. To whine that SWFA might not make such an offer again is weak-minded BS.

Group buys are for suckers. And the groups of suckers who fall for such pitches don't like that individual participants start questioning the herd mentality. So you insult them. I see/hear this sort of stuff all the time. It's call the LIBERAL a
genda. Shame on you. </div></div>

This is my first group buy with snipershide but I have been in tons of other group buys and have never had any issues. Yes this one took longer than expected but the savings makes it worth it. Besides if you use a credit card you could always dispute it if you did get ripped off. Best case scenario you get a great deal. Worse case is a 5 minute phone call to your cc company. But in this case we haven't been charged yet. So your only loss is the time you could have spent looking at funny cat pictures.

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Thanks for answering the question Jon A. As far as I'm concerned if it comes with the thread protectors, it will be coming complete then. I'd have just put the big covers aside anyway.

 

[NoFail]

Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jon A</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MP15</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you lucky few start getting these in hand, can you confirm that they ship with the small thread protectors or not?</div></div>
My production scope showed up today. It has the protectors installed on it.

The scope looks excellent in every other way. A scope of this quality going for the price it did in the deal is insane if you ask me. Well worth the wait. </div></div>

I know you have a camera