AR Comp and 62gr BTHP shoot really well for me. I have not seen 8208 available in a looong time, ar comp ain't much better. Both Powders work great for the grendel as well.
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.223 - 5.56
- Thread starter Two Shoes
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OK guys I could use a little help. I'm heading into uncharted waters.
In an effort for ever increasing need for accuracy I need to try something.
Currently I'm shooting Berger 80.5 through a 1-7 barrel. I avg groups in the .9" range at 200Y.
So I'm thinking of trying something (to me) Radical. Berger flat base in 55 grains. I know my twist at 1-7 isn't optimal but could they possibly work?
I shoot the 80.5s through a low node so maybe if I can do the same with the 55s they will work?
Thoughts?
In an effort for ever increasing need for accuracy I need to try something.
Currently I'm shooting Berger 80.5 through a 1-7 barrel. I avg groups in the .9" range at 200Y.
So I'm thinking of trying something (to me) Radical. Berger flat base in 55 grains. I know my twist at 1-7 isn't optimal but could they possibly work?
I shoot the 80.5s through a low node so maybe if I can do the same with the 55s they will work?
Thoughts?
75-80. Would also be nice to use it for 52-55gr bullets. I'm trying 8208 with the lighter bullets as well, works good for the 77s.
Anyone spend any time shooting the Berger 73 grain targets? Looking to eeek out slightly better performance vs the 80.5 FB.
7 twist shooter here.
How are you seating them? I found the 80.5s didn't like being jammed.
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Try jumping .040 with the 80.5. One of the only heavy berger bullets that like more jump. If you want to save some money and load dev effort and have even a slightly higher BC, try the Sierra 80 SMK. They are now pointed (well, as of like 2016/17 lol) and have a 3-4% better BC than the 80.5 and less jump sensitive.
Tried the 85.5 berger at a few seating depths with AR Comp yesterday. Jumping .015 and 23.1 AR Comp got me 2800 fps SD 7.0 over 10 shots in a 26" bartlein 7T, and sub 1/2 moa accuracy at 300 yards. ZERO pressure signs. I have no doubt I could push it to 2900, but 2800 should be pretty mild and not have issues in rain or heat. I tried jumping them at .035+ and I had some weird fliers, though still sub moa. I think .010-.020 is going to be the sweet spot. I think a .090 freebore is going to be optimal for this case, as you can stay out of the donut area on the brass and OAL is short enough to fit in the MDT Gen 2 mags (max OAL 2.55", .090 freebore should put them around 2.53" OAL)
The 80SMK were my favorite. ... till they disappeared off shelves. So I found the 80.5s and they shoot marginally better for me.
I don't recall the jump I'm shooting them at. However I bet it's no where near .040... probably more like .012.
Maybe for giggles I'll back them waaaay off like you suggested.
First I'm going to mess with the 73s when they arrive.
I went to the 80.5 in 2014 or so when the 80 smk were hard to find. Worked really well for me, a bit better than the non-pointed 80 smk, but had a narrow window jump wise where they printed tiny groups.
Ran the 85.5's out to 1000 and came up with a G7 BC of .275. Groups were GREAT, no weird fliers. I shot a total of 60 rounds and they were like shooting a 6BR but with less recoil and better feeding. Now if MDT would just make a 12 round mag with 2.55" OAL we would be in business.
Not MDT, but still a great mag. I’m liking it!
12-Round Extended .223 Accurate Mags
Shooting a 223 in a match has its own set of challenges – your mag doesn’t need to be one of them. Carry 12 rounds in the ultra-reliable Accurate mags, with an OAL of up to 2.500″ (it’s actually a little more, but you’ll figure that out) and stop worrying about those stages with a [...]
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Not MDT, but still a great mag. I’m liking it!
12-Round Extended .223 Accurate Mags
Shooting a 223 in a match has its own set of challenges – your mag doesn’t need to be one of them. Carry 12 rounds in the ultra-reliable Accurate mags, with an OAL of up to 2.500″ (it’s actually a little more, but you’ll figure that out) and stop worrying about those stages with a [...]
Hmm, I guess they are taking the Accurate mags and milling out the front of the plastic inserts? I may have to pick one up...
My first try with the 80.5s was not impressive. They shot ok but not what I expected. Just shy of an inch which is fine but I can get there with cheaper stuff other than 25gr of N140, lapua brass, cci 41s, forget the coal but it will need some tuning.
