.223 - 5.56

[Lunchbox27]

I would be interested in his numbers also.
Really depends on your COAL, any idea where jam is in your chamber? The 88s are at hard jam in mine right around 2.600"
I have done up to 24.4gr Varget, 25gr RL15.5, 25.6 CFE 223 and 26.0 Leverevolution, Lake City brass. Charges would need to be lower with Lapua, seems to have less capacity. The lever load seems to be right on the edge of pressure for me. I think I can go a little higher with the others. CCI 41 military primers with the hard cup seem to tolerate the hotter loads. May be fine with 450s also, I have heard all the CCI primers have harder cups than say Federal (except the CCI 400s which are for things like 222 rem.)

I have CBTO for them all. These are jammed.

Berger 85.5 : 1.982”
ELD 88 : 1.966”
SMK 90 : 1.995”

I’m gonna start at 21.5 for all of them and move up from there.

 

[otnot]

For those of you that want to shoot heavies this is a good read starting on page 34-35.
Bug Holes

 

[Lunchbox27]

I have CBTO for them all. These are jammed.

Berger 85.5 : 1.982”
ELD 88 : 1.966”
SMK 90 : 1.995”

I’m gonna start at 21.5 for all of them and move up from there.

Settled on the 88ELD’s. Bergers also shot well, the 90smk not so much.

88’s are going 2750 with zero pressure. I could push it up possibly another grain (sitting @ 23.0 with 8208) but for now, I’ll see how this does at distance. Sub-half MOA, single digit SD’s for 10 rounds.

 

[jLorenzo]

Had really good luck with 85.5s touching the lands at 2.018" cbto, 25.5gr Varget. Very slight primer flow but they're still round not flat. May back off .1.
Matchs 6.5 wind and less drop.
Gonna continue and try RL15.5, might be a touch less velocity but a good amount less pressure. Now if I only I can find some more of it.
*Obiviously not a standard throat, start low work up.

 

[Young_Engineer_89]

Well I got my new 223. So far all I have tried is the 85.5 bergers and AR Comp. Quickly found a load that is shooting pretty well.

Load data:
Starlink brass F-0
CCI BR-4
AR Comp @ 23.1 grains
Berger 85.5 GR hybrids
CBTO 1.945”

Rifle has a 28.5” kreiger 1:6.5 twist barrel. 10 shot string averaged 2855 fps with SD of 11 and an ES of 30. Hoping to pull down the SD and ES a little now that I have some once fired brass.

10 shot group at 100 measured 0.59” with a little bit of me making it bigger than the rifle wanted it to be.

And just for fun here is the rifle

 

[bfm1851]

Nice group and even nicer rifle.

 

[jLorenzo]

Well I got my new 223. So far all I have tried is the 85.5 bergers and AR Comp. Quickly found a load that is shooting pretty well.

Load data:
Starlink brass F-0
CCI BR-4
AR Comp @ 23.1 grains
Berger 85.5 GR hybrids
CBTO 1.945”

Rifle has a 28.5” kreiger 1:6.5 twist barrel. 10 shot string averaged 2855 fps with SD of 11 and an ES of 30. Hoping to pull down the SD and ES a little now that I have some once fired brass.

10 shot group at 100 measured 0.59” with a little bit of me making it bigger than the rifle wanted it to be.

View attachment 8132624

And just for fun here is the rifle
View attachment 8132625

Sweet rifle. It would be nice if AR Comp worked with the 85.5s, I have a bunch. Seems a little fast but I'm gonna try it.

I was seeing 2930 with 25.5 Varget @ 2.018 cbto, 26" barrel,
.015" off hard jam still but still leaves slight rifling marks on the bullet so it is touching. Wouldn't go any higher than that but primers (BR4s) and brass(Lapua) look good. Moving to try RL15.5 with the 85.5s and save the varget for the 80gr smks @ 600y line. I don't think I can fit enough RL15.5 to create pressure, 25.8grs was a tiny bit crunchy with the 88gr ELDs and showed no pressure signs.

