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223 version of the RPR
- Thread starter D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷
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Could the members who have actually taken delivery of a 223 RPR comment on any issues you've seen with cratering and/or blanking of primers, as well as throat length with given bullets?
Well I ended up just buying one to see how these shoot. I should have it out within the next week or two. The rifle is supposed to come in this Friday and the optics on Monday. I will post the results of the throat and primer cratering when I break the thing in.
Using brand new Lapua brass and 75 gr Hornady OTM projectiles. First time out and haven't tried any factory loads yet. Started out near the bottom of the range per the Hornady reloading guide out of my 20 barrel. No other primer overpressure signs including no flattened primers and no swipes. I've been handloading for years and have never seen it this bad. Using XBR and CCI small rifle primers. NO compressed loads.
Also, the bullet is set .20 off the lands per my comparator. Accuracy was dead nuts awesome all across all ranges.
Also, the bullet is set .20 off the lands per my comparator. Accuracy was dead nuts awesome all across all ranges.
The ladders are in the magneto speed app screenshot. I measured one group, the 21.8 gr of XBR. It was 0.68". The rest of them were all sub MOA.
I was kind of wondering the same thing. Did you mean to say the opposite. What is a Hornady OTM, did you mean to type ELD? Those primers look scary!!!!!!!!!!! I would have shutdown way before going that far
You are seeing a lot of cratering even at mild loads... I see you are using CCI primers, they wouldn't be CCI400? Those would do it to you since they have the thinnest cups and is not meant to be used for high pressure loads..... Would suggest Rem 7 1/2 or better still Wolf SRM.
I was using 400s. I didn't see ANY other pressure signs, though. I reloaded the same ladder with CCI#41s this time around. I'll post the results.
So I finally got my RPR out to test it out and I found the same thing going on with the primers that Cobra is having. I shot 30 rounds of factory ammo and 48 rounds of hand loads. My hand loads were all at or below published max loads using new Lapua brass, CCI BR primers, Varget, or Benchmark Powder, and 75 grain Hornady Match or 80 grain ELDM bullets. The factory ammo I shot was all 55 grain ammo that varied from Wolf Gold, Fiocchi, Federal AE 223, CBC M193, and Gecco. With the factory ammo, all the rounds that chrono'd over 3200 ft/sec had the serious cratering problem that Cobra is seeing. Wolf Gold and CBC were the worst of the group of factory rounds. This is the only rifle I have that I've noticed this with. And honestly it's a cause of concern for me.
Now for my hand loads, I never really got up past 2680 ft/sec with any of my loads, so the cratering wasn't as pronounced but I did notice that it started. Overall, I was getting really good accuracy with Varget. Benchmark and the 80 grain ELD didn't work, and Benchmark with the 75 grain HM was better, but not ideal. All shots were at 100 yards. I averaged 0.587 inch groups over 12 rounds of 4 different charge weights using 75 grain Hornady Match Bullets and I averaged 0.607" groups over 12 rounds of 4 different charge weights using the 80 grain ELDM. My best group measured 0.157". Note that these were all 3 shot groups, but I don't have the time to reload or shoot 5 shot groups for initial load development so I go with 3 to get an idea of what velocities look like at given charge weights. Considering the above averages were over 12 rounds, I feel like that is a good indicator that the rifle is a shooter though.
Using the 80 grain ELDM, a CCI BR4, Lapua Brass, and 24.0 grains of Varget, I was getting an average velocity of 2622 ft/sec. I'm really looking to push up the charges as I'm not getting the velocity that I'm looking for, but I'm reluctant to do so given the primer cratering issue. I think it kind of sucks that the RPR is listed as chambered for 5.56, but has significant primer cratering using 5.56 pressure factory ammo. I don't see this with any of my AR's or Remington 700 shooting the same ammo. I will post pics of the factory brass that I shot tomorrow.
