6gt

[diggler1833]

i have tested varget to 34.3 with 108s, settled at 34.

Yeah, there's more velocity on the table for sure, and I might go for it if I cant fine tune the seating depth to give me the results I want. There were zero pressure signs at 33.8.

2,900 was my "content with " velocity as long as I could get single digit SDs.

 

[Landon4]

i have tested varget to 34.3 with 108s, settled at 34.

Mine shoots great from 33.8-34 of varget with 108’s and cci 450’s

 

[DubfromGA]

Yes, good question. I plan on shooting bullets no heavier (longer) than 108gr. I have a 1:7.25", 26" 6 Creed barrel for the same rifle and didn't want a complete overlap with 110gr +.

I've done the same in my own little 6.5mm realm because I have two 6.5x47s and two 6.5 Creedmoors. My x47s were chambered with a .123 freebore as I just shoot 123 - 130gr bullets out of them. That leaves the 140s for the Creeds.

I don't compete. I'm just a good old boy who likes to shoot out of his shop and wander down onto the pastures to bang on some steel...and then I come on here and ramble excessively.

It is stupid how far I have to pack up and drive to get to a range where I can bang on steel targets.

Stupid, I tell ya.

One of these days I'd love having a spot of my own.......drive a 4wheeler to the mailbox, shooting bench, deer stand, targets, etc. One of these days..........

 

[Trevor300wsm]

View attachment 8345897

View attachment 8345893






View attachment 8345894





It is stupid how far I have to pack up and drive to get to a range where I can bang on steel targets.

Stupid, I tell ya.

One of these days I'd love having a spot of my own.......drive a 4wheeler to the mailbox, shooting bench, deer stand, targets, etc. One of these days..........

In case you had any doubts, it’s absolutely wonderful. I drive my CanAm everywhere. From my living room, it’s less than 7 minutes to my (private) range where I can shoot 500yds one direction and 1100 yards the other direction. This is also the same spot I have my deer blind setup, so I can hunt both ways during season. I have a small flatbed trailer I shoot off of if it’s wet/muddy. I just built a PRS barricade from 3” rectangular tubing. Gonna concrete it in the ground Monday. I sometimes take for granted how lucky I am.

 

[DubfromGA]

GA precision has that good-good brass in stock. Just ordered 400 more.

Forgive my ignorance.....green as hell, here.

By "good-good"....I assume you mean the Alpha OCD ?????

Or are you talking about the lower initial cost Hornady brass ???
I grabbed some Hornady cases while waiting on my action & barrel. Figured I'd have the brass prepped and ready to go, at least. Not sure how many firings to reasonably expect from it vs the Alpha OCD (which may prove more economical in the long run).


They also had the "gay tiger" head stamped brass. Hard passing on that stuff.

 

[Gray shooter]

Forgive my ignorance.....green as hell, here.

By "good-good"....I assume you mean the Alpha OCD ?????

Or are you talking about the lower initial cost Hornady brass ???
I grabbed some Hornady cases while waiting on my action & barrel. Figured I'd have the brass prepped and ready to go, at least. Not sure how many firings to reasonably expect from it vs the Alpha OCD (which may prove more economical in the long run).


They also had the "gay tiger" head stamped brass. Hard passing on that stuff.

I grabbed some of the Hornady brass from the start as well, it is half the price! I also started with a 100 of the Alpha brass and I now have about 400 rounds through the GT and the alpha is superior to the hornady. I have used the hornady brass for barrel break in and sighting in with different scopes as well to keep the firings down on the Alpha. The hornady brass is not bad brass, the alpha is just better. Don’t worry about it to much, save your lunch money for the alpha. The GT has been a super accurate caliber for me, have fun with it and enjoy the journey to 2000 rounds.

 

[WyomingShooter]

I have a box of 112 Match Burners to experiment with. Any suggestions using Varget or H4350? Thanks.

 

[CK1.0]

I have a box of 112 Match Burners to experiment with. Any suggestions using Varget or H4350? Thanks.

Try 32gn of Varget and see what MV it nets for you... safe, and you'll be right in the neighborhood of where you'll probably want to be. I'd guess 2800-2850fps in the summer...

The 112MBs are long, but the ogive isn't that far back, so .010" off in a SAAMI .120" freebore should have the bearing surface above the shoulder/neck junction (but IME they'll shoot with lots more jump if you're willing to seat them deeper into the case).

