Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?

It’s simply because my match difficulty or ease doesn’t hinge on how close or far away people shoot a KYL while prone. Why is that hard to understand?

You made an incorrect assumption that since I don’t do that, then my matches are meatball matches.

My invitation to come shoot still stands if you ever wander down in this direction. 👍🏻
Whats your range called? Website? Where can people sign up?
 
Range is Volusia County Gun Club, PRS22 matches are Swampland Precision. Aaron Kincaid runs the centerfire PRS matches.

You can find both on the PRS website with links to sign up through PractiScore or find and sign up using PractiScore.
 
It’s simply because my match difficulty or ease doesn’t hinge on how close or far away people shoot a KYL while prone. Why is that hard to understand?

You made an incorrect assumption that since I don’t do that, then my matches are meatball matches.

My invitation to come shoot still stands if you ever wander down in this direction. 👍🏻

Because a stage which a lot of matches shoot every year and consider a go to stage of a KYL at 50 yards you feel is too challenging. If that’s used as a reference point to how you plan your match then assumptions will be made not just by me. Never called your match a meatball match as that would be a stretch not knowing the other targets/stages being used. I am sure I am not the only one making those assumptions seeing that reference but if your other stages are more difficult and challenging then what is your heartburn with a 50 yard KYL?

ETA Forgot to say thanks for the invite but it’s about 7.5 hour drive so a little far but will keep it in mind.
 
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Because a stage which a lot of matches shoot every year and consider a go to stage of a KYL at 50 yards you feel is too challenging. If that’s used as a reference point to how you plan your match then assumptions will be made not just by me. Never called your match a meatball match as that would be a stretch not knowing the other targets/stages being used. I am sure I am not the only one making those assumptions seeing that reference but if your other stages are more difficult and challenging then what is your heartburn with a 50 yard KYL?
Again, all this started because someone above talked about shooting 1/4” at 50-100 yards. I took exception to that and ever since, you’ve been worrying that point to death. If that’s all you care about and you find that all your matches have that stage, maybe you should change things up a bit and shoot some different matches.

If you care, I also said that I’ve seen people clean the small kyl at 50, so what’s your heartburn all about? Trying to make me say something else that you can create drama about? The heartburn you speak of is solely a creation of your personal gnawing on this one inconsequential issue.

I suggest you go back and read all my posts in this thread, many of which you “liked”. I clearly talk about my approach to matches a number of times.
 
Again, all this started because someone above talked about shooting 1/4” at 50-100 yards. I took exception to that and ever since, you’ve been worrying that point to death. If that’s all you care about and you find that all your matches have that stage, maybe you should change things up a bit and shoot some different matches.

If you care, I also said that I’ve seen people clean the small kyl at 50, so what’s your heartburn all about? Trying to make me say something else that you can create drama about? The heartburn you speak of is solely a creation of your personal gnawing on this one inconsequential issue.

I suggest you go back and read all my posts in this thread, many of which you “liked”. I clearly talk about my approach to matches a number of times.

Not at all my major concern in a match but obviously some heartburn for you so will just let it die out.
 
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well blame me for this argument. cause i've put an 8 target KYL at 80y with 2" to 1/4", and the standard 4 shot 1"-1/4" at 65y

just the first old COF i pulled up. but i'd be willing to bet they were cleaned by at least one person
 
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After reading some of the last few posts.....I think I saw a 1/4" kyl target no further than 60 or 65yds in the many years of doing NRL22. And it definitely wasn't a hit to advance type target.

I did see one as part of like a 110 - 120yd 15 plate kyl rack at a NRL22X or outlaw (can't remember which)....something like 4" going down to 1/4" or some such crap. Hit to advance. 1 guy cleaned. 2 missed one, many missed only 2 or 3 plates. Only a very few missed 5 or more. Wind was definitely there. Nobody bitched as you had a ton of shooting to wind the last couple of hard ones. And missing 3 or 4 out of 15 was hardly cause for heartburn on 12 stage event.

I think you guys are making mountains out of mole hills just a smidge. The traditional 4 plate kyl or the 1/4" plate being placed at a ridiculous yardage just doesn't happen with any kind of regularity. And if it did happen....we ALL would have the common sense to look at it for the oddity/circus stunt/challenge that it is. And sure enough, it wouldn't be seen again any time soon. Especially if people did bitch about it.
 
