If I was looking for a subsonic suppressed SBR I would choose the 300 AAC for sure. If looking for a target rifle and choosing between these 2 I would choose a 264LBC over the Grendel. Hunting or combat I would choose the 6.8. 3 gun, a 5.56.
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"widget.forum_overview_forum_statistics" => "" "widget.forum_overview_members_online" => "" "widget.forum_overview_new_posts" => "" "widget.forum_overview_new_profile_posts" => "" "widget.forum_overview_share_page" => "" "widget.latest_followed_profile_posts" => "Latest profile posts by followers" "widget.latest_posts" => "Latest posts" "widget.latest_profile_posts" => "Latest profile posts" "widget.latest_watched" => "Latest watched" "widget.leaderboards" => "Leaderboard: Posts" "widget.member_wrapper_find_member" => "" "widget.member_wrapper_newest_members" => "" "widget.nf_calendar_list_featured_events" => "" "widget.online_list_online_statistics" => "" "widget.sh_forumStats" => "Forum Statistics" "widget.sh_homeTrending" => "Trending Threads" "widget.sh_mediaSlider" => "Latest Media" "widget.sh_subscribe" => "Subscribe" "widget.thdonate_earnings" => "" "widget.thdonate_goals" => "" "widget.thdonate_topDonations" => "" "widget.thdonate_topDonors" => "" "widget.thuix_footer_aboutUsWidget" => "About us" "widget.uix_footer_forumStatistics" => "" "widget.uix_footer_newPosts" => "" "widget.uix_footer_onlineStatistics" => "" "widget.uix_footer_sharePage" => "" "widget.uix_sidebar_postNewThread" => "Can't find a topic?" "widget.unread_posts" => "Unread posts" "widget.whats_new_new_posts" => "" "widget.whats_new_new_profile_posts" => "" "widget.xfes_thread_view_below_quick_reply_similar_threads" => "" "widget.xfrm_forum_overview_new_resources" => "" "widget.xfrm_list_featured_resources" => "" "widget.xfrm_list_top_resources" => "" "widget.xfrm_overview_latest_reviews" => "" "widget.xfrm_overview_top_authors" => "" "widget.xfrm_whats_new_overview_new_resources" => "" "trophy_title.1" => "First Real Post" "trophy_title.10" => "Old School Sniper's Hide" "trophy_title.11" => "Posts (Silent)" "trophy_title.12" => "Logging In (Silent)" "trophy_title.13" => "Post Media Items (Silent)" "trophy_title.136" => "Test Achievement 4" "trophy_title.14" => "Spotted" "trophy_title.15" => "Rifle Cleaner" "trophy_title.16" => "Completed Profile" "trophy_title.17" => "Gunsmith" "trophy_title.19" => "Community Contributor" "trophy_title.2" => "Just getting into Precision Rifle." "trophy_title.20" => "Marksman!" "trophy_title.22" => "Made America Great Again" "trophy_title.23" => "Professor" "trophy_title.25" => "Leaderboard Legend" "trophy_title.26" => "Commercial Sales Member" "trophy_title.27" => "Supporter" "trophy_title.3" => "Look Everyone I can Sell Now !" "trophy_title.4" => "Hide Addict !" "trophy_title.5" => "Members are Noticing" "trophy_title.6" => "Hide Rockstar, Lady Gaga Approved!" "trophy_title.7" => "They like me, they really like me!" "trophy_title.8" => "I want to have Lowlight's Love Child" "trophy_title.9" => "I LOVE IT LONG TIME" "a_moment_ago" => "A moment ago" "actions" => "Actions" "approve" => "Approve" "continue_reading" => "Continue reading..." "conversations" => "Conversations" "date_x_at_time_y" => "{date} at {time}" "day_friday" => "Friday" "day_friday_short" => "Fri" "day_monday" => "Monday" "day_monday_short" => "Mon" "day_saturday" => "Saturday" "day_saturday_short" => "Sat" "day_sunday" => "Sunday" "day_sunday_short" => "Sun" "day_thursday" => "Thursday" "day_thursday_short" => "Thu" "day_tuesday" => "Tuesday" "day_tuesday_short" => "Tue" "day_wednesday" => "Wednesday" "day_wednesday_short" => "Wed" "day_x_at_time_y" => "{day} at {time}" "delete" => "Delete" "edit_avatar" => "Edit avatar" "follow" => "Follow" "forums" => "Forums" "from_x_location" => "From {location}" "guest" => "Guest" "help" => "Help" "in_a_minute" => "In a minute" "in_a_moment" => "In a moment" "in_x_minutes" => "In {minutes} minutes" "later_today_at_x" => "Later today at {time}" "master_language" => "Master language" "master_style" => "Master style" "members" => "Members" "month_1" => "January" "month_10" => "October" "month_10_short" => "Oct" "month_11" => "November" "month_11_short" => "Nov" "month_12" => "December" "month_12_short" => "Dec" "month_1_short" => "Jan" "month_2" => "February" "month_2_short" => "Feb" "month_3" => "March" "month_3_short" => "Mar" "month_4" => "April" "month_4_short" => "Apr" "month_5" => "May" "month_5_short" => "May" "month_6" => "June" "month_6_short" => "Jun" "month_7" => "July" "month_7_short" => "Jul" "month_8" => "August" "month_8_short" => "Aug" "month_9" => "September" "month_9_short" => "Sep" "new_posts" => "New posts" "new_profile_posts" => "New profile posts" "no_items_to_display" => "No items to display" "none" => "None" "one_minute_ago" => "1 minute ago" "realms_realm_quiz_user" => "Realm Quiz User" "s9e_MediaSites_Footer_Credit" => "Media embeds via s9e/MediaSites" "show_hidden_content_by_x" => "Show hidden content by {names}" "show_ignored_content" => "Show ignored content" "showing_all_items" => "Showing all items" "showing_x_of_y_items" => "Showing {count} of {total} items" "spoiler" => "Spoiler" "staff_member" => "Staff member" "th_progress_bar_color_will_change_donate" => "Once this milestone has been reached the progress bar will change to this color. If left blank it will display the default color from your color palette." "there_are_x_items_in_total" => "There are {total} items in total" "time_am_lower" => "am" "time_am_upper" => "AM" "time_pm_lower" => "pm" "time_pm_upper" => "PM" "title_page_x" => " | Page {page}" "today_at_x" => "Today at {time}" "tomorrow_at_x" => "Tomorrow at {time}" "unfollow" => "Unfollow" "ungrouped" => "Ungrouped" "upload_file" => "Upload file" "viewing_an_error" => "Viewing an error" "x_b" => "{number}B" "x_bytes" => "{size} bytes" "x_gb" => "{size} GB" "x_k" => "{number}K" "x_kb" => "{size} KB" "x_m" => "{number}M" "x_mb" => "{size} MB" "x_minutes_ago" => "{minutes} minutes ago" "x_tb" => "{size} TB" "xfmg_browse_albums" => "Browse albums" "xfmg_x_seconds" => "{count} second(s)" "xfrm_resource_icon" => "Resource icon" "yesterday_at_x" => "Yesterday at {time}" "your_account" => "Your account" "th_reactplus_show_hidden_low_quality_content" => "Show hidden low quality content" "thcovers_no_edit_permissions" => "You are not allowed to edit this cover." ] #phrasesToLoad: array:1 [ "thcovers_no_position_permissions" => true ] #groupsCached: array:7 [ "trophy_title" => true "widget" => true "widget_def" => true "thread_type" => true "thread_prefix" => true "button" => true "nav" => true ] #date: DateTime @1723140058 {#312 date: 2024-08-08 14:00:58.0 America/New_York (-04:00) } #dayStartTimestamps: array:6 [ "tomorrow" => "1735016400" "now" => 1734970508 "today" => "1734930000" "todayDow" => "1" "yesterday" => "1734843600" "week" => "1734411600" ] #dowTranslation: array:7 [ 0 => "sunday" 1 => "monday" 2 => "tuesday" 3 => "wednesday" 4 => "thursday" 5 => "friday" 6 => "saturday" ] #rdc: array:68 [ 1407532522 => array:1 [ …1] 1408402974 => array:1 [ …1] 1408425414 => array:1 [ …1] 1408467536 => array:1 [ …1] 1408468385 => array:1 [ …1] 1408477593 => array:1 [ …1] 1408497673 => array:1 [ …1] 1408519263 => array:1 [ …1] 1408557153 => array:1 [ …1] 1408537081 => array:1 [ …1] 1408539229 => array:1 [ …1] 1408543956 => array:1 [ …1] 1408544868 => array:1 [ …1] 1408546123 => array:1 [ …1] 1408555564 => array:1 [ …1] 1408555704 => array:1 [ …1] 1408558577 => array:1 [ …1] 1408559219 => array:1 [ …1] 1408559839 => array:1 [ …1] 1408560320 => array:1 [ …1] 1408560876 => array:1 [ …1] 1408561009 => array:1 [ …1] 1408566306 => array:1 [ …1] 1408567285 => array:1 [ …1] 1408569530 => array:1 [ …1] 1408570061 => array:1 [ …1] 1408575515 => array:1 [ …1] 1408576727 => array:1 [ …1] 1408578922 => array:1 [ …1] 1408579094 => array:1 [ …1] 1408582831 => array:1 [ …1] 1408590331 => array:1 [ …1] 1408590711 => array:1 [ …1] 1408590549 => array:1 [ …1] 1408590981 => array:1 [ …1] 1408591727 => array:1 [ …1] 1408591971 => array:1 [ …1] 1408594700 => array:1 [ …1] 1408595418 => array:1 [ …1] 1408598701 => array:1 [ …1] 1408618090 => array:1 [ …1] 1408635512 => array:1 [ …1] 1408639291 => array:1 [ …1] 1408640105 => array:1 [ …1] 1408640065 => array:1 [ …1] 1408641800 => array:1 [ …1] 1408646938 => array:1 [ …1] 1408647065 => array:1 [ …1] 1408647575 => array:1 [ …1] 1408655917 => array:1 [ …1] 1408676145 => array:1 [ …1] 1408678922 => array:1 [ …1] 1408679433 => array:1 [ …1] 1408715493 => array:1 [ …1] 1408725659 => array:1 [ …1] 1408751407 => array:1 [ …1] 1408980913 => array:1 [ …1] 1408993112 => array:1 [ …1] 1704665752 => array:1 [ …1] 1730082403 => array:1 [ …1] 1725418857 => array:1 [ …1] 1731707475 => array:1 [ …1] 1712769782 => array:1 [ …1] 1733764074 => array:1 [ …1] 1724372748 => array:1 [ …1] 1725022070 => array:1 [ …1] 1721784041 => array:1 [ …1] 1723140058 => array:1 [ …1] ] } "style" => Style {#321 #id: "27" #lastModified: 1732740916 #properties: array:696 [ "adavAchievementCriteria" => array:3 [ …3] "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBar" => array:5 [ …5] "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBarInner" => array:3 [ …3] "adavAchievementCriterionProgressBarStatus" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementExperience" => array:3 [ …3] "adavAchievementTitle" => array:2 [ …2] "adst_shepherdElement" => array:3 [ …3] "animationSpeed" => "0.2s" "audapp_primaryColor" => "#677e9a" "audapp_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a" "avatarBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "avatarBorderRadius" => "8px" "badge" => array:4 [ …4] "bbCodeBlock" => array:6 [ …6] "bbCodeBlockTitle" => array:3 [ …3] "bbCodeInlineCode" => array:9 [ …9] "blockBorder" => array:5 [ …5] "blockBorderRadius" => "8px" "blockFilterBar" => array:3 [ …3] "blockFooter" => array:5 [ …5] "blockFooterBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "blockFooterTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "blockHeader" => array:6 [ …6] "blockLink" => array:4 [ …4] "blockLinkSelected" => array:5 [ …5] "blockMinorHeader" => array:6 [ …6] "blockMinorTabHeader" => array:5 [ …5] "blockMinorTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2] "blockPaddingH" => "16px" "blockPaddingV" => "16px" "blockTabHeader" => array:6 [ …6] "blockTabHeaderBg" => "transparent" "blockTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2] "blockTabHeaderTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "blockTextHeader" => array:3 [ …3] "borderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "borderColorAccentContent" => "#677e9a" "borderColorAttention" => "#677e9a" "borderColorFaint" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "borderColorFeature" => "#677e9a" "borderColorHeavy" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "borderColorHighlight" => "#677e9a" "borderColorLight" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "borderRadiusLarge" => "12px" "borderRadiusMedium" => "8px" "borderRadiusSmall" => "8px" "borderSize" => "0px" "borderSizeFeature" => "2px" "buttonBase" => array:8 [ …8] "buttonBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 14%)" "buttonCta" => array:3 [ …3] "buttonCtaBg" => "#677e9a" "buttonDefault" => array:3 [ …3] "buttonDisabled" => array:4 [ …4] "buttonPrimary" => array:3 [ …3] "buttonPrimaryBg" => "#677e9a" "buttonTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "chip" => array:5 [ …5] "chipHover" => array:1 [ …1] "chromeBg" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)" "chromeTextColor" => "rgb(36,36,36)" "contentAccentBase" => array:2 [ …2] "contentAccentBg" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)" "contentAccentLink" => array:1 [ …1] "contentAltBase" => array:2 [ …2] "contentAltBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)" "contentBase" => array:2 [ …2] "contentBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "contentHighlightBase" => array:2 [ …2] "contentHighlightBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "dataListFooter" => array:5 [ …5] "dataListHeader" => array:7 [ …7] "dataListPaddingH" => "16px" "dataListPaddingV" => "16px" "dataListSection" => array:5 [ …5] "editorBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "editorButtonActiveColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "editorButtonColor" => "fade(mix(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), rgb(255, 255, 255)), 85%)" "editorButtonDisabledColor" => "mix(rgb(27,27,27), rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6), 60%)" "editorButtonHoverBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 15%)" "editorButtonHoverColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "editorButtonSelectedBg" => "fade(rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8), 15%)" "editorButtonSize" => "18px" "editorColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "editorFocusBg" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%)" "editorFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "editorImageHandles" => "#677e9a" "editorSelectionBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)" "editorSelectionColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "editorToolsFocusBg" => "linear-gradient(180deg, rgb(45,45,45), xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%))" "editorToolsOverflowBg" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 3%)" "elementSpacer" => "16px" "emailBg" => "rgb(18,18,18)" "emailBorderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "emailContentAltBg" => "rgb(36,36,36)" "emailContentBg" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "emailFont" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji" "emailHeaderColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "emailLinkColor" => "#677e9a" "emailTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "emailTextColorMuted" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "fixedMessage" => array:7 [ …7] "flashMessage" => array:5 [ …5] "fontFamilyBody" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji" "fontFamilyUi" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji" "fontSizeLarge" => "1.6rem" "fontSizeLarger" => "2.0rem" "fontSizeLargest" => "2.4rem" "fontSizeNormal" => "1.6rem" "fontSizeSmall" => "1.4rem" "fontSizeSmaller" => "1.4rem" "fontSizeSmallest" => "1.1rem" "formExplain" => array:2 [ …2] "formHint" => array:2 [ …2] "formLabel" => array:3 [ …3] "formRowPaddingHInner" => "16px" "formRowPaddingHOuter" => "16px" "formRowPaddingV" => "16px" "formSectionHeader" => array:6 [ …6] "formSubmitRow" => array:3 [ …3] "globalActionColor" => "#677e9a" "inlineModBar" => array:6 [ …6] "inlineModHighlightColor" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)" "input" => array:10 [ …10] "inputBgColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "inputDisabled" => array:2 [ …2] "inputFocus" => array:3 [ …3] "inputFocusBgColor" => "xf-intensify(rgb(45,45,45), 1%)" "inputTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "link" => array:2 [ …2] "linkColor" => "#677e9a" "linkHover" => array:2 [ …2] "linkHoverColor" => "xf-intensify(#677e9a, 17%)" "majorHeadingBg" => "transparent" "majorHeadingTextColor" => "rgb(255, 255, 255)" "memberHeader" => array:3 [ …3] "memberHeaderBlurbContainerBanner" => array:4 [ …4] "memberHeaderName" => array:2 [ …2] "memberTooltipBlurbContainerBanner" => array:5 [ …5] "memberTooltipHeader" => array:4 [ …4] "memberTooltipName" => array:1 [ …1] "menu" => array:6 [ …6] "menuBorderRadius" => "8px" "menuFeatureBorderColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "menuFooter" => array:6 [ …6] "menuHeader" => array:5 [ …5] "menuLinkRow" => array:2 [ …2] "menuLinkRowSelected" => array:3 [ …3] "menuTabHeader" => array:5 [ …5] "menuTabHeaderSelected" => array:2 [ …2] "messageNewIndicator" => array:8 [ …8] "messagePadding" => "16px" "messagePaddingSmall" => "16px" "messageSignature" => array:7 [ …7] "messageUserBlock" => array:3 [ …3] "messageUserElements" => array:9 [ …9] "metaThemeColor" => "#677e9a" "minorBlockContent" => array:3 [ …3] "minorHeadingTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "nodeIconReadColor" => "#fff" "nodeIconUnreadColor" => "#fff" "nodeListDescriptionDisplay" => "inline" "overlayHeader" => array:8 [ …8] "overlayMaskColor" => "rgba(0, 0, 0, .3)" "paddingLarge" => "16px" "paddingLargest" => "24px" "paddingMedium" => "16px" "paddingSmall" => "8px" "pageBackground" => array:1 [ …1] "pageBg" => "rgb(18,18,18)" "pageEdgeSpacer" => "30px" "paletteAccent1" => "#677e9a" "paletteAccent2" => "#677e9a" "paletteAccent3" => "#677e9a" "paletteColor1" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "paletteColor2" => "rgb(36,36,36)" "paletteColor3" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "paletteColor4" => "rgb(18,18,18)" "paletteColor5" => "mix(#677e9a, rgb(27,27,27), 10%)" "paletteNeutral1" => "rgb(255, 255, 255)" "paletteNeutral2" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "paletteNeutral3" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "profilePostCommentToggle" => 1 "progressBarColor" => "#677e9a" "publicFaviconUrl" => "styles/snipershide/snipershide/sh-favicon.svg" "publicFooter" => array:2 [ …2] "publicFooterLink" => array:1 [ …1] "publicHeader" => array:3 [ …3] "publicHeaderAdjustColor" => "" "publicIconUrl" => "data/assets/logo/192.png" "publicIconUrlLarge" => "data/assets/logo/512.png" "publicLogoHeight" => "60" "publicLogoUrl" => "styles/snipershide/snipershide/logo-top.svg" "publicLogoWidth" => "417" "publicMetadataLogoUrl" => "https://snipershide.com/shooting/styles/snipershide/snipershide/SHMetaplatev2.png" "publicNav" => array:3 [ …3] "publicNavCollapseWidth" => "1000px" "publicNavPaddingH" => "12px" "publicNavSelected" => array:2 [ …2] "publicNavTab" => array:5 [ …5] "publicNavTabHover" => array:2 [ …2] "publicNavTabMenuOpen" => array:1 [ …1] "publicStaffBar" => array:5 [ …5] "publicSubNav" => array:5 [ …5] "publicSubNavElHover" => array:1 [ …1] "publicSubNavElMenuOpen" => array:1 [ …1] "publicSubNavPaddingV" => "2px" "responsiveEdgeSpacerRemoval" => "1000px" "responsiveWide" => "1000px" "scrollJumpButtons" => "both" "sidebarSpacer" => "16px" "sidebarWidth" => "300px" "standaloneTab" => array:4 [ …4] "standaloneTabSelected" => array:2 [ …2] "starEmptyColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "starFullColor" => "#677e9a" "styleType" => "dark" "subNavBg" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "subNavTextColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "textColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "textColorAccentContent" => "#677e9a" "textColorAttention" => "#677e9a" "textColorDimmed" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "textColorEmphasized" => "#677e9a" "textColorFeature" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "textColorMuted" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "th_nodeBody" => array:1 [ …1] "th_reactplus_countStyling" => array:8 [ …8] "thdonate_progressBar" => array:1 [ …1] "thdonate_progressBarContainer" => array:3 [ …3] "thfeature_slider" => array:1 [ …1] "thuix_webapp_backgroundColor" => "#677e9a" "thxpress_dotsNavigation" => 1 "thxpress_postExcerptTitle" => array:4 [ …4] "tl_backgroundColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "tl_backgroundLightColor" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "tl_fontColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "tl_fontDarkColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "tl_fontExtraLightColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "tl_fontLightColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "tl_lineColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "tl_lineLightColor" => "rgba(255,255,255,.14)" "tl_overlayColor" => "rgb(45,45,45)" "tl_primaryColor" => "#677e9a" "tl_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a" "tooltip" => array:8 [ …8] "uix_abridgedSignatures" => 1 "uix_activeNavTitle" => 0 "uix_activeNavTitleStyle" => array:7 [ …7] "uix_additionalCss" => "ac_app.less,realms.less" "uix_alertsUnread" => 0 "uix_avatarShape" => "1" "uix_backstretch" => 0 "uix_backstretchDuration" => "4000" "uix_backstretchFade" => "500" "uix_backstretchImages" => ""styles/acui/images/bg/1.jpg", "styles/acui/images/bg/2.jpg", "styles/acui/images/bg/3.jpg"" "uix_backstretchSelector" => "body" "uix_betaMode" => 0 "uix_blockBody" => [] "uix_blockContainer" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_blockMessage" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_blockOuter" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_blockTabHeaderTab" => [] "uix_borderRadiusJs" => 0 "uix_borderRadiusSelectors" => ".p-footer-inner, .uix_extendedFooter, .p-nav, .p-sectionLinks, .p-staffBar, .p-header, #wpadminbar" "uix_bottomBreadcrumbLocation" => "belowMainContainer" "uix_brandmarkImage__breakpoint" => "0" "uix_breadcrumbItem" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_breadcrumbItem__active" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_breadcrumbStyle" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_breadcrumbWrapper" => [] "uix_breadcrumbWrapperBottom" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_buttonActive" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_buttonCtaActive" => [] "uix_buttonCtaHover" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_buttonHover" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_buttonLink" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_buttonPrimaryActive" => [] "uix_buttonPrimaryHover" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_buttonRipple" => 1 "uix_buttonSmall" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_canvas" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_canvasHeader" => [] "uix_canvasNavItem" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_canvasNavItemActive" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_canvasNavItemHover" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_canvasNavSubItem" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_categoryCollapse" => 1 "uix_categoryDescription" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_categoryDescriptionDisplay" => "tooltip" "uix_categoryIconStyle" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_categoryStrip" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_categoryStripIcons" => 0 "uix_categoryStripOutsideWrapper" => 0 "uix_clickableThreads" => 0 "uix_collapseExtraInfo" => 1 "uix_collapseStaffbarLinks" => 1 "uix_collapseibleSubForums" => 0 "uix_collapsibleSidebar" => 1 "uix_collapsibleStickyThreads" => 1 "uix_condenseVisitorTabs" => 0 "uix_contentWrapper" => "0" "uix_contentWrapperStyle" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_copyrightOrder" => "30" "uix_defaultNavIcon" => 1 "uix_defaultSidebarIcon" => 1 "uix_detachedNavigation" => 1 "uix_discussionList" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_discussionListAnimation" => 0 "uix_discussionListCollapseWidth" => "1000px" "uix_discussionListItem" => [] "uix_discussionListItemDeleted" => [] "uix_discussionListItemEven" => "" "uix_discussionListItemHover" => "" "uix_discussionListItemModerated" => [] "uix_discussionListItemSticky" => [] "uix_discussionListTitle" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_discussionListTitleUnread" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_dropdownHover" => 0 "uix_elevation1" => "0 10px 20px rgba(0,0,0,0.09), 0 6px 6px rgba(0,0,0,0.15)" "uix_elevation2" => "0 3px 10px 2px rgba(0,0,0,.1), 0 1px 18px 0px rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.12), 0 3px 5px 0 rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.2)" "uix_enableExtendedFooter" => 0 "uix_enableMainTabs" => 0 "uix_enableWelcomeHeaderImage" => 0 "uix_extendedFooterOrder" => "10" "uix_extendedFooterStyle" => array:6 [ …6] "uix_extendedFooter__whiteText" => 0 "uix_externalLinkIcon" => 1 "uix_fab" => "mobile" "uix_fabBarBackground" => "rgb(27,27,27)" "uix_fabScroll" => 0 "uix_fabVw" => "1000px" "uix_footerChooser" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_footerChooserHover" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_footerCopyrightRow" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_footerIcons" => 0 "uix_footerInsideContent" => 0 "uix_footerLinkHover" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_footerMenu" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_footerMenuOrder" => "20" "uix_footerWidget" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_footerWidgetBody" => [] "uix_footerWidgetFooter" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_footerWidgetHeader" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_footerWidgetPadding" => "16px" "uix_footerWidgetRow" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_footerWidgetWidth" => "280px" "uix_forceCoverCopyright" => 0 "uix_forceCoverExtendedFooter" => 0 "uix_forceCoverFooterMenu" => 0 "uix_glyphCategoryIcon" => "" "uix_glyphForumIcon" => "" "uix_glyphLinkIcon" => "" "uix_glyphPageIcon" => "" "uix_googleFonts" => "" "uix_headerWhiteSpace" => "0px" "uix_headerWrapper" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_headingFont" => "ui-sans-serif,system-ui,sans-serif,Apple Color Emoji,Segoe UI Emoji,Segoe UI Symbol,Noto Color Emoji" "uix_headingFontWeight" => "400" "uix_headingFontWeightHeavy" => "700" "uix_hideElementsDuringJSLoad" => 1 "uix_hideExtendedFooterMobile" => 0 "uix_hideNodeLastPost" => 0 "uix_hideNodeStats" => 0 "uix_hideSingleCrumb" => 1 "uix_hideStyleChoose" => 0 "uix_hideTopPagenavMobile" => 1 "uix_homeCrumbIcon" => 1 "uix_iconFont" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_iconFontFamily" => "material" "uix_iconSize" => "18px" "uix_iconSizeLarge" => "24px" "uix_imageForumIcon" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_imageForumUnreadIcon" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_imageIcon" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_imageLinkIcon" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_imagePageIcon" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_imagePath" => "styles/acui" "uix_jsPath" => "acui" "uix_lazyLoadSupport" => 0 "uix_loginStyle" => "link" "uix_loginTriggerPosition" => "navigation" "uix_logoIcon" => "mdi