.22 br

[outlawkyote]

Ive read through as much as I can but I think maybe I missed if anyone has measured the grains of H2O?
Im going to be running petersons brass and I see most here are using Lapua so may be close to what Im using. QL says 36gr but if your using 32+gr of r16 Im thinking real life volume is going to have to be closer to 38gr of H2O? Ill be starting my build this week yet so hope to be pulling the trigger this weekend.

 

[ES 350]

I asked awhile back on h20 capacity....

Researching the net i have found #'s of 38 -38.5 for 22BR but no actual measured #'s.

Looking at Nosler 22 BR data and with same bullet seated to same OAL my Grendel IMP case was .5 gr less capacity than nosler 22 BR #'s (early test and brass has grown with more firings) although Nosler was different brand of brass....

My Grendel IMP case holds 37.5 gr of H20.
Without testing a case from your specific chamber correct #'s for your rifle will not be known as reamers vary as well as seating depth will affect as loaded capacities.

To find as fired capacity, a sized case (no primer) with bullet seated at correct length for your chamber is weighed , then use syringe with needle to fill case through flash hole with H20 , tapping case to remove air bubbles, case the re weigh.

 

[outlawkyote]

I asked awhile back on h20 capacity....

Researching the net i have found #'s of 38 -38.5 for 22BR but no actual measured #'s.

Looking at Nosler 22 BR data and with same bullet seated to same OAL my Grendel IMP case was .5 gr less capacity than nosler 22 BR #'s (early test and brass has grown with more firings) although Nosler was different brand of brass....

My Grendel IMP case holds 37.5 gr of H20.
Without testing a case from your specific chamber correct #'s for your rifle will not be known as reamers vary as well as seating depth will affect as loaded capacities.

To find as fired capacity, a sized case (no primer) with bullet seated at correct length for your chamber is weighed , then use syringe with needle to fill case through flash hole with H20 , tapping case to remove air bubbles, case the re weigh.

Thanks for the reply. I understand every chamber is different so my results will vary however I dont want to load up 50 rounds of brass to find out my first shot is over max and I need to pull bullets.
For fireforming Im starting with 33gr of CFE223 and a 69gr SMK. Im also loading a few 85gr RDFs with 30 gr of CFE223. Will I be safe or am I pushing it?
My reamer is 22br Norma, appears to be around .100fb and a 256 neck. My loaded brass have a .2525 measurment on the neck.
Once I get it up and running Ill be able to get some H2O measurments.

 

[ES 350]

I have not loaded any CFE in formed brass , have used 33 gr under a 50 gr bullet to fireform.

I have read (no personal expierience) CFE 223 and Win 748 are almost same powder.

Sierra data has some data with heavier bullets.

 

[outlawkyote]

Shot a few through mine today just to get measurements. It shoots very nice, several groups under 1/2" with both 69gr SMKs and 85gr RDFs. Its showing a lot of potential so now that I have some brass ironed out I can start development.
My fireformed brass has a neck diameter of .253" so probably a .254 neck chamber? Im using a .250 bushing and a loaded round measures .252" on the neck. I may have to turn the necks but no problems yet.
I used a throating reamer to get the 88gr bullet seating "touching" at 2.34 OAL
H2O is 36.6gr (kinda short of the 38-38.5gr h2o?) Petersons brass must be really thick!.
According to QL I should be able to fit 30.5gr of R16 in the case with the 88gr ELD-m giving me 105% fill?

Anyone try H414 or Ramshot hunter yet? I might need a backup powder if R16 doesnt give me what its capable of.

 

[Potsy]

I'm running 31.7 RL-16 w/88's, but I think there's a lower node somewhere from 30.5 to 31.2. Lapua brass, btw.

I've not tried Ramshot Hunter, I only bring it up because I've been eyeballing that powder. I like the fact it should meter easy, Ramshot claims temp stability, the burn range looks good, and guys that run it in other calibers seem to love it. If I had any, I'd give it a whirl.........

