Since people seem to lust after the M24/M40, why doesn't Remington offer a 700 with the same heavy barrel contour and correct length? Would it not sell?
Why doesn't Remington offer a 700 with a 24" M24/M40 Profile Barrel?
- Thread starter Wayfaerer320
- Start date
The thing is, I understand using the heavier M24/M40 barrel would drive the cost up, but I think people would still pay it - I know I would.
im not sure if this is accurate as all remington has to do when profiling their barrels is insted of turning it from 1.25-.830 to go to 1.2-.9, hell to make things simple, just run it 1.25-.90
the barrels start life as blanks then are turned down. there is no reason they cant do this
My guess is that it's all about cost and that the precision rifle market is small compared to the hunting rifle market. Many people do not want to hump a 24" M24 barrel through the woods. There are also several less expensive target shooting options than a heavy barreled 700.
Fair points, but I still think they would benefit from it if they offered it - people would pay it.
Daniel Defense has the right approach to selling guns - "Use what they use" - that kind of marketing sells guns - people want military clone guns.
Remington would be wise to follow the same approach. Yes, I understand simply using the correct barrel does not make it an M24 or M40, but they could do a better job at catering towards the military clone market.
Do we know this for sure, or is it decided by the hammering machine and its feed rate. I remember seeing a pic a while back that showed a 6-8 inch sleeve of steel that would become a 22-26" barrel once it was fed into the machine.
Either way a m24 contour 300wm would be nice.
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Remington Arms is run by bean counters. Not precision shooters. Some of their guys are, at best, hunters. Remington Defense doesn't care about civilian sales. You're SOL when it comes to getting good stuff out of them.
You're probably right.
However, don't they understand the market they're missing out on here?
How difficult is it for Remington to produce an M24 or M40 clone? It doesn't even need to be an exact clone (obviously this is custom shop work), but close enough that the rifle at least resembles the damn thing.
I'd take a factory 26" and/or 20" 1:8 Rem Varmint chambered in 260 every day and twice on Sunday before a truck axle barreled 308.
Yeah, it would be a nice option to have and I'd like to see Remington offer it but I for one would still opt for a barrel from one of the top makers and set it up the way I want to get what I expect from such a rifle.
Respectfully, but this is not a discussion about which barrel type is more practical for personal use.
Actually they do. It's called the 40XB and it's one of their custom shop target rifles. And it's a repeater, not a single shot.
The 5R just using 5R rifling like the M24. It's a marketing trick. Originally when they first came out there was discussion that the 5R barrels used on the 700 were from M24 builds that didn't pass inspection and then re contoured. I don't think that ended being true but there was some chatter in the early days of the 700 5R
strike is right - it's not the same barrel - it simply uses the same 5R rifling that the M24 barrel does - all you need to do is look at a picture of a military issue M24 and a Remington 5R and you can see the difference immediately - the M24 has a heavier barrel.
Even more than the usual gun company, money dictates. I say even more because Freedom Group, the holding company that owns Remington, is in turn owned by Cerberus Capital Management. Cerberus' whole business is to buy, lever up, slim down and sell companies. They couldn't give a rat's behind about long term issues or niche marketing. It's all about dollars and how fast they can squeeze money out of the company for the pension fund overlords who fund them (and as it turns out, who don't like guns. Go figure.)
There's a reason that Windham Weaponry exists (it was founded by the owner of Bushmaster after Cerberus bought Bushmaster) - folks like Cerberus don't often have an eye for service, quality, or keeping a nice place for people to work.
There's a reason that Windham Weaponry exists (it was founded by the owner of Bushmaster after Cerberus bought Bushmaster) - folks like Cerberus don't often have an eye for service, quality, or keeping a nice place for people to work.
Remington has produced the M24 for the civilian market for a long time, both in 7.62 NATO and in .300 WM. They just aren't in high demand at $4k a piece....
Remington Defense
Remington Defense
Are you referring to the M-24R (which is only available to active duty military)?
This is prolly the most accurate comment about it..."They" could give 2 shits less about the marketability of doing a M24 as Tacticool as it would be.
They're hard to find, but it's the LE version of the M24 that are sold on the civilian side. They don't have the U.S. stamp on the side of the receiver, but they are marked M24. Here's one for sale... Remington M24 SWS rifle and Nightforce NXS Scope : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com
They probably do. When "WE" look at the market it's huge. When they conduct "real world" market studies they see it as a far smaller niche. One that they fill with the 5-R Milspec.
I like the M-24. Not being able to find/afford one, I got a 5-R, shot the crap out of it, and now am replacing the barrel with essentially an M-24 barrel. I think that's what Remington see's their customers doing as well.
