Why AI?

#251
NateVA said:
That's a whole other parallel can of worms. The Rokslide guys who do drop-testing and durability testing for zero retention with scopes get ridiculed here on SH. I would hope guys using AI's are using similarly rugged scopes and scope mounts too.

I guess for me (not that what I think matters at all) I'm on board with guys choosing AI for ultra-durability as long as they actually take durability seriously. Otherwise it's just LARPing to talk about that stuff. A rifle that can be dropped off a two-story building is great but won't help much if the scope won't retain zero from a 3 foot drop (and many of them won't).
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Mines primary use is for killing deer on crop permits. But it’s set up with the bullet proof mindset. I don’t plan to shoot gun gamer events with it. It has a purpose and fulfills its role well. It’s also the main gun I’d grab in a shit hit the fan type of environment.

It’s never let me down and I’ve built a ton of confidence in that gun and my ability with it. I’m LE as well so it could be implemented if needed in that role.

This is specifically in regards to the green AT above. I also have an ATX. Feels more like a game gun so far. Has the comp trigger and isn’t bonded. I don’t have the confidence in that one that I do in my AT. I plan to trade it out or use as a target type gun like most customs referenced here are used for typically

Not that’s it’s any less reliable. But it’s not in my opinion built to the same rugged standards as past model AI’s are. The comp trigger has had its issues although for target shooting it’s a fantastic trigger. Also the thinner unbonded chassis has seen its issues for people. That’s not just coming from me that’s facts from guys who are much more invested into AI’s than me. I loctited mine.

This ATX is a game gun in my opinion. I didn’t pay ridiculous AI prices for it though. The ATX are going fairly priced on the used market now

My AI’s wear a NF ATACR 735 and a ZCO 527. I didn’t skimp on optics in this regard. I do however have spuhr mounts on them. Which could shatter apart at any given second
 
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#252
4O6shootist said:
Nothing is invincible, everything fails with enough duty cycle. My atx has never failed me. My 700 clones have never failed me. I've put 10x more rounds through my 700 clones. Ai bolt handles break, the comp trigger fails. TT diamonds fail, BnA get full of shit and can fail. 700 clone can fail. My atx won't feed 6gt for shit from aw mags, but uses. My 700 clone ARC aics mags perfect. However my CDG runs 6gt from bone stock aw mags like it was born for it. AI has no advantage over the top end 700 clones. You're buying a name that has pedigree and notoriety, that's it. AI no longer has supremacy over anything, cept premium prices, they still up on top that list. I like my atx, but it does nothing my other rigs do, cept quick swap a barrel, but I don't do that much anymore.
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Technically that trigger isn't made by ai, or wasn't originally. It was made by xtreme and was identical to the cg Jackson mod 22 trigger xtreme made, with addition of overtravel stop. The cg Jackson trigger was top notch 4 lever 2 stage, the ai version suffered from some guys wanting a 5-6oz 2nd stage pull. I had one briefly on my at, it was a bit light with light spring and with heavier spring it was similar to factory at. I switched back to at factory after reading about reset issues with comp trigger, just tuned at a bit. It was still lackluster compared to ae triggers
 
#253
hafejd30 said:
spuhr mounts on them. Which could shatter apart at any given second
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8CE6B430-C303-43F9-ABBC-CE20A5478683.gif



You could just run ZCO and NF mounts and not have a known weak link in yo system
 
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#254
6brshooter said:
Technically that trigger isn't made by ai, or wasn't originally. It was made by xtreme and was identical to the cg Jackson mod 22 trigger xtreme made, with addition of overtravel stop. The cg Jackson trigger was top notch 4 lever 2 stage, the ai version suffered from some guys wanting a 5-6oz 2nd stage pull. I had one briefly on my at, it was a bit light with light spring and with heavier spring it was similar to factory at. I switched back to at factory after reading about reset issues with comp trigger, just tuned at a bit. It was still lackluster compared to ae triggers
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The trigger is part of AI's chosen system of components. They put it in their rifle, it might as well be made by them.

I've not touched mine, and it's been good.

I'm sorry but nobody gets a free pass or excuses because they chose a 3rd party compenent on a $4-5K rig. It should all be relatively bomb proof.
 
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#256
hafejd30 said:
Mines primary use is for killing deer on crop permits. But it’s set up with the bullet proof mindset. I don’t plan to shoot gun gamer events with it. It has a purpose and fulfills its role well. It’s also the main gun I’d grab in a shit hit the fan type of environment.

It’s never let me down and I’ve built a ton of confidence in that gun and my ability with it. I’m LE as well so it could be implemented if needed in that role.

