Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?

[Dead Eye Dick]

I have to admit, want a trophy, there are much less expensive ways to get one. (As in go to a trophy shop). The real win is to compete against yourself. Working to get better, working to score a higher percentage. Seeing your improvements and enjoying the ride. True, 80% of us are never going to win, and in the end, having multiple classes, means, for the people who actually win, its an empty victory. Myself, I revel when I exceed my expectations. And yes being a Senior Olympic cyclist, I have a wall full of medals. But, what I remember is not getting a medal, its the day I set a personal best, quickest time and fastest average speed, the day, I made the sharp turn at 40mph on a rain slick road, (scared the shit out of me but i made it) they day, I shot 72% in a match, That’s where the 80% wins

Frankly brother, if you have to have a trophy, you’re in the wrong room.

I know I sound harsh and apologize in advance, but its not the medals, its the memories, its the accomplishements

All this, without the memories of accomplishment is just cloth ribbon and pot medal

 

[Mongo68]

I compete for the free chamber flags left behind on the table after all the real shooters leave…

 

[Rob01]

 

[PRS-JohnB]

Why do you want a prize so bad that you need a dummied down division

Why would you say its a dummied down devision. Is Senior Class, Ladies Class, Etc dummied down divisions? I am just saying that "most" people who compete in a sport do so to win. That is why high school basketball players don't play against NBA players. they are on different levels. I shoot b/c I love it, but I compete b/c i want to win.

 

[Rob01]

Why would you say its a dummied down devision. Is Senior Class, Ladies Class, Etc dummied down divisions? I am just saying that "most" people who compete in a sport do so to win. That is why high school basketball players don't play against NBA players. they are on different levels. I shoot b/c I love it, but I compete b/c i want to win.

You want to win the match or just win a trophy for the best new guy in 79th place out of 100 shooters?

 

[PRS-JohnB]

Yeah, I think several of you mis understood my comments. We all shoot b/c we enjoy shooting. Just like golfers play golf b/c they love it. But why does a golfer enter into golf tournaments? Simply b/c he like to play? Nah, if that was it, he would grab a 6 pack and join his buddies for a round. He joins a tournament to compete against others. But that is why you have various levels of play in pretty much any sport. There are classifications based on skill level. That's what i was saying. Determine parameters around what an "amateur" is and make that a classification. Let Amateurs compete against similar skill shooters so they can duke it out match to match. Your telling me that you go to a match and don't look at the end of the match to see where you fell in the line up compared to everyone else. Of course you did. If you were not interested in competing, you would stay at your home range and simply shoot targets. I am just saying, If guys who really want to compete come out match after match and never have a chance to compete for 1st place, then what are you competing for?

 

[Rob01]

Yeah, I think several of you mis understood my comments. We all shoot b/c we enjoy shooting. Just like golfers play golf b/c they love it. But why does a golfer enter into golf tournaments? Simply b/c he like to play? Nah, if that was it, he would grab a 6 pack and join his buddies for a round. He joins a tournament to compete against others. But that is why you have various levels of play in pretty much any sport. There are classifications based on skill level. That's what i was saying. Determine parameters around what an "amateur" is and make that a classification. Let Amateurs compete against similar skill shooters so they can duke it out match to match. Your telling me that you go to a match and don't look at the end of the match to see where you fell in the line up compared to everyone else. Of course you did. If you were not interested in competing, you would stay at your home range and simply shoot targets. I am just saying, If guys who really want to compete come out match after match and never have a chance to compete for 1st place, then what are you competing for?

Because it’s fun. You are saying you want a trophy. You know you can’t win but you want to be judged against other guys who can’t win so should they give out a trophy every 10 or 20 positions at a match? What will make you happy?

And how are you going to determine who these “Amateurs” are? Some sort of testing to add yet another layer of BS to the sport? You will get sandbaggers who will do it just to get a trophy. Now what?

 

[PRS-JohnB]

Because it’s fun. You are saying you want a trophy. You know you can’t win but you want to be judged against other guys who can’t win so should they give out a trophy every 10 or 20 positions at a match? What will make you happy?

And how are you going to determine who these “Amateurs” are? Some sort of testing to add yet another layer of BS to the sport? You will get sandbaggers who will do it just to get a trophy. Now what?