 

[LR1845]

Here’s .180 free bore in a 6GT…bullet is a 107g SMK…

1st pic is the freebore the barrel came with…got it from a buddy and he said it was .120

Had my smith add .060 yesterday

2nd pic is with .060 freebore added so total is .180

 

[RS14]

I have a box of 112 Match Burners to experiment with. Any suggestions using Varget or H4350? Thanks.

34.5g h4350

 

[4O6shootist]

I have a box of 112 Match Burners to experiment with. Any suggestions using Varget or H4350? Thanks.

I've found the 112mb to be a destructive killing bullet. I have a lighter build 24" barrel gt that I'm running them at 10k jump due to the 120fb chamber, 36.2 H4350 at 2910fps, shoots half moa or better for 5 shot groups at distance. Believe they seemed to like 70k jump in my first barrel 3 years back, but found the Barnes then to be extremely inconsistent bullet to bullet when the 112 first came out, they measure a lot better now.

 

[drglock]

In case you had any doubts, it’s absolutely wonderful. I drive my CanAm everywhere. From my living room, it’s less than 7 minutes to my (private) range where I can shoot 500yds one direction and 1100 yards the other direction. This is also the same spot I have my deer blind setup, so I can hunt both ways during season. I have a small flatbed trailer I shoot off of if it’s wet/muddy. I just built a PRS barricade from 3” rectangular tubing. Gonna concrete it in the ground Monday. I sometimes take for granted how lucky I am.

@Trevor300wsm do you shoot Fouled Bore matches

 

[Trevor300wsm]

@Trevor300wsm do you shoot Fouled Bore matches

I shot the match that Justin had there in January. I’ll probably shoot it again in March. I took a pretty long break (5yrs) from the PRS scene, but I’m gonna make a run at it again this year.

 

[WyomingShooter]

I loaded up 10 rounds of the 112 Matchburner over 36.3 grains H4350. The results were mediocre. I've had much better numbers with Varget.

 

[CJC73]

Just ran 45 rounds thru my new gt.
24" ace barrel, 7tw

H4350
35.5/35.7/36/36.3

Shot this 10 shot (shots 16-25 on new barrel) group with 35.7 avg was 2780 I think. 115 dtacs 30 thou off. .170fb.

 

[4O6shootist]

I loaded up 10 rounds of the 112 Matchburner over 36.3 grains H4350. The results were mediocre. I've had much better numbers with Varget.

View attachment 8347649

That's pretty slow, you'll probably see better accuracy results up around 2810-2830 avg. What's ur barrel length? I have several 8# jugs of H4350 from different lots, and velocity varies quite a bit.

 

[Yondering]

I loaded up 10 rounds of the 112 Matchburner over 36.3 grains H4350. The results were mediocre. I've had much better numbers with Varget.

View attachment 8347649

That's WAY slower than most of us seem to get with that load - I'm using that exact load in Hdy brass and see 2920 fps from my 26" barrel.

I don't know much about the Sig Cross though, other than handling one a bit - is that a factory barrel/chamber? If so that might be part of it. And what barrel length? If it's a short barrel like a lot of people seem to be using on the Cross, that'd be important context to give us here. If it's a short barrel you're not going to match the numbers most of us are getting, but ultimately H4350 will be able to push faster than Varget. If it's a looser factory chamber & throat, then you'll most likely need to bump the charge weights up a bit to end up at similar pressures to most of us with tight custom chambers.

I do hope you understand that if you're seeing higher velocity with Varget, then you're running it at higher pressure than H4350 with this bullet and cartridge combo. That's just how it works.

 

[CK1.0]

IDK guys, @CJC73 I don’t think that’s too slow for this time of year… some of the top PRS guys are running speeds in that neighborhood, 2700ish fps is the new “2800” for most of the Dasher guys lol.

I was going just over 2700fps the other day and printed a fist-sized 5-shot group at 1000 yards.

Speed has little to do with accuracy IMHO.

 

[RS14]

IDK guys, @CJC73 I don’t think that’s too slow for this time of year… some of the top PRS guys are running speeds in that neighborhood, 2700ish fps is the new “2800” for most of the Dasher guys lol.

I was going just over 2700fps the other day and printed a fist-sized 5-shot group at 1000 yards.

Speed has little to do with accuracy IMHO.

View attachment 8348530

Totally agree with this.

