Do some searching. I've posted lots of data shooting them in 22br, 22gt and 220tb. My favorite bullet. Shoots lights out
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.22 br
- Thread starter Dai Bando
- Start date
Do some searching. I've posted lots of data shooting them in 22br, 22gt and 220tb. My favorite bullet. Shoots lights out
I don't think the 90 smk would survives the aggressive twist needed to stabilize the 95gr (the op seems to shoot the 95 exclusively and thus have a 1-6.5 twist or similar)
The smk was never intended for 2900 fps + in aggressive twist
I didn't see him state in his post he has a 6.5 twist barrel....and I didn't have any issues shooting 95smk in my 7 twist...
. Good to knowI run a 6.25 twist. Shooting up north, we need a bit more twist than what is usually OK for bullet stabilization.
I saw only 1 post with those bullets so far, so thought maybe some more people tested them too, not that I didn't look for that prior to posting.
I saw only 1 post with those bullets so far, so thought maybe some more people tested them too, not that I didn't look for that prior to posting.
Are 90gr smk more sensitive in that kind of rpm than the 88gr eldm? 88 never (from what I know) blew up, so far, and work really well at distance.
I actually went from a 7 twist Bartlein to a 7.5 twist and my loads were much wider and more consistent. Saw a noticeable difference instantly.
308,000rpm down to 287,000 rpm going from 7 twist to 7.5 twist
I found this same case with 22gt as well going from 7 to 7.5 twist....
I wasn't blowing bullets but was getting unexplainable fliers and inconsistencies accuracy with 85 and 90's.. switched to 7.5 and all that went away
308,000rpm down to 287,000 rpm going from 7 twist to 7.5 twist
I found this same case with 22gt as well going from 7 to 7.5 twist....
I wasn't blowing bullets but was getting unexplainable fliers and inconsistencies accuracy with 85 and 90's.. switched to 7.5 and all that went away
I had excellent accuracy out the gate with 88 eld from my first 22br 7 twist. My testing they were not as consistent past 600 as a 7.5 twist with 85.5 and 90smk.. especially at 1000yd
I have no experience with this combination. I doubt there are many people using 6.25 twist.
I don't think it necessarily blows up but I've found that over RPMs to cause flyers and unstability.
I had no luck back in the day trying to shoot 90 smk's over 2900 fps and my conversation with Sierra summed up the fact that this bullet was never made for velocities that high.
I hope I'm wrong and that Pandom is right, but Pandom experience is at way slower twist and his above post explain it all.
I don't think it necessarily blows up but I've found that over RPMs to cause flyers and unstability.
I had no luck back in the day trying to shoot 90 smk's over 2900 fps and my conversation with Sierra summed up the fact that this bullet was never made for velocities that high.
I hope I'm wrong and that Pandom is right, but Pandom experience is at way slower twist and his above post explain it all.
I've probably shot 3000-4000 of the newer factory pointed 90smk at or over 3000fps in 3 fast 22 calibers. Looking at my data, My go to 22br load has been 3013 with many groups in the 0.2moa out to 400 and 0.3s out to 800. Many groups just under 0.5moa at 1000 but consistently 0.5moa.
I have 3 22br barrels in the safe right now...the 28" Bartlein 5R 1-7.5 with my custom 22br reamer shoots the best of all 3... the Mullerworks 1:7 shoots 80smk and 80vld into tiny knots. The Bartlein 1:7 shoots great but the 7.5 is more consistent. Shoots everything with ease
I have 3 22br barrels in the safe right now...the 28" Bartlein 5R 1-7.5 with my custom 22br reamer shoots the best of all 3... the Mullerworks 1:7 shoots 80smk and 80vld into tiny knots. The Bartlein 1:7 shoots great but the 7.5 is more consistent. Shoots everything with ease
Really interesting.
I went for the 6.25 gain twist to stabilize the 95gr in the North, work perfecly, and as the bullets are not available anywhere tried the 88gr. So far Im still really lucky, it shoot consistently 1moa target at 1km with impact (its PRS) in the wind, but it might be the explanation for the fliers I get here and there.
Will try in a 7 twist and see, really appreciate the feedback!
