Terminus Actions

[kdnn22]

Thank you gents for your inputs.

Littlepod your comments on why you chose the Zeus fit my thinking almost exactly. As I must say I am very interested in a quick barrel swap option that can be had in the Zeus. I also like the 60 degree bolt throw, the threaded trigger pins and other improvements are a nice bonus.

 

[Kanati]

Thank you gents for your inputs.

Littlepod your comments on why you chose the Zeus fit my thinking almost exactly. As I must say I am very interested in a quick barrel swap option that can be had in the Zeus. I also like the 60 degree bolt throw, the threaded trigger pins and other improvements are a nice bonus.

You will not be disappointed with any Terminus product, let alone the Zeus action. That said, I recommend against using AW mags, just get you some ARC 10 rounders w/LRI followers and you'll be good!

 

[Hawk in WY]

You will not be disappointed with any Terminus product, let alone the Zeus action. That said, I recommend against using AW mags, just get you some ARC 10 rounders w/LRI followers and you'll be good!

I thought one of the benefits of the three lug is they ran the AW mags successfully.

Is that not the case?

 

[Kanati]

I thought one of the benefits of the three lug is they ran the AW mags successfully.

Is that not the case?

There's just too many factors (bottom metal, chassis, etc.) to answer that question with a sweeping statement. I talked with Joel and he highly recommends the ARC 10 rd mag with LRI followers, says they run smooth as a knife on warm butter. They are only 10mm longer than the AW mag, still double-stack center fed, just cut in AI specs. If Joel says it I'm going to follow his recommendation. Hope this helps.

 

[littlepod]

There's just too many factors (bottom metal, chassis, etc.) to answer that question with a sweeping statement. I talked with Joel and he highly recommends the ARC 10 rd mag with LRI followers, says they run smooth as a knife on warm butter. They are only 10mm longer than the AW mag, still double-stack center fed, just cut in AI specs. If Joel says it I'm going to follow his recommendation. Hope this helps.

I need to give some of these mags a try... where would I buy that combo set or is this a buy a mag buy the follower and assemble myself?

I have mine running AW mags really smoothly with 308. Not a single problem in over 200 rounds.

I can't get the AW mags to work with 6GT yet though.

 

[Kanati]

I need to give some of these mags a try... where would I buy that combo set or is this a buy a mag buy the follower and assemble myself?

I have mine running AW mags really smoothly with 308. Not a single problem in over 200 rounds.

I can't get the AW mags to work with 6GT yet though.

You can get them from Long Rifles Inc.

American Rifle Company 10-ROUND 7.62×51 (308 WIN) Detachable Magazine

Purposefully designed for use with cylindrical actions such as the Mausingfield and the Remington 700 type short actions, the ARC mag offers a compact 10-round alternative to the Accuracy International CS type magazines. 10-round ARC Mag is only 3/8” (10mm) longer the 10-round mag AI AW. Does...

www.longriflesinc.com

Scroll to the bottom of that page and you'll see the follower for them. Joel said they'll come assembled with the follower if ordered together.

Ordered mine on Fri. Gonna be selling my AW mags on the exchange here later today as matter of fact.

 

[Juggerxxx]

You can get them from Long Rifles Inc.

American Rifle Company 10-ROUND 7.62×51 (308 WIN) Detachable Magazine

Purposefully designed for use with cylindrical actions such as the Mausingfield and the Remington 700 type short actions, the ARC mag offers a compact 10-round alternative to the Accuracy International CS type magazines. 10-round ARC Mag is only 3/8” (10mm) longer the 10-round mag AI AW. Does...

www.longriflesinc.com

Scroll to the bottom of that page and you'll see the follower for them. Joel said they'll come assembled with the follower if ordered together.

Ordered mine on Fri. Gonna be selling my AW mags on the exchange here later today as matter of fact.

Thanks for the info. I will look into the followers if I have issues with the Zeus and the 6GT. Any idea if feeding is an issue with the extensions?

 

[Kanati]

Thanks for the info. I will look into the followers if I have issues with the Zeus and the 6GT. Any idea if feeding is an issue with the extensions?View attachment 7401153

Too easy. No idea, but I was thinking about getting one from Altus.