 

[4O6shootist]

Guys that rifle @WyomingShooter has is built on a sig cross, they come with 18" barrels oem, and the new barrel is probably on the short end as well. So I'd expect low velocity.

As to @CJC73 rig, that's a new 24" barrel, I think the upper 2700fps with 115s is about where that barrel should be with his charge of H4350. I run 35.3gr H4350 in a 28" at 2850-2850fps, round count of around 1k.

 

[CK1.0]

I actually slowed my rounds down on purpose a little while back...

I dropped a whole grain and went from ~2900fps at 88F to ~2800fps at 81F... and the only thing that changed is: now I can tell you which way a plate rocked and whether I was high or low on it inside 600 (at ~2900fps I couldn't pick it up as well until out to ~750 yards).

This is me maintenance checking on my current load (33gn SWPR) at 2 different temps (81F and 48F), then trying 32.5gn before deciding on 33gn (mostly based on 33gn being easier to remember than a number with a decibel point lol), and then when I was running 34gn and getting ~2900fps.

26" Proof SS Origin prefit (SKU 133484).

You can probably tell that I don't believe in any of that "nodes"/"ladder test" stuff, I do it like NASA does it: more/less fuel = more/less speed.

 

[4O6shootist]

@CK1.0 Impressed with the low SD with swpr powder, rhat low of case fill at 2800fps. I plan to try dropping my 115dtac load down to low 2800s as well, but the 28" barrel isn't helping matters!

 

[CK1.0]

@CK1.0 Impressed with the low SD with swpr powder, rhat low of case fill at 2800fps. I plan to try dropping my 115dtac load down to low 2800s as well, but the 28" barrel isn't helping matters!

Yeah... that's something I can't quite explain... for now my theory is something along the lines of Varget (or Lovex SO62 aka SWPR in my case) being the magic-sauce some guys make it out to be lol. I hadn't used it before, I was only really familiar with H4350 or Sta-Ball 6.5 in 6CM, but It's the whole reason I went to the 6GT, to be able to use Varget/SWPR and see what all the fuss was about? I've seen consistently great SDs that are amazing sometimes and I don't know exactly why?

I've always noticed that all the smaller 6mms that most rifle-nerds associate with accuracy and good manners (6BR, BRA, BRX, Dasher) all use Varget in their bread-and-butter recipes... and after shooting SWPR for a while now (Varget was unattainable and SWPR is as similar as it gets) I do think there is something to it... IDK, I don't have the PhD in Combustion I'd probably need to explain it, but I also don't t believe in coincidence lol...

I'm not saying that using other powders or going for more of a traditional case-fill isn't a valid way to go, it is... I'd like to try H4350/RL16 at some point in the GT maybe, but man this SWPR shit is easy, and Varget is supposed to be even more temp stable and f'ing easier. I've heard/read guys say the same things about VV N140/150 (which I'd also like to try)... so maybe it's a burn-rate thing? IDK...

That said, and it's pretty important, every single round this barrel has ever been fed has been loaded after I got my Ingenuity Precision trickler... so every single round has been loaded to the kernel (+/- 0.02gn), none under or over, no cheating, ever, not a one, if I was loading 33gn I accepted 32.98gn or 33.00gn only (the IP trickler virtually never overthrows, maybe once in 100, by .02gn, makes it easy to be OCD lol)... that's a key data point lol!

Maybe it has nothing to do with kind/burn-rate of the powder?

 

[4O6shootist]

Yeah... that's something I can't quite explain... for now my theory is something along the lines of Varget (or Lovex "Varget" aka SWPR in my case) being the magic-sauce some guys make it out to be lol. It's the whole reason I went to the 6GT, to be able to use Varget/SWPR and see what all the fuss was about? I've seen consistently great SDs that are amazing sometimes and I don't know exactly why?

I've always noticed that all the smaller 6mms that most rifle-nerds associate with accuracy and good manners (6BR, BRA, BRX, Dasher) all use Varget in their bread-and-butter recipes... and after shooting SWPR for a while now (Varget was unattainable and SWPR is as similar as it gets) I do think there is something to it... IDK, I don't have the degree in combustion I'd probably need to explain it lol..?

I'm not saying that using other powders or going for more of a traditional case-fill isn't a valid way to go, it is... but man this SWPR shit is easy, and Varget is supposed to be even more temp stable and f'ing easier.

