6gt

[Birddog6424]

So I scrubbed and went out to check the load. Still shot like hell.

So back to the drawing board. I ran a shot string from 34.1 to 36.1 in .2 increments this morning of the usual charge weights, and the results were identical to the previous two shot strings of the same charge weights. No matter how I slice it the nodes are right there at 2850'ish and 2920fps. Three for three is pretty conclusive.

Number 10 and 11 is 35.7 and 35.9grs. I've been loading 35.8.



Number 3, 4, and 5 is 34.5, 34.7, and 34.9 all within 12fps of each other.



So I'm on the node. I'm going to rule out that the load isn't right and figure reloading practices are good.

At the top of the list for my suspicions is an issue with this barrel. Its giving me inconsistent pressures.. I hope that isn't the case and I stumble on something I havent thought of yet. But ideas are getting thin on the ground.

 

[NiteQwill]

Your SD is no bueno. Do you have a bore scope?

 

[mr.quick]

How much pressure are you putting on to seat your bullets ?

 

[mr.quick]

What do you do for case prep?

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

So I scrubbed and went out to check the load. Still shot like hell.

So back to the drawing board. I ran a shot string this morning of the usual charge weights, and the results were identical to the previous two. No matter how I slice it the nodes are right there at 2850'ish and 2920fps. Three for three is pretty conclusive.

This is 35.7 and 35.9grs. I've been loading 35.8.



This is 34.5, 34.7, and 34.9 all within 12fps of each other.



So I'm on the node. I'm going to rule out that the load isn't right and figure reloading practices are good.

At the top of the list for my suspicions is an issue with this barrel. Its giving me inconsistent pressures.. I hope that isn't the case and I stumble on something I havent thought of yet. But ideas are getting thin on the ground.

Your spread is 123 fps. That is not a node.

Time to start over.

 

[Birddog6424]

Your SD is no bueno. Do you have a bore scope?

Your spread is 123 fps. That is not a node.

Time to start over.

This is a shot string fellas, ran over a Magnetospeed V3. The SD by that very nature will be crap. This is 34.1grs to 36.1grs in .2 increments looking for accuracy nodes.

As pictured, there is a node at 2850'ish and a clear node at 2920fps. This is the third time I've ran this shot string, and the nodes are in the same place every time.

 

[Birddog6424]

How much pressure are you putting on to seat your bullets ?

What do you do for case prep?

I dont know the exact amount of seating pressure. It doesn't "feel" any different. I run a Sinclair mandrel through the neck before seating. Neck tension is always dead nuts at .002", the neck expands .003" while firing, and I can slide a bullet into the case neck of a fired piece of brass. The seating stem leaves no marks on the bullet.

I'm not a maniacal case prepper. Never have been and have never needed to be. I tumble for two hours after every firing, anneal every third. This is all once fired brass.

This is my 7th year of shooting PRS. Ive been through i dont know how many barrels across a handful of calibers. I've never seen this before. But you dont know what you dont know. Maybe someone will read this and have gone through the same issue.

 

[Mxridr]

Anyone getting ejector swipe on new hornady brass? Shooting dtacs at 2750. 35.2 h4350
60 rounds on new barrel. I know hornady is soft. Is this common?

 

[Mxridr]

Pics

 

[Birddog6424]

Anyone getting ejector swipe on new hornady brass? Shooting dtacs at 2750. 35.2 h4350
60 rounds on new barrel. I know hornady is soft. Is this common?

Yes, its common.

 

[4RingShooter]

I'm currently running the 108 bergers but the load is the same for the 109s or the 110 atips. Just depends on barrel and lot of powder at times but both of my current GT barrels have been very consistent and accurate, similar to my dashers previously. I found best speeds for these bullets in the 2850-2890 range, usually 32.2-32.8 gr of varget for me with lots of jump. The load in my last barrel pretty much stayed the same for 2000 rounds.

I've also had a lot better luck with the Alpha OCD brass. Hornady brass is gtg when new but lost consistency for me over a number of firings.

 

[mr.quick]

I dont know the exact amount of seating pressure. It doesn't "feel" any different. I run a Sinclair mandrel through the neck before seating. Neck tension is always dead nuts at .002", the neck expands .003" while firing, and I can slide a bullet into the case neck of a fired piece of brass. The seating stem leaves no marks on the bullet.

I'm not a maniacal case prepper. Never have been and have never needed to be. I tumble for two hours after every firing, anneal every third. This is all once fired brass.

This is my 7th year of shooting PRS. Ive been through i dont know how many barrels across a handful of calibers. I've never seen this before. But you dont know what you dont know. Maybe someone will read this and have gone through the same issue.