 

[808caliber]

Anyone running a kratos in BDL setup? Looking at the kratos lite in 300 prc bdl for a build next year. Mahalo

 

[Needaheart]

You will not be disappointed with any Terminus product, let alone the Zeus action. That said, I recommend against using AW mags, just get you some ARC 10 rounders w/LRI followers and you'll be good!

So the Vector has trouble with AICS mags and the Zeus has trouble with AW mags? Or just with 6GT+AW mag combo?

 

[littlepod]

So the Vector has trouble with AICS mags and the Zeus has trouble with AW mags? Or just with 6GT+AW mag combo?

I need to figure out how to tune the mag lips to get the 6GT + AW to work, I haven't given up yet.

 

[Kanati]

So the Vector has trouble with AICS mags and the Zeus has trouble with AW mags? Or just with 6GT+AW mag combo?

The Zeus will work optimally with AICS style mags. I'm sure there are people on this thread that have no issues with their AWs feeding because they have the right combination of bottom metal or chassis, but that unfortunately is not my case.

Joel is a big advocate of the ARC mags I mentioned above so I'm going to try them.

 

[Kanati]

I need to figure out how to tune the mag lips to get the 6GT + AW to work, I haven't given up yet.

That's what I've heard, the 6GT & AW combo is hard to get working smoothly.

 

[BootyLord]

I need to figure out how to tune the mag lips to get the 6GT + AW to work, I haven't given up yet.

Adjusting the feed lips is pretty simple I believe there’s even a YouTube video on it. I bought this tool after receiving a new AI mag that gave me feeding issues.

MPA Mag Feed Lip Adjustment Tool - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

This tool comes in handy when adjustments are needed to the feed lips of your metal AR15, AR15 or Bolt Action Box Magazines to improve feeding. If your feed lips get tweaked, if you drop your magazine or simply have feeding issues due to feed angle of your loaded cartridge, then use this tool to […]

masterpiecearms.com

 

[Lunchbox27]

So the Vector has trouble with AICS mags and the Zeus has trouble with AW mags? Or just with 6GT+AW mag combo?

Vector here. ARC mags run flawlessly in mine, as do AW mags. Granted, I am only running 6creed and 308 through them.

 

[littlepod]

Adjusting the feed lips is pretty simple I believe there’s even a YouTube video on it. I bought this tool after receiving a new AI mag that gave me feeding issues.

MPA Mag Feed Lip Adjustment Tool - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

This tool comes in handy when adjustments are needed to the feed lips of your metal AR15, AR15 or Bolt Action Box Magazines to improve feeding. If your feed lips get tweaked, if you drop your magazine or simply have feeding issues due to feed angle of your loaded cartridge, then use this tool to […]

masterpiecearms.com

Yep I have that tool. I got my 308s to feed right. The 6GT I think I need to do a bit differently and possibly change the follower spring to angle the round a bit better.

 

[Dooby]

I have issues with AW mags and 6GT, not reliable at all. Not sure how to tune it. AW mags with ~2.800" cartridges seem to work fine. I'm using Magpul 308 mags. works good most of the time. sometimes it won't pickup a round. also alotta play and if pushed up on the back of the mag, it will bind with the bolt.

 

[littlepod]

I have issues with AW mags and 6GT, not reliable at all. Not sure how to tune it. AW mags with ~2.800" cartridges seem to work fine. I'm using Magpul 308 mags. works good most of the time. sometimes it won't pickup a round. also alotta play and if pushed up on the back of the mag, it will bind with the bolt.

I ran my MDT AICS 10 & 12 round mags fine with the 6GT. The mag catch on my MDT ACC though needs to be changed if I want to run the MDT mags for the AW mags so that's why I wanted to standardize on 1 mag, and I like how easy it is to load AW mags.

 

[Dooby]

I ran my MDT AICS 10 & 12 round mags fine with the 6GT. The mag catch on my MDT ACC though needs to be changed if I want to run the MDT mags for the AW mags so that's why I wanted to standardize on 1 mag, and I like how easy it is to load AW mags.

I'm using a KRG W3 Chassis. Seems like folks with MDT, MPA chassis have less of an issue.

That said, I wish KRG would release a mag catch similar in design to the ARC Chassis. It squares up the magazine for less back/forth wobble causing bolt binding.

 

[littlepod]

I'm using a KRG W3 Chassis. Seems like folks with MDT, MPA chassis have less of an issue.