Also, and it's pretty important, every single round this gun has ever been fed has been loaded after I got my Ingenuity Precision trickler... so every single round has been loaded to the kernel (+/- 0.02gn), none under or over, no cheating, ever, not a one... that's a key data point lol! Maybe it has nothing to do with kind/burn-rate of the powder?

I load on a IP trickler and auto throw as well. Awaiting their new thrower setup to compete that system. I don't load to dead nuts, I typically go one kernal over or under so a +- 0.04gr range, I typically see es of mid teens maybe low 20s on a 10 shot string. I may have to source a jug of this and try it, along with varget in the gt. I run N150(closer to varget) in my woman's 6gt with 107smk and it shoots very well, but I've found that powder to not deliver great SD numbers in 3 or 4 different cases, however accuracy is good! Es in low to mid 20s is typical of a 10-20 shot sting.

 

[CK1.0]

I load on a IP trickler and auto throw as well. Awaiting their new thrower setup to compete that system. I don't load to dead nuts, I typically go one kernal over or under so a +- 0.04gr range, I typically see es of mid teens maybe low 20s on a 10 shot string. I may have to source a jug of this and try it, along with varget in the gt. I run N150(closer to varget) in my woman's 6gt with 107smk and it shoots very well, but I've found that powder to not deliver great SD numbers in 3 or 4 different cases, however accuracy is good! Es in low to mid 20s is typical of a 10-20 shot sting.

IDK, the jury is still out for me on a lot of this stuff.

I feel like there's a lot of legacy "reloading lore" to get past with this stuff that is actually/probably BS, and we all can only wade through so much of it with our limited funds and time...

 

[WyomingShooter]

That's WAY slower than most of us seem to get with that load - I'm using that exact load in Hdy brass and see 2920 fps from my 26" barrel.

I don't know much about the Sig Cross though, other than handling one a bit - is that a factory barrel/chamber? If so that might be part of it. And what barrel length? If it's a short barrel like a lot of people seem to be using on the Cross, that'd be important context to give us here. If it's a short barrel you're not going to match the numbers most of us are getting, but ultimately H4350 will be able to push faster than Varget. If it's a looser factory chamber & throat, then you'll most likely need to bump the charge weights up a bit to end up at similar pressures to most of us with tight custom chambers.

I do hope you understand that if you're seeing higher velocity with Varget, then you're running it at higher pressure than H4350 with this bullet and cartridge combo. That's just how it works.

Thanks for the feedback. The barrel is 21.5" from Straight Jacket Armory. My sense is that Varget is the optimal powder for the 6GT. I'm not sure it's worth my while to use anything else.

 

[4O6shootist]

Thanks for the feedback. The barrel is 21.5" from Straight Jacket Armory. My sense is that Varget is the optimal powder for the 6GT. I'm not sure it's worth my while to use anything else.

I ran rl16 in my first barrel, and H4350 in the last 3. Very good results with 26-28" barrels and 109-115gr bullets. The lighter stuff with shorter bearing surfaces, maybe varget is the way to go. I've ran a lot of varget in two 6bra barrels and I found that 31gr load with 105s at 2850 built carbon rings faster than my 36.3-36.7gr H4350 gt loads. Varget has 15% high flame temp and burns a larger % of its charge in a shorter length distance than H4350. Sorry just nerding out over here........

 

[CJC73]

My buddy is using RL16 with great results in his GT. I'm going to look for a jug of N140, heard good things about it

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Yeah... that's something I can't quite explain... for now my theory is something along the lines of Varget (or Lovex SO62 aka SWPR in my case) being the magic-sauce some guys make it out to be lol. I hadn't used it before, I was only really familiar with H4350 or Sta-Ball 6.5 in 6CM, but It's the whole reason I went to the 6GT, to be able to use Varget/SWPR and see what all the fuss was about? I've seen consistently great SDs that are amazing sometimes and I don't know exactly why?

I've always noticed that all the smaller 6mms that most rifle-nerds associate with accuracy and good manners (6BR, BRA, BRX, Dasher) all use Varget in their bread-and-butter recipes... and after shooting SWPR for a while now (Varget was unattainable and SWPR is as similar as it gets) I do think there is something to it... IDK, I don't have the PhD in Combustion I'd probably need to explain it, but I also don't t believe in coincidence lol...