I don’t have a lot of time shooting ,but what I do know ,in my case . Is that when I don’t brass prep , I get different seating pressures, some higher than others ,and those higher pressured ones . Shoot faster then the lower pressure ones . Now that is my case, I hope someone with more knowledge shines in with this . As I am learning as well .

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I don’t have a lot of time shooting ,but what I do know ,in my case . Is that when I don’t brass prep , I get different seating pressures, some higher than others ,and those higher pressured ones . Shoot faster then the lower pressure ones . Now that is my case, I hope someone with more knowledge shines in with this . As I am learning as well .

This is likely due to the amount of neck tension on the bullet.

More neck tension on your brass requires more energy to get the bullet moving, resulting in higher pressures.

 

[mr.quick]

This is likely due to the amount of neck tension on the bullet.

More neck tension on your brass requires more energy to get the bullet moving, resulting in higher pressures.

Thanks for clearing it up .

 

[Birddog6424]

Well I finally got down to the issue with my 6GT. It was a headscratcher. I had clear nodes at 35.8grs @ 2920fps and 34.7grs @ 2850fps. But it wouldn't stay on them. The more I shot the more spread out the groups and velocity performance would become. It simply wouldn't perform with any consistency.

While manipulating one variable at a time I swapped out the Berger 109gr LRHT for a 115gr DTAC, and Eureka. A load that shoots!

I put 26 rounds across the chrono while adjusting my tuner. Ended up with a 5.1 SD and single hole shooter at 100. I took my remaining 4 rounds out to 1000 and in the shifting breeze, shot a 4 shot group with less than 3" of vertical spread.

No idea why the Bergers won't shoot. Ive been tinkering with them for hundreds of rounds now, adjusting parts of my load, pouring over the rifle, my brass, my powder scale, anything and everything trying to run the inconsistent performance to ground. It's the bullet. My barrel just flat dislikes it.

This is 4 shots at 1000 yards, 115gr DTACS, 34.6grs Long Rifle at 2841fps.

 

[HonkyTonk86]

Interested in selling rest of your 109s?

 

[NiteQwill]

Same. I'll buy your 109s

 

[HonkyTonk86]

@Birddog6424 I probably missed it but what’s the specs on your barrel? Freebore?

 

[MilSpecOkie]

Also, is it a .236” or .237” bore? HH offers both.

 

[Juggerxxx]

Well I finally got down to the issue with my 6GT. It was a headscratcher. I had clear nodes at 35.8grs @ 2920fps and 34.7grs @ 2850fps. But it wouldn't stay on them. The more I shot the more spread out the groups and velocity performance would become. It simply wouldn't perform with any consistency.

While manipulating one variable at a time I swapped out the Berger 109gr LRHT for a 115gr DTAC, and Eureka. A load that shoots!

I put 26 rounds across the chrono while adjusting my tuner. Ended up with a 5.1 SD and single hole shooter at 100. I took my remaining 4 rounds out to 1000 and in the shifting breeze, shot a 4 shot group with less than 3" of vertical spread.

No idea why the Bergers won't shoot. Ive been tinkering with them for hundreds of rounds now, adjusting parts of my load, pouring over the rifle, my brass, my powder scale, anything and everything trying to run the inconsistent performance to ground. It's the bullet. My barrel just flat dislikes it.

This is 4 shots at 1000 yards, 115gr DTACS, 34.6grs Long Rifle at 2841fps.

What is the batch or lot number on the 109s that won’t shoot?

 

[Birddog6424]

@Birddog6424 I probably missed it but what’s the specs on your barrel? Freebore?

It's a 26" War Heavy profile from Hawk Hill, 7.5" twist. Freebore is .120"

Also, is it a .236” or .237” bore? HH offers both.

This is the .237" bore.

Like I said, why it won't shoot is a head scratcher. If I scrubbed the Bergers shot great. As soon as the barrel got dirty they would go to hell. As in <50 rounds. Can't even get through a match with them.

Shooting a Regional PRS Qualifier match today. Sitting here typing this up before heading out to check zero. Weatherman is calling for 15 to 25mph winds today. Should be a little sporty..

I'll check my DTAC load after the match and see how its held up.

 

[mr.quick]

It's a 26" War Heavy profile from Hawk Hill, 7.5" twist. Freebore is .120"



This is the .237" bore.

Like I said, why it won't shoot is a head scratcher. If I scrubbed the Bergers shot great. As soon as the barrel got dirty they would go to hell. As in <50 rounds. Can't even get through a match with them.

Shooting a Regional PRS Qualifier match today. Sitting here typing this up before heading out to check zero. Weatherman is calling for 15 to 25mph winds today. Should be a little sporty..

