Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?

When I was doing that I only had a 400 yard max range with steel at only 400 yards and for a couple years only 100 yards with no steel as they shut my rifle range down because they said rounds went over the trees and hit a house.

Those couple years of 100 yards only were a couple of my better years too. I would use paper small targets and act like they were at farther ranges as the smaller targets would look like they would at longer ranges. You still can practice all the stuff at the firing line like moving on a prop and setting up and getting in positions etc. Shooting at long range is not needed to get good practice.

For hold overs and unders you just dial up or down on the scope and hold the opposite. Just gets you used to holding somewhere on the reticle other than the center. Granted only doing this at 100 isn't the best as having a couple hundred yards and holding between yardages but you can also make up targets to hang at 100 that will simulate that as well.

If you can move through the props and get stable and take the shot then the only thing you need to worry about when taking the longer shots is wind.
Sounds like Rimfire is the cost effective solution for limited long range access.
 
It could be but depends if you want to learn the recoil as well of the centerfire. My main practice rifle has always been a .308 just for that reason. Like swinging a heavy bat.
Long range access and ammo cost make the bulk of my practice Rimfire. I bring out the 300PRC to make sure I remember how noisy it is. Recoil matters, but the first 45 years of my life an unbraked 30-06 was what every one I know used.
 
Long range access and ammo cost make the bulk of my practice Rimfire. I bring out the 300PRC to make sure I remember how noisy it is. Recoil matters, but the first 45 years of my life an unbraked 30-06 was what every one I know used.

Yeah when I started the sport no one had brakes on their rifles in matches. Mostly .308s but some others. Rimfire is good to practice with but the rifle needs to be close to your centerfire to get the same feel in setting up positions.
 
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IDK. I’ve ROd a couple of national PRS matches, but only because they were put on by the guys running the local monthly match. Shooting on Thursday or Friday would mean taking days off of work.
All USPSA level 2 and 3 matches provide free lodging and some meals. USPSA nationals also provide a travel stipend.

Staff shooting days during level 2 and 3 matches are invariably Thursday and Friday, and sometimes Wednesday. Matches don't have an RO shortage


How many guys are actually traveling flights/hotels/etc just to volunteer RO a PRS event?
Probably none right now since they don't get to compete, evidently.

I'm going to repeat this for the millionth time: all of this has been figured out in one form or another by pretty much all shooting sports that existed before PRS.
 
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There is no prize money or prize tables in USPSA.

Depends on the match and MD. Quite a few of the USPSA Lvl 2 on up matches I goto have a prize table of some sort. Some you walk in order of finish, others do it via random draw. I have shot at some USPSA matches that give away cash for stage winner or top 3. Like I said, depends on the match and MD.

USPSA Staff comp package varies by match and MD.

Lvl 2 Sectional or State match staff is usually on their own for lodging but you get match fee comped and usually some swag. A lot of lvl 2’s rely on local folks to be staff but there are some notable large Lvl 2’s with 200-300 competitors that take in enough cash from registration and sponsorship to mimic staff comp package for Lvl 3 (Area = Regional) match.

Lvl 3: Hotel stipend is common, or seeing more MDs just give out a $300 cash package to staff. Some staff will pool their stipend on a VRBO. Or if local, it’s an extra payday for gas and whatnot. Plus you get your match fee comp’d.

Lvl 4 (USPSA Nationals): they provide a free hotel room (gotta share with somebody), a $25/day per diem for dinner (breakfast at hotel, lunch provided at range), and up to $375 travel stipend. If Nats is within driving distance I can usually do it with no out of pocket expense. If I have to fly and rent a car (carpool w/ other staff) then the staff comp package doesn’t quite cover my costs -but when you factor in the comp’d match fee (~$400) you’re definitely ahead of where you’d be if you were paying your own way as a regular competitor. Just gotta trade sweat-equity for cost savings.
 