This is specifically in regards to the green AT above. I also have an ATX. Feels more like a game gun so far. Has the comp trigger and isn’t bonded. I don’t have the confidence in that one that I do in my AT. I plan to trade it out or use as a target type gun like most customs referenced here are used for typically

Not that’s it’s any less reliable. But it’s not in my opinion built to the same rugged standards as past model AI’s are. The comp trigger has had its issues although for target shooting it’s a fantastic trigger. Also the thinner unbonded chassis has seen its issues for people. That’s not just coming from me that’s facts from guys who are much more invested into AI’s than me. I loctited mine.

This ATX is a game gun in my opinion. I didn’t pay ridiculous AI prices for it though. The ATX are going fairly priced on the used market now
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The AXSR’s are also not bonded so if AI doesn’t deem it necessary to bond their guns anymore that would indicate that maybe bonding it doesn’t actually mean much in terms of a reliability difference.


not for anyone specifically, but with customs yes certain combos aren’t good out the box but not all AI’s are either. My CDG feeds AW’s smoother and better than my actual AI. Ironic but it’s true.
Honestly if someone would reimburse me for scratches/dents I’d do a drop test of 20ft with one of my customs vs an AI.
To the point of course this chassis/action/barrel might get dented and scratched but I do believe it would feed and shoot.

Someone mentioned the big rig Ferrari argument, I don’t think that’s super accurate either. People want to bring up AI’s were built for certain purposes: military, LE, etc. and yes absolutely military is #1 on their list but I also think it’s a modified “if it’s good enough for the military it’s good enough for me” approach.
How many people would use a tremor3 reticle cause the military does? How many people are rushing to buy MRADs? But for some reason we run to AI’s.
How many LE departments actually use AI’s vs customs? Fact is there’s plenty of LE departments using rifles based on custom actions, so, good enough for that application where a gun has to run no matter what.

I’m not trying to knock anyone for choosing an AI for whatever reasons they want. Look cool, makes them feel good because maybe there’s a guy somewhere in the world that’ll jump out of a plane with one, like the logo, history, etc. but as I stated earlier I think there’s a little delusion these days that it’s double the reliability of a good custom.
 
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#257
6brshooter said:
Technically that trigger isn't made by ai, or wasn't originally. It was made by xtreme and was identical to the cg Jackson mod 22 trigger xtreme made, with addition of overtravel stop. The cg Jackson trigger was top notch 4 lever 2 stage, the ai version suffered from some guys wanting a 5-6oz 2nd stage pull. I had one briefly on my at, it was a bit light with light spring and with heavier spring it was similar to factory at. I switched back to at factory after reading about reset issues with comp trigger, just tuned at a bit. It was still lackluster compared to ae triggers
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I still have 2 or 3 of the Xtreme mod22 triggers. Most reliable trigger I’ve ever used and it’s survived a lot of matches where many others failed.
Not sure what if anything AI did to change it, but I hope not much.
 
#258
Covertnoob5 said:
The AXSR’s are also not bonded so if AI doesn’t deem it necessary to bond their guns anymore that would indicate that maybe bonding it doesn’t actually mean much in terms of a reliability difference.


not for anyone specifically, but with customs yes certain combos aren’t good out the box but not all AI’s are either. My CDG feeds AW’s smoother and better than my actual AI. Ironic but it’s true.
Honestly if someone would reimburse me for scratches/dents I’d do a drop test of 20ft with one of my customs vs an AI.
To the point of course this chassis/action/barrel might get dented and scratched but I do believe it would feed and shoot.

Someone mentioned the big rig Ferrari argument, I don’t think that’s super accurate either. People want to bring up AI’s were built for certain purposes: military, LE, etc. and yes absolutely military is #1 on their list but I also think it’s a modified “if it’s good enough for the military it’s good enough for me” approach.
How many people would use a tremor3 reticle cause the military does? How many people are rushing to buy MRADs? But for some reason we run to AI’s.
How many LE departments actually use AI’s vs customs? Fact is there’s plenty of LE departments using rifles based on custom actions, so, good enough for that application where a gun has to run no matter what.

I’m not trying to knock anyone for choosing an AI for whatever reasons they want. Look cool, makes them feel good because maybe there’s a guy somewhere in the world that’ll jump out of a plane with one, like the logo, history, etc. but as I stated earlier I think there’s a little delusion these days that it’s double the reliability of a good custom.
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The argument for the AI reliability is that it stems back many years to the early AW’s. The AI unlike many custom actions and triggers has a very long track record of success to back it.

It’s not until comp trigger and the ATX that it really become a conversation. At that point it entered the conversations in prs which the original designed AI was never technically for in the first place.

When these custom actions and triggers have seen as many rounds as some AI’s out there then they can stake claims to long term reliability

MRADS don’t have the track record close to AI either
 
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#259
hafejd30 said:
The argument for the AI reliability is that it stems back many years to the early AW’s. The AI unlike many custom actions and triggers has a very long track record of success to back it.

It’s not until comp trigger and the ATX that it really become a conversation. At that point it entered the conversations in prs which the original designed AI was never technically for in the first place.

