Port strike coming… not going to be good!

#151
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Well they should have made better choices. I mean it sucks but they should have learned skills and knowledge that people want to pay for.
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I've seen some really stooooid shit posted before but this has now surpassed even the Felipe bullshit. I deleted everything after this because it was garbage salad.

So people in other professions should have made better choices but these forklift monkeys shouldn't have to find another profession that pays better? I'd like to hear you explain that fucked up logic.

And then you post this jewel. Unfucking believable.
I'm impressed with your tenacity. In about every thread you post in you show your ass but you keep coming back.
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Gota draw a line somewhere.
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2ovzic.jpg
 
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#152
Terry Cross said:
Well shit.
I got really upset. I thought this thread was titled Pork Strike coming.

I just ran to Sam's Club and bought 4 cases of bacon and 3 cases of Jimmy Dean's sausage.

I can hunker down with toilet paper and other stuff running low because of a port strike but bacon is non-negotiable.
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I'm with you brother. If I don't have bacon and sausage with breakfast I'm not a nice person.
 
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#158
DeathBeforeDismount said:
This is retarded talk.

A. The ATC were federal employees
B. There was a massive trained force of military ATC during cold war that were used as a stop gap.

You aren't putting some non trained idiot in charge of unloading hundreds of millions of product from a ship with 20k cans on it.
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This is a retarded response showing ignorance of the Taft-Hartley act and how it works. Try reading, it helps.
 
#159
n2ishun said:
Wasn't all that long ago when the west coast longshoremen did the same.
I have personally witnessed the long lines of ships off the SoCal coast.

It looked kinda like this......but on a massive scale that a person has trouble comprehending.
Imagine this view amplified X 1000........

View attachment 8514958
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Great. Now I'll never get my Walmart Body Bags.
 
#160
Soulezoo said:
This is a retarded response showing ignorance of the Taft-Hartley act and how it works. Try reading, it helps.
Click to expand...
Soulezoo said:
This is a retarded response showing ignorance of the Taft-Hartley act and how it works. Try reading, it helps.
Click to expand...
You have no idea what you are talking about. The strike can be rulled illegal in which case they force workers back as their jobs will not be protected ( and they will slow roll like a mfer) or they will replace them with scabs in which case the delays will go on for months and grind the country to a halt. Either way the gov doesn't have shit for options...legally or realistically. You can't force people to work and there is no ready replacement labor pool out there. And even if there was...good luck making it through the lines. Those dudes have ran the docks for 150 years.


Game
Set
Blouses
 
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#161
EddieNFL said:
Again, it seems the drop in the bucket would be the smart move. Are the owners attempting to follow the congressional business model? At the end of the day, they don’t even cover the drop.
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Owners are foreign business interests who don't care about how it effects the US economy. The loss is "temporary" becuase when things resume and all costs will be beared by importers, exporters, warehouses ect...not to mention suffering of US citizen.

All ships coming into a US port should have to be up to US coast guard standards including maintained as well as crew training and currency. It's a massive national security risk letting these fuckers knock down our bridges and choke commerce. We ( the us) should dictate terms...not these 3rd world oligarchs.

If they want our market they need to play by fair rules...which we decide.
 
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#162
P-Squared said:
And as far as foreign ownership of the ports, how about eminent domain? Would that be possible?

The rebuild them with the necessary automation to streamline the operations and just like that, the greedy go they way of the $20/hr McDonald's worker when they get replaced by a kiosk.

Just spitballin' here.
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We sold them to foreign interests.....our leaders let it happen due to greed. Like they sold out the rest of the country......but to dick sucker's and mental midgets here....the longshoremen are the bag guys... L. O. FUCKING L
 
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#163
DeathBeforeDismount said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. The strike can be rulled illegal in which case they force workers back as their jobs will not be protected ( and they will slow roll like a mfer) or they will replace them with scabs in which case the delays will go on for months and grind the country to a halt. Either way the gov doesn't have shit for options...legally or realistically. You can't force people to work and there is no ready replacement labor pool out there. And even if there was...good luck making it through the lines. Those dudes have ran the docks for 150 years.


Game
Set
Blouses
Click to expand...
The Taft-Hartley Act doesn't rule a strike illegal, of course. Just mandates a 90 day "cooling off period" where the old contract is extended and the parties must negotiate. Everyone knows that, right?
 
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#165
Downtown said:
The Taft-Hartley Act doesn't rule a strike illegal, of course. Just mandates a 90 day "cooling off period" where the old contract is extended and the parties must negotiate. Everyone knows that, right?
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One of the provisions states what is a legal and illegal strike. An illegal strike does not grant them protection from NLRB. The cooling off period does nothing. You can't force people to be productive or sign a deal they are willing to walk away from.