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Just so we are all on the same page, a KYL isn't a KYL unless its a quit when you want and keep your points or miss and score"0"

Let's Pretend this is a KYL, take our score and move on to the next stage.

Lash, it's a far piece from our son's home in Valparaiso but maybe we can gather up Brenda and Will III and I can shoot and then combine it with something she wants. (and dang it, if she would; she would be a contender for the ladies trophy, if her hip gets back, up to the task.). She’s a darn fine shot, International Class in Small Bore IHMSA and always brings home dinner when she goes into the squirrel woods with her .22 rifle.
 
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Just so we are all on the same page, a KYL isn't a KYL unless its a quit when you want and keep your points or miss and score"0"

Let's Pretend this is a KYL, take our score and move on to the next stage.

Lash, it's a far piece from our son's home in Valparaiso but maybe we can gather up Brenda and Will III and I can shoot and then combine it with something she wants. (and dang it, if she would; she would be a contender for the ladies trophy, if her hip gets back, up to the task.). She’s a darn fine shot, International Class in Small Bore IHMSA and always brings home dinner when she goes into the squirrel woods with her .22 rifle.

They stopped doing those kind or KYL years ago when people started crying about losing points. Started taking the strategy out of the match.
 
I quit shooting PRS years ago and haven’t shot NRL22 in a couple years now. Mostly because of cost but also because I feel there’s a lack of community to it. For people who live near a range that has these competitions that might not be so much the case, but until just the last few years for me I had to source my own land to practice on and had to do it 110% on my own.

Build the sport into more of a community with local chapters where you can have monthly get togethers other than for competition to mentor, pass on information, and give a sense of belonging. Make that the experience and the matches the final destination.

You could have it where memebers get together monthly and do dry fire clinics, teach classes, shoot for fun and experience even at reduced ranges or with 22’s, and have others there that can help guide them that aren’t focused on winning a match. This is where growth and innovation can happen the most I think. Plus it gives the people interested in it that are hours away from a suitable range a place to get their feet wet and learn something without having to drive for hours just to get little or nothing out of the experience.

If you want growth then get people involved like that and they’ll grow it for you. I always hear of local shooting clubs but I never have been involved with one where it felt like a real club or community. At least nowhere that I’ve ever lived.
 
They stopped doing those kind or KYL years ago when people started crying about losing points. Started taking the strategy out of the match.
Not exactly, shoot one two weeks ago. Outlaw match at Altus. Last year, center hit the first rack, easy for the second right, I’m surprized the round landed on the planet Earth. Points “0” Shot it two weeks ago, got a score and quit.

There’s some talk around that a true KYL needs to come back. Winning and loosing is not about just winning. To me, it’s about taking chances to get to the win. If it’s a guarantee, what’s the point? Just go to the damned trophy shop and purchase the another attic dwelling piece of wood and plastic.

(There I go, another one of those dreaded four letter words. I’m corrupted for sure)
 
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Not exactly, shoot one two weeks ago. Outlaw match at Altus. Last year, center hit the first rack, easy for the second right, I’m surprized the round landed on the planet Earth. Points “0” Shot it two weeks ago, got a score and quit.

There’s some talk around that a true KYL needs to come back. Winning and loosing is not about just winning. To me, it’s about taking chances to get to the win. If it’s a guarantee, what’s the point? Just go to the damned trophy shop and purchase the another attic dwelling piece of wood and plastic.

(There I go, another one of those dreaded four letter words. I’m corrupted for sure)

Keyword “outlaw”. 😉
 
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Keyword “outlaw”. 😉
II agree. Pushing the envelope. Apparently from the opinions being expressed here, it needs to be pushed.

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II agree. Pushing the envelope. Apparently from the opinions being expressed here, it needs to be pushed.

I am fine with the KYal being what it was intended. I hated when the PRS changed it. It used to be a good part of matches and made people think how to play it. Most times I only went to the line with 2 maybe 3 rounds so I wouldn’t lose points.
 
Can the drama be imagined if at the AG cup, the KYL rack was a true KYL stage and it was the last stage and these men were shooting it for $20,000. Talk about television appeal. And if the score ties, they have to shoot it again. Similar but not quite the same as the tie breaker of the three way tie a couple of years back.