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PRS: I worked a 2-day PRS match that my local club was hosting, to help them out. They fed me and paid me to work for two-days. I would have gladly traded the $ for ability to shoot the day before as Staff, but the way the stages were setup that wouldn’t have been possible. Stages 1-10 were shot on Day 1, then reconfigured that evening for Day 2 as 11-20. So best staff could do would be to shoot stages 1-10. Not sure if a lot of 2-day matches are like that, prob depends on the size of the range.

NRLH: The two matches I worked as staff they didn’t pay us anything but we got to camp at the match location for free, comp’d match fee, shot all stages the day before, they fed us lunch each day, and we got to walk prize table in order of finish. Also got some swag for working. One of the matches raffled off a rifle, and the proceeds went to the Staff as a modest payout to cover expenses like gas. I’m good with that model for staff tho I will say shooting 18-22 stages in one day is mentally tiring.
 
Depends on the match and MD. Quite a few of the USPSA Lvl 2 on up matches I goto have a prize table of some sort. Some you walk in order of finish, others do it via random draw. I have shot at some USPSA matches that give away cash for stage winner or top 3. Like I said, depends on the match and MD
Haven't seen one in Area 5 in the 5 years I've been in the sport including the A5 match. If they have prize tables it ain't round here.
 
What did you do when you practiced 3 days a week?

Shoot something resembling a real match?

I built a barricade and keep it in my backyard. Then using some math I printed targets on sheets of paper, water proofed them, and hung them up on a tree about 40-50yds away. The target sizes are at a ratio to appear the size they would be at whichever distance 400, 600, 700 etc. You can make different targets and sizes, then use a random generator on excel or the interwebs to create a mock "stage". Make your own decision to dial or hold left/right wind to practice what holding .3 of wind looks like on your reticle and target. Dryfire does wonders for practice, don't pass it up.

PS, just check your minium distance your parallax can focus at on your scope to make sure you have that distance available in the backyard. If you don't have that 30-50yd distance available, you could look into the DFAT kit from Rifles Only.com and dryfire in your home.
 
Haven't seen one in Area 5 in the 5 years I've been in the sport including the A5 match. If they have prize tables it ain't round here.
there’s quite a bit of USPSA that exists outside of Area 5 (like 7 other areas). So when you say there’s no prize money or prize tables in USPSA that’s not accurate. Locally? Sure, whatever. Other matches? Not the case.
 
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Introduce a limited division in PRS. Limit caliber selection, and cost, but allow people to swap chassis. Not every manufacturer sells a production class gun so you're limited to maybe 4-5 options. If someone has a Tikka for example and throws it in a chassis they're definitely under the price tag, but now compete in Open. There needs to be something intermediate between Production and Open. Maybe even modifying what Production is as well. I'm sure this isn't a popular opinion seeing as how most view Production class as pointless anyway.
 
Introduce a limited division in PRS. Limit caliber selection, and cost, but allow people to swap chassis. Not every manufacturer sells a production class gun so you're limited to maybe 4-5 options. If someone has a Tikka for example and throws it in a chassis they're definitely under the price tag, but now compete in Open. There needs to be something intermediate between Production and Open. Maybe even modifying what Production is as well. I'm sure this isn't a popular opinion seeing as how most view Production class as pointless anyway.
Do you shoot PRS now?
 
PRS and the industry have evolved to a point that cost doesn’t limit performance nearly as much as it once did. The top 10-30 will still win with a Tikka or Bergara in a chassis. Alwine is winning with a savage in a $500 MDT. Production was always a joke in my mind and is even more so now.

While I love the premium gear a guy who practices with a modern rifle system with a functional scope can compete. It’s not the gear these days in my opinion. So many good options.

If you want to create divisions. You leave open for everyone that wants to shoot BR cartridges in 20+ lb rifles. Nothing wrong with that, embrace that is what this sport evolved to. Then create a big gun division with a power factor and weight limit. Then add incentive to shoot that division. Those guys walk first or get more raffle tickets etc.