Not to be a smart ass but labor law was part of my job from 2015-2022. Both public sector and private unions and helping to negotiate CBAs for the agency from management side.

And it's 80 days not 90.
 
#166
DeathBeforeDismount said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. The strike can be rulled illegal in which case they force workers back as their jobs will not be protected ( and they will slow roll like a mfer) or they will replace them with scabs in which case the delays will go on for months and grind the country to a halt. Either way the gov doesn't have shit for options...legally or realistically. You can't force people to work and there is no ready replacement labor pool out there. And even if there was...good luck making it through the lines. Those dudes have ran the docks for 150 years.


Game
Set
Blouses
Click to expand...

I'm very, very sure I could replace the $100/hr crane worker that unloads the container ship.

Climb into the cab, sit down. Push forward on the control stick. Down for down, clamp/unclamp, up, back and left or right.
Seems like running a 6k boom forklift is more complicated.
 
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#169
Mike Casselton said:
I'm very, very sure I could replace the $100/hr crane worker that unloads the container ship.

Climb into the cab, sit down. Push forward on the control stick. Down for down, clamp/unclamp, up, back and left or right.
Seems like running a 6k boom forklift is more complicated.
Click to expand...
Ignorance is bliss. Dunning- Kruger at work here folks.

No one is letting some retarded risk tens of millions in product just like they aren't letting some retard jump into a tower crane and lift curtain walls over populated areas.
 
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#170
Pretty much the same as the Claw Machine at Main Event.

🤣

That said, if your job can be automated, it will be automated. The only thing keeping the company from automating your job is that you are cheaper. Once that calculus is reversed; robots don’t call in sick, go on strike, bitch about shift work, or any of the myriad other things that makes managing humans a nightmare.

And, increased costs of doing business are almost never absorbed by the company; they are passed on to the consumer. Don’t kid yourself, the CEOs and owners are still going to get their bonuses.
 
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#171
We recently automated one of our jobs, requires a babysitter for the 5.5hrs required to run the task. The robot has parameters that must be acknowledged, otherwise it's just taking up floor space, wasting time and bandwwidth. All in the name of eliminating repetitive motion injuries, I have been doing that job in an average of 4hrs almost daily for 29yrs and guess what, no repetitive injuries suffered. Now I can do it while sitting in a chair, cable for the touch screen controller are long enough, I am pretty sure I can do it laying down. 🤣
 
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#174
DeathBeforeDismount said:
The western US longshore union caved and let industry automate most of them out of jobs. That's the lesson the ILA is trying to not repeate. All that west coast shipping and port money's now going straight to China and Asia. Money being sucked out of the US economy.

Who are you to decide what's fair to pay someone? Is it coming out of your pocket? Do you know the finances? Have any idea what the fully loaded labor cost is for the workers?

Again they are still operating on 2018 wages. Everyone got huge wage increases since then ( if you didn't then you suck at your job and negotiating, or were locked in a labor agreement). This takes into account the last 5 years of unprecedented wage growth along with projected inflation.....you think lowering interest rates and pumping more money into the economy will sniffle inflation? LoL.

I honestly hope they shut the country down and get everything they ask for and more. The people who litterly run this country ( power grid, sewage, trucking, shipping, farmers, construction, mining, ect) need to remind the masses how fragile this society really is and who not to fuck with. Any one of them can grind this train to a halt.
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I’m curious. In your mind, what is considered a huge wage increase? And how many people across the board do you think got huge wage increases?

rjacobs said:
Its hard for me to fathom that 39-50 bucks an hour is considered a "high wage" today.

I think the 77% is a reach personally, but hey, dream big. Cause if you go in to negotiations and lay out your real number you are willing to settle for you will end up with 10% less, at least.
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Sadly, $39-$50 an hour these days is what I’d consider avg pay even on some of the best cost of living areas in the country. I think I read somewhere that you got to pull $130,000 minimum to be considered middle class now, per individual, even in some of the most rural places, historically lower cost of living areas!
 
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#175
DeathBeforeDismount said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. The strike can be rulled illegal in which case they force workers back as their jobs will not be protected ( and they will slow roll like a mfer) or they will replace them with scabs in which case the delays will go on for months and grind the country to a halt. Either way the gov doesn't have shit for options...legally or realistically. You can't force people to work and there is no ready replacement labor pool out there. And even if there was...good luck making it through the lines. Those dudes have ran the docks for 150 years.


Game
Set
Blouses
Click to expand...
Once again, you fail to learn and your ignorance is overwhelming. Cognitive dissonance much? You have ADHD and can't remember last week's dinner?

