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50 Bmg Blow up....
- Thread starter frank320
- Start date
What does ACP Mean?
Automatic Colt Pistol.
Who do you think he can successfully sue? It won't be Serbu. He admits to loading a cartridge of dubious manufacture into the gun that was hot hot hot. In other words, he put something into the gun that the gun was not designed to handle. The video is going to get used against him.
Yep if he wanted to sue he would not have put out that video cucking himself. But he comes across as a serbu fanboy. That Serbu cock must be mighty tasty.......
so in all fairness, 3/4" sch 80 black pipe has a burst pressure rating of 17,600 psi
according to SAAMI, max working pressure on a 12G 3" shell is 11,500 psi.
and considering true chamber pressure on the black pipe shotgun will be less than that because there is no restriction, nor am i guessing are you shooting anything other than clay loads......
frankly ide trust the Home Depot Home Defender long before i trust a RN 50.......hell, ive not heard any stories about them blowing up, which means they definitely have a safety record that surpasses the RN50
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Serbu mentioned counterfeit ammunition.
At $100 a round that’s certainly a possibility.
I’m more suspicious of the ammo than the rifle.
At $100 a round that’s certainly a possibility.
I’m more suspicious of the ammo than the rifle.
1) they have no proof the ammo was actually counterfeit.....or was at fault at all.
Not saying it wasn't, but without inspecting the gun and doing a forensic engineering analysis, you can't say for sure......for him to come out and claim "yeah it was definitely the ammo and you have nothing to worry about" is borderline negligence.
2) even assuming it was the ammo that caused the kaboom.
..the design is still at fault, for the reason listed in this thread, it was not designed to fail safely...which is engineering 101.....especially on a simple design like a single shot where you can easily get away with over building it without compromising function.
I was picturing in my head the equivalent attitude in other products. It's like selling someone a car with a giant knife mounted to the steering wheel pointed at the driver. Hey, if you don't crash it's perfectly safe!
I would say it was the ammo but usually when manufacturing rifles you blow one up to see the extreme conditions and then make your determinations if you should make changes for the what if but you design for standard ammo . I assumed that as long as you didn't have an obstruction in the barrel that it wouldn't blow up like it did since the bullet is being pushed out. Hearing Serbu say it detonated I'm assuming the round turned into a bomb.
You saying a standard bolt configuration would be safer with those pressures?
.50 Cal Blows Up in Shooter's Face
A 50 cal rifle suffered a catastrophic failure and the bolt blew back out from the rifle and embedded itself in the man's neck.
The blown up rifle video is hard to watch. Glad the guy lived to tell the story.
That was an awful, rambling response from the manufacturer....
That their post action analysis is blowing up another gun to record and see how it detonates, and determine what level of pressure will cause a catastrophic failure tells you they never even thought to do it before when they built and tested the gun.
This reminds me of that pedophile from RedJacket rifles, Will Hayden. If he wasn't doing a life stint in prison he'd be a dead ringer for this clown show
You saying a standard bolt configuration would be safer with those pressures?
.50 Cal Blows Up in Shooter's Face
A 50 cal rifle suffered a catastrophic failure and the bolt blew back out from the rifle and embedded itself in the man's neck.www.military.com
Cheaply built .50 BMG rifles along with "surplus" ammunition of unknown vintage and provenance are a disaster waiting to happen.
About the cheapest I'd go on a .50 BMG is the Armalite AR-50 A1
Not exactly the same thing, but many years back on SH, there was a thread where somebody posted a video of them shooting an Accuracy International .50 rifle where one of the cases had a case head separation/rupture, it blew out the safety relief plugs on the rifle, but they didn't even notice it and kept on shooting and didn't realize what happened until they inspected the fired brass and watched the video.
Accuracy International USA advised them the rifle needed to go back to the factory for inspection and maintenance.
A friend of mine had a near complete case head rupture on a .308 Accuracy International AE Mark II, but apart from being shook up and having powder all over one hand, he was unharmed. The steel magazine was bulged and the bolt was sticky, but the rifle still functioned. It went back to the factory for inspection and was repaired.
That is examples of rifles specifically built to handle things going kaboom without injuring the shooter.
If the bolt lugs are able to be sheared off and send the bolt flying back to you, somebody really messed up in design / manufacture.
Accuracy International USA advised them the rifle needed to go back to the factory for inspection and maintenance.
