Winchester StaBALL 6.5 in stock at Midsouth...
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....inchester-staball-6half-smokeless-powder-1-lb
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....inchester-staball-6half-smokeless-powder-1-lb
6gt
- Thread starter Dthomas3523
- Start date
Same with mine. I emailed Ken, he said they forgot and sent one out.
I’m not really buying the miss probability being related to how fast or slow you’re running. If it’s a .5 MOA gun and a .5 MOA shooter how does running 100fps faster give you more hit probability?
I’ve never been one to chase “speed” I find a good load and go with it.
In my case, it’s a 1.3 grain difference in the loads and yes the recoil is noticeable.
I’m sure there’s a reason why many of the top shooters run 6mm on the slower side.
Ok. I can buy that. Then the question is, why do many top shooters run slower speeds? I’m not saying I’m just trying to copy what they do (obviously theyre successful) I’ve always just ran on the slower, safer side.
Here’s something else to think about, copied from bird dog’s post above:
“So the question is, does the ability to sometimes be able to spot your trace offset the miss probability you incur by slowing down the round...”
Also, just from a consistency and reliability perspective I prefer a more low pressure node, as do many experienced shooters. When rifles get dusty, wet, filled with carbon, whatever you’re better off with a low-pressure load vs one on the ragged edge in ideal conditions that will blow a primer when you shoot in your first rainstorm or whatever.
I’m the same size as you. 6’4” 245. As I said, the difference in my load running 34.5 Varget at 2950 and 33.2 running 2870 is noticeable for me. It’s not the end all, be all decision factor on why I chose the slower load, just a perk. I haven’t even tried to pay attention room to how many Mil or tenth miles of reticle shift there is between the two, I’m going by feel. I have no problem shooting either one and have done so it matches with no issues. I just prefer the slower one. I think Verdugo above made some good comparisons as to why I prefer the slower load.
I’m also not a small fella and I’m not recoil sensitive but I have realized I see trace the most when shooting in the evening with my 233 AI pushing 88 ELD-m’s about 2800 fps. I think the angle of sun and cooling air has as much to do with that as the caliber. I can say there’s a noticeable recoil difference between a 6mm CM with a 105 hybrid doing 3000+ vs a 6GT going 2850
Jake Vibbert talked on his podcast about why he runs his comp guns so slow, I think 2750-2770 fps with the 110 A-Tip. A lot had to do with the consistency throughout barrel life and avoiding pressure, etc. If I understood him correctly though he also said he felt like he saw trace better because the bullet was moving slower. That actually makes sense to me, maybe it’s not recoil so much as the eye can pick it up better when it’s moving 100 fps slower.
Lots of little variables to think about and I’m not a top ten match shooter yet so there’s lots of other things for me to focus on but it’s an interesting discussion when the points spread is so tight at the top. Trust competitors to try to exploit any real or perceived advantage, lol.
Had a good load for 105 Bergers and RL16, but was able to score 2700 109's before things got crazy. Have always had best ES and SD's near max so we'll see. Called the Berger tech line and they gave me a 35.7g max load, so loaded up 5 shots of each from 35.7 to 34.1. We'll see where the node is. Any guesses?
25" Benchmark barrel, Badger action, yada, yada.
Here's the results from yesterday's testing. 1x fired GAP brass, CCI 450's 109 Berger LR Hybrids
74*, 34%RH, 2595' DA COAL 2.58"
FPS SD ES
34.1g - 2897 - 9.7 - 19
34.3g - 2910- 13.9 - 32
34.5g - 2900 - 6.0 - 14
34.7g - 2930 - 8.2 - 19
34.9g - 2929 - 4.8 - 13
35.1g - 2944 - 10.0 - 25
35.3g - 2951 - 8.1 - 21
35.5g - 2960 - 17.2 - 39
35.7g - 2971 - 8.6 -20
.
25" Benchmark barrel, Badger action, yada, yada.