 

[outlawkyote]

I'm running 31.7 RL-16 w/88's, but I think there's a lower node somewhere from 30.5 to 31.2. Lapua brass, btw.

I've not tried Ramshot Hunter, I only bring it up because I've been eyeballing that powder. I like the fact it should meter easy, Ramshot claims temp stability, the burn range looks good, and guys that run it in other calibers seem to love it. If I had any, I'd give it a whirl.........

My 6.5 creed loves it with 130gr TMKs but metering for me wasnt easy. I use a chargemaster and the spheres of ramshot powder causes it to flow a little too well. However, it goes through the powder thrower almost perfect and repeatable.

 

[260284]

Shot a few through mine today just to get measurements. It shoots very nice, several groups under 1/2" with both 69gr SMKs and 85gr RDFs. Its showing a lot of potential so now that I have some brass ironed out I can start development.
My fireformed brass has a neck diameter of .253" so probably a .254 neck chamber? Im using a .250 bushing and a loaded round measures .252" on the neck. I may have to turn the necks but no problems yet.
I used a throating reamer to get the 88gr bullet seating "touching" at 2.34 OAL
H2O is 36.6gr (kinda short of the 38-38.5gr h2o?) Petersons brass must be really thick!.
According to QL I should be able to fit 30.5gr of R16 in the case with the 88gr ELD-m giving me 105% fill?

Anyone try H414 or Ramshot hunter yet? I might need a backup powder if R16 doesnt give me what its capable of.

I have found that in other calibers Peterson brass is thicker than Lapua. I use 30.2 to 31.6 of Rl16 under the 88gr ELDM in Lapua brass in my 22BR. I would back off a grain in the Peterson.

 

[Yotetalker]

Running through my 3rd 22br now I think I’ve done more testing in this caliber than anything else I’ve shot, still trying to dial in the reamer specs right but I’m starting to fall in love with it as a shorter range prs caliber and a coyote slayer. I’ve been playing with 90 gr atips and 85.5 Bergers both are nasty on yotes and both shoot excellent. My reamer is a .256 neck with .100 fb I’ve also shot a .252 .085fb think I’ll order another at .255 with a .100 fb just to see if it seems more accurate with out the function issues of a tight neck. The .256 functions flawlessly.

 

[bodhisafa]

Running through my 3rd 22br now I think I’ve done more testing in this caliber than anything else I’ve shot, still trying to dial in the reamer specs right but I’m starting to fall in love with it as a shorter range prs caliber and a coyote slayer. I’ve been playing with 90 gr atips and 85.5 Bergers both are nasty on yotes and both shoot excellent. My reamer is a .256 neck with .100 fb I’ve also shot a .252 .085fb think I’ll order another at .255 with a .100 fb just to see if it seems more accurate with out the function issues of a tight neck. The .256 functions flawlessly.

Best twist rate ?

 

[260284]

Running through my 3rd 22br now I think I’ve done more testing in this caliber than anything else I’ve shot, still trying to dial in the reamer specs right but I’m starting to fall in love with it as a shorter range prs caliber and a coyote slayer. I’ve been playing with 90 gr atips and 85.5 Bergers both are nasty on yotes and both shoot excellent. My reamer is a .256 neck with .100 fb I’ve also shot a .252 .085fb think I’ll order another at .255 with a .100 fb just to see if it seems more accurate with out the function issues of a tight neck. The .256 functions flawlessly.

Have you tried the 88ge ELDM on coyotes?

 

[Potsy]

I shot a long range steel match at Dead Zero Saturday with mine. About 20 shooters and I came in fifth. I've yet to win one, but you can't help but smile. When you beat rifles that were way more expensive, chambered in more expensive to shoot calibers (that are supposed to "buck" the wind better, cause those "little" .22's get blown around). While the wind is usually pretty light, you're shooting into a "bowl" that the wind swirls in. Add in some inclination, and some updrafts, and it really screws with heads. I swear there were two wind flags around 600 yards at the tops of the berm, on opposite sides, each blowing the opposite direction. FWIW, I was running a 95SMK and RL-16. It was running 2,850 when I worked up the load at around 75 degrees, but 30-35 degrees colder and it was down around 2,775 or so (I will say I had my brass annealed between load workup and now, that may have been part of the issue, I thought RL16 was supposed to be more temp stable than that).