That said, I wish KRG would release a mag catch similar in design to the ARC Chassis. It squares up the magazine for less back/forth wobble causing bolt binding.

I only have an issue if I actually rest my rifle on my magazine. I haven't had issues otherwise. Also I guess MDT ACC has a nice barricade stop on their magwell so it's not like I'm ever pushing against my mag.

 

[DisplacedTexan]

FWIW, AW w/ HRD kits work flawlessly with BR cases. YMMV

AW Forever.

 

[Kanati]

FWIW, AW w/ HRD kits work flawlessly with BR cases. YMMV

AW Forever.

Wholly acronym! LOL. What is HRD, BR, YMMV?

 

[DisplacedTexan]

Wholly acronym! LOL. What is HRD, BR, YMMV?

HRD is a brand
BR (22BR, 6BR, 6BRX, 6 Dasher, etc.) Is a cartridge
YMMV is your mileage may vary.

Also, Google helps.

 

[Praeger]

https://hrd-gear.com/shop/ols/products/hrd-gear-6mm-magazine-spacer-kit

 

[Tokay444]

BR is bench rest.

 

[littlepod]

https://hrd-gear.com/shop/ols/products/hrd-gear-6mm-magazine-spacer-kit

View attachment 7402508

I heard someone trimmed the HRD kit to get 6GT to work well.

 

[Needaheart]

The Zeus will work optimally with AICS style mags. I'm sure there are people on this thread that have no issues with their AWs feeding because they have the right combination of bottom metal or chassis, but that unfortunately is not my case.

Joel is a big advocate of the ARC mags I mentioned above so I'm going to try them.

Thanks for the info. I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either AW or AICS....can’t have both work flawlessly. I’ll be looking out for the ARC mag reviews. I have a Vector that I have run on AWs without a problem. Haven’t tried AICS yet. Been thinking of getting a terminus more and more lately for another build.

 

[Kanati]

Thanks for the info. I guess you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Either AW or AICS....can’t have both work flawlessly. I’ll be looking out for the ARC mag reviews. I have a Vector that I have run on AWs without a problem. Haven’t tried AICS yet. Been thinking of getting a terminus more and more lately for another build.

Too easy man, I'll make sure to drop a quick review of the ARC mags once I get some time on the gun with them. Terminus is everything Curtis could have been, but refused to, you won't regret it.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I need to figure out how to tune the mag lips to get the 6GT + AW to work, I haven't given up yet.

Check your spring tension. I was having issues with GT in AWs with a Tempest, and it was because the springs had gotten weak from years of use. Stretching the springs slightly fixed the issue, so I ordered 5x new spring/follower combos from Mile High to replace the worn out ones.

 

[MuleyTime]

My new Zeus comp rifle should be up and running next week. Lots of good information in here about quick change non-issues. However, I can't find any posts where someone has tested the quick change feature (hand tight/set screws) reliability when hitting the barrel against barricades and other obstacles that get used in a PRS match.

Has anyone performed an "impact" test like that to see if the POI changes? My big question is.....being hand tight, are the set screws strong enough to keep the POI from changing if you hit the barrel on barricade and such?

 

[littlepod]

My new Zeus comp rifle should be up and running next week. Lots of good information in here about quick change non-issues. However, I can't find any posts where someone has tested the quick change feature (hand tight/set screws) reliability when hitting the barrel against barricades and other obstacles that get used in a PRS match.

Has anyone performed an "impact" test like that to see if the POI changes? My big question is.....being hand tight, are the set screws strong enough to keep the POI from changing if you hit the barrel on barricade and such?

It's not just set screws, it's like 2/3 of the usual threads that a barrel would be screwed into, and then instead of torquing it 65ft/lbs, the set screws keep it in place. An upward motion bang isn't going to loosen the screw. If you somehow got the barrel caught in a way that was going to torque it counter clockwise with a good amount of force, then sure I could see the set screws not working. I have never banged on anything that hard...

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

It's not just set screws, it's like 2/3 of the usual threads that a barrel would be screwed into, and then instead of torquing it 65ft/lbs, the set screws keep it in place. An upward motion bang isn't going to loosen the screw. If you somehow got the barrel caught in a way that was going to torque it counter clockwise with a good amount of force, then sure I could see the set screws not working. I have never banged on anything that hard...

You don't have to get the barrel to come loose to see a POI shift.