Now for my hand loads, I never really got up past 2680 ft/sec with any of my loads, so the cratering wasn't as pronounced but I did notice that it started. Overall, I was getting really good accuracy with Varget. Benchmark and the 80 grain ELD didn't work, and Benchmark with the 75 grain HM was better, but not ideal. All shots were at 100 yards. I averaged 0.587 inch groups over 12 rounds of 4 different charge weights using 75 grain Hornady Match Bullets and I averaged 0.607" groups over 12 rounds of 4 different charge weights using the 80 grain ELDM. My best group measured 0.157". Note that these were all 3 shot groups, but I don't have the time to reload or shoot 5 shot groups for initial load development so I go with 3 to get an idea of what velocities look like at given charge weights. Considering the above averages were over 12 rounds, I feel like that is a good indicator that the rifle is a shooter though.
Using the 80 grain ELDM, a CCI BR4, Lapua Brass, and 24.0 grains of Varget, I was getting an average velocity of 2622 ft/sec. I'm really looking to push up the charges as I'm not getting the velocity that I'm looking for, but I'm reluctant to do so given the primer cratering issue. I think it kind of sucks that the RPR is listed as chambered for 5.56, but has significant primer cratering using 5.56 pressure factory ammo. I don't see this with any of my AR's or Remington 700 shooting the same ammo. I will post pics of the factory brass that I shot tomorrow.
I picked up my RPR 223/556 a week ago; also cratering primers.....Its not a pressure issue, it's a firing pin hole issue. Also, my throat is fairly short. I can't remember off the top of my head, but the 80 grain ELD was at 2.4 and change with my Hornady gauge.
I took my 5.56 RPR out for the first time today.
Vortex PST 4-16x50
Vortex CM-202 mount
PWS Keymod bipod mount
This is my first chassis rifle. It has the brake slightly canted like many others; the folding stock button has been VERY stiff (as in tapped with a dead blow to unlock stiff) but is getting easier with use. Also, the folding stock rubs on the folder mechanism a bit as it folds flat against the rifle itself, leaving a bit of exposed metal. Not a huge deal but quite disappointing after dropping $1100. Trigger felt VERY good, and the action is unbelievably fast to manipulate. Ruger-branded magazines fed 100% and look to be available at various retailers online for <$30.
I fired 60 rounds:
20 Wolf Gold 223 55gr
10 77gr Nosler CC/23.5gr XBR thrown loads (generic AR Mk262 clone) in mixed brass with CCI-450
10 IMI Razor Core 5.56 77gr Match
20 80gr Amax @ 2.45" - 24.0/24.2/24.4/24.6gr Varget in Lapua virgin brass with CCI-450
I blanked two primers, rounds 3 and 5 with the IMI Razor Core 5.56 load. I experienced a bit of primer cratering, from very mild to "that one almost popped", with every round of IMI. No issues with my 77gr/23.5gr XBR load, no issues with Wolf Gold, and only the slightest cratering with the 24.6gr Varget/80gr Amax load. Accuracy from the Wolf Gold was garbage; I've had better accuracy at 200yd from a Savage with UMC 55gr Metal Case. The IMI was very good, putting four into a ~0.6" cluster at 113yd before I called the last shot a flier 1/2" out at 3 o'clock - its good stuff!
It looks like there's a good accuracy node around 24.2gr Varget with the 80gr Amax, so I think I'm going to explore that more and probably push toward reaching the next node around 25.0gr.
Vortex PST 4-16x50
Vortex CM-202 mount
PWS Keymod bipod mount
This is my first chassis rifle. It has the brake slightly canted like many others; the folding stock button has been VERY stiff (as in tapped with a dead blow to unlock stiff) but is getting easier with use. Also, the folding stock rubs on the folder mechanism a bit as it folds flat against the rifle itself, leaving a bit of exposed metal. Not a huge deal but quite disappointing after dropping $1100. Trigger felt VERY good, and the action is unbelievably fast to manipulate. Ruger-branded magazines fed 100% and look to be available at various retailers online for <$30.