NRLH has a pretty good model in my opinion.
 
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PRS and the industry have evolved to a point that cost doesn’t limit performance nearly as much as it once did. The top 10-30 will still win with a Tikka or Bergara in a chassis. Alwine is winning with a savage in a $500 MDT. Production was always a joke in my mind and is even more so now.

While I love the premium gear a guy who practices with a modern rifle system with a functional scope can compete. It’s not the gear these days in my opinion. So many good options.

If you want to create divisions. You leave open for everyone that wants to shoot BR cartridges in 20+ lb rifles. Nothing wrong with that, embrace that is what this sport evolved to. Then create a big gun division with a power factor and weight limit. Then add incentive to shoot that division. Those guys walk first or get more raffle tickets etc.

NRLH has a pretty good model in my opinion.
Skill is skill, I just see holes in the divisions. Like when Gas gun had 2 different classes. Now people are shooting 6GT from Seekins SP10s. I guess one could always go to gas gun specific matches but at least for me, I love shooting PRS more than other gas gun matches. I actually started shooting 5.56 gas gun, then 6Arc and now I'm shooting my second bolt gun match at the Grind. I think Production or Limited actually showcases skill more than hiding behind gear. Which I've seen a lot of people do.

Open is Open, do what you want. But having more variation in divisions I think would draw more people to the sport. Also more matches in more states as well but thats another topic.
 
I see your points but new guys just need to come shoot, learn, be safe and have fun. Most of them are going to suck or at best be MP, regardless of gear. Barrier to entry is literally ego and some cash.
 
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I see your points but new guys just need to come shoot, learn, be safe and have fun. Most of them are going to suck or at best be MP, regardless of gear. Barrier to entry is literally ego and some cash.
Funny, Im reading another thread about this and the point is this. How does a new shooter even know what they need? Where to go? What caliber? What bag? You say just show up and shoot, but what fun is it when the course of fire is so hard because its tailored to open and pros? My first couple matches I was so discouraged, maybe hit 30/100. But guys in my squad with 25lb MPAs were cleaning every stage. Is it me? Is it my rifle? My gear? I think squadding also plays a lot into it too. I personally try to squad with gas gun and production or tac class guys. We all tend to shoot around the same and have fun helping each other out.
 
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Open is Open, do what you want. But having more variation in divisions I think would draw more people to the sport. Also more matches in more states as well but thats another topic.
We recently restarted monthly matches at my local range here in central Nebraska. From 2018-2020 we hosted probably 20-25 matches. I got burnt out in 2020 with it, mainly because of the junk you still see at the majority of matches. Long story short, I recently stepped back into it because there was no monthly matches in Nebraska, and we had a 1200yd range that was basically rotting away those 4 years, with dudes who were asking me to make it happen again. I've really tried to put effort into figuring out ways and format to appeal to a wider crowd, as we've got a blend of pretty good PRS/NRLH shooters, pure hunters, and new guys in the area.

We're are doing a sort of beta test during our first 3 "reboot' matches with running an Open Division and "Practical" Division. The Open division is the basic run what you brung, no restrictions. The Practical Division is basically a 16lb and under no muzzle brake division, with a small point bonus for running a lighter weight rifle (basically 1 pt for every 2lbs under 16lbs). Since getting a solid format for the practical division nailed down, I've had more interest in it across the board from everyone. It's got guys thinking about ditching their 25lb rifles, which kind of surprised me.

My approach to restarting matches is to keep them short and sweet, 6-8 stages, $40-$50 entry, to treat them almost as glorified organized practice sessions. Run them monthly year around, with a season points chase building to a finale, with $20 of each entry fee from the season matches going back into a season points chase purse. Some of it is definitely the core group of dudes that are attending the matches, but I think we've found a pretty solid balance of competitive environment and place for new shooters to come out and start connecting the dots.
 