 

[rothgyr]

I had a busy week leading up to a regional PRS match last weekend, and got to the reloading bench to find I only had ~50 pieces of prepped BRA brass, and I had decided this match was just for fun already. I have a brand new .223 barrel on my TL3, so I figured why not.

Looked up some 8208 XBR loads here and on Accurate Shooter, and settled on a "safe" starting load for the 90gr A-Tip:

90gr A-Tip
CCI #450
22.3gr 8208 XBR
Lapua Brass
2.497" OAL

2580 FPS out of a 22" barrel. Barrel sped up mid match, but I didn't get a chance to chrono it afterward. I'd imagine it's running ~2640 by now.

SD of 11.7 FPS over five shots. I'm betting more case fill will bring it down to single digits, similar to my BRA with 8208.

Zero pressure signs. I'll see if I can get it up to 24gr soon and find where the pressure begins.

Naturally, I timed out a lot with mag issues, and I made some dumb mistakes, but the bullet's performance inside of 700 yds was honestly phenomenal.

 

[Stephen Bachiler]

H

 

[Mauser48]

I have results from groups I shot a few months ago I'm going to finally post up later. I did a latter test with lake city brass, Winchester srp, hornady 80gr eld, and 8208xbr from 22.8gr-23.6gr 2.500 coal. All my primers looked pretty flat on all these powder charges. No sticky bolt. Is this just how Winchester primers are. I think my next step is some lapua brass and cci br4 primers. Also, would it be worth stepping up to a redding type s die set? I'm currently just using a lee full length set. Chrono data and target pics to come soon.

 

[jLorenzo]

I have results from groups I shot a few months ago I'm going to finally post up later. I did a latter test with lake city brass, Winchester srp, hornady 80gr eld, and 8208xbr from 22.8gr-23.6gr 2.500 coal. All my primers looked pretty flat on all these powder charges. No sticky bolt. Is this just how Winchester primers are. I think my next step is some lapua brass and cci br4 primers. Also, would it be worth stepping up to a redding type s die set? I'm currently just using a lee full length set. Chrono data and target pics to come soon.

Check to see what kind of neck tension your getting from your current sizing die. Sometimes you don't need anything else.

 

[Mauser48]

Here are my results. Are groups are shot with the magnetospeed attached. Rifle is a bighorn origin action with a bartlein 223 wylde 1-7 twist 24" shouldered prefit from keystone. Load is the hornady 80gr eld with lake city 69 brass, Winchester srp, imr 8208, 2.500 coal. I've never used a chrono for load development so let me know what you guys think of the results and what the next step should be. Zero experience with analyzing data like this first hand. Pics of some of the fired cases are shown next to their corresponding charge weight. Based on the looks of these and the velocities should I keep going up in powder charge? Ignore the center target that doesn't have a charge weight written next to it, completely different load.

22.8 gr
2693, 2720, 2697, 2703, 2686

23.0 gr
2748, 2722, 2722, 2726, 2713

23.2 gr
2711, 2745, 2752, 2798, 2739

23.4 gr
2766, 2764, 2762, 2762, 2761

23.6 gr
2769, 2803, 2781, 2781, 2769

 

[jLorenzo]

Here are my results. Are groups are shot with the magnetospeed attached. Rifle is a bighorn origin action with a bartlein 223 wylde 1-7 twist 24" shouldered prefit from keystone. Load is the hornady 80gr eld with lake city 69 brass, Winchester srp, imr 8208, 2.500 coal. I've never used a chrono for load development so let me know what you guys think of the results and what the next step should be. Zero experience with analyzing data like this first hand. Pics of some of the fired cases are shown next to their corresponding charge weight. Based on the looks of these and the velocities should I keep going up in powder charge? Ignore the center target that doesn't have a charge weight written next to it, completely different load.

22.8 gr
2693, 2720, 2697, 2703, 2686

23.0 gr
2748, 2722, 2722, 2726, 2713

23.2 gr
2711, 2745, 2752, 2798, 2739

23.4 gr
2766, 2764, 2762, 2762, 2761

23.6 gr
2769, 2803, 2781, 2781, 2769

I would say if your happy with the velocity keep fine tuning. If not maybe try Varget. Less pressure than 8208 with heavier bullets.
Are those primers blanked? As in releasing pressure back into the gun? If so reduce charge. Do you know where you are in relation to the lands? Los like the barrel shows some promise. Personally when I am looking to test maximum accuracy capabilities of a barrel I will shoot some Sierra and some Berger Bullets to get an idea.