I'm pretty sure my neck's .255" and while they initially chambered a bit tight per the sizing donut (I just thought of it as a "false shoulder" and rocked on), I've not had any trouble.

I've popped one smallish coyote with mine (there's a pic of it either on this thread or on the Bighorn Origin thread). I used an 88ELD at about 3,000fps at about 120 yards. High shoulder shot. Couldn't find the entrance, just a little blood on the exit. That said, the coyote died right there. I'm working on some 75Amaxes for a 'yote load. Had a pretty good 3" cluster at 600 yards while laddering up a load a few weeks ago with H-Lever.

My 1:7" 5R 'Bart seems to get all the goody out of 75's-95's. I've fired exactly one 53Vmax through it at 3,500, all I can tell you is that it made it across the Chrony.

 

[Yotetalker]

Best twist rate ?

If I was in higher DA and elevation Ide run a 7.5 twist at 3000fps +- 50 it prolly shoot the best there where I’m at with DA around 0 in the winter 7 seems like the good spot i wouldn’t go faster than 7 or slower than 7.5 prolly a gain twist from 7.5-7 would be ideal

 

[Yotetalker]

Have you tried the 88ge ELDM on coyotes?

Naw I’m not a fan of any of the eld bullets I’ve seen a lot of jacket issues out of them

 

[outlawkyote]

FWIW, I was running a 95SMK and RL-16. It was running 2,850 when I worked up the load at around 75 degrees, but 30-35 degrees colder and it was down around 2,775 or so (I will say I had my brass annealed between load workup and now, that may have been part of the issue, I thought RL16 was supposed to be more temp stable than that)

Is that about the limit of the 95gr bullets for you? I only ask because my 223AI runs them at 2900fps with H414 and was planning to give them a try in my BR but not if the velocity isnt there?

 

[jzerfoss]

Is that about the limit of the 95gr bullets for you? I only ask because my 223AI runs them at 2900fps with H414 and was planning to give them a try in my BR but not if the velocity isnt there?

I've gotten 3000fps with 95gr SMKs, 30grs of varget, and a 28" barrel.

 

[Potsy]

I've not tried to push the 95's hard. I'm running a 24" barrel, btw.
I was running 88's around 3,000fps and figured 2,850 oughta be a safe space for 95's. Guesstimated I'd get there around 30 grains of RL16, and "laddered" from there.
3K out of a 28" tube wouldn't surprise me.
1,000 yards is as far as my range goes. Given the claimed .6 G1 (or figuring a G7 of .306) of a 95SMK, at 2,850fps, it's supersonic to 1300-1400. There's plenty of "bigger" stuff that's not putting on that good of a show.
I will say, cranked up to 3Kfps, the numbers start getting more impressive, but that's harder than I care to run it out of my rifle.
95's at 2900 out of a .223 AI sounds hot to me out of any reasonable barrel length, but if you're comfy with it, rock on. I usually figure about 250-300fps over a standard .223 when I'm swagging BR speed, so that'd put you at 3100-3200 (woo hoo!).

 

[outlawkyote]

I've not tried to push the 95's hard. I'm running a 24" barrel, btw.
I was running 88's around 3,000fps and figured 2,850 oughta be a safe space for 95's. Guesstimated I'd get there around 30 grains of RL16, and "laddered" from there.
3K out of a 28" tube wouldn't surprise me.
1,000 yards is as far as my range goes. Given the claimed .6 G1 (or figuring a G7 of .306) of a 95SMK, at 2,850fps, it's supersonic to 1300-1400. There's plenty of "bigger" stuff that's not putting on that good of a show.
I will say, cranked up to 3Kfps, the numbers start getting more impressive, but that's harder than I care to run it out of my rifle.
95's at 2900 out of a .223 AI sounds hot to me out of any reasonable barrel length, but if you're comfy with it, rock on. I usually figure about 250-300fps over a standard .223 when I'm swagging BR speed, so that'd put you at 3100-3200 (woo hoo!).