It was just two years ago that Biden intervened in the railroad strike. But he can't do the same here?

Or you're just another butt munch. There's that too.
 
#177
Mike Casselton said:
I'm very, very sure I could replace the $100/hr crane worker that unloads the container ship.

Climb into the cab, sit down. Push forward on the control stick. Down for down, clamp/unclamp, up, back and left or right.
Seems like running a 6k boom forklift is more complicated.
Click to expand...
Perhaps for less that $100/hr, sure. As a career crane operator and crane supervisor, not all bums in seats are equal. Kind of like how not all pilots are equal. Even many of the ones who try hard fall short. One fuck up and a career can be done, to say nothing of the poor flat fucker that got squeezed.
 
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#178
Soulezoo said:
Once again, you fail to learn and your ignorance is overwhelming. Cognitive dissonance much? You have ADHD and can't remember last week's dinner?

It was just two years ago that Biden intervened in the railroad strike. But he can't do the same here?

Or you're just another butt munch. There's that too.
Click to expand...
Sorry I won't explain it a 3rd time for you. You cannot fix stupid.
 
#179
DeathBeforeDismount said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. The strike can be rulled illegal in which case they force workers back as their jobs will not be protected ( and they will slow roll like a mfer) or they will replace them with scabs in which case the delays will go on for months and grind the country to a halt. Either way the gov doesn't have shit for options...legally or realistically. You can't force people to work and there is no ready replacement labor pool out there. And even if there was...good luck making it through the lines. Those dudes have ran the docks for 150 years.


Game
Set
Blouses
Click to expand...
Everyone is replaceable
 
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#180
SilentStalkr said:
I’m curious. In your mind, what is considered a huge wage increase? And how many people across the board do you think got huge wage increases?


Sadly, $39-$50 an hour these days is what I’d consider avg pay even on some of the best cost of living areas in the country. I think I read somewhere that you got to pull $130,000 minimum to be considered middle class now, per individual, even in some of the most rural places, historically lower cost of living areas!
Click to expand...
Most of that stuff about middle class requiring $130k is just doomer stuff trying to get clicks.

Median household income is around $50k for the US (~25/hr). In New York, it's $57k (~28.50/hr).

$50/hr is almost double the income of a median household in the US. Household, not individual.

$130k is the median income for a family of 4 in NYC. Far from 130k per individual.
 
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#181
The_Steward said:
Most of that stuff about middle class requiring $130k is just doomer stuff trying to get clicks.

Median household income is around $50k for the US (~25/hr). In New York, it's $57k (~28.50/hr).

$50/hr is almost double the income of a median household in the US. Household, not individual.

$130k is the median income for a family of 4 in NYC. Far from 130k per individual.
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Guess I’m doing alright after all!
 
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#182
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Ignorance is bliss. Dunning- Kruger at work here folks.

No one is letting some retarded risk tens of millions in product just like they aren't letting some retard jump into a tower crane and lift curtain walls over populated areas.
Click to expand...

Who the hell said anything about curtain walls and populated areas?
NYC much?

Running a crane at a port isn't very difficult. It takes a lot more brains to operate cranes that lift shit on to buildings where the operator has to factor in boom angle, lift height and the weight of the load.
We see images all the time where they fuck up.

If there's a fuckup at a port unloading containers, it isn't because someone didn't do their math properly. It's most likely caused by bad latches, weak flooring or rust on the container.




You should really stick to the subject you've been defending instead of deflecting to try and prove your point.
 
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#183
I was talking to a customer about this yesterday and both of our go-forward options. The decision was made that even though there was an entire run of material on the water headed here just go ahead and buy what’s currently available as it will all get used anyway. Here’s the kicker: prices had started going up in anticipation of his well over a week ago. Mind you this is raw material.

The west coast is going to jam up, the Panama Canal is a no-go as it will jam up more. We were advised to ship to Canada or Mexico and drive it in, with the understanding that the longer this goes the more congested that will become as well.
 
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#185
The main issue I have with the premise of unions (and strike type events) is that, by nature, it is about the collective and not the individual. The collective is forced to do something whether they truly want to or not. The collective reaps the benefits of a negotiated labor contract whether the collective deserves it or not.

Many of the people in this longshoremen’s strike likely deserve a robust salary increase. If I can agree to that, can we also agree that many do not deserve the same salary increase?

As someone who has worked in commercial and industrial construction for over 25 years, I’ve dealt a lot with unions (usually ironworkers). Some of the ironworkers I’ve dealt with are worth their weight in gold…..but some aren’t worth a dime…..yet those who don’t measure up to the standard reap the same benefit as those who do more than their fair share and take pride in their work. THAT’S my rub with unions. To make matters worse, the union typically runs interference for the “lesser” members simply because they are members of the union. I’ve had amazing experiences and less than stellar experiences…..yet they are all compensated the same, which in my book, isn’t the way it should be.