 

[Fret]

I usually shoot light .223 bullets but just recently put on an 8 twist .223 barrel with a .169 freebore for 77 grain bullets. 24 grains of AR Comp works great with 55 grain Bergers so I loaded up 22 grains of AR Comp and 77 grain Berger OTMs just touching the lands. Took the new barrel out to zero and shot two groups or 5 at 100 yards. with the OTMs and AR Comp. Need to mess with it a bit to hopefully tighten up the groups a little bit more. Caliper zeroed at .224.

 

[Mauser48]

I would say if your happy with the velocity keep fine tuning. If not maybe try Varget. Less pressure than 8208 with heavier bullets.
Are those primers blanked? As in releasing pressure back into the gun? If so reduce charge. Do you know where you are in relation to the lands? Los like the barrel shows some promise. Personally when I am looking to test maximum accuracy capabilities of a barrel I will shoot some Sierra and some Berger Bullets to get an idea.

I think 2750 fps should be good. What velocities are you guys seeing with 80gr bullets in a 24" barrel. I'm about .030" off the lands. Rifle shoots really well with the sierra 77 smk at 23.2gr of 8208 at AR mag length.

 

[jLorenzo]

I usually shoot light .223 bullets but just recently put on an 8 twist .223 barrel with a .169 freebore for 77 grain bullets. 24 grains of AR Comp works great with 55 grain Bergers so I loaded up 22 grains of AR Comp and 77 grain Berger OTMs just touching the lands. Took the new barrel out to zero and shot two groups or 5 at 100 yards. with the OTMs and AR Comp. Need to mess with it a bit to hopefully tighten up the groups a little bit more. Caliper zeroed at .224.

View attachment 8160255

Sweet, what is your COAL with the 77s? I suspect my barrel has the same freebore and I have AR comp and 77s. Haven't tried that combo yet.

 

[Mauser48]

Any of you guys use statline 223 brass? It's more available than lapua right now.

 

[Rob01]

I use Starline 5.56 brass and it’s excellent.

 

[Fret]

Sweet, what is your COAL with the 77s? I suspect my barrel has the same freebore and I have AR comp and 77s. Haven't tried that combo yet.

2.457 COAL with the OTMs when just touching the lands.

 

[jLorenzo]

2.457 COAL with the OTMs when just touching the lands.

View attachment 8160379

Yep same as mine. What kind of speed with AR Comp?

 

[Stephen Bachiler]

Could use some feedback. I have 20 Lake City. 223 brass. It was factory ammo which I fired and harvested the brass. I measured the cases (overall length) and headspace for each case and then full length sized them (bumping the shoulders back about 1 or 2 thousandths) and then re-measured everything. I loaded them up with a stout load of H335 with the intent to see how much the measurements changed. I fired them...decapped them and then re-measured again. The headspace measurements all grew, but stopped at roughly the same length (+/-) 0.0005

I did the same thing with 20 PMC Gold brass...only I Neck Sized those. Their headspace also grew to the same length as the LC brass (1.456). Should i consider this as what my rifles headspace is? Assuming I am using the terms correctly?

 

[Mainer]

Could use some feedback. I have 20 Lake City. 223 brass. It was factory ammo which I fired and harvested the brass. I measured the cases (overall length) and headspace for each case and then full length sized them (bumping the shoulders back about 1 or 2 thousandths) and then re-measured everything. I loaded them up with a stout load of H335 with the intent to see how much the measurements changed. I fired them...decapped them and then re-measured again. The headspace measurements all grew, but stopped at roughly the same length (+/-) 0.0005

I did the same thing with 20 PMC Gold brass...only I Neck Sized those. Their headspace also grew to the same length as the LC brass (1.456). Should i consider this as what my rifles headspace is? Assuming I am using the terms correctly?