Rob01, for a moderator, you sure are aggressive. What happened to the reason for this original post? I believe it was started to kick around ideas of how to make the sport better and how to retain non pro shooters who feed the sport. If you guys tonight are the face of PRS, I can see why people leave. You are cutting someone down for trying to come up with ways to make the sport better. I myself am a new shooter who has two matches under my belt. My first I came in about 4 spots from the bottom. This past weekend i came in 25th out of 103. That is a great improvement, but to crack the top 15-20 will take some serious work on my behalf and the hope that one of them is having an off day. I am just looking for ways to find those who are of similar skill level as myself to compete with.

As far as how to break it down, well, lets see...I do believe PRS already has these classifications laid out. That is a good start.
Professional: Top 20%
Semi-Pro: Next 25%
Marksman: Next 25%
Amateur/UnClassed: Remaining 30%

Like i said, I love to shoot and that is what brought me to this sport. But like any athlete in a sport, I am here to compete and not simply shoot my rifle while hanging with other shooters. That part is just a great bonus.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

While we’re at it, can we have a class for men who are 76 years old who still have their natural blond hair, shooting a 6GT in an MPA chassis and using a MK5 Leupold scope.

 

[PRS-JohnB]

I have to admit, want a trophy, there are much less expensive ways to get one. (As in go to a trophy shop). The real win is to compete against yourself. Working to get better, working to score a higher percentage. Seeing your improvements and enjoying the ride. True, 80% of us are never going to win, and in the end, having multiple classes, means, for the people who actually win, its an empty victory. Myself, I revel when I exceed my expectations. And yes being a Senior Olympic cyclist, I have a wall full of medals. But, what I remember is not getting a medal, its the day I set a personal best, quickest time and fastest average speed, the day, I made the sharp turn at 40mph on a rain slick road, (scared the shit out of me but i made it) they day, I shot 72% in a match, That’s where the 80% wins

Frankly brother, if you have to have a trophy, you’re in the wrong room.

I know I sound harsh and apologize in advance, but its not the medals, its the memories, its the accomplishements

All this, without the memories of accomplishment is just cloth ribbon and pot medal

View attachment 8632611

Its not the trophy i am worried about...Its the ability to win with the peers of my same level. Trophies are just pieces of metal. Hate me for wanting to know how i stack up against others. Without knowing each of the competitors, it can be hard to judge where you are shooting in comparison to the field.

 

[PRS-JohnB]

You guys should change the name of this post from...

"What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?" to​

"Post a random comment so that everyone can bash your idea"

 

[DM1975]

I agree with having some classification’s but just how many are needed? Are there not enough already? And if someone finds they’re not winning in one of those should they be broken down into even more classifications?

 

[Im2bent]

While we’re at it, can we have a class for men who are 76 years old who still have their natural blond hair, shooting a 6GT in an MPA chassis and using a MK5 Leupold scope.

I believe that's the LGBT class.

 

[PRS-JohnB]

I agree with having some classification’s but just how many are needed? Are there not enough already? And if someone finds they’re not winning in one of those should they be broken down into even more classifications?

Honestly, I think classifications based on skill level mean more than Senior, Lady, Junior. I have seen some lady's and juniors completely dominate competitions. I am good with rifle classes like Gas and Bolt...But I don't see the need for production and sportsman as much as i do break downs in classification of shooter skill.

 

[Rob01]

Rob01, for a moderator, you sure are aggressive. What happened to the reason for this original post? I believe it was started to kick around ideas of how to make the sport better and how to retain non pro shooters who feed the sport. If you guys tonight are the face of PRS, I can see why people leave. You are cutting someone down for trying to come up with ways to make the sport better. I myself am a new shooter who has two matches under my belt. My first I came in about 4 spots from the bottom. This past weekend i came in 25th out of 103. That is a great improvement, but to crack the top 15-20 will take some serious work on my behalf and the hope that one of them is having an off day. I am just looking for ways to find those who are of similar skill level as myself to compete with.

As far as how to break it down, well, lets see...I do believe PRS already has these classifications laid out. That is a good start.
Professional: Top 20%
Semi-Pro: Next 25%
Marksman: Next 25%
Amateur/UnClassed: Remaining 30%

Like i said, I love to shoot and that is what brought me to this sport. But like any athlete in a sport, I am here to compete and not simply shoot my rifle while hanging with other shooters. That part is just a great bonus.