Additionally, many (not all) unions are bloated and inefficient. This is an hypothetical, but why does a port need 1,000 longshoremen, when it can run efficiently and safely with 900? If you think unions don’t want more people on their roles simply for more leverage and more money/dues, you are crazy. Obviously, longshoremen are necessary and important parts of our supply structure…..but are ALL longshoremen necessary? This again is a rub I have with unions (as a general statement).

I think the country would be far more understanding of the “plight of the longshoremen” if the union could agree that A) not all longshoremen are equal and B) not all longshoremen on their roles are necessary. Longshoreman #1 might be worth the 70% salary increase, but you can’t tell me that Longshoreman #44,900 is.
 
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#186
Darryle said:
We recently automated one of our jobs, requires a babysitter for the 5.5hrs required to run the task. The robot has parameters that must be acknowledged, otherwise it's just taking up floor space, wasting time and bandwwidth. All in the name of eliminating repetitive motion injuries, I have been doing that job in an average of 4hrs almost daily for 29yrs and guess what, no repetitive injuries suffered. Now I can do it while sitting in a chair, cable for the touch screen controller are long enough, I am pretty sure I can do it laying down. 🤣
Click to expand...
You will know when you have it REAL good when you can do it in your sleep.
 
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#188
Jethro3898 said:
The main issue I have with the premise of unions (and strike type events) is that, by nature, it is about the collective and not the individual. The collective is forced to do something whether they truly want to or not.



Additionally, many (not all) unions are bloated and inefficient. This is an hypothetical, but why does a port need 1,000 longshoremen, when it can run efficiently and safely with 900? If you think unions don’t want more people on their roles simply for more leverage and more money/dues, you are crazy. Obviously, longshoremen are necessary and important parts of our supply structure…..but are ALL longshoremen necessary? This again is a rub I have with unions (as a general statement).
Click to expand...

I will only address these 2 points.

Unions take strike votes far in advance of an actual strike. I have searched for when the ILA took theirs, but ive given up after about 10 minutes. Only one I can find is the Canadian arm of the ILA took a strike authorization vote in 2023 and over 99% voted to strike. When my union took our strike authorization vote it was like 99.8%. So in both cases 99%+ of the members said "if you call a strike, I will support it"... Again, I cant find when or what the outcome was of the ILA's strike vote, but I am sure they took one and I bet it was substantially in the yes category.

As to staffing... that is "generally" up to the company unless something in the union contract stipulates certain things like minimum staffing. "generally" contractual minimum staffing is data backed to "what can we safely/efficiently do with x number of folks per". Sure the union wants more, but if the x is say 10, based on historic data on efficient operation and safety, and the union wants 20, thats a big ask. If the union wants 11 or 12 and has a good data reason and gets the company to buy off on that, good for them. NOW the company might actually then staff 13-14 because they know historic sick calls, having an extra floater to help out, etc... then those extra are on the company. My union has no minimums, its all on the company(and right now we are about 500 over staffed, which the union had been warning the company about for a few years). The ground handler union has a minimum of I think its 4 per aircraft/gate, but I know the company staffs more than that, and thats on the company. So unless the ILA has a minimum employee count in their contract(I have no clue if they do or not), then staffing is 100% on the company/port.
 
#191
culater said:

Looks like this is going to last a lot longer than we think.
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What I haven't seen yet is any acknowledgement of the follow-on implications external to the US. Short term, no fuss. If it goes long it could be impactful worldwide. While we can say "fuck them", but that is shortsighted and doesn't resolve the issue of our consumer driven economy, the interconnectedness of it all and the lack of industry within the US to absorb the supply reduction, and at a price that most find acceptable.
 
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#192
lariat said:
What I haven't seen yet is any acknowledgement of the follow-on implications external to the US. Short term, no fuss. If it goes long it could be impactful worldwide. While we can say "fuck them", but that is shortsighted and doesn't resolve the issue of our consumer driven economy, the interconnectedness of it all and the lack of industry within the US to absorb the supply reduction, and at a price that most find acceptable.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure that's why Harold Dagget (millionaire) isn't very worried. He knows he can demand pretty much anything and eventually get it. Probably get a raise out of it.
 
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#195
I've just placed (and paid for) a reasonable sized order for rolled Acme threaded stainless bar from a company in the States.

I'm going to have to fly this order in, but I'm now looking for a European supplier for future work.

It's not just imports being impacted by these clowns.
 
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