This is how I determine the BTO (headspace dimension) for my brass. I take an empty fired case that will chamber easily and start a fired primer in the primer pocket. I then chamber that round letting the bolt seat the primer. The case length including the primer, which should project past the case head, will be the length of the chamber.

 

[jLorenzo]

Could use some feedback. I have 20 Lake City. 223 brass. It was factory ammo which I fired and harvested the brass. I measured the cases (overall length) and headspace for each case and then full length sized them (bumping the shoulders back about 1 or 2 thousandths) and then re-measured everything. I loaded them up with a stout load of H335 with the intent to see how much the measurements changed. I fired them...decapped them and then re-measured again. The headspace measurements all grew, but stopped at roughly the same length (+/-) 0.0005

I did the same thing with 20 PMC Gold brass...only I Neck Sized those. Their headspace also grew to the same length as the LC brass (1.456). Should i consider this as what my rifles headspace is? Assuming I am using the terms correctly?

I think it would be safe to say the measurement of your fired brass from your gun is your chambers heads pace. Bump 2-3 thou from there depending on gun and shooting type.

 

[Niles Coyote]

19 shots off my wobbly and slightly eschewed (to get it less wobbly in the grass) barricade today. The load I've settled on in this trainer rifle is 23.5gr of RL-15 under a 75gr eld fired from a 26" proof barrel. The load yields 2740fps.

 

[Semomike]

I picked up a Christensen Arms MPR in 223 rem, 20" barrel steel, 1-8"

I mounted a Zeiss V4 4x16x50 on it.

I'm trying to load some 75 grain Hornady ELDM

Was just doing a load workup and the initial results were not good

The groups were not good at all, most +2", I started to get pierced primers at 25.7gr and my book says 26.5 is the max load so I stopped shooting.

I checked Jam on my rifle and got 2.471" and think I might rerun the test with the bullet seated much longer.

I don't really see anywhere to start!

 

[OlsenG_360]

I picked up a Christensen Arms MPR in 223 rem, 20" barrel steel, 1-8"

I mounted a Zeiss V4 4x16x50 on it.

I'm trying to load some 75 grain Hornady ELDM

Was just doing a load workup and the initial results were not good

View attachment 8175821View attachment 8175822
The groups were not good at all, most +2", I started to get pierced primers at 25.7gr and my book says 26.5 is the max load so I stopped shooting.

I checked Jam on my rifle and got 2.471" and think I might rerun the test with the bullet seated much longer.

I don't really see anywhere to start!

Hodgdon shows 25.0 as max for their 75gr data and you have higher velocity at 20" than their 24" test gun. So yes likely way too much pressure.

 

[Semomike]

Hodgdon shows 25.0 as max for their 75gr data and you have higher velocity at 20" than their 24" test gun. So yes likely way too much pressure.

Ok I’m

 

[Semomike]

This is what I was going off!

 

[jLorenzo]

Berger 85.5s work.

 

[OlsenG_360]

View attachment 8176168
This is what I was going off!

Strange for sure, usually Hornady is on the conservative side with their data. Hodgdon also lists 24.3 as max for the 77gr Sierra match king.

Seems someone here has had luck with your combo in the same charge range.

 

[beetroot]

I carried out a velocity test with 75gr HPBT (Hornady) using three different powders, and got some very strange results.
All the powders are ADI powders; 2208, Benchmark 8202, and Benchmark 2, these are the same as; Varget, 8208 XBR, and Benchmark.

I tried 23.0gr and 24.0gr, 4 rounds of each and found the complete opposite of what I was expecting.
Varget being the slowest by a long way, and Benchmark the fastest.
This was from my Tikka with a 18" factory barrel.

See the picture for the velocities of each group.

 

[diggler1833]

I broke out my "new again" .223 trainer after getting it rebarreled and basically starting over.

This was rounds 21 - 66 on it.

I'm just reusing a lot of old stuff up on it. 69gr SMK, pick up Remington brass, CCI-400, and a nominal CBTO of 1.900 (about 2.280 COL).

No effort was made to make the best rounds possible. I'm just trying to find a preference for a place to start once I've got about 120 rounds through it and begin load development. I've got the better components set aside for that.