I’m not aggressive at all. I am talking to you truthfully and frankly as someone who has shot this sport for 22 years and seen how more is not always better. Adding all that BS doesn’t do anything but hand out more trophies to make people feel good. You are competing with others of similar skill set already. You just want recognition. You came in 25th. You are a semi pro now. There is your recognition. Why do you need a little piece of metal to feel good about it?

If you love it then do it and don’t worry about trophies. I don’t. Shoot the best you can and have fun. If you put in the work then maybe someday you can get a real trophy.

 

[OREGUN]

You came in 25th at your second ever Pro-series match and you are concerned about the work required to crack the top 20? Dude.
And clean up this sentence so it makes sense:

will take some serious work on my behalf

It’s not work done on your behalf. It’s work done by you, for you.

If it’s your second Pro-Series match, then you aren’t classified yet. Shoot one more and come back next season. You’ll be a semi-pro and you can rank yourself accordingly.

It’s absurd to think that there is time, energy, money, space, or interest in staging separate Pro-Series matches for the different classifications. You want to shoot against new shooters with no champions in the field? Pick a regional match and only go if no one you deem “too good” has signed up. You can bring home all the trophies your heart desires.

 

[PRS-JohnB]

You came in 25th at your second ever Pro-series match and you are concerned about the work required to crack the top 20? Dude.
And clean up this sentence so it makes sense:

It’s not work done on your behalf. It’s work done by you, for you.

If it’s your second Pro-Series match, then you aren’t classified yet. Shoot one more and come back next season. You’ll be a semi-pro and you can rank yourself accordingly.

It’s absurd to think that there is time, energy, money, space, or interest in staging separate Pro-Series matches for the different classifications. You want to shoot against new shooters with no champions in the field? Pick a regional match and only go if no one you deem “too good” has signed up. You can bring home all the trophies your heart desires.

That was a regional match. I have not shot a pro match yet. I don’t know that I am easy for a two day match just yet.

 

[OREGUN]

That was a regional match. I have not shot a pro match yet. I don’t know that I am easy for a two day match just yet.

Well then just how many pros were you shooting against? You are perfectly situated for the competition you are experiencing. In almost all cases, the difference between best shooter at a regional and best shooter at a pro match is astronomical. If Clay or Austin, or the other Austin, or Morgun, or Francis, or Chad, or the other Chad, or Spider-Man, or Dale, Corey, Matt, Keith, or Joe shoot your regional matches…then I’m sorry, you are going to get spanked. For now, focus on doing the work of getting better and you’ll be bringing home hardware before you know it.

 

[hlee]

Using your golf tournament analogy, I’ll ask you, how do you think that those who get to be pros get where they are? By shooting against those that they know they can beat or by playing with the best? Therefore they learn from and get to know the best. If they want to.

Or you can choose to pay for membership in a sanctioning organization of your choice and then you can truly compete score wise with anybody that your goals deem proper for you.

They swing their club until their hands bleed on the driving range, in the bunkers, and around the fringe of the practice greens. They putt from every angle and every distance, for hours a day. Round after round after round of golf, from every corner and nook of every fairway and every bunker. They approach it as a job, with a singular focus that most can’t comprehend.

Except John Daly. He just smokes a carton of Marlboros and down 1/2 a bottle whiskey and he’s in Open form. No finer specimen of the professional athlete exists or has existed. Though, I’m pretty sure he just perfected the training regimen that Babe Ruth invented.

 

[hlee]

Honestly, I think classifications based on skill level mean more than Senior, Lady, Junior. I have seen some lady's and juniors completely dominate competitions. I am good with rifle classes like Gas and Bolt...But I don't see the need for production and sportsman as much as i do break downs in classification of shooter skill.

The classifications used in other shooting disciplines (GM, M, AA, A, B, C, D) work because they have a lot of shooters in the org. There are guys on this board talking about PRS regional events that struggle to get 20-30 shooters regularly. At that point a C class, Super Senior, production shooter is likely shooting against himself.

I had a BJJ instructor that told me a story about finding a “tournament champion” certificate under a dusty pile of papers in his instructor’s office. He asked the instructor “Why don’t you have this hung up on the wall?” The reply was “I was the only one in the division.”