You have a two point lead, how do you shoot the KYL, take the chance or play it safe. The real money says, go for it because the fellow two shots behind is going for it. And he’s got the fellow one shot behind him, going for it.
 
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Can the drama be imagined if at the AG cup, the KYL rack was a true KYL stage and it was the last stage and these men were shooting it for $20,000. Talk about television appeal. And if the score ties, they have to shoot it again. Similar but not quite the same as the tie breaker of the three way tie a couple of years back.

You have a two point lead, how do you shoot the KYL, take the chance or play it safe. The real money says, go for it because the fellow two shots behind is going for it. And he’s got the fellow one shot behind him, going for it.
I suppose that’s why they call it a competition. :)
 
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Can the drama be imagined if at the AG cup, the KYL rack was a true KYL stage and it was the last stage and these men were shooting it for $20,000. Talk about television appeal. And if the score ties, they have to shoot it again. Similar but not quite the same as the tie breaker of the three way tie a couple of years back.

You have a two point lead, how do you shoot the KYL, take the chance or play it safe. The real money says, go for it because the fellow two shots behind is going for it. And he’s got the fellow one shot behind him, going for it.

That’s part of the game. Lol
 
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Funny, Im reading another thread about this and the point is this. How does a new shooter even know what they need? Where to go? What caliber? What bag? You say just show up and shoot, but what fun is it when the course of fire is so hard because its tailored to open and pros? My first couple matches I was so discouraged, maybe hit 30/100. But guys in my squad with 25lb MPAs were cleaning every stage. Is it me? Is it my rifle? My gear? I think squadding also plays a lot into it too. I personally try to squad with gas gun and production or tac class guys. We all tend to shoot around the same and have fun helping each other out.
I’ve just accepted that I will only be just average when shooting PRS. I don’t practice enough to get any better or faster. I actually just sold my MPA chassis because it wasn’t making me any better and due to the weight it sure wasn’t making me any faster. I went back to my original stock which is lighter. It’s just easier to move with on those stages that require moving. And then there are just some stages that I’m just not good at, that I def need more reps with. Again, I don’t practice enough. Our club actually offers practice days before matches which I would def benefit from, but spending 3-4 hours on Saturday before the 3-4 hour match on Sunday just doesn’t bode well. Matches are already too long, with too much time between shooting. Can’t get into any groove. If only they had someone shooting each stage could they speed things up. But they don’t.
 
I quit shooting PRS years ago and haven’t shot NRL22 in a couple years now. Mostly because of cost but also because I feel there’s a lack of community to it. For people who live near a range that has these competitions that might not be so much the case, but until just the last few years for me I had to source my own land to practice on and had to do it 110% on my own.

Build the sport into more of a community with local chapters where you can have monthly get togethers other than for competition to mentor, pass on information, and give a sense of belonging. Make that the experience and the matches the final destination.

You could have it where memebers get together monthly and do dry fire clinics, teach classes, shoot for fun and experience even at reduced ranges or with 22’s, and have others there that can help guide them that aren’t focused on winning a match. This is where growth and innovation can happen the most I think. Plus it gives the people interested in it that are hours away from a suitable range a place to get their feet wet and learn something without having to drive for hours just to get little or nothing out of the experience.

If you want growth then get people involved like that and they’ll grow it for you. I always hear of local shooting clubs but I never have been involved with one where it felt like a real club or community. At least nowhere that I’ve ever lived.
I’ve got a group mostly drawn from a rural church congregation that shoots on one of the farmers’ land. The kids and their parents are constantly asking when the next shoot is. A lot more rewarding that most far away match weekends.
 
For anyone who does not know what it takes or what is needed to participate in a PRS or NRL match, the answer is so simple.

Take a Class!

Lots of classes are available nationwide. @Lowlight and @RobertB are both here and both are excellent teachers, and there are plenty more also around Snipershide. A good class will get you well on your way to get the knowlege you need.
 
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I’ve got a group mostly drawn from a rural church congregation that shoots on one of the farmers’ land. The kids and their parents are constantly asking when the next shoot is. A lot more rewarding that most far away match weekends.
I’ve been thinking about starting something similar up here. The local range just started hosting NRL22 so I might go poach some people there one of these days.
 
