Cant the rifle the other way and see if it corrects.
Thanks Red. Good suggestion. Simple. I like simple! Will give it a go. 4 Certain
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Cant the rifle the other way and see if it corrects.
Have you done a scope tracking test to make sure its not skewing to the right as you increase elevation?
Well worth it for peace of mind. I followed @lowlight 's video instruction on how to do this. Worked well and I now know what my scopes do up to 10 mil in elevation.
P.S. - oops, I see I'm late to the party and also that you hold over and do not dial up...so, never mind! haha
haha...yeah, like I saidThanks Baron23. I do not twist my knobs. Just set the zero and leave them alone. All my drop compensation is from the 1st Focal Plane Reticle.
I do not think 'tracking' applies if you do that... If it does I am certainly curious as to how. Thank you for your thoughts. 4Certain
The MPA marble ball level thing I find pretty worthless... both times I've had people shoot off to the right was based on the MPA level. Not that it's any scientific evidence, but just some conjecture.
Good evening Littlepod. What Bubble Level System do you like to use or Recommend? One on the scope? Or are there better eye catching options?
Thank you. 4Certain
Question re: Scope Adjustment or Attachment:
Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. I have a Vudoo Gen 1 in an MPA BA Chassis with a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 x 56 scope. My zero is at 50 yards. I can shoot and it stays on zero pretty well. But when I shoot at a distance the impact zone tends to move to the Right. Note attached my target today at 150 yards. (Shooting Lapua Midas +) (Holes at bottom of target, not from this session). It could be 'wind'. but I have seen it occur, like today, when there was little to no wind. Go back to 50 yards, right on. Go to 100 and it is to the right. As I try to figure that out, I only come up with two options.
1. The Scope Mounting has the scope not parallel/coterminous with the barrel. They 'point' in different directions. Or,
2. The scope is canted and not square with the barrel. So when I go up to 6.2 MOA to shoot 100 yards or 15.0 MOA to shoot 150 yards it is off because of cant.
What am I missing? What else could it be? I feel like I have looked hard at the upper two issues... Maybe not hard enough...
What would you suggest as a way to Trouble Shoot this? And make sure zero is zero on the vertical axis of the scope regardless of distance...
Thank you in advance for your help.
4Certain
Question re: Scope Adjustment or Attachment:
Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. I have a Vudoo Gen 1 in an MPA BA Chassis with a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 x 56 scope. My zero is at 50 yards. I can shoot and it stays on zero pretty well. But when I shoot at a distance the impact zone tends to move to the Right. Note attached my target today at 150 yards. (Shooting Lapua Midas +) (Holes at bottom of target, not from this session). It could be 'wind'. but I have seen it occur, like today, when there was little to no wind. Go back to 50 yards, right on. Go to 100 and it is to the right. As I try to figure that out, I only come up with two options.
1. The Scope Mounting has the scope not parallel/coterminous with the barrel. They 'point' in different directions. Or,
2. The scope is canted and not square with the barrel. So when I go up to 6.2 MOA to shoot 100 yards or 15.0 MOA to shoot 150 yards it is off because of cant.
What am I missing? What else could it be? I feel like I have looked hard at the upper two issues... Maybe not hard enough...
What would you suggest as a way to Trouble Shoot this? And make sure zero is zero on the vertical axis of the scope regardless of distance...
Thank you in advance for your help.
4Certain
Go back and shoot it again. It would have to be extremely canted to account for that much lateral movement. Also, our brains tend to keep the reticle pretty level while we shoot. So, even though the reticle was canted in relation to the rifle, you likely had the reticle fairly level naturally.
I think you’ll find it was a combination of several things still.
I agree with DThomas that you naturally hold the reticle pretty straight but he could have had the rifle pretty well canted, to get it nice and plumb,and not noticed
I never knew that. I always start with my rifle level and then plumb my reticle to the level rifle. My objective is to have everything lined up plumb. I usually find the reticle is a bit off from the scope turrets by a tiny bit
Good morning Guys. Thank you for your thoughts. I answered my query this morning. I had NOT set my scope properly. It was NOT square with the world. On this set up I used an old system from the past that worked fine with less magnification Second Plane scopes. That inside the house door jam was not far enough away... I set up this morning with a 55 yard Plumb Line. My Vertical Cross Hair was NOT vertical. That, I believe, explains my shooting to the right...
I had four different machinist levels on the chassis. Made sure the scope was aligned with the Plumb Line as I tightened the Top Scope Ring Screws. Then I readjusted my Burris On Scope Bubble Level. Gee was it off!! The little BB Ball Level on the MPA Chassis was pretty close. Checked all levels and plumb line again...
Now to go find a time to get back to the range and do some more shooting. But I believe this will have remedied the "Goes Right" situation. Yes, I need to account for wind. And a little can still move it a fair amount at distance. And I need to make sure my gun is level when firing. And I need to do my trigger control part... But all those things I can do.
I thank you all for thinking and posting. You were helpful. And I appreciate it.
Grateful. 4Certain...
And may we all pray for our Military and First Responders and our Country on this 9-11 Anniversary.
Stay Strong and Resolute USA. Stay with the Constitution. Live out High Moral Ideals...
Good afternoon Sniperhide friends. Well, I got quite an education this morning. The angle of my scope as it is mounted on the rifle and the cant of the rifle when sending a round make a Huge difference in lateral placement of the bullet. More than I had assumed.