Here's the results from yesterday's testing. 1x fired GAP brass, CCI 450's 109 Berger LR Hybrids
74*, 34%RH, 2595' DA COAL 2.58"
FPS SD ES
34.1g - 2897 - 9.7 - 19
34.3g - 2910- 13.9 - 32
34.5g - 2900 - 6.0 - 14
34.7g - 2930 - 8.2 - 19
34.9g - 2929 - 4.8 - 13
35.1g - 2944 - 10.0 - 25
35.3g - 2951 - 8.1 - 21
35.5g - 2960 - 17.2 - 39
35.7g - 2971 - 8.6 -20
.
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37.3g of RL16 and 105s in GAP brass got me 3004fps wtth single digit SD and ES.
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GAP has Hornady 6GT brass back in stock.
https://www.gaprecision.net/ga-store/reloading-brass/hornady-6mm-gt-brass.html
https://www.gaprecision.net/ga-store/reloading-brass/hornady-6mm-gt-brass.html
I received 300 from GAP last week and they were freshly annealed. From other places they weren’t. It sure if it’s timing...
I received 200 from GAP around month ago, it was also freshly annealed and arrived in great condition with a few extras. Customer service was also very good.
What's your purpose? Is your goal 1 hole at 1000 yards? Or are you shooting PRS/NRL/CD matches? If the latter, neck turning is a waste of time.
This is with virgin Hornady brass with nothing done to it. Just loaded and shot, no mandrel even.
The group in top right was with brass I had pulled all the bullets from on an old load, just stuffed the bullets back in without even re-doing neck tension.
As has been said, neck turning the GT is a waste, spend more time shooting and less at the bench.
The group in top right was with brass I had pulled all the bullets from on an old load, just stuffed the bullets back in without even re-doing neck tension.
As has been said, neck turning the GT is a waste, spend more time shooting and less at the bench.
I have. You can decrease your ES a bit. But for prs type stuff, your ES will already be well inside the targets we shoot.
OK after finding a load that gave good SD and ES, I measured my CBTO length and started with the shortest of the five I measured (2.0175), loaded up 5 rounds with that seating depth, and then did four more batches of 5 at; 2.0145, 2.0115, 2.0085 and 2.0055. 2.01145 was the best with minimal vertical stringing (one called flyer). So that's going to be my load.
GAP brass
CCI450
34.9g RL16
109g Berger LR Hybrid Target
2.0145" CBTO
2929fps @70*
SD 4.8
ES 13
GAP brass
CCI450
34.9g RL16
109g Berger LR Hybrid Target
2.0145" CBTO
2929fps @70*
SD 4.8
ES 13
Attachments
Glad this thread was sticky. Got a 6gt barreled action being spun now by @strait jacket armory should be done soon. Glad to find some reloading data.
Lookin to switch things up a bit... given the drought on Berger 105s and 109s has anyone had luck with H4350 and Barnes match burner 112s?
112 and H4350 combo is GTG. Start around 34grn and but your high node will be around 35-35.5.
Thanks... what speed do you get at 35? My 105s w/ 36.5 is 2900. That’s got to be around 2800?
Yes, should be in the 2800. I’m still running the OG Alpha brass so I’m not running it hard. Might be able to hit 2900 with Hornady or OCW Alpha.
Berger 109 Hybrid
37.3 H4350
0.025 jump
CCI 450
Alpha OCD Brass
2932 fps from Bartlein 26" bbl 1:7" Twist - Barrel only has 120 rounds through it.
37.3 H4350
0.025 jump
CCI 450
Alpha OCD Brass
2932 fps from Bartlein 26" bbl 1:7" Twist - Barrel only has 120 rounds through it.
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Wanted to work a load up for The Guardian.
Used the ATS Tuner behind a APA Little Bastard Gen3
34.65 gr Varget
Berger 109 LRHT
Alpha OCD
CCI 450
0.020 jump
2924 fps at 54*F
Dots are 3/4" Avery Dots
This is 60 total rounds (of course the LabRadar skipped 6 of them...)
ATS Tuner (12 was starting point - went all the way around - settled between 20-22)
10 round groups
Used the ATS Tuner behind a APA Little Bastard Gen3
34.65 gr Varget
Berger 109 LRHT
Alpha OCD
CCI 450
0.020 jump
2924 fps at 54*F
Dots are 3/4" Avery Dots
This is 60 total rounds (of course the LabRadar skipped 6 of them...)