I’ve been thinking about starting something similar up here. The local range just started hosting NRL22 so I might go poach some people there one of these days.
The biggest challenge is convincing folks to pay $400+ for an FFP optic. Lots of hunters in my crowd who have hunting opportunities out to 600+ regularly; but they need to be “born again” as precision shooters for full buy in. Watching my 12 yr old banging steel at 300 with a Savage 22 using my verbal holdovers helps.
 
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The biggest challenge is convincing folks to pay $400+ for an FFP optic. Lots of hunters in my crowd who have hunting opportunities out to 600+ regularly; but they need to be “born again” as precision shooters for full buy in. Watching my 12 yr old banging steel at 300 with a Savage 22 using my verbal holdovers helps.
I have a 15 year old daughter to help with that. She’s pretty good with the Ruger precision rimfire on a 2” steel at 200 yards. Planning on pushing her out to 300 soon. Got her milling targets now too.
 
Still a time issue for me. timing out on almost every stage and only shooting 60% of a match sucks. the last match I shot my squad was full of fairly new shooters and they all timed out.

it kinda feels like if you went to play golf and had to stop playing each hole once you reached par. not playing the entire hole regardless of how terrible your score is would suck.
This exactly. Timing out sucks and takes a way from being able to shoot all your ammo. As for mentioning golf, shooters need to have handicaps. And this handicap is to allow for more time to shoot stages, so there are less time outs. 90 seconds for some of the more difficult stages when moving and only getting off 3-4 shots is awful.
 
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This exactly. Timing out sucks and takes a way from being able to shoot all your ammo. As for mentioning golf, shooters need to have handicaps. And this handicap is to allow for more time to shoot stages, so there are less time outs. 90 seconds for some of the more difficult stages when moving and only getting off 3-4 shots is awful.
I time out on a lot of stages, getting up and down just does not work like it used to 30 years ago. but there are ways to help. My biggest time saver is the Grayops mini plate, shemedicum bag and bra. My gamechanger is the most stable bag I hae ever shot off of. However, picking up myself, picking up the rifle and then stabilizing it and then picking up the gamechanger takes time. then getting to the next shooting area, the gamechanger has to be placed and basically flattened to properly support the rifle. With the mini plate and the Shemedium bag, most of this is eliminated. Get up, get the rifle, move to the next area, plop the rifle down aimed in the general direction fo the target and get to shooting.

shown with my Vudoo but works just as well with Centerfire.

IMG_4010.jpeg
 
I time out on a lot of stages, getting up and down just does not work like it used to 30 years ago. but there are ways to help. My biggest time saver is the Grayops mini plate, shemedicum bag and bra. My gamechanger is the most stable bag I hae ever shot off of. However, picking up myself, picking up the rifle and then stabilizing it and then picking up the gamechanger takes time. then getting to the next shooting area, the gamechanger has to be placed and basically flattened to properly support the rifle. With the mini plate and the Shemedium bag, most of this is eliminated. Get up, get the rifle, move to the next area, plop the rifle down aimed in the general direction fo the target and get to shooting.

shown with my Vudoo but works just as well with Centerfire.

View attachment 8557244
Agreed. It would help if my bag was affixed to my plate so it all moves as one. But like you, some of the getting up and down sucks. Mostly because I don’t practice to know what movements work best for me.
 
Safety is never excessive. You have to open the bolt to chamber another round so leave it open. Leaving the bolt down leaves question if the rifle is loaded or not. Bolt up then it’s not.
Yea I get that. And it’s become more natural to do so as you shoot more. But at first it was just natural to move after that shot, get set then open and close the bolt.
 
Yea I get that. And it’s become more natural to do so as you shoot more. But at first it was just natural to move after that shot, get set then open and close the bolt.

May be natural for you but not for everyone. The more matches you shoot the more you will learn.
 
May be natural for you but not for everyone. The more matches you shoot the more you will learn.
No, I was saying as I’ve shot more matches, opening the bolt has become more natural before moving. But that wasn’t what felt natural to begin with. It’s like anything, repetition is required. Can’t think any newbie felt natural in opening the bolt before movement. It’s a learned repetition.
 