CFE-223, 8208-XBR, and Varget all shot decent, but it looks like I'll be focusing more on Reloader 15.

I'll be sure to revisit this for some fine tuning of OAL and charge weight. For now, I'm going to start messing with the 75gr Hornady BTHP, as I have a bunch of those on hand too.

No velocity right now, sorry.

Rifle specs:
Trued 700 SA
26" Krieger, 1:7, M24, in .223 Wylde

 

[pavementends]

Do any of you folks have the new Hornady manual? I asked them if they had any data for Lever and the 88gr eldm bullet. They referred me to the 5.56 section of their new manual which I do not have access to. Wylde chamber.

 

[sixtyfournmor]

Do any of you folks have the new Hornady manual? I asked them if they had any data for Lever and the 88gr eldm bullet. They referred me to the 5.56 section of their new manual which I do not have access to. Wylde chamber.

I use 25 gr's of LVR & the 75 gr Hornady BTHP in my Venture II bolt action @ 2.360" shoots nickel groups.
Another one you don't usually see is ww 760, I like 27grs of it with the same bullet & length. Same POI. I have a Chorny but have not put them through it yet. This is my best shooting bullet through the rifle, 1 in 9 twist - 5R rifling. Don't know about the 88 gr but I know are starting to use LVR with the 75 & 68's.

 

[diggler1833]

Screwed around with some 5 shot groups doing a seating depth test on Thursday while I finished up the last of my "junk" break-in handloads for my new barrel. 1.905 CBTO with the 75gr Hornady BTHP seemed promising, although nothing was horrible.

Range pickup Remington brass, CCI 400, and 23.5gr of Reloder 15.

123 rounds through it as of this morning, so I cleaned it thoroughly and started messing with my new brass. Stuck with the same charge weight, but went to 4 shot groups just to verify seating depth on either side of Thursday's results. 1.910 seems really promising, but i had an uncalled flyer by the time I got to 1.915 CBTO.

This next Thursday I'll play with charge weight a little, and see if I can't narrow something down. I have a lot of virgin brass to shoot up, so it would be nice to have a decent load to work around with.

Surprisingly, even though there is (supposed to be) a difference in case capacity between Remington and Starline brass, my velocities were within 10 FPS. My ES and SD were half though (18 and 6 today...over 40 and 20 on the Rem stuff Thursday).

 

[Sigma]

My pet load….please proceed with caution, this is over viht max.

lapua brass
cci 400
26.0 grains of n133 (slightly compressed)
53 vmax
3,500+ fps
loaded 10 thou off lands

this is such a deadly and accurate combo in my factory 12 twist remington barrel. don’t be afraid to try these in as low as a 7-8 twist. many reports or people spinning these up to 370k rpm with no probs

 

[Teflon16]

Looking for some advice,

I’m reloading 77gr Scenar’s with Varget and not getting the velocity I was hoping for. I’m loading 25.0 grs of Varget in a 223 wylde 20” Proof AR-15 barrel, and only getting about 2700 FPS. Im seeing a lot of posts of guys running 2800ish with 20” barrels. Am I off base? Trying to consistently reach out to 800 with this DMR rifle. Brass is lapua and primers are CCI-450’s. No pressure signs at 25 grains (pic attached).

Any other powders or recommendations? I like Varget because how how temp stable it is. Thanks guys!

 

[padom]

Accuracy over velocity all day long. Find your load and shoot it. My 20" WOA SDM with 77smk and very well known 23.6gr 8208XBR load is 2725fps and stupid accurate. I have zero issues shooting @ 800yd.

My 20" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 ( Shilen) same load as above is 2772... 77cc with 23.6gr 2725...

20" Keystone Krieger 77smk 23.6gr 8208XBR IS 2753..

So with 77smk and my load in all these barrels...2800 is fast..

 

[Teflon16]

Accuracy over velocity all day long. Find your load and shoot it. My 20" WOA SDM with 77smk and very well known 23.6gr 8208XBR load is 2725fps and stupid accurate. I have zero issues shooting @ 800yd.

My 20" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 ( Shilen) same load as above is 2772... 77cc with 23.6gr 2725...