That's what I'm considering doing, as I can't afford a custom built clone (like a GAP).
Still, I don't see why Remington can't just offer the 5R with a thicker M24 profile barrel.
I am getting the m24 R, just getting the rest of the money up, since I am a B4 and active duty, I should be high on the list. but $3500 is a fair price for the unit but takes me time to get that.
Are you going with the .308 or one of the "Magnum" variants?
If only .308 I'd consider a 5-R Milspec with trigger change and new stock. That would bring the cost down to under $2,000. Then put the savings toward some great glass.
I refinished my 5-R with DuraCoat to get rid of the "Silver". My new barrel will get the same treatment. To me it looks a lot better than Remington's Black Oxide finish which seems to have the look and feel of an asphalt road.
How does the action of the 5R compare to the M-24's action?
EDIT: Forgot the M24 uses the long action - nevermind.
EDIT: Forgot the M24 uses the long action - nevermind.
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7-12
M24-R (Rebuild Program) specifics
If you are interested in purchasing a rifle, please print, read and understand the below notes;
PRODUCT NOTES
o Unit price is $3500 PLUS tax (state dependent) and shipping/handling ($85 per rifle); you are also responsible for any additional state fees or taxes (you must research your states requirements)
o Each system includes the following;
1x M24 with a new M24 receiver, barrel and fire control
Used optics and mounts
Used stock and accompanying components
Used cases
New or used accessories (tools, iron sights, etc)
o NOTE – This weapon is built from a combination of new and used parts, however each weapon is 100% tested and functional. Some accessories MAY NOT be present due to unavailability from the US Government.
o Changes occurred during the life of the M24; therefore the weapon you receive may have newer or older components depending on what is available.
o The US Army developed several accessories for the M24 which are not available (such as the flash hider), thus these items will not be included with the weapon you receive.
ADMINSTRATIVE NOTES
o Limit is one per person (dealers and distributors are not eligible to purchase for resale)
o Weapon must be retained for 1 year from date of purchase
o We cannot provide any specific serial numbered weapon; the US Army is still using most of the receivers for the XM2010 program.
o We will only accept a credit card for payment
o All sales are final, once your credit card is charged, the rifle will be shipped.
o If your credit card is declined at the point that the weapon is ready to ship, your order will be canceled and the next order in line will be processed. YOU WILL NOT BE NOTIFIED.
o Credit cards will not be charged until the rifle is ready to ship; this could take up to 2 months (we cannot charge the card before we are ready to ship).
o In order to process, all paperwork must be filled in correctly and completely. We must have a valid electronic FFL (even if the FFL holder has a copy on file with Remington). Any missing forms or information will result in the order not being placed/processed.
o Orders will NOT be held until the paperwork (order form, FFL or Credit Card) is corrected or provided.
o You must sign and return the “buyer authenticity statement” which states that you are buying this weapon for yourself and not for resale purposes.
ELIGIBILITY (ONLY THOSE QUALIFICATIONS LISTED WILL BE ACCEPTED)
o Category 1 (ONLY CATEGORY CURRENTLY OPEN)
Currently, only active duty sniper qualified personnel are eligible to purchase a rifle.
3-7-12
Accepted sniper school certificates are;
Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) Level I
Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) Level II
US Army Sniper school –B4 ASI
USMC Scout Sniper school
USMC Scout Sniper Instructor Course
USANG Sniper school – B4 ASI
USN SEAL sniper course
No other school or course diploma will be accepted
o Category 2 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Only those individuals who can prove they are on active duty or in the National Guard or Reserve currently will be eligible
Eligibility is not restricted to sniper qualified personnel, any member of the US Military (active), National Guard or Reserve is eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1 or 2 are not eligible
Will need to provide a copy of your ID card
o Category 3 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Personnel who have retired after 20+ years of honorable service will be eligible.
Personnel who have been medically discharged for wounds suffered in combat are eligible
Discharge from the military prior to retirement does NOT qualify
USDoD civilians or contractors who have retired (20+ years) from US Government service will be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2 or 3 are not eligible
Will need to provide proof of retirement
o Category 4 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Personnel currently assigned/employed by a Federal law enforcement agency will be eligible (must have arrest powers)
Personnel currently assigned/employed by a Federal intelligence agency will be eligible
Personnel who have retired from a Federal law enforcement or intelligence agency will be eligible
Personnel who have served but did not retire from a Federal law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2, 3 or 4 are not eligible
Will have to provide proof of current employ or retirement
o Category 5 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Officers currently assigned/employed by a state or local law enforcement agency will be eligible
Officers who have retired from a state or local law enforcement agency will be eligible
Officers who have served but did not retire from a state or local law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Reservists and/or honorary members of a state or local law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 are not eligible
Will have to provide proof of current employ or retirement
M24-R (Rebuild Program) specifics
If you are interested in purchasing a rifle, please print, read and understand the below notes;
PRODUCT NOTES
o Unit price is $3500 PLUS tax (state dependent) and shipping/handling ($85 per rifle); you are also responsible for any additional state fees or taxes (you must research your states requirements)
o Each system includes the following;
1x M24 with a new M24 receiver, barrel and fire control
Used optics and mounts
Used stock and accompanying components
Used cases
New or used accessories (tools, iron sights, etc)
o NOTE – This weapon is built from a combination of new and used parts, however each weapon is 100% tested and functional. Some accessories MAY NOT be present due to unavailability from the US Government.