I'm running a 28.5" shillen 7t barrel and throated it till I can load an 88gr eld to 2.37".
I'm guessing I started my 22br build with +3000fps in mind with 95s but at the moment I can't find any so I'm still developing with the 88s.
After my first trip to the range I've had the 88s +3100 with r16 with a node around 3050. I think I can get another 50fps safely which hopefully there is another node to be had up there. At my elevation I think I can stay supersonic to our 1810yd steel with the 95s if i can stay above 3000?
If its not going to get me there I may have to Ackley improve it to get a small bump.
The 223ai at 2900fps is just starting to get a little squirrely at our 1520yd steel. Just hoping to get to our last gong(1810) with moa accuracy or better.

 

[Yotetalker]

More 22br fur down

 

[outlawkyote]

Was doing load development with 88gr ELDs and R16
At 895 yds was getting well under MAO accuracy. My best was 3 rounds under 3" with two in the same spot.

 

[Yotetalker]

More 22br carnage 320 yards 85.5 Berger running 3030fps big old male

 

[Potsy]

I gotta try some Berger’s some day.....

 

[bschneiderheinze]

Anyone using 8208 with 77-80 grain I’m look for a start load I shot 28 grains of 4895 today so I was thinking around 29 trying to get the 77 smks to 3300

 

[Yotetalker]

27-28 with up to an 80 will be ok but I doubt you’ll come close to 3300 maybe 3150 ish I did 27.5 with a 80.5 in a 26” it was 3110 and starting to pressure

 

[Yotetalker]

22br kills

 

[Strike_out]

Running through my 3rd 22br now I think I’ve done more testing in this caliber than anything else I’ve shot, still trying to dial in the reamer specs right but I’m starting to fall in love with it as a shorter range prs caliber and a coyote slayer. I’ve been playing with 90 gr atips and 85.5 Bergers both are nasty on yotes and both shoot excellent. My reamer is a .256 neck with .100 fb I’ve also shot a .252 .085fb think I’ll order another at .255 with a .100 fb just to see if it seems more accurate with out the function issues of a tight neck. The .256 functions flawlessly.

I just ordered a .256 neck 100fb from jgs
I have 85.5s and 88s
What are you loading and getting for speed/accuracy?

 

[Yotetalker]

I just ordered a .256 neck 100fb from jgs
I have 85.5s and 88s
What are you loading and getting for speed/accuracy?

Running 85.5 Berger’s with 32 gr of r16 or 32.5 of h4350 or 28.5 of varget has all yielded between 3000 and 3050 FPS all the loads seed to shoot about the same .5moa or better at 100 holds .5moa out to 800 under good conditions. Cci450s 26” proof barrels suppressed Has been taking around 300 rds and a few firings on the brass for it to all Settle in Nicely I’ve had some really good results out of th r16 load and the bullet about .040” off the lands. It runs right at 3030fps with great numbers

 

[Strike_out]

Running 85.5 Berger’s with 32 gr of r16 or 32.5 of h4350 or 28.5 of varget has all yielded between 3000 and 3050 FPS all the loads seed to shoot about the same .5moa or better at 100 holds .5moa out to 800 under good conditions. Cci450s 26” proof barrels suppressed Has been taking around 300 rds and a few firings on the brass for it to all Settle in Nicely I’ve had some really good results out of th r16 load and the bullet about .040” off the lands. It runs right at 3030fps with great numbers

Great info thank you. 1/2 moa at 800 is awesome.

 

[Sbenc]

Anyone have any further load development data with other powders such as VV n150, n550, or imr 4166??

Not so easy to come by varget, rl16, or h4350 in these parts.

 

[Sbenc]

Awesome.

Tested the 88 gr eld m, and got some promising results with the N-150 powder at around 3000 fps.