ATS Tuner (12 was starting point - went all the way around - settled between 20-22)
10 round groups
Picked up a used hawk hill 7.5 twist and multiple fired brass this was my starting load...
109 berger
0.050” jump
GAP brass
CCI 400
34gr Varget
5 shot group with a called flyer
I think I’m done
seems a touch slow compared to similar recipes could just be CCI 400 vs 450?
this is my first 6mm and ease of load development alone is worth the switch
109 berger
0.050” jump
GAP brass
CCI 400
34gr Varget
5 shot group with a called flyer
I think I’m done
seems a touch slow compared to similar recipes could just be CCI 400 vs 450?
this is my first 6mm and ease of load development alone is worth the switch
Attachments
IMHO your speed is more than fine, and i wouldn't worry about the primers . I would take that any time , also remember the hotter the faster your barrel finishes.Picked up a used hawk hill 7.5 twist and multiple fired brass this was my starting load...
109 berger
0.050” jump
GAP brass
CCI 400
34gr Varget
5 shot group with a called flyer
I think I’m done
seems a touch slow compared to similar recipes could just be CCI 400 vs 450?
this is my first 6mm and ease of load development alone is worth the switch
Ya I’m not worried about speed at all. Thought about maybe trying to find next lower node even. For my budget I’d really like to extend barrel life as much as possible
if i am not mistaken , I think I have read that the pros have even lowered their speeds to like the 2800 fps, but PLEASE don't quote me on this. I might be wrong.
I would have this issue as well, what i did is pay close attention how I prep my brass, to the T. I also lube inside the neck,
you think they would rather have both or just one, and if one which one would it be?
It is not.
Take two brand new cases that grip a pin gauge the same. Then lube the inside of one and not the other. You’ll see a huge difference in the seating force if you use a press with a gauge.
Seating force/pressure gauges measure the force needed. But the reason for the force needed isn’t a single thing.
well this is the way I press 100% of the time , that is why I said I lube the inside
So far, no one has been able to provide long term data that shows friction has any negative effect when it’s the cause for high seating pressure.
However, I try to alleviate it as I can see the galling on the bullet jacket when I pull a hard seated bullet. Is that enough to mess with the flight/bc? I don’t know, but it’s an easy thing to avoid, so I do it.
GAP has 4-5 sets of Redding GT dies in stock and not up on their website yet. They have been waiting for a long time on these.
J
J
Shooting a match this weekend and just jot the barrel done last week. Did not have time for a break in and full load work up so just tool a SWAG and ended up good enough for now.
26" Krieger MTU 1/7
new Hornady brass
WSR primers
Berger 105 VLD target .010" off
34g Varget
.002" neck tension
2963fps avg, sd12
shot right at .4 moa
Also tried 112 Barnes match burners .030" off over 33.5g Varget. Was a little slow and only got .75 moa. Will revisit the Match Burners when I have some spare time to do some load development.
26" Krieger MTU 1/7
new Hornady brass
WSR primers
Berger 105 VLD target .010" off
34g Varget
.002" neck tension
2963fps avg, sd12
shot right at .4 moa
Also tried 112 Barnes match burners .030" off over 33.5g Varget. Was a little slow and only got .75 moa. Will revisit the Match Burners when I have some spare time to do some load development.
150 rounds down the barrel today, barrel is still speeding up. Did a seating depth test with some pretty decent results.
26” 1-7.5 - .120 FB - Bartlein Impact/Stuteville.
New Hornady Brass
Hornady 110 gr. A-Tip
35.54 gr. RL-16
Fed - 205M
.242 mandrel
.0365 - OTL
1.9360 - BTO
2.5990 - COAL
2777.8 - Velocity
14 - ES
5.3 - SD
Target is 100 yards -
43 Degrees
26” 1-7.5 - .120 FB - Bartlein Impact/Stuteville.
New Hornady Brass
Hornady 110 gr. A-Tip
35.54 gr. RL-16
Fed - 205M
.242 mandrel
.0365 - OTL
1.9360 - BTO
2.5990 - COAL
2777.8 - Velocity
14 - ES
5.3 - SD
Target is 100 yards -
43 Degrees
Attachments
These are my target designs. Used my Bluebeam software to develop them.