When these custom actions and triggers have seen as many rounds as some AI’s out there then they can stake claims to long term reliability

MRADS don’t have the track record close to AI either
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Sure AI has a great history of reliability, but there are customs that see 10k + rounds/year from competitors as well. Aside from Jacob what’s the next highest known round count on an AI? Cause it sure isn’t a military unit putting 10k+ rounds/year on their AI’s.
 
#260
4O6shootist said:
The trigger is part of AI's chosen system of components. They put it in their rifle, it might as well be made by them.

I've not touched mine, and it's been good.

I'm sorry but nobody gets a free pass or excuses because they chose a 3rd party compenent on a $4-5K rig. It should all be relatively bomb proof.
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I don't follow all AI, is that trigger standard fair in atx? I saw it as a 3rd party part when I bought it separate from my AT about 6-7 yrs ago.
 
#262
Covertnoob5 said:
Sure AI has a great history of reliability, but there are customs that see 10k + rounds/year from competitors as well. Aside from Jacob what’s the next highest known round count on an AI? Cause it sure isn’t a military unit putting 10k+ rounds/year on their AI’s.
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It’s not just round count though. It’s the conditions in which they were fired as well.

I know guys who shoot that on stiller fclass guns every year. I wouldn’t say it’s a reliability test to put 10k rounds through a gun that’s nestled in a $1500 rest every shot

It’s about a long term proven reliable platform through adverse conditions. I mean my fclass gun barely sees a spec of dust and just from minor dust and carbon my trigger needs cleaning regularly or it has issues

I’m not necessarily referring to prs or competition settings when discussing AI’s in general.

1000 rounds fired on a military or even an LE weapon which spends more time riding than it does shooting can have a very different life than a very well cleaned and maintained 10,000 rounds on a range

He asked “Why AI” well for me what I’ve posted is why. I don’t shoot prs though and as he stated I don’t think it’s the best fit for prs. Origional AI’s attract a different crowd
 
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#263
I want to see these 20’ drop tests.

Gonna wreck any scope having a 20 pound rifle land scope first. A can and muzzle threads most likely aren’t going to fare well either.


Also be interesting to know how many atx comp trigger failures are adjusted triggers versus stock settings.
 
#264
BurtG said:
I want to see these 20’ drop tests.

Gonna wreck any scope having a 20 pound rifle land scope first. A can and muzzle threads most likely aren’t going to fare well either.


Also be interesting to know how many atx comp trigger failures are adjusted triggers versus stock settings.
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I’ll donate a savage and barska! If you want to bring your AI we’ll have both ends of the spectrum covered 😁
 
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#265
BurtG said:
I want to see these 20’ drop tests.

Gonna wreck any scope having a 20 pound rifle land scope first. A can and muzzle threads most likely aren’t going to fare well either.


Also be interesting to know how many atx comp trigger failures are adjusted triggers versus stock settings.
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I'm betting an aimpoint gets fucked up in that fall, a magnified optic would get a knob broke off or tube bent.
 
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#268
hafejd30 said:
You don’t see many for that price anymore. Mine had the spigot and thumbholes already as well. Which I wanted. Best $3k I ever spent
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That’s for sure. I had to buy the spigot but it was still a good deal.

I think I’m the only person on the planet that was happy going from the thumbhole stock to the pistol grip stock when I traded off my AE on the AT.
 
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#269
NateVA said:
Phillip Velayo has said that as a sniper in the Marines his usual allotted round count for practice was 30-40 rounds every 3 months. Maybe non-US military snipers practice way more but I was surprised how low that number was.
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When I was a sniper in the army, we had ammo all the time. My first enlistment was under Clinton, and we had no ammo, then came Bush, and our pay doubled in 6 months, and we had endless aammo. Then I got out, went back in under Bush and then Obama, and we had all the ammo we could shoot. When I was stationed at FT Carson, we would get the sniper range 4-8 times a month and we would shoot until our fingers were blistered from loading ammo. I've personally fired 500 rounds+ of m118LR in a single day, many many times. I don't know why he wouldn't have had ammo..
 
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#270
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
When I was a sniper in the army, we had ammo all the time. My first enlistment was under Clinton, and we had no ammo, then came Bush, and our pay doubled in 6 months, and we had endless aammo. Then I got out, went back in under Bush and then Obama, and we had all the ammo we could shoot. When I was stationed at FT Carson, we would get the sniper range 4-8 times a month and we would shoot until our fingers were blistered from loading ammo. I've personally fired 500 rounds+ of m118LR in a single day, many many times. I don't know why he wouldn't have had ammo..
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Perhaps because it's the USMC being the USMC...
 