On another note, the “pros” in PRS aren’t really pros. VERY few (if any) are making a living shooting competitions. They’re just regular guys with regular jobs (plumbers, lawyers, IT guys, doctors, etc) that put in the work to shoot well. Sponsors? I’m reminded of a scene from Days of Thunder; “They gave us just enough money to put their name on the car…”

 

[Shoots 700's]

Why would you say its a dummied down devision. Is Senior Class, Ladies Class, Etc dummied down divisions? I am just saying that "most" people who compete in a sport do so to win. That is why high school basketball players don't play against NBA players. they are on different levels. I shoot b/c I love it, but I compete b/c i want to win.

Because they are all just a division, I have plenty of them that doesn’t mean I have won any matches.

I only judge myself where I finish off 1 st place.

 

[sethrrows]

Yea Amateur class. Last year won by a guy getting top 10 at every 2 day and is a pro one year later lol.

People need to stop worrying about cheap hardware. A trophy where you really didn't earn anything means nothing. Focus on getting better. New shooters have enough stuff to worry about and learn as it is.

This is one of the reasons why I don't hand out trophies at our club matches. For some reason it catches a lot of the better shooters off guard the first time they come out with to shoot with us, until I explain our goal with hosting monthly club matches.

Using your golf tournament analogy, I’ll ask you, how do you think that those who get to be pros get where they are? By shooting against those that they know they can beat or by playing with the best? Therefore they learn from and get to know the best. If they want to.

Or you can choose to pay for membership in a sanctioning organization of your choice and then you can truly compete score wise with anybody that your goals deem proper for you.

At club level, at least in our area, I feel the match directors have lost sight of what club matches used to be and should be. Club matches should provide the venue to give new shooters a positive first exposure to the game and the precision rifle community. They should provide the mid pack shooter a place to help peel back the next layer of the "onion". They should provide a venue for experienced to get match reps in to stay consistent. A good club level MD knows how to manage their matches in a way that provides that for each group because to truly grow and progress the sport at the club level you need all three groups to feed off of each other.

For some reason, a lot of the local level MDs want to treat club matches like they are one day PRO matches. Stupid complicated and contrived courses of fire, prize tables, and $100+ entry fees... Then they don't want to hurt feelings by dispersing the field of shooters evenly across the squads, so that shooters of every skill level get something from the day. I think a lot have lost sight or don't know what club matches used to be even just 5 years ago, let alone 10.

Up until last fall, I hadn't hosted a match in 4 years because I was over it, mainly the politics of it. I had enough local shooters twisting my arm to I where I caved and started hosting monthlys again. In NE last November, the PRS only had 11 regional members. Sounds like success.... yet those current MDs want to soapbox and politic in their echo chambers about why sport isn't growing at the local level, why they aren't retaining new shooters, what needs to happen, and so on. Those same MD can not look at what they are doing objectively and want disparage anyone that approaches it for a different angle. This has been my experience in my region, since getting back into it.

 

[sethrrows]

That's what i was saying. Determine parameters around what an "amateur" is and make that a classification. Let Amateurs compete against similar skill shooters so they can duke it out match to match.

That’s been done, and here we are still talking about how it needs to be done differently.

IMO… Instead of adding layers, layers need to be removed and simplified. If you shoot enough matches you’ll figure out who’s in your weight bracket and develop relationships with those people.

To paraphrase something I heard Bryan Morgan say “You’re not completing against the dude that shot the stage two hours earlier or later than you. You’re completing against your gear, your preparation, and the environment.”

I probably butchered that quote, pulling it from memory.

 

[HardRockARC]

I don’t shoot for trophies. I shoot because I like to shoot and to better myself. I got an award at my first high power match for being the second best new guy. I was appreciative for the award and all but still I could have got nothing and been just as happy shooting.

Im shooting for fun, trophies and free gear, just not good enough to win them. 2/3 aint bad lol

 

[PRS-JohnB]

This is one of the reasons why I don't hand out trophies at our club matches. For some reason it catches a lot of the better shooters off guard the first time they come out with to shoot with us, until I explain our goal with hosting monthly club matches.



At club level, at least in our area, I feel the match directors have lost sight of what club matches used to be and should be. Club matches should provide the venue to give new shooters a positive first exposure to the game and the precision rifle community. They should provide the mid pack shooter a place to help peel back the next layer of the "onion". They should provide a venue for experienced to get match reps in to stay consistent. A good club level MD knows how to manage their matches in a way that provides that for each group because to truly grow and progress the sport at the club level you need all three groups to feed off of each other.