I was set up well before dawn this am. Shooting my Gen 1 Vudoo in a MPA Competition Chassis. I was shooting off www.TargetShooting.com Rests Model 2400 and Mini 9. I had a good level 3" wide Front Rider Plate mounted to the ARCA Type rail on the forend of the Chassis. Conditions were essentially calm. A breath of a breeze later. But not much. Quartering from the left.
The thing I see is that any movement out of plumb has a significant impact on the lateral placement of the shot. As I played with the rifle, intentionally canting it, I could see where the bullet was going to go. All, or at least the vast majority, of my Error to the Right in my earlier post was due to rifle cant and or the scope mounted off normal with a built in cant to the right. This is especially true for those of us who use the marks on the Reticle as the means of selecting the proper hold over for a particular distance. (I would assume this would affect Knob "Twisters" as well, but that is above my pay grade. And not the method I use.)
My 100 yard shots were right on the centerline. There may have been a breath of wind later when I shot 200 yards. But the thing I clearly see is my Scope MUST be mounted properly with the Vertical Crosshair dead on Vertical. And my rifle needs to be held so the Vertical Crosshair is truly vertical as I break the shot. I "knew" this was true. What I saw today was almost 'shocking' to this old engineer/surveyor. I "knew it". Today I saw it. And it is a BIG lesson for me. My gun has to be level. And the Longer the Shot, the more critical it will be. (The pink inside most circle on the three targets is 1" Diameter.)
Thanks for your thoughts and ideas. 4Certain
Good afternoon SG. I ordered my Vudoo with a Timney Trigger. It worked fine, but was not what I was used to. I changed to a Bix'n Andy TacSport Pro 2 stage and love it. The gun worked both ways. At this point I would order either way, if they offer the trigger you want. The Vudoo is a great piece of equipment. The Vudoo guys have been very helpful in assisting me as needed.When you guys are ordering these, are you getting a trigger with it to get timed? Or will it work fine if I just put on a TT on at home? Thanks for any info!
Thanks for updating back on the thread! So I think BigJimFish and I checked it and it does look like about 4.x degrees to get that 1.5-2" shift at 150 yards. I know I listened to lowlight's video about how we can tell when we're canted, I'm curious how much 4 degrees is in practice. When I'm shooting targets that are not set level, like t-posts spiked into the ground canted, I wonder how much of my vestibular stuff tells me I'm canted and to what degree.
What happened to the MDT? Can you return the Manners?
Few things, 4 degrees is a huge amount of cant. You should be able to easily see this amount and know you’re not plumb.
“Mounted properly” isn’t the same for everyone. Some people will have level rifle/level optic. Some will have not level rifle/level optic. Just depends on the person and their setup.
Rifles are tools. We pay a lot of money for them. You should be able to drop them and beat them around without worry. Also, this is when bedding rifles shines. The zero doesn’t move much or at all when it takes a hit (that’s actually how you can to see if bedding a chassis will help.....beat on rifle and check zero shift).
Mr. David Tubbs says on his website that 1 Degree of Cant Equals 6" Lateral at 1000 yards. So 1 Degree of Cant at 100 yards is 0.6", at 150 yards 0.9". The group was about 2" right. So just over 2 degrees of cant.
When I saw the angle the scope was off on my Vudoo, I was surprised that the small amount of cant revealed by the plumb line resulted in a 2" error.
Makes me want to pay very close attention to keeping my Vertical Crosshair, vertical. 4Certain
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Also if you’re unable to resolve 2deg of cant with your eye and reticle, you need to re-evaluate your setup and how you perceive level/plumb.
Sir, Mr. Tubbs was discussing angles and proportions when he made the statement. Proportional Geometry applies to the optics of both. Both Oranges and Apples both have seeds. And the kernel of math does not change. Has nothing to do with the difference of Centerfire and Rimfire. And as I looked thorough the scope and did the checking I was indeed surprised that that small of cant made as big of a difference as it did. And I am sure I need to be more sensitive to scope cant. The increased need for appropriate sensitivity occurs in a number of critical areas.
Sir, Mr. Tubbs was discussing angles and proportions when he made the statement. Proportional Geometry applies to the optics of both. Both Oranges and Apples both have seeds. And the kernel of math does not change. Has nothing to do with the difference of Centerfire and Rimfire. And as I looked thorough the scope and did the checking I was indeed surprised that that small of cant made as big of a difference as it did. And I am sure I need to be more sensitive to scope cant. The increased need for appropriate sensitivity occurs in a number of critical areas.
Fine dummy. Keep spinning your gears and over analyzing shit to the nth degree. You’re going down the wrong path and attributing what was a combination of things as 2 degrees of cant.
The rest of us will worry about what matters and winning/placing well.
Fine dummy. Keep spinning your gears and over analyzing shit to the nth degree. You’re going down the wrong path and attributing what was a combination of things as 2 degrees of cant.
The rest of us will worry about what matters and winning/placing well.
Ok...we’ll I’ll try to get us back on topic.
anyone get their vudoo ina mpa matrix chassis?
I ordered mine through vudoo as a complete build but was told I only get one grip. Mpa says you get 2 grips and a thumb rest. Should I just order the barreled action and trigger and go direct through MPA for the chassis or do you suppose vudoo was mistaken and get back to me?
Ok...we’ll I’ll try to get us back on topic.
anyone get their vudoo ina mpa matrix chassis?
I ordered mine through vudoo as a complete build but was told I only get one grip. Mpa says you get 2 grips and a thumb rest. Should I just order the barreled action and trigger and go direct through MPA for the chassis or do you suppose vudoo was mistaken and get back to me?
Not yet!!!, ordered last of June.Anyone get their vudoo recently and care to share their order date? I’m starting to get excited.