Going to test the 95 gr SMK next, and see what it can do.

Wish i could get my hands on some RL-16, but seems to impossible here in Europe

 

[Sbenc]

Awesome.

Tested the 88 gr eld m, and got some promising results with the N-150 powder at around 3000 fps.

Going to test the 95 gr SMK next, and see what it can do.

Wish i could get my hands on some RL-16, but seems to impossible here in Europe...

Any further details on load and performance with the n150 and 88's?

 

[Twitchy]

Any info on 95 SMKs? I'm trying to find the right cartridge to launch the 95s at 3000+ comfortably. Something smaller than Creemoor preferably so I can still use Varget/Precision/etc or similar burn rate powders.

 

[jzerfoss]

Any info on 95 SMKs? I'm trying to find the right cartridge to launch the 95s at 3000+ comfortably. Something smaller than Creemoor preferably so I can still use Varget/Precision/etc or similar burn rate powders.

That's the top end of the 22 BR.. May want to look at the 22 BRA, 22 Dasher, 22 GT

 

[Yotetalker]

Clipped the top of the back of this one 254 yards 22br 85.5s 3030 fps and the wife shot the other one with a 223ai 85.5s 2900fps 117 yards. Carnage and amazing performance.

 

[Jimichanga]

Any info on 95 SMKs? I'm trying to find the right cartridge to launch the 95s at 3000+ comfortably. Something smaller than Creemoor preferably so I can still use Varget/Precision/etc or similar burn rate powders.

You will not get there with Varget and 95 smk. I ran a ladder and at 28.4 (2948 with 26" bbl) I got a heavy bolt lift and stopped. Try 22GT?

 

[Potsy]

.22 Dasher w/26”-28” barrel, maybe.
The Good thing about the Creed is you could get there in a low node with a shorter barrel.
I’m running them at 2,850 (75 deg day) in a 24” BR, w/RL-16, FWIW.

 

[Mtndudeleather]

22gt does not like varget for the heavies, which surprised me and made for some frustrations. H4350 and 90 atips at 3170 in a 26" 5 round groups

 

[grinnergetter]

22BR Beaver Patrol / Thermal

 

[260284]

I'm on my 3rd barrel now for the 22BR. Its been very consistent and easy to shoot.

I pulled my first barrel at 2400 rounds, and the second one at 2700 rounds. It was still accurate, but velocity was dropping off. If I wasn't competing with it I easily could have ran those barrels over 3000 rounds.

I'm at 2920fps now at over 2600 rounds on this barrel. Pretty much running 29grs Varget throughout its life under an 88gr ELDM. I started it at .040 jump just like the others and haven't touched it. I'm sure its jumping .100 or more by now. Its still bugholing. I won the local PRS match with it in March. I definitely like the way they shoot at less than 3000fps versus more. I ran a faster node for a while on the first barrel (3050fps). Ive found them to be much easier to run at the 2990fps node I keep hitting. As the barrel wears my velocity slowly drops, but my SDs and accuracy remains very good throughout.

I've ran a barrel on .050 freebore, .100 freebore and .180 freebore. I experimented with the 95gr SMK on that last one. I found i just couldn't get the velocity I was after with that bullet. There are better cartridges to push the 95 grainer.

I've run the 85.5gr Hybrid alongside the 88gr ELDM and determined there wasn't much justification in the added cost of the Hybrid. Head to head on a big plate at 1250 yards they both performed very similarly, but the Hornady is almost half the cost.

I ran a 22", a 26", and a 28" barrel. Performance was great throughout. Ran a can on the 22 incher.

I really love the round. It's treated me well. Far better in fact than my 6GT running 109gr LRHTs. Maybe when I'm 3 barrels into that rifle I'll have it all figured out as well.

Which freebore did you like the best and what is your neck diameter? I have two barrels that I used the .050 with a .252 neck and I need a .254 neck for better clearance. Shoots really accurate, but I don't want to neck turn.