For some reason, a lot of the local level MDs want to treat club matches like they are one day PRO matches. Stupid complicated and contrived courses of fire, prize tables, and $100+ entry fees... Then they don't want to hurt feelings by dispersing the field of shooters evenly across the squads, so that shooters of every skill level get something from the day. I think a lot have lost sight or don't know what club matches used to be even just 5 years ago, let alone 10.

Up until last fall, I hadn't hosted a match in 4 years because I was over it, mainly the politics of it. I had enough local shooters twisting my arm to I where I caved and started hosting monthlys again. In NE last November, the PRS only had 11 regional members. Sounds like success.... yet those current MDs want to soapbox and politic in their echo chambers about why sport isn't growing at the local level, why they aren't retaining new shooters, what needs to happen, and so on. Those same MD can not look at what they are doing objectively and want disparage anyone that approaches it for a different angle. This has been my experience in my region, since getting back into it.

I appreciate you writing something other than a bash. I agree with you. My first ever match was a smaller club type match. The MD did not open up squading. He squaded everyone himself. Everyone that day was super nice and helpful to the new guy. That meant more than anything. There is nothing worse than showing up to a match where you don't know anyone, you don't feel like you understand what is going on and just kind of ride out the day. Luckily I have not had that experience.

The more i think through what I was looking for in my original post is not as much getting a trophy. What I want when i go to a match, be it a smaller club match or a regional, is to know who i am competing with and their skill level. As a new shooter, I want to soak up as much "good" info as possible from other shooters. It would be helpful to know when you are looking at your squading info what level shooters are in your squad. if i want to watch someone and how they approach a stage or have a technical question, I want to know that I am asking someone who knows what they are talking about. We all know that the shooting world is full of those who think they know everything and want to show others. I watched a guy at the range about a month ago who was "training" a young lady on how to shoot. He felt compelled to bring out every guy he owned to show her and flex. He had no reason to be putting himself in a position to show anyone anything. If I can look at squading info and it clearly shows who is a pro, semi-pro, marksman, etc, then as i talk to them throughout the day, it makes it easier to watch for BS and when to really pay attention. I tried doing that this weekend and it took me about halfway through the day to figure out who the real shooters in my squad were. It would be equally nice at the end of the day to see where you are ranked and what level of shooters comprise the spots above you and below you so that you can judge where you stand. Some may not understand this, but it is a motivator for me to see where i stand with my peers.

 

[devildog93]

I don't think it's about awards for most. For me it was getting thrown into a competition with a couple pros and several people who were very experienced. This was action pistol. I think they would do better breaking it down and doing just one stage multiple times for new guys. Maybe the new guys come in late or another date. Some stages I just had no way to practice, like the moving targets.

 

[Rob01]

I don't think it's about awards for most. For me it was getting thrown into a competition with a couple pros and several people who were very experienced. This was action pistol. I think they would do better breaking it down and doing just one stage multiple times for new guys. Maybe the new guys come in late or another date. Some stages I just had no way to practice, like the moving targets.

You should consider it a good thing being in a squad with people who know what they are doing. You learn from them. How they move through a stage in ways you wouldn’t think of or what gear is used. A squad of all new guys is a soup sandwich and no one will be better.

Very very few people have moving targets and they are not shot a lot in matches anymore so if you get one then you talk to people about their leads and go shoot and learn. If you want more then you go take a mover class. A match isn’t supposed to be a class.

 

[sethrrows]

If I can look at squading info and it clearly shows who is a pro, semi-pro, marksman, etc, then as i talk to them throughout the day, it makes it easier to watch for BS and when to really pay attention.

You can figure this out by shooting matches regularly and being active in your area. When you do show up ask questions, and pay attention. You’ll figure out pretty quickly who the dudes are. What you’ll most likely find is there is a lot of really good bad shooters out there, and soon as you remove them from the box it shows. This is really true at the regional level, maybe not so much at the upper ends of the PRO level.

Instead of letting bureaucracy determine the designations and the pecking order, which adds layers, confusion, and politics. I think it’s probably best for the club level matches to leave it left up to the individual shooters/MDs to figure this out. As big and popular as everyone thinks the PRS is, it’s still small compared to some of the organizations in other disciplines.