I'll check my DTAC load after the match and see how its held up.

let us know how you did , and how your barrel preformed . GOOD LUCK

 

[MilSpecOkie]

236 can be a problem with Bergers(and a lot of bullets) ask me how I know. I'm about ready to use this Krieger barrel as a tomato stake and go back to 65cr.

khuber84

I know Erik Cortina uses a a .236” bore Brux barrel and Berger bullets so that combination will work. But maybe the Krieger is a little tighter yet? Instead of trashing the barrel maybe strip it to bare metal and run some fire lap bullets through it to see if it might loosen it up a tad and make it usable for you?

 

[MilSpecOkie]

Like I said, why it won't shoot is a head scratcher. If I scrubbed the Bergers shot great. As soon as the barrel got dirty they would go to hell. As in <50 rounds. Can't even get through a match with it.

Maybe that barrel like a dirty bore? What happens if you develop the load when it’s got a fouled bore? Say you have 50-75 rounds down the barrel and then start your load development and testing?

 

[Birddog6424]

Well the match was a fifth of cheap tequila and an asswhippin'

18 to 29mph winds all day in the lovely Great Basin desert region of southwest Idaho. By the third stage, actions were locking up from the dirt and magazines stopped feeding. It was a wonderful....... learning experience...

The rifle was great though. The MD pulled in the long range steel when the weather man said we had a tsunami inbound,, so 908 was the longest shot. I got it both shots with a 3.6 mil wind hold (24mph wind). On the last stage I impacted a 2.5" squirrel at 295 yards with both shots,, and 4" gopher at 395 yards using a 21mph wind hold. So sub moa and moa targets in a ridiculous wind,, I'll take that. The 5 round chrono after the match showed a 3.3 SD. So I think I'm finally moving forward with the rifle.

Just gotta figure out how to make those magazines run in a dustbowl...

And now I need to find some fargin' DTACs...

 

[mr.quick]

freaking awesome it went well , and thanks for the update

 

[Birddog6424]

Milspec,
I stripped to bare metal with ioso. Still phuked off. I could try some Tubbs and see if it helps I guess. I appreciate the input.

It's super frustrating to invest in top shelf equipment and have it shoot like hell.

I was ready to chuck my rifle out of my truck on my trip home from the range last week.

 

[MilSpecOkie]

Especially when 400 rounds of 1/4 moa just all a sudden gets totally out of whack! I've thrown everything at it minus the fire lapping.

Were the first 400 the same lot of Berger bullets? If so then there must be something else that changed no?

 

[Hutch_WV]

Well the match was a fifth of cheap tequila and an asswhippin'

18 to 29mph winds all day in the lovely Great Basin desert region of southwest Idaho. By the third stage, actions were locking up from the dirt and magazines stopped feeding. It was a wonderful....... learning experience...

The rifle was great though. The MD pulled in the long range steel when the weather man said we had a tsunami inbound,, so 908 was the longest shot. I got it both shots with a 3.6 mil wind hold (24mph wind). On the last stage I impacted a 2.5" squirrel at 295 yards with both shots,, and 4" gopher at 395 yards using a 21mph wind hold. So sub moa and moa targets in a ridiculous wind,, I'll take that. The 5 round chrono after the match showed a 3.3 SD. So I think I'm finally moving forward with the rifle.

Just gotta figure out how to make those magazines run in a dustbowl...

And now I need to find some fargin' DTACs...

Awesome. So what load and CTBO are ya using?

 

[Birddog6424]

I'm not sure on my overall length, I'll take a look at it and post it.

My load is 34.6grs Shooters World Long Rifle, a 115gr DTAC, CCI 450 primer in Hornady brass. I'm not an expensive brass kinda guy, I lose it too fast. And Hornady has served well across multiple calibers. So I like it.

Jumping .030" and getting 5 SD or less at 2841fps.

 

[mr.quick]

I'm not sure on my overall length, I'll take a look at it and post it.

My load is 34.6grs Shooters World Long Rifle, a 115gr DTAC, CCI 450 primer in Hornady brass. I'm not an expensive brass kinda guy, I lose it too fast. And Hornady has served well across multiple calibers. So I like it.

Jumping .030" and getting 5 SD or less at 2841fps.

that is what i am shooting for on the sd and speed. PERFECT

 

[Birddog6424]

that is what i am shooting for on the sd and speed. PERFECT

I think those are really good numbers.

LOTS of potential to be a really easy load that shoots for 2000 rounds without having to tinker with it.

 

[Mxridr]

What freebore do you run with DTAC? .170?