 

[S3th]

Really debating between running a 6BR w/ 95gr TMKs or 22BR w/ 88gr ELD-Ms. Read to page 2 (plan to read the rest tomorrow) and I'm really leaning towards a 22BR now. Really wish Peterson made 22BR. I have never necked down anything.

 

[S3th]

What velocity would you guess you were to get out of a 26" barrel with 88gr/80gr/75gr ELDM?
I'm guessing 3,050/3,125/3,200ish?

Assuming;
75gr/3,185 (22BR)
80gr/3,125 (22BR)
88gr/3,050 (22BR)
95gr/3,125 (6BR)

Elevation:
0-300yards: equal across the board (0.0-1.0 mils)
400-800: 75gr> (1.6-5.0 mils)
800-1000: 75gr + 88gr (6.2-7.4 mils)
1000-1500: 88gr> (8.8-16.1 mils)

Wind (10mph):
0-300yards: equal across the board (0.2-0.5 mils)
400-1500: 88gr> (0.6-3.6 mils)

I think I am pretty set on 22BR running 88grs.

 

[S3th]

I dont think that node at 3050fps is a great fit for the 88gr ELDM. I spent a little time shooting my first barrel at that node, it was far more finicky. The SDs were loose goosy and less consistent, as were the groups.

I dropped to the next node down at 2990fps, and it all came together. Low SDs consistently and nice groups. Its slowly dropped to 2920fps on my barrel that has over 2500 rounds on it, but its still low SDs and shooting great.

That's good to know. I'll adjust speeds across the board but I feel like 88grs will still win out in wind. Additionally, the 95gr TMK in 6BR are likely 75fps too fast. With that said, the 22BR exceedingly outperforms.

I'm wanting to build a rifle for local matches, most 600yards, and in.

 

[S3th]

Thats exactly what I use mine for. Local matches 1100 yards and in.

The 22BR with an 88gr ELDM at 2990fps is right there neck and neck with a 6 Dasher flinging a 105 Hybrid at 2850fps.

Any issues with bullets blowing up? That’s what I am currently reading with 22BR & ELDMs + SMKs.

 

[Kentucreed6]

What is trimming like on the 22BR? Does it need to be done every couple firings or every time?

 

[Potsy]

Dunno. Haven’t trimmed any yet. My brass shortened up when I sized it down and hasn’t grown back out to that point yet.

 

[blr454]

Hi did someone try 4166 on 88 eld-m bullet they supposed to be similar than varget.
Thank's

 

[ES 350]

I've never blown up a bullet in my BR.

I popped some 95gr SMKs at 3170fps from my 7" twist 22 Creedmoor. But I've never seen a jacket failure from my 7" twist 22BR.

3000fps is about 308,000rpms in a 7" twist. Pretty safe range. As you approach 320,000rpms, things can get a little sporty. Thats a little north of 3100fps.

What rifling in your barrels?

Seems 4 groove cut rifling is hardest on jackets when pushing them to upper limits.
More /shallower grooves seem better...

 

[Krob95]

It’s weird you were having issues pushing the 95gr SMK’s in the 22cm at those speeds. I’m running them in my 22GT (kreiger 4 groove, 26”, 1/6.5tw, standard bore size) at 3240 and they’re making it to the target @ 100yds. Dropped speeds due to pressure at that speed but it shot good.

 

[Krob95]

How long ago were you having these issues? Maybe they changed something? But I’m gonna be doing a seating depth test and then get them out to distance so I may have issues further out. Yet to be seen lol that’s promising to see that many rounds out of a barrel tho. I almost went with a 22BR and I still might depending on how invested I get into 22GT

 

[jcwarrior87]

Any info on 95 SMKs? I'm trying to find the right cartridge to launch the 95s at 3000+ comfortably. Something smaller than Creemoor preferably so I can still use Varget/Precision/etc or similar burn rate powders.

i built a 22 brx and had a custom reamer spun up. 95s at 3150 in a 28" tube..... it was freaking amazing. going to do another with a shorter throat for the 75 elds on a 16" barrel for killing dogs