For some more data for you, here is my 22GT OCW with 90smk after switching to a Bartlein 7.5 twist going 3100-3200. Everything tightened up just by going from 7 to 7.5... No more erratic and unexplained fliers
Well my 22bra is finished. I will be starting barrel break In tomorrow with 75gr eld-m’s and either n140, n150, cfe 223 or varget but not too sure where to start. looking for a light load to form with using alpha 6bra ocd
Interested in your results.I have a load for n140 and varget and the varget is about 50-60 fps faster with similar charges in a 6bra.The 22 br loads should be safe start.22Bra should be about 1-1 1/2grains more for a finished load.The n150 should be a good powder.When mines finished it’s the first one I’m gonna try with 90smk’s and alpha brass
I will let keep this updated then. I used n150 and n140 in my 6bra and had extremely similar results and speeds
So I think I’ve settled on a load and it’s similar to what most have said throughout this thread. Over multiple range visits (4) looks like 28.5 gr Varget @1.798” (40/1000 jump) has always been the stand out and consistent. Barrel now has 273 rounds through it and has settled at around the 3000FPS mark with the 85.5gr Berger. All rounds have made it to the target with the 6.5 twist IBI. Does this look promising? Cheers.
Well finally got all 200 fire formed so ran a pressure test with the 85.5’s. Just a hair over 1/2 moa of vertical on a windy day with 240fps velocity spread. Didn’t hit pressure so going extend the pressure test. Max velocity here was 3116fps with 85.5’s
I actually work at Kauger Arms. I love it and not because of that but they are really smooth actions. I have a 6br I shoot PRS with and have never had any problems with them.
Well after reading through 16 pages of posts I’m spinning up a 22br. Are the 22br Remington dies the correct ones? I know there are dimensional differences between the Remington br case and the br Norma (lapua) cases I will be using. I ordered a Forster ultra mic seater in “22br” and a Redding type s FL sizer in “22br Remington”.
I think you mean .245. I also used honed Forster dies. They are the BEST for low runout, like no more than .001!
David
They’ll hone further, you just have to call them and explain that you really do want that.
I’ll check my die tonight and figure out what it got set to.
Seasoning in barrel #2, spun it on, took 3 shots to get close zero, and sent 10 more. 9 shots of 10 touching. 28.3gr varger with 90smk jumping 30k running right at 2900fps. It was a hammer on steel at the range today. Shooting my 6" plate at 400y from kneeling position was just one silver poi at center, easily half for 5 shots. This barrel is a 28" hvy varm muellerworks 7tw 219bore. Manzella Precision cut this with a 255nk 130k freebore chamber. This was done on necked down 6br brass that was formed to someone else chamber prior as I bought this brass with 2-3, firings last year when 6br lapua wasn't easy to find.
Ok my 22br with 88gr at 2960 is showing 1.334 with a 8 twist. Should I try working up a load for them or switch to the 85.5 gr?
Is 8 twist with a stability factor of 1.334 enough to pursue considering I'll be using it for prs. There's a big difference between 100 yards and 1000. Would I be better off concentrating on 85.5 berger over the 88eld?
Yea I don't care what bullet you use...8 twist has low rpm and shows stability issues using berger calculator.... I run in the 3030-3050 range with 7.5 twist
So I was necking down virgin 6br brass in my Redding type S FL bushing sizer and ran into some problems, hoping someone here might have an answer. My first pass was with a .260 intermediate bushing, neck was sized all the way down to the shoulder, Bo problems. Next pass was with the final .249 bushing. This one left about an 1/8” unsized. Die won’t go in any farther and is bottomed out on the shell holder, it it shouldn’t need to since the previous bushing sizer the whole neck!
With the die bottomed out, hopefully you're not bumping shoulders back. Does the sized down brass chamber fine in your rifle? If so, load em and send it. This brass will for to your chamber and all will be well. All bushing dies will leave a small portion of the neck unsized.
Chances are, the intermediate bushing was leaving a small portion as well, but it's much less detectable when it's only 005 per side, now it's 010 per side. The only way to eliminate this, is to use a Hornady or equivalent 22cal neck sizing die. They're designed to size the neck only, but completely.
The problem is, going from 268 to 244 the the expander ball to 248, it's a lot of working the brass, and runout occurs. Using an intermediate bushing prior to the neck die helps a lot. But that's a lot of damn work to do when the stuff needs formed anyway. My heavily runout brass shot half moa breaking in the barrel, its a BR variant, it'll shoot.
Neck down with the bushing die as far as you can, but do not shoulder bump, as long it'll chamber(a small amount of resistance on bolt close is okay) load and shoot! Second firing that bulge at the base will be gone. Another tip, make sure you're bushing retention stem is screwed down to where it's tight against the bushing, and back out 1/8th a turn, just enough for the bushing to float, then lock the retention stem into place. This will ensure you're sizing as much neck as possible without bumping the shoulders.