 

[Tokay444]

Many MANY impact tests have been done on hand tight barrels over the years, and none of them have ended positively.
Get an action wrench and barrel vise and torque to 80lb/ft.
If you really think you’ll ever need to change barrels AT the range, get a bracket for your barrel vise that interfaces with your trailer hitch. I’ve never changed a barrel anywhere but at home.

 

[MuleyTime]

Many MANY impact tests have been done on hand tight barrels over the years, and none of them have ended positively.
Get an action wrench and barrel vise and torque to 80lb/ft.
If you really think you’ll ever need to change barrels AT the range, get a bracket for your barrel vise that interfaces with your trailer hitch. I’ve never changed a barrel anywhere but at home.

Just an update....been putting initial rounds down range the last 2 days and I got to tell you, I don't think POI change is going to be an issue. I have only hand tightened the barrel and the set screws. I hand snap it to shoulder as hard as I can. I've also been intentionally bumping the barrel (some pretty hard) on the barricade as well and I have yet to notice any POI.

That being said, I may talk myself into torquing it anyway, but just wanted to give an update on my sliver of testing.

 

[littlepod]

Just an update....been putting initial rounds down range the last 2 days and I got to tell you, I don't think POI change is going to be an issue. I have only hand tightened the barrel and the set screws. I hand snap it to shoulder as hard as I can. I've also been intentionally bumping the barrel (some pretty hard) on the barricade as well and I have yet to notice any POI.

That being said, I may talk myself into torquing it anyway, but just wanted to give an update on my sliver of testing.

If you do torque it, you will need a new barrel. The headspace will be off.

 

[MuleyTime]

If you do torque it, you will need a new barrel. The headspace will be off.

Good point

I used a vice and gave it a REALLY GOOD SNAP. So, I didn't torque it, but it's on about as tight as you can get it without using an action and torque wrench.
So far, it's shooting awesome groups without a hiccup....this is a 6BRA using MDT BR Mags.

 

[Supersubes]

If you do torque it, you will need a new barrel. The headspace will be off.

Off? What does that mean?

 

[littlepod]

Off? What does that mean?

2 thousandths closer due to 60 ft/lbs of torque being applied.

The hand tight models have 2 thousandths less headspacing than the full torque barrels.

 

[Supersubes]

2 thousandths closer due to 60 ft/lbs of torque being applied.

The hand tight models have 2 thousandths less headspacing than the full torque barrels.

So if the window for go/no-go is .005 or there abouts, you should be fine then yes?

 

[MuleyTime]

Good point

I used a vice and gave it a REALLY GOOD SNAP. So, I didn't torque it, but it's on about as tight as you can get it without using an action and torque wrench.

2 thousandths closer due to 60 ft/lbs of torque being applied.

The hand tight models have 2 thousandths less headspacing than the full torque barrels.

So, as I sit here thinking about that....I don't believe that's enough to make a difference whether I tourque it or not. But my brain may not be working today.
2 Thousandths is less than what a lot of people are bumping shoulders after each firing. Using a vice, I hand snapped my barrel in pretty damn tight and it didn't seem to change my headspace one bit from just a normal hand snap. I measured the headspace before and after.

I feel I'm missing something in my theory though.....

 

[b6graham]

2 thousandths closer due to 60 ft/lbs of torque being applied.

The hand tight models have 2 thousandths less headspacing than the full torque barrels.

were not talking switching between barrels we're talking full torque value on a set screw model

either way shouldn't make a difference

 

[Supersubes]

So, as I sit here thinking about that....I don't believe that's enough to make a difference whether I tourque it or not. But my brain may not be working today.
2 Thousandths is less than what a lot of people are bumping shoulders after each firing. Using a vice, I hand snapped my barrel in pretty damn tight and it didn't seem to change my headspace one bit from just a normal hand snap. I measured the headspace before and after.

I feel I'm missing something in my theory though.....

Your reasoning is correct.

 

[SCGunner84]

I had my barrel work done for a full threaded Zeus action but ended up buying the quick change model Zeus. I was told by Joel and the guys at southern precision that I would be able to run this torqued with no issues.

 

[MuleyTime]

I had my barrel work done for a full threaded Zeus action but ended up buying the quick change model Zeus. I was told by Joel and the guys at southern precision that I would be able to run this torqued with no issues.