 

[Bgriff008]

I don’t shoot for trophies. I shoot because I like to shoot and to better myself. I got an award at my first high power match for being the second best new guy. I was appreciative for the award and all but still I could have got nothing and been just as happy shooting.

This. ^^^^^^ I shoot to get better and have fun. It’s about challenging myself. Our range actually offers a practice day the day prior to a comp. So you can come out practice and understand the course of fire. It’s open to anyone. I think its great because the range doesn’t have targets set up to practice any day of the week. So at least you can dial in and be more prepared prior to the comp. Two things I’m not a fan of in comps. Group sizes and rotation of the shooters, especially if you shoot first in any stage. The time between your next shoot is too long. No rhythm with over 10 shooters to a group. To much standing around and wait. Every stage should have shooters, but they don’t do that at our comps. I’ve suggested more RO’s to allow for each stage to be shot allowing for smaller groups. Moves things along much quicker. They have yet to move on this.

 

[hlee]

Coming from the shotgun sports- where my son competed for several years- those little letters next to a person’s name in the score sheet mean less than one might expect. It’s entirely possible to punch up on soft local tournaments, then get crushed at nationals. And by the same token, every year there are B and A shooters right there with the masters. If you can’t tell who the shooters are in your squad by the end of the first stage, a letter next to their name isn’t going to be much help.

 

[Bgriff008]

I time out on every stage, and I do not have any excuses about getting up or down.

I just suck at this.

I have only ever shot in a non-PRS sanctioned local-type match 4-5 times in the last 2 years or so. I am still having fun, but I would like to get better at it. The time component is the biggest deal for me. Getting on target and getting stable while on the rung of a ladder or something like that takes me more time than it takes most others shooting the same competition with me. Hopefully more experience will make it better.

Yea getting up and down is a struggle for many. Including me. I’m too slow at those stages and usually time out with 90% of all other shooters. The best shooters still mange to get thru without timing out. For others that time out, they just have a physically hard time getting up and down. Some comps they do try and limit the ups and downs to help most of us out.

 

[DM1975]

This. ^^^^^^ I shoot to get better and have fun. It’s about challenging myself. Our range actually offers a practice day the day prior to a comp. So you can come out practice and understand the course of fire. It’s open to anyone. I think its great because the range doesn’t have targets set up to practice any day of the week. So at least you can dial in and be more prepared prior to the comp. Two things I’m not a fan of in comps. Group sizes and rotation of the shooters, especially if you shoot first in any stage. The time between your next shoot is too long. No rhythm with over 10 shooters to a group. To much standing around and wait. Every stage should have shooters, but they don’t do that at our comps. I’ve suggested more RO’s to allow for each stage to be shot allowing for smaller groups. Moves things along much quicker. They have yet to move on this.

I haven’t shot PRS in quite a while but I know NRL22 matches I’m never just standing around. If I’m not shooting I’m spotting, running the timer, running the tablet, or prepping for the next stage. Plenty of people do just stand around though.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Why would you say its a dummied down devision. Is Senior Class, Ladies Class, Etc dummied down divisions? I am just saying that "most" people who compete in a sport do so to win. That is why high school basketball players don't play against NBA players. they are on different levels. I shoot b/c I love it, but I compete b/c i want to win.

Depending on where you shoot, Yes it is. I have seen guys leave the match after 3 stages and then get a trophy because they were the only gas gun at the match. Senior is super competitive , Lady and junior is as well. All things you were born with and can't change.

Why do new people always come to the sport and try and change shit before they even understand how everything works?

 

[sethrrows]

leave the match after 3 stages and then get a trophy because they were the only gas gun at the match

Make Gas Guns Great Again.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Its not the trophy i am worried about...Its the ability to win with the peers of my same level. Trophies are just pieces of metal. Hate me for wanting to know how i stack up against others. Without knowing each of the competitors, it can be hard to judge where you are shooting in comparison to the field.

How about you go out and practice, get better then try to win some hardware.

Your peers are people unclassed. You haven't even shot a full season to be classified. Worry about getting impacts and limiting mistakes, its going to take you much further than bitching about participation trophies.

If you cant handle shooting without the high probability of winning a trophy before you put in the time and effort to earn one, then don't compete. Matches seem to have no problem filling up fast.