Funny, Im reading another thread about this and the point is this. How does a new shooter even know what they need? Where to go? What caliber? What bag? You say just show up and shoot, but what fun is it when the course of fire is so hard because its tailored to open and pros? My first couple matches I was so discouraged, maybe hit 30/100. But guys in my squad with 25lb MPAs were cleaning every stage. Is it me? Is it my rifle? My gear? I think squadding also plays a lot into it too. I personally try to squad with gas gun and production or tac class guys. We all tend to shoot around the same and have fun helping each other out.
First let me say that the best thing you did was show up and shoot. I tell people the same thing, because I’ve had and still get guys that want to come and just watch maybe a and ask questions, but somehow never actually get around to finding out how to do it really.

Personally if you showed up and shot 30/100, you did as I would expect from somebody doing that very thing. Like I did uhm, about 14 years ago.

That was the point of saying that ego and its balance with knowledge is what holds most back. Take the first couple/few Local matches as learning how it really works, learning what gear seems to work, why people are shooting the caliber and rifle configuration they are, see the flow of the course of fire and learn ways to address diffferent situations and barricade/obstacle types.

Then spend some good money on some PRS courses that are specifically designed to show you how to accomplish them.

Sound like too much? Your choice, but consider the challenge of increasing your on the spot accuracy and muscle memory.
 
If you don’t make your living shooting Precision Rifle Matches, and you are not having fun shooting those matches, you’re in a wrong place.

It’s not the guns, it’s the people. I shot two matches this weekend. Folks, I am one month shy of 76 times around the sun, I am hardly competitive. But in both cases, the people I shot with were Ultra Friendly, Exceptionally helpful and most of all Tolerable. I had a great time. The Centerfire match was hardly a best for me, technically the second worst. But, I won a trophy. Not a physical trophy, the cool kids did that (including both second place and Ladies champions were in the squad I shot with on Sunday). My trophy, at 76, is shooting and hitting targets. Some of those targets were darned hard targets, some were 4 digits of yards away! Heck, as hot as it was on Saturday, I watched people quit and go home, either from the heat or the lack of success. But as I said, my trophy is getting to do it. And I’m No Quitter.

You know what, that is really what this is all about. Getting to do it. 99% of us are never going to be winners. But we can all strive to do our best, and our best is good enough.

28 out of 84 at the Rimfire Match on Sunday. Had a blast. Did you?

IMG_4010.jpeg
 
First let me say that the best thing you did was show up and shoot. I tell people the same thing, because I’ve had and still get guys that want to come and just watch maybe a and ask questions, but somehow never actually get around to finding out how to do it really.

Personally if you showed up and shot 30/100, you did as I would expect from somebody doing that very thing. Like I did uhm, about 14 years ago.

That was the point of saying that ego and its balance with knowledge is what holds most back. Take the first couple/few Local matches as learning how it really works, learning what gear seems to work, why people are shooting the caliber and rifle configuration they are, see the flow of the course of fire and learn ways to address diffferent situations and barricade/obstacle types.

Then spend some good money on some PRS courses that are specifically designed to show you how to accomplish them.

Sound like too much? Your choice, but consider the challenge of increasing your on the spot accuracy and muscle memory.
This is almost exactly what I tell every new person that's inquiring about shooting matches with us. The first thing you need to do is to get out of your head. If you can safely handle a rifle just show up, and don't be an asshole. If you're new I will do everything I can to make the first impression of the game a good one but you will be drinking from a fire hose the first few matches and what gear you have or don't have isn't going to change that.

Kind of in that thought. I feel MD's at the club level, at least locally, seem to have really lost sight of the POV of the new shooter and have tried to turn club matches into "mini" national matches. Dudes want to talk about growing the sport & etc, but fail to create the setting in matches where new shooters & experienced shooters are both getting something from the match, but damn those prize tables were killer.......... 🤷‍♂️
 
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This is almost exactly what I tell every new person that's inquiring about shooting matches with us. The first thing you need to do is to get out of your head. If you can safely handle a rifle just show up, and don't be an asshole. If you're new I will do everything I can to make the first impression of the game a good one but you will be drinking from a fire hose the first few matches and what gear you have or don't have isn't going to change that.