Yeah I measured and I’m not bumping shoulders. I don’t have my barrel back from the gun smith yet so no way to tell if they’ll chamber. It’s far more than a doughnut tho, I use the same Redding dies in all my other calibers and have never seen this much unsized neck. The weird thing is it didn’t do it with the larger bushing, and I could definitely see where it was sizing to. I have the die set up just like you suggest.
I have had this same thing with every full size Forster die I have. I just got my 22BR die from Forster so before I sized any brass I took my measurements. What I do is put the GO gauge in the press with the stem out of the die. I always set my sizing dies up so that the shell holder and the die kiss. This makes my sizing process have a constant volume because a hard case can not stop things prematurely.
So with the GO gauge you want to either have a stronger kiss or a hard stop. My as manufactured dies all have no feel that the GO gauge is touching the shoulder, so hence I can never set the shoulder back to a SAMII minimum chamber. You have 2 choices to fix that. Either you grind the top of the shell holder off or the bottom of the die. I use Redding Competition shell holders to control how much I set back so grinding the top of the die is out. I take the die ut of the press, turn it upside down and put the GO gauge in the die. I measure what the distance is from the rim of the die to the bottom of the GO gauge. This should be .150 but mine have been from .185 to .160. Now I know how much I need to take off. I use the grinding wheel in my drill press and just carefully put the bottom of the die in and grind for a minute and measure, keeping that up till I get what I want.
Another point to remember that the actual shoulder/neck junction is a few thousands higher than a 6BR case junction is. The neck you are sizing down is folded down to form the hypotenuse of a right triangle whose base is the difference between the starting case to the final case. In this example it is .265 - .248 = .017 then to find how high the junction we use Tan(30) x .017 = height change or .0098.
I know it sucks but if you want full control of your brass you have to make sure everything lines up and you can control what happens in order to have the most consistant brass possible. Another point is that different manufacturer's brass sizes differently. That is where the Redding competition shell holders come in. I figure which one is needed for which manufacturer to move the shoulder back to exactly the same spot in the chamber.
Just to remove any doubt I am anal and OCD.
David
Yeah I could see that being an issue if I was unable to bump shoulders, but it’s the neck that’s the issue. I have almost a quarter of the neck left unsized, I would have to trim a whole lot off the die to size that and then I’d be smashing shoulders
Are you sure the bushing is close to the bottom of the die well. Usually you set it to be loose only .010 so it can self center.
Have you used a GO gauge to see if the shoulder is even close?
Most bushings have a taper, which leaves a portion unsized, the bushings that have the least amount of taper are whidden.
This seems like a die setup problem, unless the bushing has an issue. The two things that come to mind are:
1) The bushing has too much room above it, and it's lifting up during the sizing op. Redding's site says this: "The adjustable decapping rod allows you to adjust the bushing position, sizing only part of the neck length when desired." I suspect this is your issue; you've got this "adjustment" set too high, and just need to screw the bushing down further.
2) The bushing was incorrectly machined, and you're seeing the actual profile of what's inside the bushing. This isn't very likely, but it's super easy to tell: the bushing will have a lip inside that matches what you're seeing on the case neck.
1) The bushing has too much room above it, and it's lifting up during the sizing op. Redding's site says this: "The adjustable decapping rod allows you to adjust the bushing position, sizing only part of the neck length when desired." I suspect this is your issue; you've got this "adjustment" set too high, and just need to screw the bushing down further.
2) The bushing was incorrectly machined, and you're seeing the actual profile of what's inside the bushing. This isn't very likely, but it's super easy to tell: the bushing will have a lip inside that matches what you're seeing on the case neck.
Sorry for the nitpicky questions but: is it bottoming out on the black lock ring, or is it bottoming out on the bushing? The lock ring on the spindle should be free-spinning when the spindle bottoms out.
I’m not familiar with Redding bushings, but is there a top and bottom side to it, or can you insert the bushing in either orientation and it works properly both ways?
It’s bottomed out on the bushing not the lock ring, and they have sides but I’ve tried both orientations
I am using a SAC 22BR die sizing 6BR once fire Alpha Brass. I am having a hard bolt closure. Seems like it’s contacting right below the shoulder. I have some ammo that came with the barreled action that chambers fine to measure off of. Included in attachments
Attachments
Did you order or purchase a 22 cal mandrel or decapping pin from them? There dies done work without the mandrel or decapping pin in the dies