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#271
FuhQ said:
Actually, people who buy AI's would be more Boomer/Fudd than people who don't, based simply upon AI's time frame of heaviest service use and their "glory days" when they were the top dog. And no, I don't get on ARFcom... Never have, never will.
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Fuck dude, just let it go....... The reason to buy an AI these day is just because you want too.
Not sure why shit threads like this get traction.
Anyways, I guess carry-on
 
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#272
BurtG said:
View attachment 8464056


You could just run ZCO and NF mounts and not have a known weak link in yo system
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Serious question, im from germany and all i know is Spuhr. They are known to be bulletproof oder here. Never seen any NF mounts etc, those are quiet rare, same with their glass. ZC is something you see quiet regularly these days.

What exactly are the issues with spuhr mounts?

I prefer them over ERATAC mounts because of the integrated bubble level.
 
#273
kthomas said:
How many SH'ers are doing parachute jumps with rifles they purchased?

I'm assuming very, very few.
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If I hit an IED on the way to the range, the "bomb proof" nature of my rifle is the last thing on my mind.....

Sir.... you've lost both your legs, and you're penis is very small.

But.... does my bolt.... still cycle??

Yes. Yes it does.

Post on... the forums... my AI.... *gasps* is bomb pr..... *flat lines*
 
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#278
BurtG said:
Cracked clapping bars
Cracked ring caps
Binding up scopes parallax etc
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I’m down to 1 Sphur, a one piece hunting version on my 7-08. I never had one break, but I’ve see plenty on here that have. I’ve never had one that I truly liked except the current hunting one.

I’m beginning to wonder why I ever strayed away from Badger mounts at all. It seems I have started moving back to them on just about everything I have that is “fancy and new”
 
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#279
roostercogburn98 said:
I’m down to 1 Sphur, a one piece hunting version on my 7-08. I never had one break, but I’ve see plenty on here that have. I’ve never had one that I truly liked except the current hunting one.

I’m beginning to wonder why I ever strayed away from Badger mounts at all. It seems I have started moving back to them on just about everything I have that is “fancy and new”
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Only thing is didn’t like about badger was the finish they used years ago. And the price of the Raptar rails.



Only thing spuhr has going is versatility. Can have your red dot at 87 different locations. 14 different Raptar rail heights etc

But scope mounts are like guns. Reliability has to come first
 
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#280
BurtG said:
Only thing is didn’t like about badger was the finish they used years ago. And the price of the Raptar rails.



Only thing spuhr has going is versatility. Can have your red dot at 87 different locations. 14 different Raptar rail heights etc

But scope mounts are like guns. Reliability has to come first
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The c1 has somewhat closed that gap compared to the OG Badger unimounts. I’ve seen one set of Badger rings break, and those were broke by an AMU guy on the KD range. He was tightening them, and one snapped. Crazy thing is they changed the set right there on the range, and that rifle went in to win the LR portion of All Army that year.

I’ve always been in the camp of function versus looks, but it is always a bonus when your gear is pleasing to the eye.
 
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#283
Pete B said:
Fuck dude, just let it go....... The reason to buy an AI these day is just because you want too.
Not sure why shit threads like this get traction.
Anyways, I guess carry-on
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Precisely… That is the only justifiable reason to buy anything non-necessity, but people feel the need to justify things instead of just saying “because I wanted one, and because I can afford it”. And there’s nothing wrong with that level of justification. That’s why we have majority of the guns and toys we have, right?
 
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#284
I actually own 3 currently and I bought them because 1.) I like the history and I even bought the book, 2.) they have proven to be 100 percent reliable for any use that I put them through which is mainly bench and prone shooting at steel targets out to 600 + yards, 3.) because I wanted to. If I competed then maybe it would be a different story but I know I don’t have to fiddle with anything and I have 100 percent confidence it will work every time. But maybe I am glutton for punishment from gun manufacturers because I also love HK firearms.
 
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#286
Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I am a former us army sniper. Went through 3 iterations of issue sniper rifles. Some of them were not that great for the role, but it was what we had. My comment probably includes some nuance that you didn't pick up: plenty of rifles are used for that purpose that aren't well suited for it. I did a training exercise with 10th group's sotic team and a bunch of police snipers from the greater Denver area back in about.....2011. Some of those guys had walmart 700's with $80 bushnell scopes and were called "police snipers". You don't know what you don't know, but I'd be careful kicking dirt in my face, I'm much better at this than you are, so don't be disrespectful.
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I got this far in the thread, and figured I'd take a stab at quantifying the Accuracy International to a US Army B4.

You started with the M24. It had its issues. Plenty of things you hated about it. Plenty of things you wish it did but you found all the ways to make it work, and work well, with M118LR. You even cursed the hybrid MOA/MIL Leupold scope. You then got the XM2010 and M2010, got to experience a superior caliber in .300WM and the change to a chassis system, while still maintaining the familiar feel of the Remington action.

