5000 meters+ Supersonic (*Updated with pics*)

[killer_penguin]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The resistance to emerging technologies and methods in long range shooting, specifically on this forum, is mind blowing.

If everyone had the same mindset as most here, we'd never have to worry about anything new getting invented... ever.

It is as if no one wants anything to exist unless they have a use for it. No care what so ever to whether there is a use for someone else, or even if its possible.

 

[groper]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

i wish you best of luck with your projects sao and anthony, its just my firm belief there is no military application for a rifle of this type and history has proven this. I was interested, (when i contacted you sao) but now i realize it would just be a waste of time.

Whats needed, is a replacement for the .50cal sniper rifle. I believe there is a serious need here. Something lighter, ballistically superior with less recoil and Dave Viers seems to be on the right track for this with his 375-416 veirs mag, and this stands much more likely to win a military contract IMHO.

Take care, sorry if i sounded disrespectful, i have a poor way with words sometimes...

 

[DP425]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Not really Anti-personal, but then again, Geneva doesn't approve of the 5-0 either. It is AM, with benefits...anti-grounded aircraft, tank, vehicle or whatever target might be in the way. </div></div>

Not sure if this was touched on yet but, you are under a very incorrect misconception- a rumor perpetuated through the halls of many of barracks and the stories of many unknowledgeable soldiers, NCO's, Officers and Drill Sergeants.

Geneva conventions have no clause limiting caliber of weapon for anti-personel.

As far as application of a 5000m capable sniper rifle? I simply do not see it- I agree with LowLight 100% on this one.

 

[badbot]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

groper
did you ever think there was a miltary need for a loud speaker?
I bet not but someone built LRAD.
there are many things you never would of thought of doing good things around the world.
on the bright side it's not you he needs to sell the idea/system to.

 

[goober]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Who ever the thought the States would need Twinkys and Cheese Whip -any things possible even if not practicle

 

[C.K]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i wish you best of luck with your projects sao and anthony, its just my firm belief there is no military application for a rifle of this type and history has proven this. I was interested, (when i contacted you sao) but now i realize it would just be a waste of time.

Whats needed, is a replacement for the .50cal sniper rifle. I believe there is a serious need here. Something lighter, ballistically superior with less recoil and Dave Viers seems to be on the right track for this with his 375-416 veirs mag, and this stands much more likely to win a military contract IMHO.

Take care, sorry if i sounded disrespectful, i have a poor way with words sometimes... </div></div>



Who the hell is talking about using this cartridge as a sniper rifle here? Its intended as hard target round.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

There is no application for a 5000 meter sniper rifle and hard target interdiction with a purpose built rifle is obsolete on today's battlefield, nor is practical.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK then. All we need to do now is introduce the question of Coriolis Effect and Spin Drift and we *might* have the Epic Thread.

Back to the unfolding drama.

John</div></div>

You forgot to mention getting drunk...

Trains....

Momma...

Prison....

rain....


and...pickup trucks...

 

[jrob300]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK then. All we need to do now is introduce the question of Coriolis Effect and Spin Drift and we *might* have the Epic Thread.

Back to the unfolding drama.

John</div></div>

You forgot to mention getting drunk...

Trains....

Momma...

Prison....

rain....


and...pickup trucks... </div></div>

John

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The M903 is a 355 grain tungsten penetrator. I tried to buy a smoothbore barrel for my Windrunner from Dean but the deal kinda fell through. He had shot it extensively and could not get it to shoot better than 2 to 3 MOA. It is just not that accurate and he had a lot of experience with the .50
He does not have much of a biz sense given all that has transpired here. Lots of bad Juju but the guy was a pioneer in the .50 and the .408CT. Anyways the SLAP round would take a butt-load of R&D to work that out.