I'm not saying that using other powders or going for more of a traditional case-fill isn't a valid way to go, it is... I'd like to try H4350/RL16 at some point in the GT maybe, but man this SWPR shit is easy, and Varget is supposed to be even more temp stable and f'ing easier. I've heard/read guys say the same things about VV N140/150 (which I'd also like to try)... so maybe it's a burn-rate thing? IDK...

That said, and it's pretty important, every single round this barrel has ever been fed has been loaded after I got my Ingenuity Precision trickler... so every single round has been loaded to the kernel (+/- 0.02gn), none under or over, no cheating, ever, not a one, if I was loading 33gn I accepted 32.98gn or 33.00gn only (the IP trickler virtually never overthrows, maybe once in 100, by .02gn, makes it easy to be OCD lol)... that's a key data point lol!

Maybe it has nothing to do with kind/burn-rate of the powder?

I was initially all in on H4350 due to speed and accuracy. I switched to Varget due to insane hard carbon fouling with H4350. It seems with Varget I can't get over 6 SD no matter how sloppy my reloads. There is something to the Varget claim.

 

[Hickswr]

I was initially all in on H4350 due to speed and accuracy. I switched to Varget due to insane hard carbon fouling with H4350. It seems with Varget I can't get over 6 SD no matter how sloppy my reloads. There is something to the Varget claim.

What grain pills you shooting?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

What grain pills you shooting?

109 Berger Hybrids WA with 33.3gr Varget.

 

[Yondering]

IDK guys, @CJC73 I don’t think that’s too slow for this time of year… some of the top PRS guys are running speeds in that neighborhood, 2700ish fps is the new “2800” for most of the Dasher guys lol.

I was going just over 2700fps the other day and printed a fist-sized 5-shot group at 1000 yards.

Speed has little to do with accuracy IMHO.

View attachment 8348530

I'm trying to figure out how any of that is relevant to the discussion about that particular load? Not coming up with anything that makes sense, other than maybe communications got crossed somewhere. If you go back and look, I and 406Shootist were replying to WyomingShooter, but you seemed to reply to us that you didn't think CJ73's load was slow?

"This time of year" has nothing to do with it - the discussion was about a specific load using H4350 which is very temp stable, not some sensitive ball powder. No way it lost 150 fps due to "this time of year" - again referring to WyomingShooter's load.

Also don't see how other people loading down for PRS, or Dasher loads, or accuracy relating to speed have anything to do with this. The discussion was about the velocity difference one person saw with a specific load that was a lot slower than the exact same load for others of us.

 

[Yondering]

Thanks for the feedback. The barrel is 21.5" from Straight Jacket Armory. My sense is that Varget is the optimal powder for the 6GT. I'm not sure it's worth my while to use anything else.

There is no "optimal" powder across the board for any cartridge. It just doesn't work like that.

If your H4350 load was slower than your Varget load with the 112 MB in 6GT, then your Varget load was at higher pressure. End of story. That may be what you're after, but it'd be a mistake to think that Varget was capable of more velocity than H4350 in this particular combo; for some reason your H4350 load was at lower pressure, giving lower velocity.

Again, nothing at all wrong with loading down if that's what you're trying to do, but that's not what the comments regarding your load were about.

 

[diggler1833]

Well, I have abandoned the 107gr SMK/Varget attempt in my barrel. I got okay-ish accuracy, but never anything that knocked my socks off. I don't think that I had a single 5-shot group that exceeded an inch...but I had several 4 shot groups in the .2s with an unexplained flier that opened it up to 3/4". This isn't my first or second rodeo, and I exhausted seating depth and charge weight...and I'm not at the point where I want to start goofing with things like the friction interference.

The barrel will absolutely shoot, and it certainly likes the 105gr Hybrids. I just don't have any on hand. With a factory load and slight seating depth tweak I averaged right at .400" for multiple 5-shot groups, and a 2/3 MOA 10-shot group at 655 yards. But they were also loaded with what either looked like N150 or Reloader 16. I'll definitely investigate that load later.

I'm going to give the 108gr ELD-M and H4350 a try next. Its what i have a lot of. I've always had acceptable accuracy with the ELD-M in my other barrels at .020 - .030 off, so I'll start there and at 37.0gr and work my way up to 38.0. Hopefully it gives me a little hope until I can get my hands on the 105 hybrids.

If anyone has any 108 ELD and H4350 experience, I'd love to hear what works for you.