mdi-tune" "uix_logoIconStyle" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_logoSmall" => "" "uix_logoText" => "UI.X" "uix_logoTextBreakpoint" => "650px" "uix_logoText__style" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_logoWidth" => "222.4px" "uix_mainTabsBarStyling" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_mainTabsHeight" => "50px" "uix_mainTabsSticky" => 0 "uix_materialAvatars" => 1 "uix_message" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_messageActionBar" => [] "uix_messageAnimation" => 0 "uix_messageAttachments" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_messageBody" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_messageControl" => array:7 [ …7] "uix_messageControlHover" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_messageLikes" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_messageMain" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_messageMeta" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_messageNotice" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_metaCell" => [] "uix_mobileTabsNav" => 1 "uix_navAboveHeader" => 0 "uix_navLogoVertSpacing" => "11px" "uix_navTabIconStyle" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_navTabIcons" => 0 "uix_navigationBarHeight" => "72px" "uix_navigationType" => "default" "uix_newNodeMarker" => 1 "uix_newNodeMarkerStyle" => array:8 [ …8] "uix_nodeAnimations" => 0 "uix_nodeBlockBody" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_nodeBody" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_nodeBodyEven" => "" "uix_nodeBodyHover" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_nodeClickable" => 1 "uix_nodeContainer" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_nodeDescription" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_nodeIconImages" => 0 "uix_nodeIconStyle" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_nodeIconWidth" => "51px" "uix_nodePadding" => "16px" "uix_nodeStatsHover" => 0 "uix_nodeStatsIcons" => 1 "uix_nodeTitle" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_nodeTitle__unread" => [] "uix_noticeLocation" => "aboveMainContainer" "uix_onlineIndicator" => "default" "uix_originalPoster" => "icon" "uix_pageAnimation" => 0 "uix_pageStyle" => "covered" "uix_pageTitle" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_pageWidthToggle" => "fixed" "uix_pageWrapper" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_parallax" => 0 "uix_parallaxImage" => "styles/acui/images/welcome-banner.png" "uix_parallaxPosition" => "center" "uix_parallaxSelector" => ".uix_welcomeSection" "uix_postBitAvatarSize" => "small" "uix_postBitIcons" => 1 "uix_prefixAccent" => "#677e9a" "uix_prefixBlue" => "#2196F3" "uix_prefixGray" => "#616161" "uix_prefixGreen" => "#4CAF50" "uix_prefixLightGreen" => "#8BC34A" "uix_prefixOlive" => "#689F38" "uix_prefixOrange" => "#FF9800" "uix_prefixPrimary" => "#677e9a" "uix_prefixRed" => "#D32F2F" "uix_prefixRedSkyBlue" => "#03A9F4" "uix_prefixRoyalBlue" => "#0D47A1" "uix_prefixSilver" => "#CFD8DC" "uix_prefixYellow" => "#FFEB3B" "uix_primaryColor" => "#677e9a" "uix_primaryColorDarker" => "#677e9a" "uix_removeBottomBreadcrumb" => 0 "uix_removeHeaderWrapper" => 1 "uix_removeIndexPageTitle" => 0 "uix_removeMessageArrow" => 1 "uix_removePageAction" => 0 "uix_removeRegisterText" => 0 "uix_removeVisitorTabsText" => 1 "uix_removeWhatsNewButtons" => 1 "uix_responsiveLogoFontSize" => "" "uix_rightAlignNavigation" => 0 "uix_scrollableSidebar" => 0 "uix_searchBar" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_searchBarFocus" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_searchBarHeight" => "36px" "uix_searchBarPlaceholderColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "uix_searchBarPlaceholderFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)" "uix_searchBarWidth" => "250px" "uix_searchButton" => 0 "uix_searchIcon" => array:6 [ …6] "uix_searchIconBehavior" => "expandMobile" "uix_searchIconFocusColor" => "rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.6)" "uix_searchPosition" => "header" "uix_search_maxResponsiveWidth" => "10000px" "uix_secondaryColor" => "#677e9a" "uix_sectionBg" => "#677e9a" "uix_sectionLinksStickyStyle" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_separateThreads" => 1 "uix_shareWidgetModal" => 1 "uix_sideNavCollapsed" => 0 "uix_sideNavigationAnimation" => 0 "uix_sidebarBlockRow" => [] "uix_sidebarBreakpoint" => "1000px" "uix_sidebarIcons" => 0 "uix_sidebarLocation" => "right" "uix_sidebarMobileCanvas" => 1 "uix_sidebarNavWidth" => "210px" "uix_sidebarNavigationStyle" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_sidebarTriggerPhrase" => 0 "uix_sidebarTriggerPosition" => "sectionLinks" "uix_sidebarWidgetAnimations" => 0 "uix_sidebarWidgetFooter" => [] "uix_sidebarWidgetHeading" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_sidebarWidgetWrapper" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_signatureHoverEnabled" => 0 "uix_signatureMaxHeight" => "100" "uix_similarScrollNotice" => 1 "uix_socialMediaIcon" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_socialMediaPosition" => "copyright" "uix_staffBarBreakpoint" => "1000px" "uix_staffBarTab" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_staffBarTabHover" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_stickyCategoryStrips" => 0 "uix_stickyNavHeight" => "72px" "uix_stickyNavigationStyle" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_stickySectionLinkHeight" => "40px" "uix_stickySidebar" => "disabled" "uix_stickySidebarCalcDelay" => "100" "uix_stickySidenav" => 1 "uix_stickyStaffBar" => 1 "uix_stickyStaffBarHeight" => "40px" "uix_stickyStaffbarStyle" => [] "uix_structPaddingH" => "16px" "uix_structPaddingV" => "16px" "uix_subForumTitle" => array:1 [ …1] "uix_swipeSupport" => 0 "uix_tabBarLocation" => "header" "uix_tablinksInSideNav" => 1 "uix_tag" => [] "uix_tagHover" => [] "uix_textSelection" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_threadField" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_threadListSeparator" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_titlebar" => array:5 [ …5] "uix_titlebarLocation" => "mainContainerTop" "uix_topBreadcrumbLocation" => "aboveMainContainer" "uix_transition" => "cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1)" "uix_userTabsPosition" => "navigation" "uix_version" => "2.2.15.0.2" "uix_viewportCenterLogo" => "0px" "uix_viewportCollapseStaffLinks" => "1000px" "uix_viewportCollapseStats" => "1000px" "uix_viewportCondenseVisitorTabs" => "10000px" "uix_viewportRemoveRegisterText" => "650px" "uix_viewportRemoveVisitorTabsText" => "100000px" "uix_viewportShowLogoBlock" => "100%" "uix_viewportWidthRemoveSubNav" => "1px" "uix_visitorPanelIcons" => 0 "uix_visitorTabsMobile" => "initial" "uix_voteActionButton" => "mobile" "uix_welcomeSectionForumListOnly" => 1 "uix_welcomeSectionIcon__style" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_welcomeSectionInner" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_welcomeSectionLocation" => "sidebar" "uix_welcomeSectionOverlay" => "" "uix_welcomeSectionText__style" => array:4 [ …4] "uix_welcomeSectionTitle__style" => array:2 [ …2] "uix_welcomeSectionVisible" => "guests" "uix_welcomeSection__buttonText" => "Register" "uix_welcomeSection__icon" => "" "uix_welcomeSection__style" => array:3 [ …3] "uix_welcomeSection__text" => "Get access to live stream, lessons, the post exchange, and chat with other snipers." "uix_welcomeSection__title" => "Join the Hide community" "uix_welcomeSection__url" => "register" "uix_widgetPadding" => "16px" "xpress_articleListLayout" => "list" "xpress_authorBlock" => array:10 [ …10] "xpress_dropcap" => 0 "xpress_featuredArticleStyle" => "carousel" "xpress_featuredExcerptLength" => "150" "xpress_featuredItemsCount" => "3" "xpress_removeFeaturedExcerpt" => 1 "adavAchievement" => [] "adavAchievementCriterionTitle" => [] "adavAchievementCriterionTitleCompleted" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementTitleCommon" => [] "adavAchievementTitleEpic" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementTitleLegendary" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementTitleRare" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementTitleUncommon" => array:1 [ …1] "adavAchievementTitleUnique" => array:1 [ …1] "adav_memberLevelBadeLocation" => "stats" "audfeeds_chromeless_tabs" => 0 "audfeeds_tabbar_location" => "aboveMainContent" "audfeeds_tabsWrapper" => [] "avatarDefaultImage" => "" "avatarDefaultTextContent" => "?" "avatarDefaultType" => "text" "avatarDynamicFont" => "'Arial', sans-serif" "avatarDynamicLineHeight" => "1.04" "avatarDynamicTextPercent" => "60" "badgeHighlighted" => array:2 [ …2] "bbCodeBlockExpandHeight" => "150px" "bbCodeImgFloatMargin" => "0.25em" "bbCodeImgFloatMarginAfter" => "1.35em" "bbCodeImgLarge" => "512px" "bbCodeImgMedium" => "128px" "bbCodeImgSmall" => "64px" "borderSizeMinorFeature" => "2px" "editorToolsBg" => "transparent" "emailPublicLogoUrl" => "" "errorBg" => "rgb(253, 233, 233)" "errorColor" => "rgb(200, 68, 72)" "errorFeatureColor" => "rgb(200, 68, 72)" "findThreadsNavStyle" => "tabs" "fontAwesomeWeight" => "400" "fontFamilyCode" => "Monaco, Menlo, Consolas, 'Roboto Mono', 'Andale Mono', 'Ubuntu Mono', monospace" "fontWeightHeavy" => "700" "fontWeightLight" => "300" "fontWeightNormal" => "400" "formLabelWidth" => "33%" "formResponsive" => "540px" "formSubmitSticky" => 1 "lineHeightDefault" => "1.4" "memberHeaderNameBanner" => array:1 [ …1] "memberTooltipNameBanner" => array:1 [ …1] "messageSingleColumnWidth" => "650px" "messageUserBlockWidth" => "120px" "nfCalendarDateIcons" => 0 "nodeListSubDisplay" => "menu" "noticeScrollInterval" => "6" "overlayMaskBlur" => "0px" "overlayTopMargin" => "4vh" "pageNavStyle" => "mixed" "pageWidthMax" => "1200px" "publicIconsMaskable" => 0 "publicLogoUrl2x" => "" "publicNavPaddingV" => "8px" "publicNavSticky" => "primary" "publicPushBadgeUrl" => "styles/default/xenforo/bell.png" "publicPwaInstallVideoUrl" => "styles/default/xenforo/add_to_home.mp4" "publicSubNavPaddingH" => "8px" "reactionSummaryOnLists" => "" "responsiveMedium" => "650px" "responsiveNarrow" => "480px" "successBg" => "rgb(218, 243, 216)" "successColor" => "rgb(61, 121, 63)" "successFeatureColor" => "rgb(99, 178, 101)" "th_backgroundSelector_nodes" => ".node--id{node_id} > .node-body" "th_enableGrid_nodes" => 0 "th_enableGrid_nodes_advanced" => 0 "th_enableNodeFooter_nodes" => 1 "th_enableStyling_nodes" => 0 "th_imageOverlay" => "rgba(0,0,0,.4)" "th_nodeGutter" => "10px" "th_reactplus_condensedSummary" => 0 "th_reactplus_countMin" => "1" "th_reactplus_showCounter" => 0 "th_textSelector_nodes" => ".node--id{node_id} > .node-body, .node--id{node_id} > .node-body a" "th_uix_staffMessageBlock" => [] "th_uix_staffMessageNewIndicator" => [] "th_uix_staffMessageSignature" => [] "th_uix_staffMessageUserBlock" => [] "th_uix_threadStarterMessageBlock" => [] "th_uix_threadStarterMessageNewIndicator" => [] "th_uix_threadStarterMessageSignature" => [] "th_uix_threadStarterMessageUserBlock" => [] "thdonate_separateCompletedCampaigns" => 0 "thfeature_defaultFeatureBackground" => "" "thfeature_display_style" => "default" "thfeature_firstPost_article" => 1 "thfeature_firstPost_author" => 1 "thfeature_firstPost_style" => array:2 [ …2] "thfeature_icon_size" => "l" "thfeature_icon_style" => "default" "thfeature_pageTitle" => 0 "thmonetize_userUpgradeCurrency" => array:1 [ …1] "thmonetize_userUpgradeLength" => array:1 [ …1] "thmonetize_userUpgradeOccurrence" => array:1 [ …1] "thmonetize_userUpgradePrice" => array:1 [ …1] "thmonetize_userUpgradeShapeBorderWidth" => "12px" "thmonetize_userUpgradeShapeWidth" => "220px" "thnodes_enable_header_styling_categoryView" => 0 "thnodes_enable_header_styling_forumView" => 0 "thnodes_enable_header_styling_threadView" => 0 "thnodes_enable_icons" => 0 "thnodes_show_header_icon" => 0 "thuix_webapp_icon192x192" => "" "thuix_webapp_icon512x512" => "" "thxpress_articleFeaturedImageCover" => 1 "thxpress_carouselItems" => "1" "thxpress_excerpt" => 1 "thxpress_excerptLimit" => "55" "thxpress_hideSignature" => 0 "thxpress_postThumbnails" => 1 "thxpress_showFunctionalTags" => 0 "voteNegativeColor" => "rgb(200, 68, 72)" "votePositiveColor" => "rgb(99, 178, 101)" "warningBg" => "rgb(251, 247, 226)" "warningColor" => "rgb(132, 101, 61)" "warningFeatureColor" => "rgb(220, 218, 84)" "whatsNewNavStyle" => "tabs" "xfmgCategoryList" => "container" "xpress_articleThumbnailSize" => "thumbnail" "xpress_categoryScroller" => 1 "xpress_removeFeaturedMeta" => 0 "xpress_vwColumnBreakpoint" => "650px" "zIndexMultiplier" => "100" ] #options: array:14 [ "style_id" => 27 "parent_id" => 26 "parent_list" => array:6 [ …6] "title" => "Realms: Sniper's Hide (Dark)" "description" => "" "assets" => [] "effective_assets" => [] "user_selectable" => true "designer_mode" => null "th_product_id_uix" => 0 "th_product_version_uix" => null "th_primary_child_uix" => false "th_child_style_xml_uix" => "" "th_child_style_cache_uix" => [] ] } "isRtl" => false "options" => ArrayObject {#229 -storage: array:573 [ "acpSearchExclude" => [] "activitySummaryEmail" => array:4 [ …4] "activitySummaryEmailBatchLimit" => "100" "ad_lb_alertTop" => "15" "ad_lb_awardTop" => "10" "ad_lb_cache" => "5" "ad_lb_defaultSort" => "weekly" "ad_lb_enable_pagination" => "1" "ad_lb_incrementNumber" => "5" "ad_lb_rankChanges" => "1" "ad_lb_types" => array:5 [ …5] "ad_lb_userEntry" => "1" "ad_lb_userEntry_rank" => "1" "adav_level_formula" => "logarithmic" "adav_level_formula_data" => array:4 [ …4] "adca_dismissDuration" => "0" "adca_dismissible" => "1" "adca_notifyCutoff" => "7" "adca_notifyUserAfter" => "7" "addBanUserGroup" => "23" "adminRequireTfa" => "0" "adsDisallowedTemplates" => """ error\n login\n login_password_confirm\n login_two_step\n message_page\n register_complete\n register_connected_account\n register_confirm\n register_form """ "akismetKey" => "8be4acf584c1" "alertExpiryDays" => "3" "alertsPerPage" => "25" "alertsPopupExpiryDays" => "7" "allowGuestRte" => "1" "allowVideoUploads" => array:2 [ …2] "allowedCodeLanguages" => """ apacheconf\n applescript\n aspnet\n bash\n c\n clike\n coffeescript\n cpp\n csharp\n css\n diff\n git\n html\n http\n ini\n java\n javascript\n json\n jsx\n less\n makefile\n markdown\n nginx\n objectivec\n perl\n php\n python\n ruby\n sass\n scss\n sql\n svg\n swift\n wiki\n xml\n yaml """ "approveSharedBannedRejectedIp" => array:2 [ …2] "attachmentExtensions" => """ zip\n txt\n pdf\n png\n jpg\n jpeg\n jpe\n gif """ "attachmentMaxDimensions" => array:2 [ …2] "attachmentMaxFileSize" => "25000" "attachmentMaxPerMessage" => "25" "attachmentThumbnailDimensions" => "150" "audapi_oauthEncryptionKey" => "hacxn11Rc7qZVYsNav1FwiFV3dkluCMUZw81Czgdjg0=" "audapi_oauthPrivateKey" => """ -----BEGIN PRIVATE KEY-----\n MIIEvwIBADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCBKkwggSlAgEAAoIBAQDq+QDCK3Xe/IMi\n 0SgreLG/PSnt6AK5L1DNvjpWmic4EjMMcAej7SB9J5gxUUQAoPClERbAwrplb7Zl\n Fq2udfIR6HXVkGKYq6uiLKeNKgKT4cFSjoQ73JnfPHJQwQG7aHvLyz8Bz6u2u9fJ\n YlBRu2oFhDEmie0kgAbXYD9by3jYTv/hSp7gTDT8TdHnMc4GKqcfk5qhnJn++uKy\n QzNSLsZsq86bANUfu8y6HEMV8qwjGpzZ8X3TlbmcCxuvNN3EDiU4GGPdsuyQbMXv\n II2FSE4OfSwAPp6uBJuTDhSD6pUyV6Byk7x6iKis25KndHBcRqVSY7G1Uw3VzRFg\n 4RiwczvvAgMBAAECggEBAJm9UkG5LeY4UZT2RNIsph/6ZPTEWQPRcY0saf8/3WlS\n fxQkONuIyzkYLvwVr+i5ZLqb88crocm8zhpWPE1p3njZIEAbuGcr66CwlvBGDGm1\n zEe3980zCXqGkkVEA14bfuRYl2EX/8IQJaAeM29GsJfrZj1RAVhgbBl/X/UvrGHa\n DZ8ppq4duRn9VBg3oHLeS42jZbgAwoW2RS9ffHpby4Ju9PDTo8IeArJamndofB7E\n QaaTPVkNp4RULEFvQb4p58DHK7JBbNvLVMcp+bmdTRXKYjAoXUdjqg+USdabKZsj\n /HZ6DFHICWa5/RubC9mBvm67CK1xADKeVrrf1th/bAECgYEA9dZFk67dnCwrm4Yn\n N53q2aMSAv7zM+gS1LBBKFNpolSfDvGiW1AQ83gXa7x9ULjQkE7bzg+lrA5YjwU+\n cp+09vKzy8HPC14oVJfuPUD/sh9X57cFDAIr5VWvAtTjwX6XOx3TMnwN9FCg2fk6\n aI54/+jH4l9po2QzFDK9MfOrfDUCgYEA9K/AnWQ5QJmNTfCjFcV8kHjJgCoS42BP\n iTKyTniDASSxGUNMxt0Hqu1m9jDwduHhi4X+KibVTaMexdkta6KPNgpFYSCWgwcj\n SwVv0xxoqiYGv1n5TTpcPM+4tVgSSdNiQsj2x3CaQXRH4W9rd3FBqI/bSb6kXgEV\n uu2fl7DNdBMCgYEAh9quvotfKmP6gUrkt0aMt1L3rDIqQmAYr/LrPxbBhJTRBZgh\n Cec4RuPxxXb3pblMgMMjkz9wZaHT7M2QEhYSEnpTQ+HJwlV5Yi5H2Q/nfg72LDYn\n EtjMW0M7oQv3BUIo3uF/iiGmMIKyMWMalRdO5NVGSOJDZakE1T+o8EbhWJUCgYEA\n lOMUqzC+/aXxq4lPUwIWJ7q3sbroP17tRqiIguMlo951vM+MujzoW4OVcRyaVVxg\n 54si+vciN9mX8f+SeboytklNqiowK45+VTn7r1PMBCybUngnEG0Ajyg+Vmo+xplP\n Yx/xua20zzs4Od6YX9eUgkL2xkqwrVqvpEzPHXhBq+0CgYBHTUVg6HTCS7/70ckk\n Za3OGmtn7OSlUIr5+RlMuYKZJ9qPEevkasyZ7lVKd8wzXOcYWRVCS39WbFQSp5r/\n g+uewXlkn5alw2g3zbctmqqkGuIOn3HwC/uNsJ4sWWYhDvSXt4no8S1uAisBANIK\n mTCpQEzuFWBAp/LmHDEZJ9Np8g==\n -----END PRIVATE KEY-----\n """ "audapi_oauthPublicKey" => """ -----BEGIN PUBLIC KEY-----\n MIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA6vkAwit13vyDItEoK3ix\n vz0p7egCuS9Qzb46VponOBIzDHAHo+0gfSeYMVFEAKDwpREWwMK6ZW+2ZRatrnXy\n Eeh11ZBimKuroiynjSoCk+HBUo6EO9yZ3zxyUMEBu2h7y8s/Ac+rtrvXyWJQUbtq\n BYQxJontJIAG12A/W8t42E7/4Uqe4Ew0/E3R5zHOBiqnH5OaoZyZ/vriskMzUi7G\n bKvOmwDVH7vMuhxDFfKsIxqc2fF905W5nAsbrzTdxA4lOBhj3bLskGzF7yCNhUhO\n Dn0sAD6ergSbkw4Ug+qVMlegcpO8eoiorNuSp3RwXEalUmOxtVMN1c0RYOEYsHM7\n 7wIDAQAB\n -----END PUBLIC KEY-----\n """ "audapp_appConfig" => array:4 [ …4] "audapp_appConfigFailures" => "0" "audapp_appConfigKey" => "d3ZYUjJEUEFxdERyOWlWbQ==" "audapp_appId" => "com.snipershide.app" "audapp_appleBid" => "com.snipershide.app.ios" "audapp_appleEnvironment" => "default" "audapp_appleSharedSecret" => "f0673ec43fea4ce69a9cab6b362d3738" "audapp_darkStyleId" => "22" "audapp_enableAppInstallBanner" => "1" "audapp_enableExtraNodeData" => "1" "audapp_enableInlineAds" => "1" "audapp_enableInterstitialAds" => "1" "audapp_enablePushLog" => "0" "audapp_featureToggles" => array:11 [ …11] "audapp_googleClientEmail" => "[email protected]" "audapp_googlePackageName" => "com.snipershide.app.android" "audapp_googlePrivateKey" => "-----BEGIN PRIVATE KEY-----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\nSrUfD9J1NACHWIyn0VfLwuXB\n-----END PRIVATE KEY-----\n" "audapp_googleProjectId" => "pc-api-8550534343379152468-165" "audapp_iOSAppStoreId" => "" "audapp_isSetup" => "1" "audapp_killApp" => "0" "audapp_killPushNotifications" => "0" "audapp_lightStyleId" => "21" "audapp_logPushApiErrors" => "0" "audapp_newPostDisplayMode" => "thread" "audapp_pageDisplayTypes" => array:5 [ …5] "audav_earn_alerts" => "first" "audav_level_alerts" => "1" "audav_showEarnOnModal" => "0" "audentioapi_oauthAccessTokenTTL" => "2592000" "audentioapi_oauthRefreshTokenTTL" => "5184000" "audentiocommunity_lastReportEval" => "0" "audentiocommunity_reportScore" => "0" "audentioleaderboards_pageSize" => "25" "audfeeds_ajaxTabs" => "1" "audfeeds_ajaxUpdate" => "1" "audfeeds_ajaxUpdateRate" => "5" "audfeeds_availablePrefixFilters" => [] "audfeeds_availableTTFilters" => [] "audfeeds_cachePageCount" => "1" "audfeeds_cacheTime" => "5" "audfeeds_cacheTimeLong" => "24" "audfeeds_createButton" => array:7 [ …7] "audfeeds_curatedLimit" => "100" "audfeeds_curatedMaxDays" => "30" "audfeeds_decay" => "exp" "audfeeds_dropdownSelect" => "1" "audfeeds_enableCustomOrder" => "0" "audfeeds_enableNodeFilter" => "1" "audfeeds_enablePage" => "1" "audfeeds_entriesPerPage" => "25" "audfeeds_excludeNodeIds" => [] "audfeeds_filterAutoSave" => "0" "audfeeds_filterWidgetPosition" => "sidenav" "audfeeds_hideGuestMedia" => "1" "audfeeds_holdPromotionX" => "60" "audfeeds_maxPages" => "1000" "audfeeds_newsFeedReactions" => "0" "audfeeds_promoteEverySocialX" => "60" "audfeeds_promoteEveryX" => "60" "audfeeds_redirectWhatsNew" => "0" "audfeeds_unlimitedScroll" => "1" "audfeeds_unreadIndicators" => "1" "audfeeds_weightComment" => "1000" "audfeeds_weightPost" => "1000" "audfeeds_weightRating" => "1000" "audfeeds_weightReaction" => "100" "audfeeds_weightReactionSocial" => "100" "audfeeds_weightView" => "1" "audlive_logApiErrors" => "0" "autoEmbedMedia" => array:2 [ …2] "boardActive" => "1" "boardDescription" => "Sniper's Hide Forum" "boardInactiveMessage" => "Sniper's Hide is currently undergoing an upgrade. Check back in a few hours!" "boardShortTitle" => "" "boardTitle" => "Sniper's Hide Forum" "boardUrl" => "https://www.snipershide.com/shooting" "boardUrlCanonical" => "0" "bounceEmailAddress" => "" "captcha" => "ReCaptcha" "categoryOwnPage" => "0" "censorCharacter" => "*" "censorWords" => [] "changeLogLength" => "60" "collectServerStats" => array:4 [ …4] "contactEmailAddress" => "[email protected]" "contactEmailSenderHeader" => "0" "contactUrl" => array:3 [ …3] "conversationPopupExpiryHours" => "72" "convertMarkdownToBbCode" => "0" "cookieConsent" => array:1 [ …1] "cookieConsentLogLength" => "90" "currentVersionId" => "2021672" "defaultEmailAddress" => "[email protected]" "defaultEmailStyleId" => "15" "defaultLanguageId" => "1" "defaultStyleId" => "27" "disallowedCustomTitles" => """ admin\n moderator """ "discourageBlankChance" => "10" "discourageDelay" => array:2 [ …2] "discourageFloodMultiplier" => "10" "discourageRedirectChance" => "15" "discourageRedirectUrl" => "" "discourageSearchChance" => "40" "discussionPreview" => "1" "discussionRssContentLength" => "500" "discussionsPerPage" => "20" "displayVisitorCount" => "title_and_icon" "dynamicAvatarEnable" => "1" "editHistory" => array:2 [ …2] "editLogDisplay" => array:2 [ …2] "editorDropdownConfig" => array:1 [ …1] "editorToolbarConfig" => array:4 [ …4] "emailBounceHandler" => array:7 [ …7] "emailConversationIncludeMessage" => "1" "emailDkim" => array:5 [ …5] "emailFileCheckWarning" => array:2 [ …2] "emailSenderName" => "" "emailShare" => "1" "emailSoftBounceThreshold" => array:3 [ …3] "emailTransport" => array:7 [ …7] "emailUnsubscribeHandler" => array:7 [ …7] "emailWatchedThreadIncludeMessage" => "1" "emojiSource" => array:2 [ …2] "emojiStyle" => "emojione" "enableMemberList" => "0" "enableNewsFeed" => "1" "enableNotices" => "1" "enablePush" => "1" "enableSearch" => "1" "enableTagging" => "1" "enableTrophies" => "0" "enableVerp" => "1" "extraCaptchaKeys" => array:2 [ …2] "facebookLike" => "1" "floodCheckLength" => "30" "floodCheckLengthDiscussion" => "180" "forumsDefaultPage" => "forums" "geoLocationUrl" => "https://maps.google.com/maps?q={location}" "giphy" => array:3 [ …3] "googleAnalyticsAnonymize" => "1" "googleAnalyticsWebPropertyId" => "UA-91918309-1" "gravatarEnable" => "0" "guestShowSignatures" => "0" "guestTimeZone" => "America/New_York" "homePageUrl" => "https://thehide.tv/" "imageCacheRefresh" => "0" "imageCacheTTL" => "7" "imageLibrary" => "gd" "imageLinkProxy" => array:2 [ …2] "imageLinkProxyKey" => "" "imageLinkProxyLogLength" => "90" "imageLinkProxyReferrer" => array:2 [ …2] "imageProxyBypass" => array:2 [ …2] "imageProxyMaxSize" => "51200" "import_vb_table" => "xf_import_vbulletin5_log" "includeCaptchaPrivacyPolicy" => "1" "includeTitleInUrls" => "1" "indexRoute" => "forums/" "ipInfoUrl" => "http://whatismyipaddress.com/ip/{ip}" "ipLogCleanUp" => array:2 [ …2] "jQuerySource" => "local" "jobRunTrigger" => "server" "jsLastUpdate" => "1725390632" "lastPageLinks" => "3" "lightBoxUniversal" => "0" "linkShare" => "1" "loginLimit" => "block" "logoLink" => "0" "lostPasswordCaptcha" => "1" "lostPasswordTimeLimit" => "180" "maxContentSpamMessages" => "2" "maxContentTags" => "10" "maxContentTagsPerUser" => "10" "maximumSearchResults" => "200" "membersPerPage" => "20" "messageMaxImages" => "25" "messageMaxLength" => "1000000" "messageMaxMedia" => "20" "messagesPerPage" => "50" "moderatorLogLength" => "0" "multiQuote" => "1" "newsFeedMaxItems" => "15" "newsFeedMessageSnippetLength" => "140" "nfCalendarAgendaViews" => "1" "nfCalendarBoundaryFilterDistance" => array:2 [ …2] "nfCalendarDefaultListView" => "listMonth" "nfCalendarDefaultView" => "agendaWeek" "nfCalendarEventCalLimit" => "5" "nfCalendarEventFromLimit" => "5" "nfCalendarEventUnreadCounter" => "0" "nfCalendarEventsPerPage" => "20" "nfCalendarGoogleApi" => "" "nfCalendarIncludeBirthdays" => array:2 [ …2] "nfCalendarIncludeWeekends" => "1" "nfCalendarIndexBirthdays" => "1" "nfCalendarIndexFutureBirthdays" => "1" "nfCalendarLayoutType" => "calendar" "nfCalendarLocationComplete" => "1" "nfCalendarMaxMessageLength" => "10000" "nfCalendarMinMessageLength" => "0" "nfCalendarNLP" => "0" "nfCalendarPrefillDateTime" => "1" "nfCalendarSelectable" => "0" "nfCalendarWeekStart" => "1" "oEmbedCacheRefresh" => "0" "oEmbedCacheTTL" => "7" "oEmbedLogLength" => "90" "oEmbedRequestReferrer" => array:2 [ …2] "onlineStatusTimeout" => "15" "pinterestShare" => "0" "pollMaximumResponses" => "10" "preRegAction" => array:3 [ …3] "preventDiscouragedRegistration" => "1" "privacyPolicyForceWhitelist" => "" "privacyPolicyLastUpdate" => "0" "privacyPolicyUrl" => array:2 [ …2] "profilePostMaxLength" => "500" "pushKeysVAPID" => array:2 [ …2] "readMarkingDataLifetime" => "30" "realms_createAchievements" => "1" "realms_logApiErrors" => "0" "realms_overrideLoginRegister" => "1" "realms_primaryRealmId" => "1" "realms_syncAchievements" => "0" "realms_syncQuizzes" => "0" "redditShare" => "0" "registrationCheckDnsBl" => array:3 [ …3] "registrationDefaults" => array:16 [ …16] "registrationSetup" => array:7 [ …7] "registrationTimer" => "15" "registrationWelcome" => array:13 [ …13] "reportIntoForumId" => "0" "romanizeUrls" => "0" "rootBreadcrumb" => "forums" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_CA" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_DE" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_ES" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_FR" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_IN" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_IT" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_JP" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_AMAZON_ASSOCIATE_TAG_UK" => "" "s9e_MediaSites_ClickToLoad" => "0" "s9e_MediaSites_ClickToLoad_Oembed" => "0" "s9e_MediaSites_FindInPage" => "1" "s9e_MediaSites_Footer" => "show" "s9e_MediaSites_Full_Width_Embeds" => "0" "s9e_MediaSites_Markup" => "media" "s9e_MediaSites_MastodonHosts" => "mastodon.social" "s9e_MediaSites_Miniplayer" => "1" 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Do you have a point, or do you just want to insult everyone? The Whisper was a perfectly good niche cartridge. AAC broadened its scope, taking it into a market that was asking for options. They copied the Whisper, and added a supersonic load that people could use when it fit their needs.
The point is that any conversation about it begins and ends with 16" or shorter barrels, thus the discussion about SBR's.