 

[Emouse]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no application for a 5000 meter sniper rifle and hard target interdiction with a purpose built rifle is obsolete on today's battlefield, nor is practical. </div></div>

Exactly,...its an excercise in futility

 

[goober]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

My car can do 150 mph but doesn't meant I have to go that fast all the time but it can beat others up to that speed with ease -rather have the power in reserve than not at all.How far can a 50 cal on a hard target be effective for ?where it stops this baby turns on the nitro on and shows its arse to the rest .For a covert sniper team it may be not a practical carry but for a units tactical marksman it may just be the shizzz

 

[groper]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

One more thing occurred to me today whilst i was at work, something quite disturbing in fact...

It occurred to me that there IS a market for this weapon, a market in serious need... read on....

Whilst NATO forces have much better weapons for hard targets, i say NATO country forces dont have a need for this AMR because most of the hard targets are neutralized in a short time before the ground forces even make land fall via massive air and naval superiority etc. After that you have CAS, M1 Abrams, the list goes on... There is no way of defeating outright, a military opponent as vastly technologically superior as the US military. So the only way to fight is by guerilla tactics, and if i may use familiar and recent examples like vietnam, iraq, twice, and now afghanistan... where next, iran, north korea? whats the bet the same story will unfold up there??? They drag you into a ground war force you to fight with AK`s and M4`s, then blend into the population when theyre not holding a gun and wave as you drive past... They know its their only chance, to wear you down financially and politically.

Now imagine this... imagine if the iraqis or taliban bought thousands of these AMR rifles... plenty of hard targets for them to aim at from the rooftops and mountain tops? Little training required, low cost, low maintenance, easy to hide, perfect... Imagine US armour rolling into baghdad knowing there were thousands of these rifles hidden in the city pointed at you, no longer safe in your APC`s... imagine rolling thru those valley in afghanistan with the taliban no longer taking "pot shots" with RPG`s, but carefully aimed shots that have a much better chance of hitting the infidels...would change everything wouldnt it?

Thats the only market that needs this... i hope your ethics are up to scratch!

 

[Emouse]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing occurred to me today whilst i was at work, something quite disturbing in fact...

It occurred to me that there IS a market for this weapon, a market in serious need... read on....

Whilst NATO forces have much better weapons for hard targets, i say NATO country forces dont have a need for this AMR because most of the hard targets are neutralized in a short time before the ground forces even make land fall via massive air and naval superiority etc. After that you have CAS, M1 Abrams, the list goes on... There is no way of defeating outright, a military opponent as vastly technologically superior as the US military. So the only way to fight is by guerilla tactics, and if i may use familiar and recent examples like vietnam, iraq, twice, and now afghanistan... where next, iran, north korea? whats the bet the same story will unfold up there??? They drag you into a ground war force you to fight with AK`s and M4`s, then blend into the population when theyre not holding a gun and wave as you drive past... They know its their only chance, to wear you down financially and politically.

Now imagine this... imagine if the iraqis or taliban bought thousands of these AMR rifles... plenty of hard targets for them to aim at from the rooftops and mountain tops? Little training required, low cost, low maintenance, easy to hide, perfect... Imagine US armour rolling into baghdad knowing there were thousands of these rifles hidden in the city pointed at you, no longer safe in your APC`s... imagine rolling thru those valley in afghanistan with the taliban no longer taking "pot shots" with RPG`s, but carefully aimed shots that have a much better chance of hitting the infidels...would change everything wouldnt it?

Thats the only market that needs this... i hope your ethics are up to scratch!

</div></div>

Interesting thought,...unfortunately most third world nations already have access to wire guided munitions and other direct fire ( artillery) options that will happily engage at extended distance with minimal operator expertise, all thanks to cheap russian/chinese options and the plethora of clones distributed thru the former com-block.

 

[sharac]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Yeah real bummer if....


Where do the "real" weapons (nuke department & Co) come in or should we just cut our throats and record vids for Al jazeera in fear of what IF....

Edit: Just to add i think it's fine as an experimental endeavor which might have it's use (or not) and should be taken as such. Most (or a large number of) people here spend lots of $$$ on different tacticool, needed or not needed gizmos, rave about their equipment, squeezing thousands off their groups and never question a bit need or reason why they waste their time doing it.