 

[LR1845]

Well, I have abandoned the 107gr SMK/Varget attempt in my barrel. I got okay-ish accuracy, but never anything that knocked my socks off. I don't think that I had a single 5-shot group that exceeded an inch...but I had several 4 shot groups in the .2s with an unexplained flier that opened it up to 3/4". This isn't my first or second rodeo, and I exhausted seating depth and charge weight...and I'm not at the point where I want to start goofing with things like the friction interference.

The barrel will absolutely shoot, and it certainly likes the 105gr Hybrids. I just don't have any on hand. With a factory load and slight seating depth tweak I averaged right at .400" for multiple 5-shot groups, and a 2/3 MOA 10-shot group at 655 yards. But they were also loaded with what either looked like N150 or Reloader 16. I'll definitely investigate that load later.

I'm going to give the 108gr ELD-M and H4350 a try next. Its what i have a lot of. I've always had acceptable accuracy with the ELD-M in my other barrels at .020 - .030 off, so I'll start there and at 37.0gr and work my way up to 38.0. Hopefully it gives me a little hope until I can get my hands on the 105 hybrids.

If anyone has any 108 ELD and H4350 experience, I'd love to hear what works for you.

What was your seating and charge weight/velocity range with the 107's?

 

[diggler1833]

What was your seating and charge weight/velocity range with the 107's?

27" Krieger

33.0 - 2,860 FPS - ES up to frigging 30
33.2 - 2,876 FPS - ES still about 25
33.4 - 2,888 FPS - ES still about 25
33.6 - 2,906 FPS (best accuracy) - ES 16 SD 8
33.8 - 2,924 FPS (next best) - ES 14 SD 6

^ These are only small sample sizes of 5 shots.

I ran off: .010, 020, .030, .035, .040, .045, and .050. I had the most luck at .040 (which is what I ran the charge weight test at) but was throwing the single flier, so I tried in and out .005 but without luck as that opened it up further.

There was zero pressure signs, but 33.8 was starting to open up. 2,900 was my target velocity.

Historically, my rifles/barrels that shoot Varget well will maintain an ES of 15 or less across an entire charge range. I've got plenty of powders to try on hand (N150, RL-16, H4350, SW LR, RL-15 etc...). Once I get this round of brass shot and prepped again I'll probably try after the 107s one more time but with a different powder.

 

[LR1845]

27" Krieger

33.0 - 2,860 FPS - ES up to frigging 30
33.2 - 2,876 FPS - ES still about 25
33.4 - 2,888 FPS - ES still about 25
33.6 - 2,906 FPS (best accuracy) - ES 16 SD 8
33.8 - 2,924 FPS (next best) - ES 14 SD 6

^ These are only small sample sizes of 5 shots.

I ran off: .010, 020, .030, .035, .040, .045, and .050. I had the most luck at .040 (which is what I ran the charge weight test at) but was throwing the single flier, so I tried in and out .005 but without luck as that opened it up further.

There was zero pressure signs, but 33.8 was starting to open up. 2,900 was my target velocity.

Historically, my rifles/barrels that shoot Varget well will maintain an ES of 15 or less across an entire charge range. I've got plenty of powders to try on hand (N150, RL-16, H4350, SW LR, RL-15 etc...). Once I get this round of brass shot and prepped again I'll probably try after the 107s one more time but with a different powder.

If you decide to play with the 107s and even the Hybrids start off at .050 off and work deeper and I bet you'll hit the sweet spot at .070 off...the problem you'll run into is getting into the neck/shoulder with the short free bore.

I'd just run the 4350 or the varget by the time you run through several different powders you'll be half way through the barrel...I'm running a 1.25" 27", Alpha brass, CCI450s and at 37g H4350 I'm right at 2950-2960, 37.5g is 2980-2990 and 38.1 is 2995-3005 with 107s at .060 off...at .040 off it shot like shit, at .060 off it tightened up and I'm will to bet .070 off is money, if its not raining in the morning I will finish this load up.

 

[diggler1833]

If you decide to play with the 107s and even the Hybrids start off at .050 off and work deeper and I bet you'll hit the sweet spot at .070 off...the problem you'll run into is getting into the neck/shoulder with the short free bore.

Yeah, I was touching at ~ 2.540 OAL (.120 freebore and I can't remember exactly, but it was within .005 of 2.540). You are probably right about getting into the neck. The longer ogive of the hybrid allowed me to run those a bit closer to the lands and get great accuracy...that is why I am going to give the 108 ELD a try.