The BO is ONLY unique in its SBR and subsonic capabilities, otherwise its just a 7.62x39 in a 5.56 blanket.
At this point, though, everything is pretty much useless to the OP. Hopefully he can sort through and get the information he needs.
PS--My last official IQ test put me short of Benjamin Netanyahu's, but in front of Bill O'Reilly, so I think I'm Ok there. LOL
As far as cognition, I deal everyday with something like 2 to the 20th power variables several times an hour. I've yet to be sued for making a mistake doing that for the past 20 years, so I think my cognitive powers remain relatively undiminished as well.
Sorry to disappoint you on both counts.
LRRP, c'mon man. I've seen a bunch of your posts and they've all been spot on. This one though, this one is reaching like a mofo. If you want to compare the efficacy of an SBR in 308 to one in 6.5G then at least note that you're using a shit projectile in the 308. The whole velocity thing is also BS. POF has chrono'd factory 178's at an AVERAGE of 2311fps. Getting 2400 out of a 150 or 155 is EASY. That isn't even a hot load. Hell, I almost exclusively run the 1.370" (surprisingly shorter than the 185 grainer) 190 gr Berger Hunting VLDs at 2285fps in my 12" 308 and it demolishes anything the 6.5G would put out of a 12.5" barrel at 2325.....and my complete 12" 308 weighs a hair over 7 lbs. We both know that ain't heavy for any rig putting 1600 fpe on a target at 500 yards. Using the 190 gr I can out shoot a 12.5" shooting a 123 gr Scenar with .527 BC at 1000 yards - that would include elevation & wind drift (with 10mph full value from 3 o'clock) as well as energy on target. The versatility of the 308 in terms of the variance in projectile weight in the context of a hunting application really can't be touched by the 6.5G.......... Unless you're dead set on using .435 BC projos in your .308 of course.
The 6.5G is a bad ass AR15 chambering though....I think I prefer it in a 14.5" or 16" midlength to get all the value I can out of it...
I agree with this. Comparing SBR .308 is sort of cherry picking the data. Most powders are not even close to burning out which is why building a .308 gun under 16in is reserved for fools.
Also, .308 Case, not .308 is what we be talking about. .260/6.5CM blow .308 out of the water at range. Lets compare two 18-20" 6.G and 6.5CM and see what the number gods say?
…and know a little bit about pushing the envelope with the .308 gassers, to include using Palma brass...
jasonfaz suggested the .308 SBR, so I ran a comparison between the 2. I also agree that a .308 SBR is a fire breather and not practical, with a lot of wasted case capacity for the performance, but I'm open to anyone's real world data and experience to counter my opinions.....
jasonfaz suggested the .308 SBR, so I ran a comparison between the 2. I also agree that a .308 SBR is a fire breather and not practical, with a lot of wasted case capacity for the performance, but I'm open to anyone's real world data and experience to counter my opinions.
I was actually quite surprised to see that I lose only 200yds of supersonic performance between my 16" 6.5 Grendel with a factory loaded 123gr A-MAX, compared to my 22" .260 Remington GAP AR10 with a hand loaded 123gr A-MAX. The Grendel carbine is supersonic for me out to 1318yds with that Hornady box ammo, while the .260 Rem is supersonic out to a little over 1500yds, both at 4400ft elevation, 80 degrees F.
These are both effective ranges well outside of the capabilities and range limitations of more than half of the shooters in the Country. If I go with a 20" Grendel barrel, I close that 200yd gap between .260 Rem and Grendel. I honestly thought my 16" Grendel carbine was a 700yd at most little fun target gun, but it opened my eyes when I was challenged by some retired Feds out kicking up dirt at distance to make an attempt at a 1200yd target they were shooting at out at one of my long range shooting spots.
I can push the 130gr VLD from my .260 Rem and beat that, but running the same bullet from an equal barrel length Grendel will not be that different than the .260 Rem at distance. The .260 Rem pays off at closer range in competition simply due to speed. There is a noticeable difference when you center punch a plate within 600yds with the .260 Remington, versus a 16" Grendel. I haven't compared a 22" Grendel side by side with the .260 though.
jasonfaz suggested the .308 SBR, so I ran a comparison between the 2. I also agree that a .308 SBR is a fire breather and not practical, with a lot of wasted case capacity for the performance, but I'm open to anyone's real world data and experience to counter my opinions.
I was actually quite surprised to see that I lose only 200yds of supersonic performance between my 16" 6.5 Grendel with a factory loaded 123gr A-MAX, compared to my 22" .260 Remington GAP AR10 with a hand loaded 123gr A-MAX. The Grendel carbine is supersonic for me out to 1318yds with that Hornady box ammo, while the .260 Rem is supersonic out to a little over 1500yds, both at 4400ft elevation, 80 degrees F.
These are both effective ranges well outside of the capabilities and range limitations of more than half of the shooters in the Country. If I go with a 20" Grendel barrel, I close that 200yd gap between .260 Rem and Grendel. I honestly thought my 16" Grendel carbine was a 700yd at most little fun target gun, but it opened my eyes when I was challenged by some retired Feds out kicking up dirt at distance to make an attempt at a 1200yd target they were shooting at out at one of my long range shooting spots.
I can push the 130gr VLD from my .260 Rem and beat that, but running the same bullet from an equal barrel length Grendel will not be that different than the .260 Rem at distance. The .260 Rem pays off at closer range in competition simply due to speed. There is a noticeable difference when you center punch a plate within 600yds with the .260 Remington, versus a 16" Grendel. I haven't compared a 22" Grendel side by side with the .260 though.
...while factory 178 Hornady Superformance BTHP Match factory loads have a published velocity of 2775 out of the same 24" barrel length. I can shoot those all day pushing damn close to 2400 fps...
I hear ya man. Just pointing out that SBR comparison.
How do the numbers run when you get into the higher BC .260 pills?
I was never able to get the 178gr Superformance factory ammo to work reliably out of any of my AR308 gas guns... Blown primers and poor accuracy were the order of the day. I did not have any 12.5" guns but I did own a range of AR308s with barrels from 14.5" to 22".
Are you using a tuned gas block, a specific .308 chambering, or...?
Yep, adjustable gas, significant machining to the receiver and carrier to add about 1.8 ounces to the carrier and increase lock time, A5 length buffer tube, and either the 8.5oz heavy buffer and custom spring from Slash's or a JP SCS with 110 tension spring and the derlin spacer cut down about .70" or so.
I'd throw a picture up, but I just finished completely sand blasting it in prep for Cerakote. So it's going to look like an alien gun.
So you're making these comparison to the Grendel, based on .308 rigs with your custom machine work???
I'm not saying it doesn't fix a problem and isn't a good solution, but the majority of shooters don't have access to these solutions.
Why are you comparing 178gr class of projectiles to the 123gr class of projectiles? You should be using the 140gr or 130gr at the very least.
"It’s glaringly obvious that you shoot paper and steel, and maybe that’s why you overlooked the entire basis of my comparison and the fact in was in the context of hunting."
Yet you choice target projectiles. While completely over looking the fact that manufacturers put a minimum impact velocity on their projectiles as opposed to minimum Energy for a reason. As I've stated before it takes a specific amount of Energy to open a specific bullet. Typically it takes more energy to open the larger caliber bullet when using comparable bullets.
You can impact with 2000 ft lbs of energy, but if your bullet doesn't open up and transfer that energy to the target then it's all but useless to you. you might as well shoot it with a 9mm FMJ.
In your "hunting" comparison of the 2 rounds, not considering similar rounds and their specific required impact velocity is either pure ignorance of hunting projectiles and physics or a blatant attempt to massage the data in your favor.
Moral of the story, if you hit your target above the required impact velocity, both platforms will sufficiently get the job done to comparable distances, with respect to hunting. It's weight savings/platform of choice vs range of projectiles.
Dude, youre killing me with this shit. Look back at when I made that comparison in response to Variable's fan-fucking-tastic idea of a 12.5" Grendel in the context of a......wait for it.....HUNTING application. I was nice and specifically stated how i could drop 1100+ fpe on a target at 400 yds. Clearly, considering the application being discussed within that comparison was hunting, I was using a hunting bullet while running the numbers. It wasnt until you decided to re-run your own comparison using a .435 BC 155 gr projo that i decided to cherry pick my own data as that was clearly what you were doing.
LRRP52 plays these games all day long.... He knows he is being misleading and spreading half truths.... It's his M O to help sales of his pet cartridge.... I don't even read his long winded bs.... He lives by the saying "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with Bullshit." If you pay attention he only does this on Grendel threads vs any other cartridge or tries to turn threads into that... I swear he searches the net for every 6.8 spc II thread to do it.... It's funny stuff.
I recall that the small rifle primers of the Palma brass achieve more consistent ignition, hence lower standard deviation of velocity, but I do not understand the connection to "pushing the envelope." Can you edify me/us in that regard?
This encapsulates one reason why I look forward to our Desert Tech MDR in .308, full-length barrel in a bull pup configuration, perhaps not as light as an SBR, but compact.
Yes, there is also some buzz that the MDR may be available in 6.5 Grendel and .300 BLK, so that fight may continue
Here's the point my man, I can use whatever 6.5 projo you want, but think about how many other choices I have with the .308. Again, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, it only gets worse for the Grendel using the best hunting bullets available for the .308 that will seat at mag length. You don't have much more room in that case. The 6.5 Scenar is a damn good projo for the Grendel. Probably the best right now. I, however, can do much better with the 308 as 178 isn't anywhere near as close to the weight (really length) ceiling as the 123 gr Scenar is to the max length/weight you'll be jamming into the 6.5G case.
If a 20" 6.5 can't even hit energy on target equal to the 12" 308, then how the fuck is a 12.5" 6.5G going to do it? Please do educate me. I very much do hesitate to speculate for fear that I may deviate from the true course of rectitude...
Yes, and the machining has zero effect on external ballistic properties. You don't have to have anything super duper special to pull it off. I've met a few others running 10.5" 308s. Not hard to pull off with some very basic upgrades as long as you understand what you need to address gaps you see in performance.