 

[Gerard Schultz]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Groper,

I ask myself why you are so threatened by this, that you would stoop to the level where you question the ethics of those involved in the project. You have raised nothing but objections and obstacles. You are unnecessarily insulting and downright rude. I am curious to know why that is.

 

[bohem]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You forgot to mention getting drunk...

Trains....

Momma...

Prison....

rain....


and...pickup trucks... </div></div>

LMAO!

 

[C.K]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gerard Schultz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Groper,

I ask myself why you are so threatened by this, that you would stoop to the level where you question the ethics of those involved in the project. You have raised nothing but objections and obstacles. You are unnecessarily insulting and downright rude. I am curious to know why that is. </div></div>

If you can make a better mouse trap then do it, it seems to me thats whats going on here.

 

[Extremist458]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

I am beside myself...truly. For those that question my ethics, or my intent, I'll lay it all out there.

I am in the U.S. Navy, from the SpecWar community, and still cary a TS clearance...and I am in no hurry to lose that. I JUST got off working on the Navy's 20mm small arms projects and HTI/AMR/AMPR systems, where I still am connected. I still consult for the head of the Navy's Small Arms division. I currently teach CBR-NED (weapons of mass destruction) for the Navy, I'm still Military Law Enforcement and High Priority Security. I still assist in building and design rifles for my SpecWar frogs, and am currently working on a 4lb rifle system for the military that is designed to replace the M-16/M-4, 240, 249, M-60, M40 7.62 bolt rifle, CQB/CQC weapons and possibly more...and I have no interest in losing my job.

I also work for GS Custom Bullets without pay. I do not make money off of them, nor do I get free bullets for my work; I do it because I want to, and because I'm good at it. And the one thing I can attest to, without question, is there ethics.

Besides that, all those opposing forces mentioned above, already have access to every firearm the military uses, including the 14.5mm IWS2000 and M107. Many rifles from many builders have gone overseas, and I highly doubt Dave Viers will have ability or control over where his rifles end up. Which, by the way, GS Custom builds the bullets for that rifle, and have been an integral part of that project from it's inception. So no, this isn't the only rifle/projectile offered to our military from GS.

Now to the APFSDS, I give. You're all right, I only read manuals and observe Spec's supplied to me via my employment. Sorry guys, you are right, I'm not an expert on the subject. IF you say they are better, then so be it, and I guess myself and GS custom bullets will have to stand by and await our demise. But, until then, we will continue to build the Formula 1 bullets the world knows us for. You all have a nice day, and I hope our military can sort out what is the best tool for the job. God bless.

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Anthony, am i correct in thinking your 137gr SP is the only 308 bullet you produce that has a stability factor above 1.1 in a 1:12 twist ? Further, that your 158gr is therefore unstable in a 1:12 and assuming you recommend a MV of 3300fps ? I'm just trying to understand how I might take advantage of your bullets in my rifle. Thx

 

[TimK]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing occurred to me today whilst i was at work, something quite disturbing in fact...

It occurred to me that there IS a market for this weapon, a market in serious need... read on....

Whilst NATO forces have much better weapons for hard targets, i say NATO country forces dont have a need for this AMR because most of the hard targets are neutralized in a short time before the ground forces even make land fall via massive air and naval superiority etc. After that you have CAS, M1 Abrams, the list goes on... There is no way of defeating outright, a military opponent as vastly technologically superior as the US military. So the only way to fight is by guerilla tactics, and if i may use familiar and recent examples like vietnam, iraq, twice, and now afghanistan... where next, iran, north korea? whats the bet the same story will unfold up there??? They drag you into a ground war force you to fight with AK`s and M4`s, then blend into the population when theyre not holding a gun and wave as you drive past... They know its their only chance, to wear you down financially and politically.