Mine is the opposite (barrel was done for quick change but might end up torquing), but that is basically the same deduction that I am coming up with as I continue to test. My gunsmith told me I would be able to go either route, but maybe he did something to allow me to do that????

Bottom line is I don't believe it's really going to make enough difference to matter.

 

[Supersubes]

Mine is the opposite (barrel was done for quick change but might end up torquing), but that is basically the same deduction that I am coming up with as I continue to test. My gunsmith told me I would be able to go either route, but maybe he did something to allow me to do that????

Bottom line is I don't believe it's really going to make enough difference to matter.

The only question is surface finish of the action face and the barrel shoulder. If the finish is good, when those two surfaces meet the headspace is not going to crush down two thousandths.

 

[littlepod]

Shrug - I don't know. I'm not very experienced in this, I just know when ordering my barrel they asked me if I was going to be hand tightening it with set screws, or full torquing it, and I said if there was a difference and they said they cut the headspacing 2 thousandths difference.

"
IF YOUR PLANING TO USE SET SCREWS PROVIDED BY THE ACTION MANUFACTURE, PLEASE SELECT “HAND TIGHT”

IF YOUR NOT PLANNING TO SECURE YOUR BARREL WITH THE PROVIDED SET SCREWS YOU MAY ALSO TORQUE YOUR BARREL UP TO 100 FOOT POUNDS, FOR THIS CHOOSE THE TORQUED OPTION BELOW

BARRELS ARE CUT TO ORDER, PLEASE ALLOW 6-8 WEEKS FOR SHIPPING

PRE FIT BARRELS ARE NON-REFUNDABLE, Orders Canceled after 24 hours will be charged a $200 Restocking fee.

Since headspace can change by up too .002″ we need to know if you plan on using the provided set screws, or torquing your barrel
"

 

[MuleyTime]

Shrug - I don't know. I'm not very experienced in this, I just know when ordering my barrel they asked me if I was going to be hand tightening it with set screws, or full torquing it, and I said if there was a difference and they said they cut the headspacing 2 thousandths difference.

"
IF YOUR PLANING TO USE SET SCREWS PROVIDED BY THE ACTION MANUFACTURE, PLEASE SELECT “HAND TIGHT”

IF YOUR NOT PLANNING TO SECURE YOUR BARREL WITH THE PROVIDED SET SCREWS YOU MAY ALSO TORQUE YOUR BARREL UP TO 100 FOOT POUNDS, FOR THIS CHOOSE THE TORQUED OPTION BELOW

BARRELS ARE CUT TO ORDER, PLEASE ALLOW 6-8 WEEKS FOR SHIPPING

PRE FIT BARRELS ARE NON-REFUNDABLE, Orders Canceled after 24 hours will be charged a $200 Restocking fee.

Since headspace can change by up too .002″ we need to know if you plan on using the provided set screws, or torquing your barrel
"

Me too. I went in thinking it was a black and white choice....no in-between. But now between what my gunsmith told me and my personal initial experience, I'm pretty sure it's minimal change in headspace. Worst case is that you work your brass a bit more than you want to....IF you choose to alternate hand vs torquing.

To Supersubes point, my surface finish must be great, cuz a tight snap yields a very tight fit and I can't see how torquing it would crush it down more than a thousandth or two.

 

[Supersubes]

Me too. I went in thinking it was a black and white choice....no in-between. But now between what my gunsmith told me and my personal initial experience, I'm pretty sure it's minimal change in headspace. Worst case is that you work your brass a bit more than you want to....IF you choose to alternate hand vs torquing.

To Supersubes point, my surface finish must be great, cuz a tight snap yields a very tight fit and I can't see how torquing it would crush it down more than a thousandth or two.

If it did crush down the headspace, you’d work your brass less from virgin, not more. Easy to test all this. Check headspace, torque barrel, and test headspace again.

 

[Gallente]

Did Terminus have any plan to make a long action with a quick-change barrel feature? Like Kratos with a set screw? Really interested in this configuration.

 

[AXMC]

I asked Joel that exact question a few weeks ago (I would love a clone of the Zeus in LA). His response was that he's had very few requests for it, so is focusing his attention elsewhere . However, he did share that he runs a Kratos with several calibers, just using an action wrench and torquing just over hand tight....he said it's still pretty fast and he's had excellent results.