 

[LR1845]

Yeah, I was touching at ~ 2.540 OAL (.120 freebore and I can't remember exactly, but it was within .005 of 2.540). You are probably right about getting into the neck. The longer ogive of the hybrid allowed me to run those a bit closer to the lands and get great accuracy...that is why I am going to give the 108 ELD a try.

I've only shot a few of the 108 ELD but if I remember they are pretty long...no matter what 105 class bullet I still think the .120 free bore is to short but then I do not like being close to the lands.

 

[John Glidewell]

I've only shot a few of the 108 ELD but if I remember they are pretty long...no matter what 105 class bullet I still think the .120 free bore is to short but then I do not like being close to the lands.

Yup, pretty much every bullet I have run is close to or at neck shoulder junction at .045. I will be looking to throat my next barrel a little. All mine are a .120 freebore. This is a 115 DTAC at .045

 

[LR1845]

Yup, pretty much every bullet I have run is close to or at neck shoulder junction at .045. I will be looking to throat my next barrel a little. All mine are a .120 freebore. This is a 115 DTAC at .045

I'd go .180 with the DTACs...If I end up sticking with the GT I will have a reamer made with a .180 free bore.

 

[WyomingShooter]

There is no "optimal" powder across the board for any cartridge. It just doesn't work like that.

If your H4350 load was slower than your Varget load with the 112 MB in 6GT, then your Varget load was at higher pressure. End of story. That may be what you're after, but it'd be a mistake to think that Varget was capable of more velocity than H4350 in this particular combo; for some reason your H4350 load was at lower pressure, giving lower velocity.

Again, nothing at all wrong with loading down if that's what you're trying to do, but that's not what the comments regarding your load were about.

Sir - Thanks for your note. It appears my post was unclear. My bad. I'm not chasing velocity. My interest is in reducing my SD and ES. In my limited 6GT experience, it seems that's easier done with Varget than with H4350 - at least with 105 - 112 grain bullets.

 

[CK1.0]

I'm trying to figure out how any of that is relevant to the discussion about that particular load? Not coming up with anything that makes sense, other than maybe communications got crossed somewhere. If you go back and look, I and 406Shootist were replying to WyomingShooter, but you seemed to reply to us that you didn't think CJ73's load was slow?

"This time of year" has nothing to do with it - the discussion was about a specific load using H4350 which is very temp stable, not some sensitive ball powder. No way it lost 150 fps due to "this time of year" - again referring to WyomingShooter's load.

Also don't see how other people loading down for PRS, or Dasher loads, or accuracy relating to speed have anything to do with this. The discussion was about the velocity difference one person saw with a specific load that was a lot slower than the exact same load for others of us.

Wow.

It appears I've somehow inadvertently stepped on someone's toes.

Sorry.

 

[NiteQwill]

IDK guys, @CJC73 I don’t think that’s too slow for this time of year… some of the top PRS guys are running speeds in that neighborhood, 2700ish fps is the new “2800” for most of the Dasher guys lol.

I was going just over 2700fps the other day and printed a fist-sized 5-shot group at 1000 yards.

Speed has little to do with accuracy IMHO.

View attachment 8348530

To add:

I ran the entire 2022 PRS season with my 6 GT going 2635 fps. It did very well. SDs between 3-11 through the life of a Hawk Hill Heavy Comp barrel at 22"

I wouldn't worry about slow speed in a 6 GT.

 

[drglock]

Yup, pretty much every bullet I have run is close to or at neck shoulder junction at .045. I will be looking to throat my next barrel a little. All mine are a .120 freebore. This is a 115 DTAC at .045

View attachment 8350540

Just to give you an idea where mine is at. Chambered with a Manson .120 freebore then throated out to .185 the best we could tell by measuring it. 115 DTACS at .061 off that measurement.

Just a quick ladder once I got 225 rounds on the barrel just to see velocity. H4350 and no pressure signs

 

[CK1.0]

I'm just about hanging on by a thread fighting the urge to buy a hand-throating reamer... I just haven't turned the corner in my head of how to gauge exactly how far to ream accurately..? (So far, my best plan seems to be to just use a dummy round and the same "Deep Creek method" I use to find my distance to the lands... but it might be a painfully slow process that way.)