The Accuracy International takes all the things you loved and hated about your service sniper rifles, and makes them better. Its a rifle you simply do not have to fight in any way, shape or form. It's the rifle with adjustability and a trigger/shoe setup that ensures the rifle fits like a glove, including adjustability of trigger weight in both stages. Its the rifle with a tight and positive locking bolt and the smoothest action you've ever felt, along with a 60 degree throw that makes cycling taughter that you thought possible. And you get to do this from a FACTORY rifle, making all adjustments within minutes, yourself. This includes barrels, knowing every single component you get, including spare parts, will fit like a glove and will not require an armorer.

Its a rifle that is guaranteed to do 20mm groups at 100 meters, and 30mm groups after 10,000 rounds. Its a rifle that shoots better on your worst shooting days, than any of your service rifles on your best days. Its the rifle that when you absolutely, positively want to say, "It's my shooting or the ammo, and not a problem with the rifle," you can be sure of it.

Its the rifle you can count on in any weather condition, any environment, and know it will work, period. And I must emphasize the extremes: where other triggers and actions would fail from sand, from ice, from moisture and mud, this rifle fairs through it all. From the coldest, most snowy days to the hottest, most sandy ones. And its a rifle that can go through 30+ years of fieldcraft, use and abuse without needing a single component replaced due to catastrophic failure i.e. bolt, firing pin, etc. Its the one rifle that if shit hit the fan, you'd want to be grabbing and knowing that it will get you through anything. In the precision shooting world, it is the peak of the "buy once cry once" dichotomy.

As an example: the two rifles shown below from ISC 2024 -- Irish Military Issue AI96 Sniper Rifles, designated the Arctic Warfare (AW) by AI chambered in 7.62 -- are from 1993, and are all original: the bolt, the firing pin, the barrel, all of it. Only things changed are the skins which were upgraded to a newer thumbhole stock system, and the glass using modern SPUHR and S&B. That a sniper rifle that sees fieldcraft can be ran and used accurately for this long, is a testament to their cability, ruggedness and robustness.

PXL_20240410_122807210-01.jpeg


You get the rifle because you want these things out of it, because it takes your beloved M2010 and dials everything to 11. With modern glass, modern Atlas B&T bipod, and any additional features you crave, you end up with a rifle that will take anything you throw at it.

So to answer: for some its knowing that their training to hit paper and steel is never about fighting the rifle itself. For some, its knowing they can hit that varmint every single time without failure. And further still, for MIL/LEO, its the rifle that delivers a cold bore shot when it counts... every, single, time, without fail.

There are comparable rifles out there. But the choices are few and far between of what can be offered from a factory rifle, right out of the box. No matter your reason or rhyme, you get an AI when you absolutely must hit your target without failure every single time, with no exception.

Even today, with the Barrett MK22 in service with B4s, there are still trigger failures and frames cracking...

So ask yourself: have you ever had even a single situation where you were fighting your own rifle, whether it be any of your service rifles, or your personally owned ones? You get an AI when you finally say, "I can't afford to fight my rifle under any condition." Full stop.

I hope this quantifies things a bit better for you brother. Its an interesting question, and I'm happy to debate it.

Below is my own rifle, the AT308 with 20" factory barrel (4R 1:12) which seems to have an unusual love for Federal GMM SMK 175gr and allows me to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. I got the rifle because I know that any training I do, ever, this rifle can handle it without fail. And I love knowing that if it ever shoots badly, that it is 100% my own fault and not the equipment, allowing me to focus very well on bettering myself. Just my personal note.

PXL_20240608_001218725.PORTRAIT~2.jpg


P.S. - The history and pedigree of Accuracy International is also quite awesome, and is nothing short of inspiring. If you'd like some YouTube links to some very well made videos on it, I'd be happy to share.
 
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#287
 
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#288
HKSniper11B said:
I got this far in the thread, and figured I'd take a stab at quantifying the Accuracy International to a US Army B4.

You started with the M24. It had its issues. Plenty of things you hated about it. Plenty of things you wish it did but you found all the ways to make it work, and work well, with M118LR. You even cursed the hybrid MOA/MIL Leupold scope. You then got the XM2010 and M2010, got to experience a superior caliber in .300WM and the change to a chassis system, while still maintaining the familiar feel of the Remington action.

The Accuracy International takes all the things you loved and hated about your service sniper rifles, and makes them better. Its a rifle you simply do not have to fight in any way, shape or form. It is a rifle with adjustability and trigger/shoe setup that allows the rifle fits like a glove, including trigger weight in both stages. Its the rifle with a tight and positive locking bolt and the smoothest action you've ever felt, along with a 60 degree throw that makes cycling taughter that you thought possible. And you get to do this from a FACTORY rifle, making all adjustments within minutes, yourself. This includes barrels, knowing every single component you get, including spare parts, will fit like a glove and will not require an armorer.

Its a rifle that is guaranteed to do 20mm groups at 100 meters, and 30mm groups after 10,000 rounds. Its a rifle that shoots better on your worst shooting days, than any of your service rifles on your best days. Its the rifle that when you absolutely, positively want to say, "It's my shooting or the ammo, and not a problem with the rifle," you can be sure of it.

