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Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Good afternoon Iceman.
A friend who has shot much - much more Benchrest than I strongly suggested I give it a go. I purchased an A&D EJ-123 Scale (more than I wanted to spend) but it was the only one I found that would weigh to the 0.02 of a Grain. So far I have sorted both Eley Black Box and Lapua Midas+. The weight of the Midas+ is much MUCH more consistent than the Eley. But the sorted Eley shoots better in my gun. It seems that shooting "Like Weighted" ammo helps get rid of the Ammo Caused Fliers. I can still get Wind Fliers or Fliers due to not setting the rests correctly, or from poor rifle/trigger management. But at least it seems to slow down the Ammo fliers. I credit my last two scores to that 250-21x and 250-20x. See attached pics for my weighing results. The older pic shows the scale with some Eley boxes...
Enjoy the process.
4Certain
Not sure I understand Icman.
My first Vudoo repeater was an 18" barrel. At the time I thought that was long. I could not see why we needed more than 16". In looking at the Benchrest, the longest they offered at the time was a 22". Which is what I ordered. I shoot with a fellow that has a 28" or so (not a Vudoo). A fishing pole. But he shoots some good scores. For my part at this point, I think the 22" is good for me. I know after that point you supposedly start losing velocity. I do know the longer barrels help even out variances in the ammo. That is certainly a needed thing. Because it is not at all consistent from what I have seen. So far I am very pleased with the way my 22" Vudoo Shilen is working.
All the best.
4Certain
My first Vudoo repeater was an 18" barrel. At the time I thought that was long. I could not see why we needed more than 16". In looking at the Benchrest, the longest they offered at the time was a 22". Which is what I ordered. I shoot with a fellow that has a 28" or so (not a Vudoo). A fishing pole. But he shoots some good scores. For my part at this point, I think the 22" is good for me. I know after that point you supposedly start losing velocity. I do know the longer barrels help even out variances in the ammo. That is certainly a needed thing. Because it is not at all consistent from what I have seen. So far I am very pleased with the way my 22" Vudoo Shilen is working.
All the best.
4Certain
Don't fool yourself into thinking you can eliminate fliers by simply weighing remfire ammo! Did you check each round for consistent rem thickness. How about consistent crimps. Did you mic. bullet diameters and overall length of each round? And don't forget about lube, is the same amount on each round? No way possible to check primer compound. All these things contribute to fliers or the inconsistent accuracy found in remfire ammo. Which are you eliminating by weighing? Think about it!
To your point littlestar, isn't that part of the fun/challenge/frustration of rimfire? I would think that if one wanted to do one-holes at 200 yds get a railgun and load your own. What's the fun in that?
(My opinion of course)
(My opinion of course)
I agree 100%. You can pay $200 a brick for ammo. Lot test. Weigh ,measure,, chronograph and computer analyze groups and still pull the trigger and say." Where the heck" did that shot come from! Thats the nature of remfire.
Ha! Indeed! Quite So....
I figure all I can do is control what I can.
The rest is like going down Suicide Hill in a Grocery Cart.
A Grocery Cart with Mega Front Wheel Wobble, Wobble, Wobble......
Lots of Excitement....
Not much Control...
4Certain
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Hello Norm Flyn,
This rifle has a magnificent elegance and it confirms my idea to have my Vudoo painted and I hope that you will not be upset to know that yours will have a twin in France.
No superfluous graphics, the logo of the Brand (Mike a shirt for the Pub !!!!) and the name of the christening, you will know it when I will present you the jewel.
Question: what is the weight of the PDT
cordially
Jacques
LS, when my good shooting friend (who has been shooting Benchrest a Long Time,) suggested consider weight sorting ammo, I asked the questions you did above. I did it in a different way. But I asked none the less. I had already measured rim thicknesses and decided that made no sense to me. And measured other things. I am only 5 months into Benchrest. But I am a long time shooter.
My friend told me of some measuring he had done. He disassembled quite a few good Eley bullets. He weighed the projectiles. Wiped off wax and weighed again. Weighed the powder. Weighed the Brass + Primer. Shot the primers then cleaned and weighed the brass. His conclusion what most of the weight differences was in the primer.
My guess is you do not know this gentleman. I am fortunate to. You may not trust his story. I do. Is the weighing 'perfect'? Well, of course not. Are there variances? More than I can count. But one thing I have seen. Weighed as George encouraged me to, has made a difference. All fliers gone? I wish. But so far, they are less and not as radical. It made enough difference that I will continue to measure and test.
Is rimfire ammo by nature full of variances? So it would seem. Does the more expensive ammo have fewer variances? It would seem so, but I have seen some variances in good ammo that were shocking to me. But those differences weight sorted out, seemed to yield some pretty good groups.
I figure I will continue to learn to sort and handle ammo properly. Learn to align my rests properly. Confirm rifle tracking for each shot. Learn to read the wind better. Continue to work on my technique. Listen to those who share info without contempt and ire. And hopefully have fun and enjoy the convoluted, winding inexact process.