Now imagine this... imagine if the iraqis or taliban bought thousands of these AMR rifles... plenty of hard targets for them to aim at from the rooftops and mountain tops? Little training required, low cost, low maintenance, easy to hide, perfect... Imagine US armour rolling into baghdad knowing there were thousands of these rifles hidden in the city pointed at you, no longer safe in your APC`s... imagine rolling thru those valley in afghanistan with the taliban no longer taking "pot shots" with RPG`s, but carefully aimed shots that have a much better chance of hitting the infidels...would change everything wouldnt it?

Thats the only market that needs this... i hope your ethics are up to scratch!

</div></div>

You are a jackass. Clicking "ignore user" now...

 

[Gerard Schultz]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

TJ
Your question is directed at Anthony but he may be unaware of this development.

There is a gap between the 308137SP and the 308158SP and it is being bridged at the moment.

Ideally, the 137 is a 12 to 13 twist bullet and the 158 is a 10 to 11 bullet. We need an 11 to 12 in the lineup and it is another week or so away from release.

Drop Anthony an email reminder and we will let you know when it is done and the specs are available.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no application for a 5000 meter sniper rifle and hard target interdiction with a purpose built rifle is obsolete on today's battlefield, nor is practical. </div></div>

Exactly,...its an excercise in futility </div></div>

If I recall correctly,in the not too distant past,Infantry and Ground Troops in general were also thought to be obsolete on today's battlefield..................

 

[Extremist458]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Gerard, thank you.

TJ, yes, got wind of that now, but no, you do not need to shoot them at the listed starting speed; that is done only because of the cartridges they are shot from, since we were able to gather data at said speed. The 137 is good for most any speed it will see in any rifle.

 

[Tactical]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

When your done with poop slinging contest can someone finally answer questions of total weight of system with scope and ammo?

While you are at it
Overall length of system
Sling attachement points?

Heck I may have just the set up to carry this beast without ending up with back surgery

 

[Timo Turl]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Thanks Anthony/Gerard, glad you are addressing the 1:12 crowd. Plse do put a post up when you are ready, i would love to try them.

Also, lot of people round here now fixated with the 208-210gr round and shooting it from a 1:12 with some success. Do you have plans to produce anything around that ? Would be v.interested to see what sort of BC/price you come up with given the lack of availability/increasing price from others in this range at the moment.

Thx

 

[ryanjay11]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Apparently the haterade tastes much better than the koolaide this time. Good luck with your endeavor. I can't figure out why anyone would bash what you do with your own money. They sound like a bunch of commies.

 

[jrob300]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Gonna repost this at the top of Pg. 6 for Mike so the appropriate people can respond.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your done with poop slinging contest can someone finally answer questions of total weight of system with scope and ammo?

While you are at it
Overall length of system
Sling attachement points?

Heck I may have just the set up to carry this beast without ending up with back surgery </div></div>

John

 

[groper]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Gerard, i live in a NATO forces country, australia, and i am a patriot and i really hate seeing our country service men and woment get killed overseas.

I Feel threatened by this system, because clearly it has a far bigger impact if it gets into the wrong hands (like terrorists) than almost anything else i can think of in terms of the RISK to our forces overseas rather than benefit to our NATO forces, that is all.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for GSCustom bullets, you are one of the finest bullet makers in the world, please dont take my comments as otherwise.

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Ok, so I just scanned all six pages of this thread. I don't care about the ballistics, powder consumption, bullet design, any of it. I just want to see a picture and there are no f-ing pictures! Where are the f-ing pictures?

 

[bohem]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, so I just scanned all six pages of this thread. I don't care about the ballistics, powder consumption, bullet design, any of it. I just want to see a picture and there are no f-ing pictures! Where are the f-ing pictures? </div></div>

So far all we've seen is the bullet.

Sao-

I did a little back calculation based upon the MV's, bullet weight and some guesswork based on internal efficiency of the poweder burn.

I'm getting that you're going to need around 760gr of powder for the MV's that you're reaching. Based on the geometry of the 14.5x144 case and doing some radical improvements to it I'm still getting that you'll be in the vicinity of 100-105% case capacity just to stuff enough powder in the case...

Can you provide any more details beyond needing in excess of 300gr of powder?