I fired 60 rounds:
20 Wolf Gold 223 55gr
10 77gr Nosler CC/23.5gr XBR thrown loads (generic AR Mk262 clone) in mixed brass with CCI-450
10 IMI Razor Core 5.56 77gr Match
20 80gr Amax @ 2.45" - 24.0/24.2/24.4/24.6gr Varget in Lapua virgin brass with CCI-450
I blanked two primers, rounds 3 and 5 with the IMI Razor Core 5.56 load. I experienced a bit of primer cratering, from very mild to "that one almost popped", with every round of IMI. No issues with my 77gr/23.5gr XBR load, no issues with Wolf Gold, and only the slightest cratering with the 24.6gr Varget/80gr Amax load. Accuracy from the Wolf Gold was garbage; I've had better accuracy at 200yd from a Savage with UMC 55gr Metal Case. The IMI was very good, putting four into a ~0.6" cluster at 113yd before I called the last shot a flier 1/2" out at 3 o'clock - its good stuff!
It looks like there's a good accuracy node around 24.2gr Varget with the 80gr Amax, so I think I'm going to explore that more and probably push toward reaching the next node around 25.0gr.
Yoteski, I am having this problem with my RPR 223 and was glad to find this post. I was very concerned thinking it was a pressure issue, knowing I was not near a max load. Does anyone else feel this could be a pin problem? The load I am using is one very near what I found to work very well in My CZ 527 with no problems.
I think it depends on the powder chosen. I'm running 8208 and I have no velocity increase in my 24" bartlien in my bolt gun from my 20" krieger in my DMR. Running the exact same load. A slower powder may be different.
113 yards, 5 rounds
80gr Amax @ 2.45" COAL, 24.9gr Varget, Lapua virgin brass, CCI-450 (no pierced primers)
I suspect the flier wasn't the rifle, but either neck tension on the virgin brass or perhaps my driving. Either way, not too shabby. I plan to proof the load and get velocity next time out.
80gr Amax @ 2.45" COAL, 24.9gr Varget, Lapua virgin brass, CCI-450 (no pierced primers)
I suspect the flier wasn't the rifle, but either neck tension on the virgin brass or perhaps my driving. Either way, not too shabby. I plan to proof the load and get velocity next time out.
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80 grain ELD over Varget seated at 2.450. Running suppressed. No velocity numbers yet.
I'm getting the most accuracy out of 24.0 grains of Varget using the 80 grain ELD as well. I'm getting about 2610 ft/sec with that load using CCI BR primers and virgin lapua brass. I was kind of curious what kinds of velocity people are getting with XBR 8208, but given that Varget is about 0.5 MOA for me, I don't see the need to switch. I've given up on trying to push the 80 gr ELD to 1000 yds.
113 yards, 5 rounds
80gr Amax @ 2.45" COAL, 24.9gr Varget, Lapua virgin brass, CCI-450 (no pierced primers)
I suspect the flier wasn't the rifle, but either neck tension on the virgin brass or perhaps my driving. Either way, not too shabby. I plan to proof the load and get velocity next time out.
How are you getting that OAL? I measured mine with a comparator, but it was much shorter than what your loading at.
Cartridge base to bullet tip.
After unboxing I used a Hornady LnL comparator and got something in the 2.42" range IIRC; I decided to load up a bunch at 2.45" (can always seat them shorter, right?) and ran a mag through the rifle and didn't see any indication of a jam on the bullets.
Wow. I did the same with mine and got much shorter, albeit on a different projectile.
Anyone able to get some numbers with the 75 Gr Hornady OTM?
Has anybody determined a resolution for the primer cratering issue? Just wondering if Ruger will offer a fix or recommendation. Bush the boltface, oversize firing pin, weaker spring?
I've a lot of interest in a .223 RPR to go with my .243 and already have a loose Viper PST to mount. I also have a 700 .223 that craters primers, and while not a serious issue, not something I'm interested in repeating. Looking for some direction, thanks.