Wishing you all the best.
4Certain
Thanks for taking the time to provide some background. When I read the response from LS I thought some of the variances might be able to be detected by weighing and some not. Of course any two could offset one another and mask each other. But when dealing with better ammo I would bet the vertical dispersion is greater than the horizontal most of the time. And I would put that down to differences in powder or primer that could be weight sorted for. Obviously you have put some effort and expense into doing this and you were kind enough to share your experience which I appreciate. Your patience and kindness is also apparent.
Thank you, Williwaw. I agree with you. That was my first response when evaluating to weigh ammo or not. All the potential variances. Weighting too many components at the same time made it seem like a fruitless effort. But after discussing with George and his experience that the variances he saw was in the primer. I felt like the weighing needed to be tried but it needed to be precise as well. Thus I looked for a better scale. And it seems to me the effort has been worth it. I have shot my best scores since undertaking that effort. Certainly I have learned to improve in other areas, most specifically in Tracking The Rifle fore and aft in the rests until it comes back to point at the Aim Point after moving fore and aft.
I have seen some fliers that I think resulted from the rifle just slightly deflecting to the side when ignited. When I would move the gun back forward, it would point at the 'flier'. Checking the Tracking Alignment has largely stopped that. Or at least made it less severe.
I will continue to pay attention to what mini fliers or larger, and see if I can detect a direction... You can see my last two targets above.
George's experience in weighing the disassembled rimfire ammo, gave me the nudge to try the weighing. I am glad I did. So far, and you and I both know things change, but so far it appears to be a worthwhile effort. It has also helped me see which ammo seems to shoot best in my guns. Note the post above with weight sort pics.
And I do love my V22S. What a fine piece of equipment. As an old Structural Engineer, I have seen lots of equipment. The ones well made are like a piece of art. The Vudoos fall into that category in my opinion.
Thank you for your thoughts.
All the Best.
4Certain
Very interesting, I shoot at a local club with some very good shooters at ARA targets. I have weighted many lots, checked for run out (concentricity) overall length, Different lot numbers of CX trying to keep the fliers out, I watch the wind flags, bought new rests, tried different cleaning routines all of this has helped, I better understand benchrest shooting, it is a tremendous amount fun learning and trying to get it right. Problem is, I keep getting beat by a gal who just puts the shell in the gun and pulls the trigger! The interest at our club continues to grow every week has a new gun, new rest or new shooter.
Hello to all
Still in the discussion I weigh, I measure 22LR ammunition I report here a discussion I had with an ISSF 3 position shooter who is also my ammunition supplier.
We spoke about all these controls of weighing and measurement of rim and thickness which for him was not necessary and he told me what he had lived during tests at RWS in Germany:
he talked about all this with the RWS tester, who told him we will do different tests with a selected batch
-1 shot of several ammunitions: result in the grouping
-2 removal of a chip at the end of the warhead: result in the grouping
-3 we remove a chip on the side of the warhead: result in the grouping
-4 a large scratch is made on the warhead: result in the grouping
-5 we remove a chip on the cylinder of the skirt: result out of the grouping
these ammunitions have been extracted randomly from the box
for the RWS tester, the only damage that can lead to a release from the grouping is a damage on the skirt
Haha! Doesn't that just drive you NUTZ! I know exactly what you mean!
I think many have thought about sorting at one point or another. The general consensus is that it is mostly a waste of time.
If you watch the guys winning at the highest level, they are not sorting ammo. Their success is more about knowing when NOT to shoot vs when to shoot. I think many of us, me included, think we are going to sneak one in. Most of the time it doesn't work and then we like to blame the ammo. Unfortunately, it most likely wasn't.
Not saying don't sort if you think it helps. Half of this game is confidence and if that gives you confidence, by all means do it. I just don't think it does much for your real scores.
If you watch the guys winning at the highest level, they are not sorting ammo. Their success is more about knowing when NOT to shoot vs when to shoot. I think many of us, me included, think we are going to sneak one in. Most of the time it doesn't work and then we like to blame the ammo. Unfortunately, it most likely wasn't.
Not saying don't sort if you think it helps. Half of this game is confidence and if that gives you confidence, by all means do it. I just don't think it does much for your real scores.
just scored some black box eley that will allow me to shoot all the Reg ir 50/50 matches at sac valley calif this summer .Is anyone else with a vudoo shooting matches this summer ?if so how are you doing
Just some local club matches BUT me and a buddy are driving out to Utah to visit VUDOO Mfg. in early July! Can't wait to meet the folks that built my beautiful rifle!
No official scoring yet. Still playing with the Harrell's tuner. Almost ran out of ammo. I did manage a 2450 14X on a USBR card. I plan on fine tuning Monday. I'm on the bike today.