Its the rifle you can count on in any weather condition, any environment, and know it will work, period. From the coldest days to the hottest. And its a rifle that can go through 30+ years of fieldcraft and use without needing a single component replaced due to catastrophic failure i.e. bolt, firing pin, etc. Its the one rifle that if shit hit the fan, you'd want to be grabbing and knowing that it will get you through anything. In the precision shooting world, it is the peak of the "buy once cry once" dichotomy.

As an example: the two rifles shown below from ISC 2024 -- Irish Military Issue AI96 Sniper Rifles, designated the Arctic Warfare (AW) by AI chambered in 7.62 -- are from 1993, and are all original: the bolt, the firing pin, the barrel, all of it. Only things changed are the skins which were upgraded to a newer thumbhole stock system, and the glass using modern SPUHR and S&B. That a sniper rifle that sees fieldcraft can be ran and used accurately for this long, is a testament to their cability, ruggedness and robustness.

View attachment 8466612

You get the rifle because you want these things out of it, because it takes your beloved M2010 and dials everything to 11. With modern glass, modern Atlas B&T bipod, and any additional features you crave, you end up with a rifle that will take anything you throw at it.

So to answer: for some its knowing that their training to hit paper and steel is never about fighting the rifle itself. For some, its knowing they can hit that varmint every single time without failure. And further still, for MIL/LEO, its the rifle that delivers a cold bore shot when it counts... every, single, time, without fail.

There are comparable rifles out there. But the choices are few and far between of what can be offered from a factory rifle, right out of the box. No matter your reason or rhyme, you get an AI when you absolutely must hit your target without failure every single time, with no exception.

Even today, with the Barrett MK22 in service with B4s, there are still trigger failures and frames cracking...

So ask yourself: have you ever had even a single situation where you were fighting your own rifle, whether it be any of your service rifles, or your personally owned ones? You get an AI when you finally say, "I can't afford to fight my rifle under any condition." Full stop.

I hope this quantifies things a bit better for you brother. Its an interesting question, and I'm happy to debate it.

Below is my own rifle, the AT308 with 20" factory barrel (4R 1:12) which seems to have an unusual love for Federal GMM SMK 175gr and allows me to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. I got the rifle because I know that any training I do, ever, this rifle can handle it without fail. And I love knowing that if it ever shoots badly, that it is 100% my own fault and not the equipment, allowing me to focus very well on bettering myself. Just my personal note.

View attachment 8466614

P.S. - The history and pedigree of Accuracy International is also quite awesome, and is nothing short of inspiring. If you'd like some YouTube links to some very well made videos on it, I'd be happy to share.
Click to expand...
Close the thread already; we are done here
 
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#289
HKSniper11B said:
I got this far in the thread, and figured I'd take a stab at quantifying the Accuracy International to a US Army B4.

You started with the M24. It had its issues. Plenty of things you hated about it. Plenty of things you wish it did but you found all the ways to make it work, and work well, with M118LR. You even cursed the hybrid MOA/MIL Leupold scope. You then got the XM2010 and M2010, got to experience a superior caliber in .300WM and the change to a chassis system, while still maintaining the familiar feel of the Remington action.

The Accuracy International takes all the things you loved and hated about your service sniper rifles, and makes them better. Its a rifle you simply do not have to fight in any way, shape or form. It is a rifle with adjustability and trigger/shoe setup that allows the rifle fits like a glove, including trigger weight in both stages. Its the rifle with a tight and positive locking bolt and the smoothest action you've ever felt, along with a 60 degree throw that makes cycling taughter that you thought possible. And you get to do this from a FACTORY rifle, making all adjustments within minutes, yourself. This includes barrels, knowing every single component you get, including spare parts, will fit like a glove and will not require an armorer.

Its a rifle that is guaranteed to do 20mm groups at 100 meters, and 30mm groups after 10,000 rounds. Its a rifle that shoots better on your worst shooting days, than any of your service rifles on your best days. Its the rifle that when you absolutely, positively want to say, "It's my shooting or the ammo, and not a problem with the rifle," you can be sure of it.

Its the rifle you can count on in any weather condition, any environment, and know it will work, period. From the coldest days to the hottest. And its a rifle that can go through 30+ years of fieldcraft and use without needing a single component replaced due to catastrophic failure i.e. bolt, firing pin, etc. Its the one rifle that if shit hit the fan, you'd want to be grabbing and knowing that it will get you through anything. In the precision shooting world, it is the peak of the "buy once cry once" dichotomy.

As an example: the two rifles shown below from ISC 2024 -- Irish Military Issue AI96 Sniper Rifles, designated the Arctic Warfare (AW) by AI chambered in 7.62 -- are from 1993, and are all original: the bolt, the firing pin, the barrel, all of it. Only things changed are the skins which were upgraded to a newer thumbhole stock system, and the glass using modern SPUHR and S&B. That a sniper rifle that sees fieldcraft can be ran and used accurately for this long, is a testament to their cability, ruggedness and robustness.