I have some AR comp on the way. Looking to try it with 88s. Lever is getting me the velocity but not shooting as tight as I would like. Still need to play with seating depth. Right now loaded as long as a polymer MDT will allow. Right around 2.55". 26.0gr of lever got me 2900 out of a 26", 33F degrees, 4910 altitude. I was seeing 3000 FPS with 26 grains of lever in 80 degree weather so it is temp sensitive. AR comp is supposed to be one of the most stable powders around and apparently Federal is using it in the 175 GMM, switching from 4064 (per the Alliant guy on accurateshooter)
"AR-Comp Offers Uniform Velocities over a Wide Temp Range
Tests were done with .223 Rem and .308 Win ammo, loaded with AR-Comp and maintained at temps from -20° F to +160° F in a controlled test center. The ammo itself was heated or cooled to targeted temps before testing. Across that range of temperature, -20° F to +160° F, the ammo loaded with AR-Comp showed a variation of only 20 fps in muzzle velocity. The primary bullet type tested was a 77gr .224 bullet and the secondary was a 175gr .308 bullet.
Burn Rate Like Varget: Though this is a reformulation of Reloder 15, the burn rate of AR-Comp is slightly faster than RL15. Alliant told us: “Reloder 15 is slightly slower, in burn rate, than Varget. The new AR-Comp, with the enhancements, ended up slightly faster than Reloder 15, so it is now very close to Varget in burn rate”. This is the result of the “tuning” of the powder to be much less temp-sensitive.
Meters Like Reloder 15: AR-Comp is a small-kernel, double-base extruded powder like Reloder 15, so it will continue to meter just like Reloder 15. The load density should be the same as Reloder 15.
Loaded Ammo: We asked if any manufacturer will be using AR-Comp in loaded ammo. Dick told us that: “he’s not allowed to release that information at this time.” Draw your own conclusions, but remember that Alliant is owned by ATK, which makes Federal rifle ammo."
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From my own personal experience having used a handful of kegs of AR Comp, it’s very temp stable, more so than varget even, but it has a faster burn rate. It’s a very low heat powder and barrel life is very very good. Accuracy is the best of any powder I’ve tried for 223/308, with very low SDs.
Back to burn rate.I’ve used it with 6br and 6 dasher, and while accuracy is amazing I’ve run into pressure issues at velocities that seem low. Varget is also really good in my 6x47L but AR Comp won’t produce very good velocities without pressure. It works in 6.5 creedmoor with the 120 class bullets though velocities are pretty mild, but for heavy bullets it’s too fast burning to get decent velocities.
How far are most people jumping the 75eldm bullets? Just got 8lbs of N135 to lad up a bunch for TAC Class PRS.
I load mine at .020" off the lands which sets me at 2.470" OAL so still fits in the MDT mags.
It's where I usually start using any of the AMAX/ELDs of any caliber and very rarely move off it.
In my experience a little more than you would think. My CBTO on one of my most accurate 75gr ELD loads so far is 1.9520" with 8208XBR, I have found the same CBTO to shoot the 75gr BTHPs with Varget extremely well also. I am pretty sure my gun has the .169 ISSF freebore. I run MDT mags.
When you guys refer to like .020 off are you referencing off the lands or off Jam? Cause in my gun jam is about .025 difference from the lands
I think you misunderstand my post. I'm saying when someone says my load shot great at .020 off are you meaning .020 off touch or .020 off Jam cause .020 off touch would be probably around .045 off hard jam
I understood your post and why I replied like I did. When you measure to the lands you don’t jam the bullet into the lands when getting the measurement. If you are jamming the bullet then you aren’t getting the measurement to lands but a measurement dependent on how hard you are pushing the bullet into the lands.
We are referring to how far off the lands. No one references off of jamb because, as Rob said, the jamb is dependant on how hard you press the bullet into the lands.
Ehh idk I have found the Hornady tool to be pretty easy and consistent and alot easier to use then taking your barrel off and measuring touching the lands.. although that is the much safer and honest method.
I'm just trying to make sure everyone is on the same page when telling someone there jump and they don't think alright I'll go .010 off and take there Hornady tool measure and seat .010 off that and create a pressure issue because they are .020 thou into the lands
The Hornady tool doesn’t jam if you are using it right. You go in and touch the lands and stop. If you are jamming then you are pushing too hard.
Sure you can do that but that's not the most accurate way to measure.. the best way is to take the barrel off chuck it up vertically seat a bullet with normal neck tension and drop it in the chamber keep seating it into the case until the case lifts freely out with no stick.. that's the best most effective way to find touch
Whatever works for you but the Hornady tool works just fine.
Unless you are loading to the lands, that's all it is anyway, a starting point. I do it like 5 times carefully then take an average of what those 5 are and roll with it. I'm not going to load to the lands so it doesn't have to be accurate to the thou, just with .005 ish and it's fine.
Trust me I know the only point I was trying to make is to make it clear when your talking about using the tool if you're jamming it or not so someone doesn't get into a pressure issue.. also 99 percent of all the videos on how to use the Hornady tool tell you to push it into the rifling until it stops and hold even consistent pressure when you lock the ring and that's what a hard jam is.
Jam using the Erik Cortina method. Your right I can come back from jam and still get rifling marks on the bullet for a while before reaching true jump.