o Changes occurred during the life of the M24; therefore the weapon you receive may have newer or older components depending on what is available.
o The US Army developed several accessories for the M24 which are not available (such as the flash hider), thus these items will not be included with the weapon you receive.
ADMINSTRATIVE NOTES
o Limit is one per person (dealers and distributors are not eligible to purchase for resale)
o Weapon must be retained for 1 year from date of purchase
o We cannot provide any specific serial numbered weapon; the US Army is still using most of the receivers for the XM2010 program.
o We will only accept a credit card for payment
o All sales are final, once your credit card is charged, the rifle will be shipped.
o If your credit card is declined at the point that the weapon is ready to ship, your order will be canceled and the next order in line will be processed. YOU WILL NOT BE NOTIFIED.
o Credit cards will not be charged until the rifle is ready to ship; this could take up to 2 months (we cannot charge the card before we are ready to ship).
o In order to process, all paperwork must be filled in correctly and completely. We must have a valid electronic FFL (even if the FFL holder has a copy on file with Remington). Any missing forms or information will result in the order not being placed/processed.
o Orders will NOT be held until the paperwork (order form, FFL or Credit Card) is corrected or provided.
o You must sign and return the “buyer authenticity statement” which states that you are buying this weapon for yourself and not for resale purposes.
ELIGIBILITY (ONLY THOSE QUALIFICATIONS LISTED WILL BE ACCEPTED)
o Category 1 (ONLY CATEGORY CURRENTLY OPEN)
Currently, only active duty sniper qualified personnel are eligible to purchase a rifle.
3-7-12
Accepted sniper school certificates are;
Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) Level I
Special Operations Target Interdiction Course (SOTIC) Level II
US Army Sniper school –B4 ASI
USMC Scout Sniper school
USMC Scout Sniper Instructor Course
USANG Sniper school – B4 ASI
USN SEAL sniper course
No other school or course diploma will be accepted
o Category 2 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Only those individuals who can prove they are on active duty or in the National Guard or Reserve currently will be eligible
Eligibility is not restricted to sniper qualified personnel, any member of the US Military (active), National Guard or Reserve is eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1 or 2 are not eligible
Will need to provide a copy of your ID card
o Category 3 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Personnel who have retired after 20+ years of honorable service will be eligible.
Personnel who have been medically discharged for wounds suffered in combat are eligible
Discharge from the military prior to retirement does NOT qualify
USDoD civilians or contractors who have retired (20+ years) from US Government service will be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2 or 3 are not eligible
Will need to provide proof of retirement
o Category 4 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Personnel currently assigned/employed by a Federal law enforcement agency will be eligible (must have arrest powers)
Personnel currently assigned/employed by a Federal intelligence agency will be eligible
Personnel who have retired from a Federal law enforcement or intelligence agency will be eligible
Personnel who have served but did not retire from a Federal law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2, 3 or 4 are not eligible
Will have to provide proof of current employ or retirement
o Category 5 (SEE BELOW CHART ELIGIBILITY PERIOD)
Officers currently assigned/employed by a state or local law enforcement agency will be eligible
Officers who have retired from a state or local law enforcement agency will be eligible
Officers who have served but did not retire from a state or local law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Reservists and/or honorary members of a state or local law enforcement agency will NOT be eligible
Personnel not meeting the requirements for category 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 are not eligible
Will have to provide proof of current employ or retirement
Basically, these aren't available to the average citizen. So, you can rule these out (at least for me anyway).
So, if the average citizen cannot purchase an M-24 or if an exact clone built by GAP is too costly, what is the next best thing?
700 5R or 700 Police?
(aside from the fact that they're short actions)
700 5R or 700 Police?
(aside from the fact that they're short actions)
A 700 with a good barrel stock and trigger, will do anything a 24 will do, it's mainly a nostalgia thing. For the same money you could have a setup that would match or exceed an m24's performance, but I do think it would be cool to have one painted just like my service stick. For that matter, you could build on a tikka and do even better for the money. I am not a fan of the m24's optic, but that's just me.