 

[MilSpecOkie]

What freebore do you run with DTAC? .170?

My barrel is coming from Straight Jacket Armory and they said 120 will work fine with DTACs. I don’t think they would say that if it didn’t, they have the 170 FB reamer as well.

 

[Mxridr]

Dtacs sit deep in case with .120

 

[MilSpecOkie]

Well that is a bummer. I always try have some DTACs on hand as I’ve had great results with them. I’ll plan on using 105 Hybrids and 109 LRHT with this news.

 

[Mxridr]

Getting pressure in my rifle

 

[Birddog6424]

Sitting below the case neck juncture isn't a sin. Tons of loads run great that way. I ran a .050 freebore on my 22BR with 88gr ELDMs that was way deep in the neck. It hammered at 28.5grs of Varget for over 2500 rounds.

Ideally, I think .140 to .150 is the best starting point for DTACs. At .030" jump, .170" is more than I needed to get the boattail up to the neck juncture. I own a .243 throater from Manson, but if I didnt want to go that route, I would take the .120 freebore reamer and start shooting. Getting that boattail out of the case helps eliminate "potential" inconsistency in your load. Its not a guarantee to great accuracy anymore than seating deeper is always a problem.

 

[Mrbigballs85]

I could not get any good results from 109s til i put them out 60-80 thousandths. As soon as I did my Sd/Es went way down and group size as well. How far out were you?

 

[Birddog6424]

I could not get any good results from 109s til i put them out 60-80 thousandths. As soon as I did my Sd/Es went way down and group size as well. How far out were you?

I started at .050. I was at .065 with throat wear after giving up on them.

They would shoot 4.something SD and .250" on a clean barrel. But slowly go to hell as the barrel got dirty.

@MilSpecOkie had a great suggestion of trying to load develop with them on an already filthy barrel. Which may have showed me the node, for whatever reason, wasn't in the same place on a dirty barrel. But I had already moved on to DTACs by then.

No regrets. The 109 LRHT is a great bullet, but I've run DTACs for years through my 6 Creedmoor, and always had great results.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I could not get any good results from 109s til i put them out 60-80 thousandths. As soon as I did my Sd/Es went way down and group size as well. How far out were you?

Yup. I start right off the bat at 60 off and work out from there. Have found the best groups for me personally around 80-100 off.

 

[DairyDictator]

Yup. I start right off the bat at 60 off and work out from there. Have found the best groups for me personally around 80-100 off.

Seems to be right in line with SAC's findings with the 105

 

[BuLLet]

I'm going to start to load up some 6GT and most of the loads posted are using magnum primers which I don't have. I do have plenty of small rifle, are the magnums really needed? Anyone have data for small rifle primers? I may have some Winchester magnums laying around I'll have to hunt a little harder. Were there ignition problems with small?

 

[Birddog6424]

Awesome. So what load and CTBO are ya using?

My BTO is 1.980" jumping .030" to the lands at 2.010.

My COAL is 2.535"

 

[Birddog6424]

I'm going to start to load up some 6GT and most of the loads posted are using magnum primers which I don't have. I do have plenty of small rifle, are the magnums really needed? Anyone have data for small rifle primers? I may have some Winchester magnums laying around I'll have to hunt a little harder. Were there ignition problems with small?

You'll be fine with regular SR primers. In reality, I'm running the CCI 450s but know for a fact I don't need them. I've tinkered with 205M and regular CCI 400s, there's really no difference.

I suppose an argument could be made for an H4350 load at 37'ish grains as needing a little more pop. But I'm not even convinced of that.

Seems like David Tubbs did some testing a long while back showing Lapua SR brass in 6mm and 6.5-47/Creedmoor was less effective than the LR primer brass. Once up and over 40 grains or into the mid 40's, he showed that SR primers were less effective than LR.

For these powder charges, its my humble opinion that any quality SR primer will do.

 

[Juggerxxx]

You will be absolutely fine using small rifle non-magnum primers. Many people have great success doing so and I am one of them. 2300 rounds down a barrel with nothing but cci400 and I have shot matches in 20 degree temps without issue. Very accurate and nice and low SDs.

 

[PatrickChewing]

Altus has Alpha brass in stock

Alpha Munitions 6GT SRP Brass (OCD)

Alpha Munitions 6 Dasher brass has been used some of the best shooters in both the PRS & NRL to place amongst the top of the leaderboards. At Alpha Munitions

www.altusshooting.com

 

[mr.quick]

Just ordered 200 of them thanks

 

[MilSpecOkie]

@khuber84

 

[BuLLet]

GAP has Alpha in stock as well....

At least they did when I ordered yesterday.