 

[sharac]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gerard, i live in a NATO forces country, australia, and i am a patriot and i really hate seeing our country service men and woment get killed overseas.

I Feel threatened by this system, because clearly it has a far bigger impact if it gets into the wrong hands (like terrorists) than almost anything else i can think of in terms of the RISK to our forces overseas rather than benefit to our NATO forces, that is all.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for GSCustom bullets, you are one of the finest bullet makers in the world, please dont take my comments as otherwise. </div></div>

But can't you see that by saying that you are the same as every gun ban, life ban, whatever ban fascist. Stopping development or ANY work/knowledge/items/ideas cause they MIGHT be exploited by BAD people with BAD intentions is self defeating at best. Let's just ban all guns and blow up all gunpowder/explosive factories cause some crackpot will construct a mine out of it and blow up someone we like/support do you see what is end product of such thinking?

Sorry for offtopic and hijack it just stings me as it seems there are many people on this planet that don't have a clue what liberty and responsibility is. A fly lands on a right button and they go all nazi on the world...


On topic: What will barrel life be like, have you made any preliminary research on it?

 

[KYS]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more thing occurred to me today whilst i was at work, something quite disturbing in fact...

It occurred to me that there IS a market for this weapon, a market in serious need... read on....

Whilst NATO forces have much better weapons for hard targets, i say NATO country forces dont have a need for this AMR because most of the hard targets are neutralized in a short time before the ground forces even make land fall via massive air and naval superiority etc. After that you have CAS, M1 Abrams, the list goes on... There is no way of defeating outright, a military opponent as vastly technologically superior as the US military. So the only way to fight is by guerilla tactics, and if i may use familiar and recent examples like vietnam, iraq, twice, and now afghanistan... where next, iran, north korea? whats the bet the same story will unfold up there??? They drag you into a ground war force you to fight with AK`s and M4`s, then blend into the population when theyre not holding a gun and wave as you drive past... They know its their only chance, to wear you down financially and politically.

Now imagine this... imagine if the iraqis or taliban bought thousands of these AMR rifles... plenty of hard targets for them to aim at from the rooftops and mountain tops? Little training required, low cost, low maintenance, easy to hide, perfect... Imagine US armour rolling into baghdad knowing there were thousands of these rifles hidden in the city pointed at you, no longer safe in your APC`s... imagine rolling thru those valley in afghanistan with the taliban no longer taking "pot shots" with RPG`s, but carefully aimed shots that have a much better chance of hitting the infidels...would change everything wouldnt it?

Thats the only market that needs this... i hope your ethics are up to scratch!

</div></div>

Judging by your post..... maybe they can come to the land down under and put a round thru your keyboard you clown. I hope you were trying to be funny in that post, and that you just suck at humor.... why do you feel the need to attack US Military all the sudden?

 

[S12A]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gerard, i live in a NATO forces country, australia, and i am a patriot and i really hate seeing our country service men and woment get killed overseas. </div></div>

No you dont Groper. Australia is not a NATO country.

 

[goober]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

That is quite correct as is New Zealand we are considered contact countries , sorry to piss on your parade also My cousin Goober but we arnt true members as such

Contact countries

In addition to its formal partnerships, NATO cooperates with a range of countries which are not part of these structures. Often referred to as “other partners across the globe” or “Contact Countries”, they share similar strategic concerns and key Alliance values.

1st Chamber Senate Government Head of State Prime Minister Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ministry of Defence Armed Forces Delegation

Australia Government Government Head of State Prime Minister Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ministry of Defence
Japan 1st Chamber Senate Prime Minister Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Republic of Korea Head of State Prime Minister Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ministry of Defence
New Zealand Government Government Head of State Prime Minister Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ministry of Defence

 

[wildcats]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

The shit is getting so high,i had to put my swamp boots on.

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Ok, so I just scanned all six pages of this thread. I don't care about the ballistics, powder consumption, bullet design, any of it. I just want to see a picture and there are no f-ing pictures! Where are the f-ing pictures? </div></div>

So far all we've seen is the bullet.