The average citizen cannot currently purchase a M24R, but they can purchase M24 from a Remington distributor. When the M24 contract was first given to Remington it restricted sales of the M24 rifle, however after it was awarded the second contract around 2002 that stipulation was removed. You can buy the rifle they are just expense. I see them on gunbroker from time to time. I know you can order them from some distributors, but expect a long wait and a premium price.
If I wre buying an off the shelf Remington I would probably buy a "5R", followed closely by a 700P. As to your question of which rifle to buy, It's sort of a chicken or beef question. I like the stock better and finish better on the 700P, but I like the barrel length, better on the 5R. You need to decide which flavor you like better. I suspect they will both perform about the same.
On a side note, I wanted tried to buy a M24 before the second contract was awarded. I contacted the Remington custom shop and was informed that while he couldn't sell me the completed rifle he would put the barrel on a 40XB for me. After some discussion I opted instead for a barrel with the same contour,but 6 lands and a 1 in 10 twist. He used the same chamber reamer and powder coated the barrel and action. I waited about 6 months and was very pleased with the performance of my rifle.
I sold that 40XB when I got divorced and ave regretted it ever since. I am currently awaiting completion of a M24clone made by Texas Brigade Armory. It will look more like my issued M24 and should shoot as well or better. I went this route, as I could collect parts over time ( for me about two years). I don't think I will save a lot of money by going this route, but I have enjoyed the process. For me, my love of the M24 is more about nostalgia, so it's worth the extra money.
If I wre buying an off the shelf Remington I would probably buy a "5R", followed closely by a 700P. As to your question of which rifle to buy, It's sort of a chicken or beef question. I like the stock better and finish better on the 700P, but I like the barrel length, better on the 5R. You need to decide which flavor you like better. I suspect they will both perform about the same.
On a side note, I wanted tried to buy a M24 before the second contract was awarded. I contacted the Remington custom shop and was informed that while he couldn't sell me the completed rifle he would put the barrel on a 40XB for me. After some discussion I opted instead for a barrel with the same contour,but 6 lands and a 1 in 10 twist. He used the same chamber reamer and powder coated the barrel and action. I waited about 6 months and was very pleased with the performance of my rifle.
I sold that 40XB when I got divorced and ave regretted it ever since. I am currently awaiting completion of a M24clone made by Texas Brigade Armory. It will look more like my issued M24 and should shoot as well or better. I went this route, as I could collect parts over time ( for me about two years). I don't think I will save a lot of money by going this route, but I have enjoyed the process. For me, my love of the M24 is more about nostalgia, so it's worth the extra money.
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I'm half tempted to start the process of piecing together an M24 build - acquiring the parts over time as you did and then having a gunsmith assemble it.
For the receiver, would a standard Remington 700 long action receiver work?
Yes, a long action 700 action will work. It wont have "correct" M24 stamping, but it is the same reciever. I had planned on using my Remington 700 BDL chambered in 3006 as a donor for this project but decided it didn't make sense to pull it apart. I searched the local pawn shops and found an acceptable donor rifle, then sold the stock and bottom metal to help defray the cost. I wanted to build an "old school" aka first contact M24, so I looked for a rifle made in the late 90s. The bolt handle was the main difference I could see. It's not really a big deal. I started off with a M24ish build and got carried away. If you are interested in building a M24 clone you should read through this thread as it has all the information you will need.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/51116-army-m24-build-thread.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-bolt-action-rifles/51116-army-m24-build-thread.html
While y'all are tossing around dream ideas. Have Remington finally make me a .223 with a 1/8 or 1/7 twist.
If I ever hit the lottery (that I don’t play) I will commission the manufacture of a Tac-Match line.
Look to see
a 5r 1:8 260 and 6.5 cm, a 5r 1:7 223, a 5r 1:8 243 and varmint barreled 30-06 just because. And in keeping in Remington tradition, all will have cheep a** stocks so you can put what you want on there.
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If I ever hit the lottery (that I don’t play) I will commission the manufacture of a Tac-Match line.
Look to see
Just think of the money one could save if Remington sold the above rifles as "barreled actions" only. Then the user, if they just wanted a cheap stock, could buy one online from those of us that have way too many of them on a top shelf somewhere.
Nice thread, looking at the 700 5 R hard, but I really want the M 24 contour barrel. Now I am thinking about getting a LA and a M 24 blank and having LRI do it as part of their Group buy.
A Distributor needs to commit to a large enough order. If the order is large enough, Remington will make just about whatever configuration the distributor wants. They (Remington) is in the business of making firearms, not selling firearms and their worst fear is getting stuck with firearms they can't sell.