A friend of mine had a near complete case head rupture on a .308 Accuracy International AE Mark II, but apart from being shook up and having powder all over one hand, he was unharmed. The steel magazine was bulged and the bolt was sticky, but the rifle still functioned. It went back to the factory for inspection and was repaired.
That is examples of rifles specifically built to handle things going kaboom without injuring the shooter.
If the bolt lugs are able to be sheared off and send the bolt flying back to you, somebody really messed up in design / manufacture.
One poor design doesn't make another poor design acceptable.You saying a standard bolt configuration would be safer with those pressures?
.50 Cal Blows Up in Shooter's Face
A 50 cal rifle suffered a catastrophic failure and the bolt blew back out from the rifle and embedded itself in the man's neck.
Also, there is no such thing as a "standard" bolt configuration.....the safety is going to depend on how the rest of the system is built
A standard bolt gun, like a Remmy is good for 120,000 PSI. Some brass cased military ammo is loaded to 70,000 PSI and then fired in Remmy 700s. People on this site routinely load in excess of 70,000 PSI and brag about how they’re getting PRC ballistics out of their Creedmoors. Not too long ago some SH member broke both lugs off his custom action but the bolt stayed in the receiver.
Designing a modern rifle where 85,000 PSI blows it to pieces is outright negligent.
Designing a modern rifle where 85,000 PSI blows it to pieces is outright negligent.
I’d be very worried if I was mark serbu.
sounds like he hasn’t tested his platform one not to know much pressure it could take. He didn’t even have a rough number from a computer program to say the pressure it would take.
if be curious to know if his literature says no SLAP rounds anywhere on it.
it’s not unreasonable for a man to think that a 50bmg Round would be unsafe to fire in his 50 bmg. How would he know not to shoot a SLAP round in it?
when his gun failed it failed in such a way that everything goes straight back to the shooter with no fail safes, pressure relief, anything at all to protect the user.
car manufactures make their cars safer for the user to avoid liability.
if I’m on that jury I want to know from mark serbu, what did you do in designing your firearm to protect the user, what testing did the rifle go through to be deemed safe to use, and what is the failure point. Seems he did none of these things to me. His video confirmed it.
I highly doubt that you will ever see the user of a hoplite arms by @THEIS rifle almost killing the user from a cartridge with the correct headstamp being used in it.
Exactly. A rifle designed with a 25% safety margin is completely negligent.
a damn ratchet strap has a 300% safety margin
Figured someone else would remember the Royal Nonesuch Theater from Mark Twain!!!
Why on earth would you name anything after idiots... ????
Sirhr
You saying a standard bolt configuration would be safer with those pressures?
.50 Cal Blows Up in Shooter's Face
A 50 cal rifle suffered a catastrophic failure and the bolt blew back out from the rifle and embedded itself in the man's neck.
I can't tell the model of the gun from that video... would be amusing it was also made by Mark Serbu lol.
A modern gun with 4 what looks like 4 threads of engagement with NO safety vents is just silly and a disaster waiting to happen. He says he's shipped 1400? and this is the first one that's failed....
Barret shipped probably 10x that number of semiauto and bolt action 416/50cals and I haven't seen anyone end up this inquired.
No offense personally:
However, you shit on a lot of "potential examples" with this post.
Funny you should mention ratchet straps.
A cheap ass Hazzard Fraught tools strap has a 300% safety margin.
Chinese slave labor would make a better rifle than Serbu
@THEIS this seems like a good opportunity for some product placement for a gun that WONT blowup with a large viewer base.
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IF I remember correctly, doesn’t the Barrett owners manual for the 99 say no “bore rider” style bullets? It’s been a long time since I looked at it, and since I sold my 50 all the paperwork went with it. I believe I saw that somewhere. Pretty sure it was for the same reason of excess pressure and that gun not being designed to shoot those on a regular basis. Someone please tell me I’m wrong if I am imagining things.
I would imagine a reputable company like Barrett would have something like that in their manual. Curious if Serbu did
Watched a couple of his other videos and he has fired a few SLAP rounds in that rifle without
incident but that one particular round grenaded the gun.
While the screw breech setup definitely seems flimsy its possible that it was more than just a high pressure round
maybe it detonated, I dont know. Before this never heard of Serbu.
Many years ago CBC recalled a bunch of surplus 7.62 ammo that was blowing up rifles. Before the recall I fired over 300 rounds
of that ammo through my M1A without incident and pulled the bullets on another 150 or so and reloaded them years later.