Sao-

I did a little back calculation based upon the MV's, bullet weight and some guesswork
based on internal efficiency of the poweder burn
I'm getting that you're going to need around 760gr of powder for the MV's that you're reaching. Based on the geometry of the 14.5x144 case and doing some radical improvements to it I'm still getting that you'll be in the vicinity of 100-105% case
capacity just to stuff enough powder in the case...
Can you provide any more details beyond needing in excess of 300gr of powder? [/quote

I'm curious as to what powder you are using for that calculation!?

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When your done with poop slinging contest can someone finally answer questions of total weight of system with scope and ammo?

While you are at it
Overall length of system
Sling attachement points?

Heck I may have just the set up to carry this beast without ending up with back surgery</div></div>

PM sent...

 

[Extremist458]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Tactical, feces aside, the system can be cut down on weight as needed. The weight we chose was to keep the recoil down to 60 lb/ft, so 45-50lbs, with 50 including scope, which is USO SN-9 w/80mm objective and total 220MOA adjustment (that happens to cost as much as the entire rifle). That is the repeater version with 49" barrel. It breaks down into barreled action and stock (scope detaches if needed, and suppressor), with the barreled action being 63", but we are going to start cutting the barrel back in 2" increments and measuring velocity loss. A single shot version has been designed but not build, and it will be about 10 lbs lighter and 10" shorter, but that gets into the hard hitting category. We'll have to find the limit. As for sling attachment points, they can be put anywhere, we have none as it is right now.

 

[shoots100]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Another rifle system that I can't own in F'ing NYS.I do travel to Quantico a couple times a year,so maybe I can see the beast in person ??? Practicle or not,It's your money and I'm glad you were able to make your project come to life.
STEVE

 

[AK10mm]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gerard, i live in a NATO forces country, australia, and i am a patriot and i really hate seeing our country service men and woment get killed overseas.

I Feel threatened by this system, because clearly it has a far bigger impact if it gets into the wrong hands (like terrorists) than almost anything else i can think of in terms of the RISK to our forces overseas rather than benefit to our NATO forces, that is all.

I have nothing but the utmost respect for GSCustom bullets, you are one of the finest bullet makers in the world, please dont take my comments as otherwise. </div></div>

Same Pragmatic excuses that the Anti's use to ban our weapons of any sort all over the world.

 

[bohem]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: saojao</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm curious as to what powder you are using for that calculation!? </div></div>

It's not powder specific, I'm using the burn rate class of things like (at the fast end) 50BMG and US869 and some of the slower things like 20mm cannister.

Assuming that the case internal efficiency is appx. the same as the 50 BMG for heavy bullets, I said that 32.5% internal efficiency was reasonable.

You're expecting 42,000ftlb KE at the muzzle, which means that the powder has to contain at least

KE@muzzle / Eta_internal = 42e3/0.325 = 129,230 Ft-lbs of potential energy in the powder.

The average PE of big bore powders is appx 170-175 ftlb/grain

129,230/175 ~ 738.5gr of powder

 

[saojao]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Very interesting....

 

[Extremist458]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

Bohem, you need to go to work with Mr. "Mic" McPherson. You and him would have some amazing conversations! Just be sure to record them and allow us to listen to them.

 

[jrob300]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bohem, you need to go to work with Mr. "Mic" McPherson. You and him would have some amazing conversations! Just be sure to record them and allow us to listen to them. </div></div>

Or not... I just read to the bottom of his posts for the conclusion. The rest just hurts my head.

John

 

[bohem]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bohem, you need to go to work with Mr. "Mic" McPherson. You and him would have some amazing conversations! Just be sure to record them and allow us to listen to them. </div></div>

Or not... I just read to the bottom of his posts for the conclusion. The rest just hurts my head.

John </div></div>

LOL...

Mic McPherson is a wealth of information that I would love to get access to. He's on 24hrcampfire a lot. I'm trying to find a copy of his book for under $300... if any of you guys happen to have "Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges" and would let me borrow it for a couple weeks please let me know. I'll return it with a bottle of your favorite libation.