We'll see what we can do sir...baby steps with this one. I just got the thing...
same as a ir 50/50 target competing is competing your fellow shooters are under same time limit.Life inst a spectator sport
Some Practice Groups from my Single Shot Vudoo this morning. 50 yards. Target like a Benchrest target.
The top row is from my Vudoo Tapered Barrel Repeater. Rows 2 and below are Single Shot.
4Certain
Eley Black Box. Tried several weight groups. 51.02/04. 51.30 up to 51.70. 51.14/.16.
A couple of nice tight groups on the 51.14/.16.
The top row is from my Vudoo Tapered Barrel Repeater. Rows 2 and below are Single Shot.
4Certain
Eley Black Box. Tried several weight groups. 51.02/04. 51.30 up to 51.70. 51.14/.16.
A couple of nice tight groups on the 51.14/.16.
Need to know what ring size, 11mm or 3/8", fits the various MOA rails made by Vudoo? I know the action uses 11mm rings.
Stephen, the OD of the Center Ring is 0.50"; 1/2". The same as the IBS Benchrest Targets we use by The National Target Co.
Thanks
4Certain
Thanks
4Certain
Sorry Stephen. I answered the wrong question. The Rails I have from Vudoo are all Picatinny. Rings that fit Picatinny Rails will work fine.
4Certain
Hi Norm Flynn
am I allowed to give you my @mail so that we can exchange on the adjustment of the tuner of the Vudoo following the Purdy procedure and determine the dimensions of the tuner, I do not have the rifle yet it is always blocked at my FFL, I hope its departure for France in June
cordially
jacques
Hello Norm,
I hope all is well. I just looked at the Triple Crown results and didn’t see your name. Sorry if I missed that you couldn’t make it. I’m a big fan of the V22S and want to see it do well. I see a lot of big names were there. Maybe next year I will try to be there. Once again I hope all is well.
They weren't really shot. I know of 3 rifles that were there and only 2 I know of that were shot in a match. As far as I know (which may not be exact so I am just presenting info) is 1 was shot in the PSL by Jeff (not sure of last name, but shot next to me). He didn't do well, but he was at least shooting. He only shot the PSL. Ivan shot the PSL, but was shooting his 10x. Norm didn't shoot the PSL. Greg may have shot his a card or two but switched to his 10x as well.
For the ARA, Norm was shooting his 2500x, Ivan didn't shoot, and Greg shot his 10x.
I shot so bad I didn't stick around for the TC, but I suspect Ivan shot his 10x. I don't think Norm shot and not sure which gun Greg shot.
For the ARA, Norm was shooting his 2500x, Ivan didn't shoot, and Greg shot his 10x.
I shot so bad I didn't stick around for the TC, but I suspect Ivan shot his 10x. I don't think Norm shot and not sure which gun Greg shot.
Club match today shot 2x250 cards and a 249 36x to win conditions were windy . 2nd place was a 2500x with 748 but better x count .Ezell tuner got this thing shooting great. Only down side is I keep getting ftf , a couple every card.
mattt, probably need to change the spring in the bolt to one of the others that came with the rifle. Should resolve the FTF issue.
RFS99
Tried all 6 makes no difference . As rifle came to me would not shoot with any spring in until I turned fire pin out 2 turns. Guess I will have to out 3 turns. Thanks for advice . Hate to mess with anything because it is shooting great but cant deal with the ftf. Only thing I can think of is maybe fire pin got two many thread and needs to be turned out to get to where it should be. Once again rifle will not fire as sent from Vudoo. Nothing like 1 bull away from a 250 ,your flags tell you to shoot then 2 ftf in a row
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that the way the rim fire ones are made. Threaded for center fire . Have 2 ezell tuners point blank they work!
Appreciate the info Jamie, I'll add a bit of context for the benefit of those that lack detail.
Ivan and Janet decided at the very last minute to go to Kettlefoot and since he hasn't quite finished his Vudoo yet, he shot his old rifle. As usual they represented very well and Ivan qualified for upcoming events, which is relevant for the Vudoo he's completing for himself. I also have a few barrels in the works for rifles I'm building for myself and a rather high profile outdoorsman. Things will get interesting over the next few months.
Jeff is a new shooter, as is the case for many aspiring to use a V-22S in BR and as you stated, he was there to shoot and had a great time. Highly commendable indeed when one focuses on the shooting and less on the things that just doesn't matter.
Jerry Smith declared to me on the phone about two weeks prior to Kettlefoot that he was definitely shooting Norm's rifle and asked for a few Vudoo shirts. We sent him six or so and I heard nothing afterward; not sure what happened, but, lesson learned (see my sig line below). I believe Norm was also expecting that Jerry would shoot his rifle, as it was set up the way Jerry wanted. Norm wasn't comfortable shooting his Vudoo mostly based on the fact that it had the 13 pound spring in it. Norm's ammo needed the 14 pound spring.
Can't speak to Greg or anyone else as I've not heard from them.
MB
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