Read my initial post in response to variable. It was given in the context of hunting. My second post used a VLD HUNTING projectile. Sure as shit, someone had issues. As stated in my comparison, I tried to find the bullets with closest BC possible, that were readily available (as it was suggested Bergers are not - but they are), and specifically pointed out that shit only gets worse if I were able to pick a better hunting bullet to compare.
I did mention expansion thresholds, minimum velocities in above post. Read slower.
Here's the point my man, I can use whatever 6.5 projo you want, but think about how many other choices I have with the .308. Again, AS I MENTIONED ABOVE, it only gets worse for the Grendel using the best hunting bullets available for the .308 that will seat at mag length. You don't have much more room in that case. The 6.5 Scenar is a damn good projo for the Grendel. Probably the best right now. I, however, can do much better with the 308 as 178 isn't anywhere near as close to the weight (really length) ceiling as the 123 gr Scenar is to the max length/weight you'll be jamming into the 6.5G case.
If a 20" 6.5 can't even hit energy on target equal to the 12" 308, then how the fuck is a 12.5" 6.5G going to do it? Please do educate me. I very much do hesitate to speculate for fear that I may deviate from the true course of rectitude...
There's already a 129gr ABLR factory load, and has been a 130gr Swift Scirocco factory load for 10 years now. People can just order it, load it up, and shoot it from their rifle without doing any hand loading, or trying to find powders and combinations that will work well in a .308 gasser. In all the years I used .308 gassers, I never really found a happy place to be in terms of performance and brass/primer condition, which meant I was running well on the hot side of pressures, max book loads, low brass life, etc.
With the Grendel, we're looking at 20+ loads on brass, because the pressures are much lower. That's why for guys like me, it makes sense to put .308 away. Yes a 12" .308 put on a diet would make a nice little SBR hunter, especially with a can. Most people aren't going to go through the red tape for either just to go hunting. A little AR15 Grendel carbine with readily available common parts that your kids can shoot, and still drops large game DRT makes a lot more sense from a consumer perspective. The only thing .308 really has going for it is shelf availability after 60 years of being on the market.
As to weights of the two, I recently built a 20" Grendel that weighed 6.35lbs, so consider the 7lb 12" .308 in that light.
Maybe we need a new thread comparing .308 Winchester and 6.5 Grendel in that context.
...but if your bullet doesn't open up and transfer that energy to the target then it's all but useless to you....
You can get away with more pressure using Palma brass, without the same issues you would have with standard .308 brass, but no way was I going to invest in Palma brass for my gassers to not even be competitive still. Even hot-loaded Surgeon action bolt guns pushing the 155gr Scenar super fast have been all over the place for me at 1000yds, where the soup just has too much influence on the .308 Winchester. It's just not the cartridge that meets my needs for efficiency, even at higher altitudes, when talking much past 600yds.
There's an excellent thread posted here by one of the Finnish snipers and personal friend of mine, who did a nice comparison between Lapua Palma vs. Lapua .308 brass in the AR10. Short story was all the primer and ejector swipes went away with loads that exceed book maximums.
Alas, a variety of search terms did not locate that discussion for me. What's the upshot (pun intended) of the discussion? Why does a small rifle primer result in lower pressure? More consistent ignition, but lower pressure, lower velocity, lower performance?
So long story short, a 12.5" 308 AR with extensive machine work will run 200-300FPE more energy than a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel with no serious mods and both will peter out about the same range. And someone out there claims the 308 can be made as light as the grendel but we've not seen it yet. Or wait, was that the same guy that called us pussies for wanting a pound of material knocked off the weapon?
Why haven't we discussed the price difference between the 308 platforms and the AR-15? I want pie charts!
Your understanding of wound ballistics is weak to non-existent. What's next? Shooting watermelons?
ooo goody it sounds like things are warming back up here.
Have you read—or <b>published</b>—<i>anything</i> in the peer-reviewed wound ballistics literature?
People. predators and game animals, their circulatory systems, central nervous systems, their other organ systems, and the behavior of various projectiles in living tissues are not modeled by some pendulum and gong apparatus. We have about a half-century of medical and wound ballistics literature demonstrating that killing and wounding are not modeled by a high school physics equation.
Hahaha! I was thinking the same thing..."aww, fuck me. What now?"
But don't let me discourage you Nukes. School us on wound ballistics. Seriously, I'd be interested in your thoughts around the key aspects of what drives appropriate terminal performance of a projectile on soft targets of varying size.
I became tired of answering the same questions over and over, and hence, didn't reply to the last Corym babble. However, if I were to do so - in addition to minimum impact velocities - I would have mentioned things like bullet construction (material & design), angle of bullet path, expansion parameters (rate & range), bullet frontal area and impact surface, sectional density vs bullet diameter, target-specific variances and the logical correlation that can be made to projectile selection at various distances and velocities that might delineate between what's important and what's not when it comes to ensuring your projectile of choice behaves as one might expect as it relates to terminal performance. Hell, maybe throw in some momentum aspects and little Taylor KO formula just for shits and giggles.
But I'm no expert and would sincerely enjoy reading some educated feedback on the topic for a change!
First the punch line: There is no meaningful mathematical or quasi-mathematical model.
One can only offer a few generalities. In general, it is the size and location of the wound that determines the lethality (or incapacitation) of penetrating injuries. Whether ice-pick or firearm, a small low-velocity wound in a vital area can be nearly instantly deadly where a much larger high-velocity wound in a non-vital area may only injure with “high speed acupuncture.” A larger wound, of course, increases the probability of encountering and injuring a vital structure. For firearms, larger wounds are more likely from larger bullet diameter (“caliber”), from expanding bullets, and, in certain cases, from tumbling, yawing, or fragmenting bullets. It is the location and size of the permanent wound channel, the vital tissue actually destroyed, that primarily determines lethality. The effects of temporary stretching (“cavitation”) of <i>elastic</i> tissues or the sonic “shock wave” from a bullet’s passage have been greatly exaggerated. That said, cavitation in <i>solid</i> tissue (e.g., brain, bone, liver) is potentially devastating, especially in the central nervous system.
Obtaining a wound in a vital area, of course, depends upon shot placement which is a reflection of marksmanship mitigated by chance; the more skillful the marksman, including the marksman's understanding of the exterior ballistics, the smaller the role of luck. Discredited theories emphasizing—and even sometimes equating—kinetic energy or velocity with killing/wounding/incapacitation potential have no place in informed discussion. Myths about “high velocity” bullets, “shock waves,” and “cavitation” have been definitively dispelled in the medical and wound ballistics literature. Consider. The average Extracorporeal Shock Wave Lithotripsy (pulverizing kidney stones with ultrasound pulses) utilizes about 2,000 shock wave pulses, each of which is approximately three times the energy of a “high velocity” bullet, without any evidence whatsoever of soft tissue damage.
These general considerations multiply exponentially in complexity in an impossible-to-model matrix accounting for the variety of game animals (and humans), their sizes and physiological variations, what elastic and solid organs are encountered by an infinity of possible bullet tracks, and the behavior of different projectiles striking at an infinite multiplicity of angles, distances, and velocities.
So, to reiterate the punch line: There is no meaningful mathematical or quasi-mathematical model.
Put the biggest hole you can in the most vital structure you can hit—period.
The .308 will enter the target with a larger hole, but if it doesn't open, the .264 projectile can easily be the larger projectile as it exits, assuming it opened per design.
...will not expand...
Assuming! Most .264 bullets were designed for the 260 Rem and will not expand at the slower velocities the Grendel pushes them to especially in a SBR. The 120 TSX is a great bullet in a 260 but it is a poor choice in the Grendel because they do not expand. Sure they'll penetrate like no other...because they are basically a solid. Hornady's 123 SST and the Barnes 100gr TTSX may be the 2 best bullets for use in the Grendel. A 100gr TTSX in a Grendel SBR would be pretty bad ass.
308 bullets are well... 308 bullets we can be more sure they will expand since they were designed for use in the 308 unless talking about the 190gr + bullets made for the 300 WM.
Being base heavy, as a bullet encounters the beast, it will yaw and tumble. At 2.245" in length the 6.5mm 123 gn Hornady A-MAX and 129 gn SST can do plenty of damage yawing and tumbling through tissue without any expansion whatsoever. If an initially longer (2.750") .308 Hornady 165 gn SST expands to less than the 6.5mm's yawing and tumbling 2.245", the non-expanding projectile may do more, less, or the same damage as the expanding .308 projectile.
There are far too many variables to be dogmatic, rather than probabilistic, about what "will" happen.
One of the things I admire about Bryan Litz's exterior ballistics work is that he approaches long range accuracy as a probabilistic phenomenon affected by a multiplicity of factors, some of which are lost in the "noise." I think that we would do well to approach wound ballistics is an analogous fashion.
If it tumbles. Bill Waites posted a photo of a 120TSX recovered from a deer. The tip had expanded to apx 1/4" dia...roughly the same dia as the body of the bullet. I have no idea what stopped the bullet. Except for the tip it looked perfect. I've seen little 85gr TSXs pass through hogs end to end. I even positioned a large hog Sean Cody shot on an angle so I could shoot it in the front shoulder, it exited the rear ham...corner to corner through the thickest part of the shoulder blade.
I did? Where was that? I don't hunt deer, so I don't know where I would have gotten that picture! (I have to use wwaites here, bwaites is taken.)
I'm assuming from your sig line that you are Constructor/Builder etc. elsewhere?
I have no idea where you got the photo but it was on arfcom years ago. I said the same thing then... The 120 TSX will not expand properly out of the Grendel. Remember that little exchange?
I think thats what I said. They don't open the way they were designed to do in a 260.You aren't going to get the petals to peel around on themselves like a .260 Rem. at 100yds, but they will still open up fine within common hunting distances.
The only 120 TSX I've ever seen talked about post game animal was the one Mark Larue used to pile up an elk at 400 yards. And that one wasn't recovered. Its possible I'm forgetting something, though, since I'm getting old!