It was said that pistol powder was erroneously used on some of that lot of ammo.
Point being that all the guns were safe until bad ammunition was used.
incident but that one particular round grenaded the gun.
While the screw breech setup definitely seems flimsy its possible that it was more than just a high pressure round
maybe it detonated, I dont know. Before this never heard of Serbu.
Many years ago CBC recalled a bunch of surplus 7.62 ammo that was blowing up rifles. Before the recall I fired over 300 rounds
of that ammo through my M1A without incident and pulled the bullets on another 150 or so and reloaded them years later.
It was said that pistol powder was erroneously used on some of that lot of ammo.
Point being that all the guns were safe until bad ammunition was used.
I had a mini Cooper that I ran a 200 shot of NOS through....and the motor held together......until it didn't.
So the fact that the gun held together for several rounds of that particular ammo doesn't necessarily mean it's "safe"
There very well could have been stress cracking, fatigue, or stretching going on in that threaded cap.
For all we know it could have been any type of ammo that would've blown that up if that was the case.
Frankly without inspecting the gun and tracking down the source of the ammo, we can't say for sure what exactly caused the kaboom
however, it's how the gun failed that is concerning, not so much as to why
Folks here need to know first that the KB rifle was specially chambered with a machine gun chambering for 50bmg so that it can shoot the SLAP round. This is mentioned in a previous video. Whether it's properly chambered as such is another question.
The SLAP round that he fired was purchased but no one knows whether it's genuine military surplus or a reload.
The barrel was not obstructed when it blew up, as shown by the fact that he successfully shot a full size projectile right before this kaboom, and he even found that projectile on the target.
The 85k psi is the minimum (allegedly) that could shear off those threads. How much pressure actually went off is unknown.
I hope kentucky ballistics make a full recovery, and practice more safety after this. There's lots of guntubers that need to practice better safety practices in their videos.
The SLAP round that he fired was purchased but no one knows whether it's genuine military surplus or a reload.
The barrel was not obstructed when it blew up, as shown by the fact that he successfully shot a full size projectile right before this kaboom, and he even found that projectile on the target.
The 85k psi is the minimum (allegedly) that could shear off those threads. How much pressure actually went off is unknown.
I hope kentucky ballistics make a full recovery, and practice more safety after this. There's lots of guntubers that need to practice better safety practices in their videos.
That Gepard is fascinating. I love this quote from Wikipedia, "An even shorter paratrooper variant dubbed M2A2 made it more favorable to airborne forces and special forces, especially because it could be fired from the hip".
I am in the plumbing industry and I deal with the same shit. Every year it seems to get worse and worse. People think that because something is made by a company and comes in a box then it must be good to go.
Hi,
So instead of throwing up some FEA and/or alloy property sheets to show what pressures it "should" take to have such failures...we go with the "Guns blow up everyday" approach??
Want to instill confidence in your potential court case and your customer base......throw up some dynamic and static FEA so people can see where your rifle "should" fail at and that there is no way that real SLAP rounds even loaded poorly could cause such failure.
That the only way to get said failure would be to intentionally load them incorrectly.....(Not Kentucky guy himself as he already mentioned he purchased the ammo)
Note: Those 2 bolded words are tremendously different when in the context of this situation.
Sincerely,
Theis
So instead of throwing up some FEA and/or alloy property sheets to show what pressures it "should" take to have such failures...we go with the "Guns blow up everyday" approach??
Want to instill confidence in your potential court case and your customer base......throw up some dynamic and static FEA so people can see where your rifle "should" fail at and that there is no way that real SLAP rounds even loaded poorly could cause such failure.
That the only way to get said failure would be to intentionally load them incorrectly.....(Not Kentucky guy himself as he already mentioned he purchased the ammo)
Note: Those 2 bolded words are tremendously different when in the context of this situation.
Sincerely,
Theis
Hi,
LOLOLOL Not even close to the same customer base Serbu operates in........
I would have better sales percentage of putting a 20 pound ham on sale in Saudi Arabia during Ramadan.
Sincerely,
Theis
I’d agree, but as you can tell, even people that frequent this forum watch his videos. Wouldn’t be a bad way to start getting the hoplite name out.
People like him and demo ranch is how you can reach a giant number of people to start getting the name out. Their videos get shared far and wide and have a wide reaching viewer base.
call em out and Have em put hits on steel at a mile. It’ll get views and video shared far and wide.