View attachment 8466612

You get the rifle because you want these things out of it, because it takes your beloved M2010 and dials everything to 11. With modern glass, modern Atlas B&T bipod, and any additional features you crave, you end up with a rifle that will take anything you throw at it.

So to answer: for some its knowing that their training to hit paper and steel is never about fighting the rifle itself. For some, its knowing they can hit that varmint every single time without failure. And further still, for MIL/LEO, its the rifle that delivers a cold bore shot when it counts... every, single, time, without fail.

There are comparable rifles out there. But the choices are few and far between of what can be offered from a factory rifle, right out of the box. No matter your reason or rhyme, you get an AI when you absolutely must hit your target without failure every single time, with no exception.

Even today, with the Barrett MK22 in service with B4s, there are still trigger failures and frames cracking...

So ask yourself: have you ever had even a single situation where you were fighting your own rifle, whether it be any of your service rifles, or your personally owned ones? You get an AI when you finally say, "I can't afford to fight my rifle under any condition." Full stop.

I hope this quantifies things a bit better for you brother. Its an interesting question, and I'm happy to debate it.

Below is my own rifle, the AT308 with 20" factory barrel (4R 1:12) which seems to have an unusual love for Federal GMM SMK 175gr and allows me to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. I got the rifle because I know that any training I do, ever, this rifle can handle it without fail. And I love knowing that if it ever shoots badly, that it is 100% my own fault and not the equipment, allowing me to focus very well on bettering myself. Just my personal note.

View attachment 8466614

P.S. - The history and pedigree of Accuracy International is also quite awesome, and is nothing short of inspiring. If you'd like some YouTube links to some very well made videos on it, I'd be happy to share.
Click to expand...
If you asked me to come up with the perfect AI,

These are two that would top my list

Beautiful 😍
 
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#290
B4forever said:
OP, your observations are basically correct…AI’s are phenomenal mil/LE sniper rifles. Their are better choices for gun games and hunting. I run a 16” AT-LE at work and it’s the most ridiculously boring gun I’ve ever owned or been issued. It’s stupid reliable, never looses zero, shoots the same POI with open air/barrier rounds, and will produce 5/8” 5rd groups (Hornady TAP) time after time (sub .5 with Federal but I’m issued Hornady). Whenever I attend training across the state or region I see quite a few guys constantly messing with their rifles (Typically some R700 clone). My AI comes out of the trunk and just does what it does EVERY SINGLE TIME. All that being said, even if money was no object, I’d opt for a different rifle for non LE/MIL purposes. And as mentioned previously in other posts, they don’t require gunsmithing and are easy to acquire parts for. I also appreciate the folding stock and user adjustability. These are nice features for a rifle that will have multiple/different sized owners over its lifespan.
Click to expand...
Question: which TAP? The Hornady TAP ELD Precision 168gr or Hornady TAP A-Max 168gr?
Also, which barrel are you running in the ATLE: the 4R 1:12 Walther or 5R 1:10 Bartlein?
I've had precision inconsistency issues running the TAP ELD Precision 168gr from my 1:12 Walther in my AT.
 
#291
HKSniper11B said:
I got this far in the thread, and figured I'd take a stab at quantifying the Accuracy International to a US Army B4.

You started with the M24. It had its issues. Plenty of things you hated about it. Plenty of things you wish it did but you found all the ways to make it work, and work well, with M118LR. You even cursed the hybrid MOA/MIL Leupold scope. You then got the XM2010 and M2010, got to experience a superior caliber in .300WM and the change to a chassis system, while still maintaining the familiar feel of the Remington action.

The Accuracy International takes all the things you loved and hated about your service sniper rifles, and makes them better. Its a rifle you simply do not have to fight in any way, shape or form. It is a rifle with adjustability and trigger/shoe setup that allows the rifle fits like a glove, including trigger weight in both stages. Its the rifle with a tight and positive locking bolt and the smoothest action you've ever felt, along with a 60 degree throw that makes cycling taughter that you thought possible. And you get to do this from a FACTORY rifle, making all adjustments within minutes, yourself. This includes barrels, knowing every single component you get, including spare parts, will fit like a glove and will not require an armorer.

Its a rifle that is guaranteed to do 20mm groups at 100 meters, and 30mm groups after 10,000 rounds. Its a rifle that shoots better on your worst shooting days, than any of your service rifles on your best days. Its the rifle that when you absolutely, positively want to say, "It's my shooting or the ammo, and not a problem with the rifle," you can be sure of it.