 

[Emouse]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am beside myself...truly. For those that question my ethics, or my intent, I'll lay it all out there.

I am in the U.S. Navy, from the SpecWar community, and still cary a TS clearance...and I am in no hurry to lose that. I JUST got off working on the Navy's 20mm small arms projects and HTI/AMR/AMPR systems, where I still am connected. I still consult for the head of the Navy's Small Arms division. I currently teach CBR-NED (weapons of mass destruction) for the Navy, I'm still Military Law Enforcement and High Priority Security. I still assist in building and design rifles for my SpecWar frogs, and am currently working on a 4lb rifle system for the military that is designed to replace the M-16/M-4, 240, 249, M-60, M40 7.62 bolt rifle, CQB/CQC weapons and possibly more...and I have no interest in losing my job.

I also work for GS Custom Bullets without pay. I do not make money off of them, nor do I get free bullets for my work; I do it because I want to, and because I'm good at it. And the one thing I can attest to, without question, is there ethics.

Besides that, all those opposing forces mentioned above, already have access to every firearm the military uses, including the 14.5mm IWS2000 and M107. Many rifles from many builders have gone overseas, and I highly doubt Dave Viers will have ability or control over where his rifles end up. Which, by the way, GS Custom builds the bullets for that rifle, and have been an integral part of that project from it's inception. So no, this isn't the only rifle/projectile offered to our military from GS.

Now to the APFSDS, I give. You're all right, I only read manuals and observe Spec's supplied to me via my employment. Sorry guys, you are right, I'm not an expert on the subject. IF you say they are better, then so be it, and I guess myself and GS custom bullets will have to stand by and await our demise. But, until then, we will continue to build the Formula 1 bullets the world knows us for. You all have a nice day, and I hope our military can sort out what is the best tool for the job. God bless. </div></div>


So your in "Military Law Enforcement" yet you teach CNBR whilst you also "design" weapons systems for the SPECOPS community?

All this and you work for a FOREIGN manufacturer of small arms projectiles???

That raises a number of ITAR and security issues surely?

 

[jrob300]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am beside myself...truly. -snip-</div></div>


So your in "Military Law Enforcement" yet you teach CNBR whilst you also "design" weapons systems for the SPECOPS community?

All this and you work for a FOREIGN manufacturer of small arms projectiles???

That raises a number of ITAR and security issues surely? </div></div>

So at what point does this shit become a CoC violation? I find this kind of crap repulsive. If you want to impune someones reputation, call the National Enquirer. This is a firearms forum and whether or not we may or may not agree with the need for this weapon, the technical details are up for discussion. You and Groper have repeatedly taken shots below the belt on this and I for one would like to see it stop. There is obvious history here, but the two of you are making yourselves out to be fools. Stop. Now. For your own sake.

John

 

[Louis Corkern]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

+100 jrob

You 2 are making yourselves look like children. People should stick to what they know and stop guessing and assuming things.
Groper you didn't question my ethics and character the other day when you sent me email about your projectiles yet you question the cumulative ethics of this project which I am associated with...come on.

Emouse.. in all your wisdom list the itar regulations that have been violated.

 

[steve123]

Re: 5000 meters+ Supersonic

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Extremist458</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am beside myself...truly. -snip-</div></div>


So your in "Military Law Enforcement" yet you teach CNBR whilst you also "design" weapons systems for the SPECOPS community?

All this and you work for a FOREIGN manufacturer of small arms projectiles???

That raises a number of ITAR and security issues surely? </div></div>

So at what point does this shit become a CoC violation? I find this kind of crap repulsive. If you want to impune someones reputation, call the National Enquirer. This is a firearms forum and whether or not we may or may not agree with the need for this weapon, the technical details are up for discussion. You and Groper have repeatedly taken shots below the belt on this and I for one would like to see it stop. There is obvious history here, but the two of you are making yourselves out to be fools. Stop. Now. For your own sake.

John </div></div>

I agree 100%.That's putting it lightly for sure John.