The only person you are competing against is yourself. Stop worrying about everyone else (except learning from them) and worry about getting better.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Well then just how many pros were you shooting against? You are perfectly situated for the competition you are experiencing. In almost all cases, the difference between best shooter at a regional and best shooter at a pro match is astronomical. If Clay or Austin, or the other Austin, or Morgun, or Francis, or Chad, or the other Chad, or Spider-Man, or Dale, Corey, Matt, Keith, or Joe shoot your regional matches…then I’m sorry, you are going to get spanked. For now, focus on doing the work of getting better and you’ll be bringing home hardware before you know it.

Come shoot in the PNW or NE. Not uncommon to have 3-5 guys there who HAVE won national matches, won national and world championships, ect.

You learn WAY more shooting with those guys at a regional match where its more relaxed and you can chat/ask questions then at a pro match where guys are more focused on themselves.

25th at a regional match could be really good or really bad. Just depends on the venue, course of fire and who shows up.

 

[Bgriff008]

I haven’t shot PRS in quite a while but I know NRL22 matches I’m never just standing around. If I’m not shooting I’m spotting, running the timer, running the tablet, or prepping for the next stage. Plenty of people do just stand around though.

Agreed, we all do that. Everyone helps with spotting, timers, scoring. Still too much time between shooting stages. Makes for a longer day than it should be. 4 hours plus to shoot 8 stages. On avg we get 60 plus shooters and it pushes to 5-6 hours. It’s Why I stopped playing golf 15 plus years ago. I’m just saying there is a way to reduce time and they have yet to make it happen.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

That’s been done, and here we are still talking about how it needs to be done differently.

IMO… Instead of adding layers, layers need to be removed and simplified. If you shoot enough matches you’ll figure out who’s in your weight bracket and develop relationships with those people.

To paraphrase something I heard Bryan Morgan say “You’re not completing against the dude that shot the stage two hours earlier or later than you. You’re completing against your gear, your preparation, and the environment.”

I probably butchered that quote, pulling it from memory.

If it was up to me.

Once you place top 20 at 2 day matches for an Amateur, you get bumped to Marksman
Once you place top 10 at 2 day matches as a MKM, you get bumped to Semi Pro
Once you place top 5 at a 2 day match you get bumped to Pro.

If an AM places top 5 at a 2 day, they need go straight to Pro. There is no actual way someone just gets that lucky, especially at a 2 day

All this delayed bullshit waiting for the end of the year just screws over legit competition within divisions. People due to technicalities or whatever shouldn't be taking hardware at every match when they clearly are a different class of shooter.

 

[sethrrows]

If it was up to me.

Once you place top 20 at 2 day matches for an Amateur, you get bumped to Marksman
Once you place top 10 at 2 day matches as a MKM, you get bumped to Semi Pro
Once you place top 5 at a 2 day match you get bumped to Pro.

If an AM places top 5 at a 2 day, they need go straight to Pro. There is no actual way someone just gets that lucky, especially at a 2 day

All this delayed bullshit waiting for the end of the year just screws over legit competition within divisions. People due to technicalities or whatever shouldn't be taking hardware at every match when they clearly are a different class of shooter.

I could get down with this. It’s clear, concise and actionable.

 

[DM1975]

Agreed, we all do that. Everyone helps with spotting, timers, scoring. Still too much time between shooting stages. Makes for a longer day than it should be. 4 hours plus to shoot 8 stages. On avg we get 60 plus shooters and it pushes to 5-6 hours. It’s Why I stopped playing golf 15 plus years ago. I’m just saying there is a way to reduce time and they have yet to make it happen.

If that were always the case. I’ve been to matches before where it’s the same three or four shooters doing all the work while everyone else stands around with their hands in their pockets.

 

[Bgriff008]

If that were always the case. I’ve been to matches before where it’s the same three or four shooters doing all the work while everyone else stands around with their hands in their pockets.

lol. We have guys that step up. So there’s that. But yea we still have a couple that hang back. But there’s always volunteers so no one is bitching about lack of help. The RO issue is a range requirement and they’re funny about who ROs are. Safety concern.

 

[DM1975]

lol. We have guys that step up. So there’s that. But yea we still have a couple that hang back. But there’s always volunteers so no one is bitching about lack of help. The RO issue is a range requirement and they’re funny about who ROs are. Safety concern.