Its the rifle you can count on in any weather condition, any environment, and know it will work, period. From the coldest days to the hottest. And its a rifle that can go through 30+ years of fieldcraft and use without needing a single component replaced due to catastrophic failure i.e. bolt, firing pin, etc. Its the one rifle that if shit hit the fan, you'd want to be grabbing and knowing that it will get you through anything. In the precision shooting world, it is the peak of the "buy once cry once" dichotomy.

As an example: the two rifles shown below from ISC 2024 -- Irish Military Issue AI96 Sniper Rifles, designated the Arctic Warfare (AW) by AI chambered in 7.62 -- are from 1993, and are all original: the bolt, the firing pin, the barrel, all of it. Only things changed are the skins which were upgraded to a newer thumbhole stock system, and the glass using modern SPUHR and S&B. That a sniper rifle that sees fieldcraft can be ran and used accurately for this long, is a testament to their cability, ruggedness and robustness.

View attachment 8466612

You get the rifle because you want these things out of it, because it takes your beloved M2010 and dials everything to 11. With modern glass, modern Atlas B&T bipod, and any additional features you crave, you end up with a rifle that will take anything you throw at it.

So to answer: for some its knowing that their training to hit paper and steel is never about fighting the rifle itself. For some, its knowing they can hit that varmint every single time without failure. And further still, for MIL/LEO, its the rifle that delivers a cold bore shot when it counts... every, single, time, without fail.

There are comparable rifles out there. But the choices are few and far between of what can be offered from a factory rifle, right out of the box. No matter your reason or rhyme, you get an AI when you absolutely must hit your target without failure every single time, with no exception.

Even today, with the Barrett MK22 in service with B4s, there are still trigger failures and frames cracking...

So ask yourself: have you ever had even a single situation where you were fighting your own rifle, whether it be any of your service rifles, or your personally owned ones? You get an AI when you finally say, "I can't afford to fight my rifle under any condition." Full stop.

I hope this quantifies things a bit better for you brother. Its an interesting question, and I'm happy to debate it.

Below is my own rifle, the AT308 with 20" factory barrel (4R 1:12) which seems to have an unusual love for Federal GMM SMK 175gr and allows me to shoot 1/2 MOA consistently. I got the rifle because I know that any training I do, ever, this rifle can handle it without fail. And I love knowing that if it ever shoots badly, that it is 100% my own fault and not the equipment, allowing me to focus very well on bettering myself. Just my personal note.

View attachment 8466614

P.S. - The history and pedigree of Accuracy International is also quite awesome, and is nothing short of inspiring. If you'd like some YouTube links to some very well made videos on it, I'd be happy to share.
Click to expand...
Wow, thank you. That's an impressive assessment. That's exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for.
 
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#292
6brshooter said:
A few years ago on here there was a thread and guys were talking about how tough their various custom rifles were and reliable. Tom Irwin from AINA offered to test anyone's rifle against an Ax or At in 2 story drops and enviromental tests, pretty sure that thread just went quiet, lmao.
Click to expand...
Irwin, as an AI rep, is playing with house money. If I owned one, I wouldn’t let him drop my AI from 2 stories for any reason, let alone to prove a dumb point to imaginary people on the internet.
 
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#293
hlee said:
Irwin, as an AI rep, is playing with house money. If I owned one, I wouldn’t let him drop my AI from 2 stories for any reason, let alone to prove a dumb point to imaginary people on the internet.
Click to expand...
And house reputation...... he was probably banking on most people backing down vs putting money where mouth was.
 
#294
6brshooter said:
And house reputation...... he was probably banking on most people backing down vs putting money where mouth was.
Click to expand...
You mean guys didn't line up to have him drop their $5,000-10,000 rifles (that they spent their own money on) off a roof? This certainly says something about the reliability of their actions in rain/dirt/ice.
 
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#297
My reply was a bit tongue in cheek. It wasn't really "my rifle handles fine dust, no mine handles ice," and tom busted in with a 2 story drop challenge. Guys were bragging how bomb proof their shit was, maybe comparing to AI or better. As I recall that's when Tom tossed the gauntlet down.
 
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#300
Pete B said:
Shit like this is his job, as a rep......
Click to expand...
Yes. So it's not his stuff getting damaged and he's not paying for the repairs.
Pete B said:
People who want to talk smack were given an option
Click to expand...
To probably have their rifles damaged after being chucked off a roof. There are a lot of things on a rifle that could get damaged without it ceasing to function. And those more minor damages are not desirable to people with $10,000 rifles.
Pete B said:
this is why talk is cheap
Click to expand...
I agree. This is why putting out challenges that you know no one is going to take (because people who spend their own $10,000 on their rifle don't want to intentionally damage them) qualifies as cheap talk. It's like if people were arguing over which rifles were more precise and he said "Pay for your own airfare to come prove it on my home range". Again, I think AIs are probably more reliable as a system just by virtue of the trigger being a limiting factor for Remington clones. But his challenge is stupid and nonsensical.
 
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