Ideally, I'd like to be able to load/jump .100" off the lands if I want, with whatever bullet I choose, and using my bad-at-math, probably flawed, calculations... I think that would mean something like ~.210" of freebore.

I suppose I could take a barrel to a gunsmith with a lathe... but I like to avoid gunsmiths and prefer to work on my guns myself if possible, as IME many gunsmiths seem to be more snake-oil salesmen than rocket scientist, with most as dumb or dumber than me lol.

On one hand, I really do feel like using a healthy jump does do great things for one's vertical consistency downrange, but on the other hand, I'm not completely convinced reaming and more freebore is the only answer... as just simply seating bullets deeper into the case and purposefully breaking the "bearing surface above the neck/shoulder junction" reloading "rule" has seemed to work just fine too for me (no donuts, no issues, etc)... but I could've just been lucky, and luck tends to run out lol.

IDK..?

 

[LR1845]

I'm just about hanging on by a thread fighting the urge to buy a hand-throating reamer... I just haven't turned the corner in my head of how to gauge exactly how far to ream accurately..? (So far, my best plan seems to be to just use a dummy round and the same "Deep Creek method" I use to find my distance to the lands... but it might be a painfully slow process that way.)

Ideally, I'd like to be able to load/jump .100" off the lands if I want, with whatever bullet I choose, and using my bad-at-math, probably flawed, calculations... I think that would mean something like ~.210" of freebore.

I suppose I could take a barrel to a gunsmith with a lathe... but I like to avoid gunsmiths and prefer to work on my guns myself if possible, as IME many gunsmiths seem to be more snake-oil salesmen than rocket scientist, with most as dumb or dumber than me lol.

On one hand, I really do feel like using a healthy jump does do great things for one's vertical consistency downrange, but on the other hand, I'm not completely convinced reaming and more freebore is the only answer... as just simply seating bullets deeper into the case and purposefully breaking the "bearing surface above the neck/shoulder junction" reloading "rule" has seemed to work just fine too for me (no donuts, no issues, etc)... but I could've just been lucky, and luck tends to run out lol.

IDK..?

https://4drentals.com/products/precthroat/

Also your right in the ball park with your free bore to jump .100.

 

[Yondering]

Wow.

It appears I've somehow inadvertently stepped on someone's toes.

Sorry.

Not at all. Just trying to figure out what you were talking about. At first glance it looked like a poorly considered objection to our comments about velocity of a specific load, but on further consideration maybe you just mixed up which member we were talking to?

 

[Yondering]

Sir - Thanks for your note. It appears my post was unclear. My bad. I'm not chasing velocity. My interest is in reducing my SD and ES. In my limited 6GT experience, it seems that's easier done with Varget than with H4350 - at least with 105 - 112 grain bullets.

If that's how it's working out in your barrel, go for what works for sure - a lot of it depends on the velocity range you are looking for. That pretty well illustrates what I said about no one powder being optimal - if your goal is lower velocity with small SD, then a faster burn rate like Varget will be optimal for that application, while a goal of higher velocity (with equally low SD) will mean a different powder is optimal. One thing Varget does get you is lower charge weights, which equates to a little less recoil.

Personally I've noticed that H4350 is better suited to the heavy bullets than Varget, and got single digit SD from day one when loading in the 2850-2950 range with those 112's, but I started off with a goal of finding a node between 2800-2950 based on the ballistics I was looking for. However if your load is at lower pressure for some reason then you may likely see higher SD with H4350 than with Varget, which will peak pressure a little earlier and higher, and likely be more consistent at lower speeds. In my barrel the top end for the 112 over H4350 seems to be somewhere around 3,000 fps or higher, while Varget seems to be getting pretty hot even in the 2900 range, just my observations FWIW.

I'm still a little surprised how slow that H4350 load was in your barrel, when the identical load in at least 2 other barrels here runs about 150 fps faster, but that ~22" barrel does explain some of it. A looser chamber might account for the rest of the difference, which would also drop pressure and explain your higher SD. Just spitballing though.

 

[drglock]

Impact
Proof 1-7 Comp contour @ 26.75”
.185 freebore
115 DTACS
Alpha brass
CCI 450
H4350 @ 35.8gr
BTO 1.9825 (which would be .061 jump off original chambering)
310 rounds on the barrel.

5 shots at 501yds to true velocity on Kestrel. Trued out at 2810fps