But smokeless powder does not, by definition, detonate like a high explosive.
it deflagrates which is a fancy word for burn really fast.
so I don’t understand how/why he introduces the D word.
Hi,
I am pretty damn sure you will not. I have several different design features dedicated to keeping that from happening. Along with over 100k of outside independent engineering/testing firms crunching data, lol.
Here is my quote from the Hoplite Arms thread that goes into a little detail of just 1 feature.
OK everyone; by now most have seen the recent circulating video of a youtuber blowing up his Serbu BMG and all the in's/out's of that discussion.
So I wanted to take a moment to show/highlight a design feature (Other than the Aermet 100 for the bolt and breech cylinder) that deals with and handles an overpressure situation while keeping the shooter better protected.
As some of you may or may not have noticed; we do not have a gas port on our receivers.
That is because we have designed/utilize a different safety mechanism into the rifle.
Here is a picture of a closed bolt. Notice the bolt lugs are secured onto the breech cylinder lugs. (T&E RIFLE...production model has way smaller firing pin and firing pin hole along with how the bolt looks, lol)
Notice at that point since the action does not have raceways; that there is 3 openings (each a bolt lug width) for overgas to flow after escaping from the boltface. That flow will go rearward past the breech cylinder area.
Here is picture showing what the bolt looks like when closed in the breech cylinder (bottom view).
Notice the full diameter bolt body has an "interruption" by design. That interruption is a purposely designed gap that acts as an overflow gas channel.
Here is a picture of the bolt with breech cylinder removed so that you can once again see the shape/angle of the full diameter bolt body when in the breech cylinder will act as a gas deflection feature.
All this to direct and dump any overflow gas to and down the magazine well instead of following the receiver raceways to the shooter or needing to have gas ports in the receiver body itself.
Sincerely,
Theis
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To piggy back on this......this is what industry calls "defensive engineering".
Does everyone in school remember that one kid who they didn't trust with real scissors, so they gave him those blunted plastic scissors that didn't really cut anything???.....yeah, there was one in every class, and they have all grown up and are buying your products........and unfortunately you have an ethical obligation to keep him from killing himself.
Now before you all start quoting darwinism, I agree with you, and the other thing you need to realize is Defensive engineering is entirely self serving.
When Forrest Gump manages to hurt himself with your product....
You ARE going to be sued.......and unfortunately, courts put the onus on manufacturers to prove their design was as safe as could be, and that Forrest had to actually try to hurt himself.
This requires us to look at our designs through a different lense.....as any moron can make a product work......it takes time and money to make a product work, and make it "retard proof".
We NEED to do failure analysis
We NEED to show that we meet or exceed industry standards
We NEED to show all the methods our design can fail, and the parameters behind that failure
And we NEED to prove that if a person got hurt with our product, that they wouldve gotten hurt no matter who's product they were using.
If we cannot do that, the courts are going to hold us responsible(whether we truly were or not)....and more importantly, the potential customers will hold us responsible, and our sales will suffer.
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So you are saying Serbu is fubared. That is when the next guy blows himself up cause this guy comes across as a fanboy that is not going to sue. That is till some ambulance chaser starts whispering in his ear lulz.
if i was his lawyer, i would have him pull every fucking videos hes made off youtube and have him "find" all of the research and development and testing that went into the RN50......and have him do it yesterday.
hes already up shits creek being a firearms manufacturer.....and hes done nothing but drill holes in his boat with every fucking videos he posts online......all a half decent prosecutor needs to do is get up there and show the videos of Beavis and Butt-head laughing about a ND in the shop and that will seal it in the jurys mind.
he is going to be very lucky if KB decides not to sue.....and if i were mark, i would recall each RN50 sold before it has a chance to injure someone who isnt a total fanboy.
Actually, they would scarf that up like Oprah cheating on her diet...
There are plenty of 'princes' there who chow on bacon and drink Jack by the gallon. A ham during Ramadan.... that would sell on the black market for 10X Virginia prices and they'd sit in their closets slobbering it down like a python in a bunny cage.
But point taken... Your stuff is not anywhere in the league with pipe guns and 'sploding slap-ass rounds.
Saudi's pious and rule-following. For a lot of them it's only for the cameras, my friend... only for the cameras!
Cheers,
Sirhr.
PS. If you need a baggage porter in Dubai... I'm your man. Love that place. By which I mean I hate it. But love visiting it. You need a valet?
Can they leave the one video up with the blond tits , I was going to use it for testing to see if I can make my barrel explode .......
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