Agreed. It would help if my bag was affixed to my plate so it all moves as one. But like you, some of the getting up and down sucks. Mostly because I don’t practice to know what movements work best for me.
My one advantage in this world. Being retired and having the time available, I can practice fire and movement. I’m not without errors. But practice helps. I take videos and actually showed one to my med professional last year. Being somewhat embarrassed, I pronounced that I looked like a seventy-five year old man. To which he replied…YOU ARE A SEVENTY-FIVE YEAR OLD MAN! Everyone but me, got a good chuckle out of it. I’ve since gained an actual year and I refuse to be Old.

I actually have another advantage that both the doctor and my wife both seem to agree on, I have been blessed with excellent health and vitality for a fellow of my age. I give thanks everyday to GOD for this blessing.

(I often wonder if being the biggest asshole in the state of Louisiana helps? :D ).
 
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I time out on a lot of stages, getting up and down just does not work like it used to 30 years ago. but there are ways to help. My biggest time saver is the Grayops mini plate, shemedicum bag and bra. My gamechanger is the most stable bag I hae ever shot off of. However, picking up myself, picking up the rifle and then stabilizing it and then picking up the gamechanger takes time. then getting to the next shooting area, the gamechanger has to be placed and basically flattened to properly support the rifle. With the mini plate and the Shemedium bag, most of this is eliminated. Get up, get the rifle, move to the next area, plop the rifle down aimed in the general direction fo the target and get to shooting.

shown with my Vudoo but works just as well with Centerfire.

View attachment 8557244
This has become a big problem for me. My knees just keep getting worse and I can get down in the positions somewhat ok, but getting up from them takes a whole lot of time and effort now.
 
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Since we have fallen into the issues regarding older shooters, I ran across these quotes

Truman Copote
Life is a moderately good play with a badly written third act.

Andy Rooney
Its paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn’t appeal to anyone.

Groucho Marx
Anyone can get old. All you have to do is live long enough.

And my Favorite

Henry David Throueau
No one is as old as those who have outlived enthusiasm.


Lose your enthusiasm and you’ve lost no matter how well you place
 
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Since we have fallen into the issues regarding older shooters, I ran across these quotes

Truman Copote
Life is a moderately good play with a badly written third act.

Andy Rooney
Its paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn’t appeal to anyone.

Groucho Marx
Anyone can get old. All you have to do is live long enough.

And my Favorite

Henry David Throueau
No one is as old as those who have outlived enthusiasm.


Lose your enthusiasm and you’ve lost no matter how well you place
This is the most out of touch boomer answer I’ve ever read. “Look at me, I’m so smart” hahahaha
 
I time out on a lot of stages, getting up and down just does not work like it used to 30 years ago. but there are ways to help. My biggest time saver is the Grayops mini plate, shemedicum bag and bra. My gamechanger is the most stable bag I hae ever shot off of. However, picking up myself, picking up the rifle and then stabilizing it and then picking up the gamechanger takes time. then getting to the next shooting area, the gamechanger has to be placed and basically flattened to properly support the rifle. With the mini plate and the Shemedium bag, most of this is eliminated. Get up, get the rifle, move to the next area, plop the rifle down aimed in the general direction fo the target and get to shooting.

shown with my Vudoo but works just as well with Centerfire.

View attachment 8557244

I time out on every stage, and I do not have any excuses about getting up or down.

I just suck at this.

I have only ever shot in a non-PRS sanctioned local-type match 4-5 times in the last 2 years or so. I am still having fun, but I would like to get better at it. The time component is the biggest deal for me. Getting on target and getting stable while on the rung of a ladder or something like that takes me more time than it takes most others shooting the same competition with me. Hopefully more experience will make it better.
 
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I time out on every stage, and I do not have any excuses about getting up or down.

I just suck at this.

I have only ever shot in a non-PRS sanctioned local-type match 4-5 times in the last 2 years or so. I am still having fun, but I would like to get better at it. The time component is the biggest deal for me. Getting on target and getting stable while on the rung of a ladder or something like that takes me more time than it takes most others shooting the same competition with me. Hopefully more experience will make it better.
I would either time out or rush through a stage and end with 30 seconds on the clock. The two best investments I made were the MDT crush it timer and send it level. I setup the timer to give me alerts at certain time points and it really helped tell me to speed up or slow down. I saw 20% increase in hits utilizing both items.