20" Keystone Krieger 77smk 23.6gr 8208XBR IS 2753..

So with 77smk and my load in all these barrels...2800 is fast..

Okay so I’m not too far off then. And yeah right around 2700 is giving me really good accuracy so I’m happy with where I’m at. How is 8208XBR in terms of temp stability? 25.0 of Varget is definitely a compressed load, but no pressure signs, just makes consistent seating tough. Thanks for the help!

 

[padom]

Okay so I’m not too far off then. And yeah right around 2700 is giving me really good accuracy so I’m happy with where I’m at. How is 8208XBR in terms of temp stability? 25.0 of Varget is definitely a compressed load, but no pressure signs, just makes consistent seating tough. Thanks for the help!

I'm surprised you don't have pressure issues in an AR with 25gr of Varget...thats stupid hot.

If you just fo a quick search around you'll find that's hotter side bolt gun loads with 77gr bullets.. most report blown primers at 24.5gr in an AR...

My 25.0gr varget load with 75's is 2990 in 26" bolt gun...

8208 is awesome and extremely temp stable. If you don't have any good luck finding it. It's unobtainable as of late...

 

[padom]

Here my accuracy with my 77smk 23.6gr 8208 load

 

[Teflon16]

Accuracy over velocity all day long. Find your load and shoot it. My 20" WOA SDM with 77smk and very well known 23.6gr 8208XBR load is 2725fps and stupid accurate. I have zero issues shooting @ 800yd.

My 20" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 ( Shilen) same load as above is 2772... 77cc with 23.6gr 2725...

20" Keystone Krieger 77smk 23.6gr 8208XBR IS 2753..

So with 77smk and my load in all these barrels...2800 is fast..

Here my accuracy with my 77smk 23.6gr 8208 load

Damn, that’s pretty good, if only 8208 was in stock. And yeah I’m not going above 25 gr of Varget, it’s a 5.56 pressure level load but I’ve got a 223 wylde barrel so it can handle the pressure. I was told that Varget basically can’t generate quite enough pressure in a 20inch barrel to have pressure issues.

 

[jLorenzo]

Accuracy over velocity all day long. Find your load and shoot it. My 20" WOA SDM with 77smk and very well known 23.6gr 8208XBR load is 2725fps and stupid accurate. I have zero issues shooting @ 800yd.

My 20" Rainier Ultramatch Gen1 ( Shilen) same load as above is 2772... 77cc with 23.6gr 2725...

20" Keystone Krieger 77smk 23.6gr 8208XBR IS 2753..

So with 77smk and my load in all these barrels...2800 is fast..

Which of those barrels shoots the best?

 

[Teflon16]

Here my accuracy with my 77smk 23.6gr 8208 load

Well after some tuning 25.0 grains of Varget was getting me ~2720 FPS which should keep me super sonic through 900. And the groupings were great.

 

[padom]

Which of those barrels shoots the best?

The 20" WOA SDM and the 20" WOA Bartlein 4groove.....

 

[nrspence]

Looks like 23.6 grains of 8208 with 75s and 77s is money, glad I got 5lbs.

 

[mr_fullmetal]

Anyone have some luck with StarBall Match with 77smk? Since xbr8208 has been out of stock for so long I need something else

 

[ncyotecaller]

Anyone have some luck with StarBall Match with 77smk? Since xbr8208 has been out of stock for so long I need something else

N135 works great for the 75 ELD-M

 

[Rob01]

Yup N135 or even N140 will work.

 

[MarkyMark007]

want some help pls with 223 for long range...

I'm strugling with F-TR 223REM with Sierra 95gr MK, at 1000m. I'm runing them at ~2730fps from 32' barrel, 1:7'' twist.
Water line at 1000m is barely 1MOA, a lot of the time approaching 2MOA...
Brass is Lapua, primer from CCI or Murom or Sellier&Belot, powder Vihtavuori N140 or Reload Swiss 50.
I'm using 0.080' or 0.060' jump, which is ~2,650' OAL and this gave me sometimes <0.5MOA groups at 600y....

What are your experiences with 223 (and Sierra 95gr MK) for LR ?