Kind of in that thought. I feel MD's at the club level, at least locally, seem to have really lost sight of the POV of the new shooter and have tried to turn club matches into "mini" national matches. Dudes want to talk about growing the sport & etc, but fail to create the setting in matches where new shooters & experienced shooters are both getting something from the match, but damn those prize tables were killer.......... 🤷‍♂️
I’ll say that you are not wrong. But I’m a nobody and do not court the sponsors, so no prize tables. It’s a local match. We used to do nothing other than read out your placing, but now we give plaques or recognition for top placement, egos being what they are these days.

You want free shit? Pay for and go to the big matches and place where you do. You’ll get some shit.

Want to really learn? Choose wisely. 😉
 
Kind of in that thought. I feel MD's at the club level, at least locally, seem to have really lost sight of the POV of the new shooter and have tried to turn club matches into "mini" national matches. Dudes want to talk about growing the sport & etc, but fail to create the setting in matches where new shooters & experienced shooters are both getting something from the match, but damn those prize tables were killer.......... 🤷‍♂️
At the matches and facebook pages where the MD’s ask what kind of match the shooters want for the next match, it seems all the folks chime in that they want a harder match and the match directors are making it so. It does affect business. I took one look at the mandated course of fire at a NRL match, and packed my stuff. That match changed from NRL mandated course of fire to PRS, shot a match and enjoyed the heck out of it.

All that said, make ti too easy and it’s just as much a waste of time. I really think one day matches need to have about 35% easy stages, 30% of stages that push a weak shooter hard, and can be fun for a good shooter to see how fast he/she can get through it and 35% of the stages that push the cool kids to the absolute limit.
 
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I’ll say that you are not wrong. But I’m a nobody and do not court the sponsors, so no prize tables. It’s a local match. We used to do nothing other than read out your placing, but now we give plaques or recognition for top placement, egos being what they are these days.

You want free shit? Pay for and go to the big matches and place where you do. You’ll get some shit.

Want to really learn? Choose wisely. 😉

I am relatively new and place quite poorly . . . but for what it is worth I enjoy the shooting and learning and improving. I do a little better each time, and I am perfectly content with shooting local matches and not worrying about all of that other stuff.

What was a pleasant surprise for me is how welcoming everybody is of a new shooter and how helpful they can all be once they see that you suck at PRS style shooting. LOL.

Hey, somebody has to place toward the bottom of the pack, even at the local events.
 
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Hey, somebody has to place toward the bottom of the pack, even at the local events.
And that somebody is me! It dawned on me a while back to get my ego shut down. Decades ago, when I was young, our Regional Supervisor was a man named Terry McPhearson. Mr. Mac was a runner. However, in his late 60’s to early 70’s he always finished last. And he was proud of the fact that he could complete the course, and forget where he finished.

Even as short as 2017, I was not only classified as in the International Class, I could shoot International Class. That was then, this is 2018 and beyond. Broken hand and then a broken back and old age did my balance and ability to hold a firearm steady ended all that.

Still, I was upset when i shot poorly, I was used to shooting at the top of the class, I was one of the Cool Kids. But I wasn’t.

then it dawned on me. I shot a match and due to an error in scoring, I was placed in last place. I should have been next to last, but two points were lost when a computer went down. And it dawned on me, what did it matter if I finished in the bottom 50%, 25% or dead last. Having fun was important, I was never going to be THE winner again anyway…

AND, If I finished last, no one else would have to have that feeling. Something that really did not matter to me. I don’t aim to be the winner of the “Lanterne Rouge” but if I do win it, someone else can go home, feeling just a bit better.

its the sport of the game, not always having to be the “winner” of the game. Not a participation trophy, but a trophy that you did your best and your best is always a win.