I’m usually constantly spotting, timing, or scoring (I hate scoring) and have had to hand whatever I’m doing over to someone else so I can prep and it’s almost a struggle to get some of these guys to lift a damn finger.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

If there was some magical way to speed up matches and get people out of there faster ...don't ya think the MDs would already be doing it? Best thing you can do is help move things along in your squad and make sure everyone is ready to go when it's their turn to shoot.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

I believe that's the LGBT class.

BOOOOOO. You just wait till your 76 and don’t have any hair and can’t lift a 6GT and laugh then>>>>>>

Now the real joy is actually being able to shoot. The real sadness is that so many people I know, older and YOUNGER are no longer with us. When I was 26 and Brenda was 25, my grandparents who were the age we are now, warned us that our friends would be gone and it would be a very sad day. They knew.

Can’t fix that. But when I can do is celebrate the life I’ve been given, have a great time and give to those who have come after me. How does this pertain to the subject at hand. If I finish last, someone else, undoubtably younger than I am, WON’T! .

 

[Im2bent]

BOOOOOO. You just wait till your 76 and don’t have any hair and can’t lift a 6GT and laugh then>>>>>>

Now the real joy is actually being able to shoot. The real sadness is that so many people I know, older and YOUNGER are no longer with us. When I was 26 and Brenda was 25, my grandparents who were the age we are now, warned us that our friends would be gone and it would be a very sad day. They knew.

Can’t fix that. But when I can do is celebrate the life I’ve been given, have a great time and give to those who have come after me. How does this pertain to the subject at hand. If I finish last, someone else, undoubtably younger than I am, WON’T! .

Not so fast kimosabe ,which is it, you don't have any hair or you still have blonde hair at 76 as your op stated which is what I replied to. And the 6gt is also know as the "gay tiger" round on the hide. So between dying your hair blonde and shooting a gay tiger well......I cannot not resist low hanging fruit. The fact you're still out there getting it done is what matters and you have my full support us old guys gotta stick together.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Not so fast kimosabe ,which is it, you don't have any hair or you still have blonde hair at 76 as your op stated which is what I replied to. And the 6gt is also know as the "gay tiger" round on the hide. So between dying your hair blonde and shooting a gay tiger well......I cannot not resist low hanging fruit. The fact you're still out there getting it done is what matters and you have my full support us old guys gotta stick together.

Only one thing wrong with what you say, my hair is naturally blonde and has been since the day I was born. Never once has a dye or bleach touched my hair. Honest injun. (Can we say injun online?). However, every woman I have ever been associated with has had premature gray. Makes one wonder what the effect I have on women.

Brenda lost her mother the year we got married. So, she kinda got an adopted mother, Ms. Margret Hearne. Ms. Margie passed away at 80 and still had her original black hair. So, its not impossible. (But very improbable) Really liked Ms Margie, her husband, Calvin, fought in Patton’s Third Army and she had tales of days gone by. Even got a trip to the White House to meeti with the second Bush as the First Lady’s father, was also in that unit and the survivors and spouses were honored. Mr. Hearne had passed away.

Get me started and I can really hyjack a thread, and have absolutely no way to tie it into people who want more and more divisions of PRS. Oh, I used to shoot 6.5 Creedmoor so I guess that makes me a double failure .

 

[Bgriff008]

If there was some magical way to speed up matches and get people out of there faster ...don't ya think the MDs would already be doing it? Best thing you can do is help move things along in your squad and make sure everyone is ready to go when it's their turn to shoot.

I already offered up ways to speed it up. The club just hasn’t moved on it. So yes there is a way to speed up matches. Stages not being shot when all stages could be utilized at the same time is slowing the process.

 

[Sheldon N]

@PRS-JohnB

Keep shooting regional matches, try to meet as many guys as you can and make friends, and also make mental notes of where they finish.

Pay attention to your % of winner score. That's your running benchmark that you're trying to improve. If you shoot in the 70%'s, you're getting warmed up. If you're shooting consistently in the 80%'s then you're a serious competitor. If you consistently shoot in the 90%'s range you're going to be winning a match soon.

In the meantime make note of who the people finishing around you are, and try to beat them next time. When I started out there was a guy who always finished just ahead of me. I got better, he got better, I kept chasing him. He eventually won the regional series, a couple years later I finally pulled it off too.

Always keep it fun and friendly, but there are definitely ways to benchmark your performance and progress. Also, find a shooting buddy to practice with when you're not shooting matches. Practice is the key to progress in this game, no way around it.