I've a lot of interest in a .223 RPR to go with my .243 and already have a loose Viper PST to mount. I also have a 700 .223 that craters primers, and while not a serious issue, not something I'm interested in repeating. Looking for some direction, thanks.
I haven't reached out to Ruger about my 5.56 RPR cratering primers...figure if I start to run into issues I can always send it to Gre-Tan.
Any more results/info? Looking at buying one. My other option is the Tikka varmint route. The Tikka would need a stock/chassis and muzzle threaded.
I agree 100% that a 20" barrel on a "precision" .223 is definitely on the short side. 24" would have been best in order to match the 6mm and 6.5mm RPR and work as a trainer. Also, the added velocity is nice that is attained with 4" more barrel length.
I don't think there is much efficiency gained in the additional barrel length after 20 inches for 556. My rpr is already heavy enough, personally I don't miss the extra length especially when I slap my Omega on the end of it, after the ATF says I can.
I don't have a 223 bolt rifle. But ARs set up for longer engagements usually run 18-20" barrels. I'm with tomcatfan. Even if I don't go with the Ruger and get the Tikka, it's getting cut to 20 and threaded so I can put my Arbitor on the end and not be obnoxiously long. But its all personal preference.
Have not seen much about the cratering issue as of late. I think that I have solved my concerns by going back to Sierra 69 HPBT from Hornady ELD 75. But I need some help on getting the trigger a bit lighter. I had read that some were removing the adj. spring on RPR. Has anyone did this on the 223? Thanks
Proof doesn't have them listed yet but I'm sure they are in the works.
https://www.proofresearch.com/the-products/barrels/ruger-pre-fit-barrel/
Interesting. Have my 12 yo son that I'm looking to move up from RF to CF. Thought about the 6CM. Thought about a Remington 223 rifle and take the action and put it in a chassis that I could then swap for a 308ish action later. Put the 223 action back into the original stock and sell it off.
Sorry if I missed it, but this is shorter than the action(not compatible with) the 308/6/6.5 rifles? The mags are smaller? Shoot it and maybe someone would make an integral suppressor 300BO barrel? It probably is all that most people need. How many local comps go past 600m?
Why not a Wylde chamber?
Sorry if I missed it, but this is shorter than the action(not compatible with) the 308/6/6.5 rifles? The mags are smaller? Shoot it and maybe someone would make an integral suppressor 300BO barrel? It probably is all that most people need. How many local comps go past 600m?
Why not a Wylde chamber?
shot my rpr 223 yesterday a little to see if there was a cratering issue. it ran the factory ammo i had just fine and the handloads i made for pressure checking ran just fine as well until i hit book max on xbr8208, that started to crater. my only complaint right now is the 20" barrel is slow but it only has 20 rounds on it so hopefully it'll speed up
So I've been reading this and I realize I'm odd man out since most of you are reloading for this and I'm not (yet). Wanted to post a quick pic or two of how it went this weekend. I haven't shot it much but so far I'm impressed. I had some factory stuff here so I grabbed a few different boxes and threw them in to see how it would do. Didn't take long to find out it likes 69gr Sierra more than heavy Hornady.
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Anybody have any luck with the RDF's in this rifle? I have around 400 or so left over that my AR didn't like. I just pick up a RPR in 223 and it has impressed me so far. I got some 55 gr handloads left over from an AR I don't even have any more and it put 5 rounds into .330 group and 10 rounds of Fedral 77 gr Gold Medal into just over .5. Looking to try the RDF's I have laying around, I've had excellent results with the 140 grainers out too 1200.
To those who have these rifles I have a few questions.
1. Has anyone actually had primers pierced? If so, what was frequency, type of ammo, and primers used if your own ammo (full load data would be great) was loaded?