 
First let me say that the best thing you did was show up and shoot. I tell people the same thing, because I’ve had and still get guys that want to come and just watch maybe a and ask questions, but somehow never actually get around to finding out how to do it really.

Personally if you showed up and shot 30/100, you did as I would expect from somebody doing that very thing. Like I did uhm, about 14 years ago.

That was the point of saying that ego and its balance with knowledge is what holds most back. Take the first couple/few Local matches as learning how it really works, learning what gear seems to work, why people are shooting the caliber and rifle configuration they are, see the flow of the course of fire and learn ways to address different situations and barricade/obstacle types.

Then spend some good money on some PRS courses that are specifically designed to show you how to accomplish them.

Sound like too much? Your choice, but consider the challenge of increasing your on the spot accuracy and muscle memory.
Im not asking for advice on how to shoot matches. I've learned a lot in 2 years and was fortunate enough to work with a PRS Pro who guided me initially. Only thing holding me back is having moved from SE GA to Middle TN the frequency and distance to matches sucks. K&M being the only range in TN that holds matches and thats almost 3 hours one way. But my original comment was about expanding the PRS Divisions so.....
 
At the matches and facebook pages where the MD’s ask what kind of match the shooters want for the next match, it seems all the folks chime in that they want a harder match and the match directors are making it so. It does affect business. I took one look at the mandated course of fire at a NRL match, and packed my stuff. That match changed from NRL mandated course of fire to PRS, shot a match and enjoyed the heck out of it.

All that said, make ti too easy and it’s just as much a waste of time. I really think one day matches need to have about 35% easy stages, 30% of stages that push a weak shooter hard, and can be fun for a good shooter to see how fast he/she can get through it and 35% of the stages that push the cool kids to the absolute limit.
Figuring out ways to write a CoF and set up a match, so that the entire field of shooters can get something out of is what separates a good MD from just a dude hosting a match.

At the local level…. If I beat the crap out of a new shooter and throw him/her to the wolves, my experience has been they usually aren’t coming back for more. If I throw a bunch of 3 or 4 moa steel out there and host a meatball match, chances are that experienced shooter isn’t coming back. Either way it’s a loss for the match or either group of shooters.

There’s a balance there, and a good MD knows how to manage that. You need both groups of shooters to feed off each other.

My approach is writing a simple straightforward and practical CoF, where target size is usually gonna determine the difficulty of the stage. Make the matches about shooting and the practical application of marksmanship. So that experienced shooters are getting their reps in a match setting, and new shooters are exposed to how experienced shooters approach certain situations.
 
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I see your points but new guys just need to come shoot, learn, be safe and have fun. Most of them are going to suck or at best be MP, regardless of gear. Barrier to entry is literally ego and some cash.
I would also say the barrier is the learning curve at some events. There has been a arms race of upping the competitions to make them challenging where a new guy who enters us overwhelmed. It's extremely frustrating to go into events you have no way of preparing for and have never seen. One example is an action pistol stage with moving target.

I would not expect the higher level competitors to have to dumb it down, but I would like to run a stage over and over until I'm competent rather than touch it once a month and take baby steps. The static stages can be practiced solo, but entry is brutal for someone that has been shooting static targets.
 
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At this point in time I think club matches are not only best bang for your buck but you get the relaxed and instructive environment a new guy needs. If your local club isn’t doing this for news guys someone needs to speak up.

Side comment: The action pistol is interesting and used to be a thing back in the day. It is not allowed in sanctioned PRS any more as far as I know unless pistol is put on a stage for everyone and is more of just a stressor before shooting rifle. I remember shooting a full auto AR at Heat stroke before a stage. Was cool. I wouldn’t fret out of the norm stuff like that though, it gets you out of your comfort zone. Not a bad thing. Shoot some run n guns to have similar experience. The ones I’ve done are laid back but get you familiarity with pistols and ARs and making sure your gear is streamlined and squared away.
 
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