2. When experiencing the cratering do you know how much your shoulders are growing?
3. If you have loaded from once fired brass already fired in your chamber, how much did you bump the shoulders back, and did the primers still crater?
4. If the primers did still crater after reloading brass fired through the chamber, was it any better than unfired brass, factory ammo, or once fired brass sized all the way back to SAAMI?
I've been considering picking one of these up and I'm just trying to determine whether the issue or a non issue or if I should wait for Ruger to issue a fix, or buy something else instead.
1. Has anyone actually had primers pierced? If so, what was frequency, type of ammo, and primers used if your own ammo (full load data would be great) was loaded?
2. When experiencing the cratering do you know how much your shoulders are growing?
3. If you have loaded from once fired brass already fired in your chamber, how much did you bump the shoulders back, and did the primers still crater?
4. If the primers did still crater after reloading brass fired through the chamber, was it any better than unfired brass, factory ammo, or once fired brass sized all the way back to SAAMI?
I've been considering picking one of these up and I'm just trying to determine whether the issue or a non issue or if I should wait for Ruger to issue a fix, or buy something else instead.
I don't have but about 100 rounds through mine, but I have primer cratering with everything I've tried so far. Factory federal gold metal 77 at 2675fps, some 55 grain nosler ballistic tips loaded with 23.4 gr AA2250, and 70 grain nosler RDF's load from 23.6 up to 25.2 of XBR 8208. All loads showed the same amount of cratering with the exception of the 25.2 which had one blown primer. Other than the cratering no other pressure sign were present except for 25.0 and 25.2 which showed very slight flattening of the primers. All primers were federal gold metal match. Brass for the 55 grain loads was twice fired mixed Lake City brass, the RDF loads was new unfire Lake City 16. I have not had a chance to measure case growth and I havnt loaded any of the brass used again so I can't comment on shoulder bump (I was planning on about 0.0015-0.002). So far its proven to be very accurate for a new Box stock rifle most everything has been under or at .5 moa
I blanked primers on two rounds of IMI Razor Core 5.56 77gr OTM with air temps in the mid-upper 70s; the rest of the box showed moderate to heavy cratering but no other blanks.
My current load is 24.9gr Varget in Lapua brass under a 80gr Amax @ 2.45" COAL, and CCI-450s show a little cratering (every single round I've put through this rifle does - even factory 223 Rem) but I've seen worse in other rifles.
FWIW, I emailed Ruger and the said they wanted my rifle back to investigate the pierced primers - to this point I haven't taken them up on their offer.
My current load is 24.9gr Varget in Lapua brass under a 80gr Amax @ 2.45" COAL, and CCI-450s show a little cratering (every single round I've put through this rifle does - even factory 223 Rem) but I've seen worse in other rifles.
FWIW, I emailed Ruger and the said they wanted my rifle back to investigate the pierced primers - to this point I haven't taken them up on their offer.
I bought mine right after it was announced before the election. I've put maybe a 100 rounds through it using Wolf Gold 55gr (cheap break in), PPU .223 75gr BTHP Match, and IMI 77gr OTM. I have yet to experience a single primer issue. My only complaint about the gun is the magazine, most ranges where I shot do not allow more than one round in the chamber at a time beyond 200yrds even in bolt guns. This make reloading the 556 EPR a real pain.
What mags are you running? Mine came with the ruger version of the AI mags and single feeds just fine.
Honestly? Not really sure - I've had trouble getting my Magnetospeed V2 properly attached to the barrel and haven't had the opportunity to stretch it out.
I suspect somewhere in the 2800fps range.
Thanks I picked up a box of 80 gr ELD's today and was just curious what I might see out of them.
I guess I've got a really slow barrel. My best accuracy is around 2610 ft/sec using 24.2 gr of Varget. But the most I was able to get crunching kernels was only 2680 ft/sec up at 25.0 gr of Varget. I tried benchmark and didn't get the accuracy or speed that Varget had. All were using lapua brass and CCI BR primers loaded right at the lands.
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