Bad Throat/Barrel?
- Thread starter Boss334OP
- Start date
Nope, but you would have to be blind or ignorant not to see a problem. Or are you another savage guy so your used to shitty chamber work
I just got finished helping some of the best in the game set up their new half million dollar CNC machine and chambered their first two barrels for them. They told me that they were the best looking chambers they’ve ever seen. I guess that means those old burnt out test barrels will shoot record groups again.
The only time you hear the argument, it's fine shoot it is when retards refer to guns. If a customer hired a shop to build 1000 widgets and inside the bore of those widgets it looked like OP picture do you think they should accept that and use those parts for whatever they were intended for? No they would be rejected, rightfully so but OP has no right to even think he can have the same luxurys afforded to him
Never said otherwise.
If the customer has a reasonable belief that something is off, they have a right to seek a remedy with the company. Sometimes that belief can be mistaken and the company has every right to educate the customer or reject a return if they believe they've done their due diligence with respect to quality or if they believe that a customer is being patently unreasonable.
In a case such as this, the company will probably want good quality pictures of the chamber and will probably want to prevent even the merest appearance that something slipped through the cracks.
Another quick question.........does the manufacturer of said barrel offer a "chamber runout" guarantee or just an accuracy guarantee (if even this). If there is no chamber runout guarantee.......then I feel like it must be shot to be proven faulty???
Another perspective..........some gunsmiths who cater towards the budget-minded account for this "sub-perfect" quality into their prices/services. If this is indeed the case here........we may all be bitching about not receiving a ferrari at a mazda price.
I've had a few instances of the aforementioned "off-center" freebores and I have chosen to literally eat the price of the barrel (a few Proof Carbons.....ouch) to maintain the quality/reputation my customers expect and pay for. Having said that, I am not the cheapest guy around either.......
Again, probably useless info.......thanks for listening/reading
Ern
Another perspective..........some gunsmiths who cater towards the budget-minded account for this "sub-perfect" quality into their prices/services. If this is indeed the case here........we may all be bitching about not receiving a ferrari at a mazda price.
I've had a few instances of the aforementioned "off-center" freebores and I have chosen to literally eat the price of the barrel (a few Proof Carbons.....ouch) to maintain the quality/reputation my customers expect and pay for. Having said that, I am not the cheapest guy around either.......
Again, probably useless info.......thanks for listening/reading
Ern
I say the "widgets" would be accepted if the print did not specify a concentricity, cylindricity, or surface finish tolerance/callout in the bore area.
That's why there is such a price difference in a drilled hole, bored hole, and honed holed in a given part.
Engineering/Designing/Manufacturing - 101
Ern
That's why there is such a price difference in a drilled hole, bored hole, and honed holed in a given part.
Engineering/Designing/Manufacturing - 101
Ern
I was implying there was a tolerance- certain surface finish. When I pay a gunsmith I talk these things over before they get my money
Straight jacket gaureentees there shit, they will either fix it, replace it or give you your money back.
That's not what he asked
Do you even know the difference between runout and concentricity without looking it up?
Yes that is what he asked. I spoke to the guy on the phone and he personally gaureenteed it would be spot on
I'll have to check with my metrology department and get them to make sure my measuring/inspection tools are "spot on"........haha. Just a good old fashion kick in the nuts for fun........don't take it personal.
That's a good idea though.........I can offer a "spot on" guarantee with anything and any size/shape/condition.
A little story to lighten the mood, I worked with a guy years ago who taught me a bit about TIG welding airframe structures. He got a chuckle when I sharpied my usual settings on the welder as "TITS"........
Ern
That's a good idea though.........I can offer a "spot on" guarantee with anything and any size/shape/condition.
A little story to lighten the mood, I worked with a guy years ago who taught me a bit about TIG welding airframe structures. He got a chuckle when I sharpied my usual settings on the welder as "TITS"........
Ern
I spoke to him back one June. I know he indicates runout down to half a thou, the short to the point summary of the convo is...... spot on. If some body wants specs he will be glad to take your phone call and fill you in
I think (I could be wrong) but I've heard .0002" chamber runout touted quite a bit in the precision rifle industry over the years. Although most people quoting that are using .0005" indicators with long needles........so nowhere near accurate enough to claim that.
I throw a long body .0001" indicator with shortest needle possible in every barrel I do.......not so much getting a true measurement.......just looking for a heartbeat. Then I always do a factory round drop test (like I mentioned before). Not claiming this is best practices.......just my way of doing it.
Jmkjr87 - No call needed, I'm good. FYI - most match spec reamers have .0005" (half thou) TOTAL for freebore diameter over groove diameter. So if that is the resolution (.0005") anyone is measuring to.........you may be outside the range of SPOT ON.
Thanks for offering though. So long as you are happy and straight jacket is making money to keep American employees paid and the gun industry going........that's all that matters to me.
Cheers.
Ern
Thanks for offering though. So long as you are happy and straight jacket is making money to keep American employees paid and the gun industry going........that's all that matters to me.
Cheers.
Ern
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I said somebody wants specs, I didn't say u needed them. They were good to me and he answered every question that I had which was many, and sent me a great barrel. I will be having him chamber my barrels from now on
With these Idiot comments.
Until you measure the internal diameter where it touches at the ogive.
All of you who say his bore is Shit you are looking at the chamber you are not looking at the throat and where the bullets ogive contacts.
Pretty is as Pretty does IE stupid is as Stupid does
Until you measure the internal diameter where it touches at the ogive.
All of you who say his bore is Shit you are looking at the chamber you are not looking at the throat and where the bullets ogive contacts.
Pretty is as Pretty does IE stupid is as Stupid does
Hi Ern - let me ask you please, when you talk about commonly found runout being less than a thou, would that be visible like what the OP has and showed?
I suspect what he has is a good bit further afield than what you are speaking of but I may very well be wrong as I have zero machining experience.
Cheers
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Update: Company is taking the barrel back.
What a shit show in here... Posted this hoping to be educated on whether this obviously visible variance is acceptable or not. Clearly if I had the tools to take actual measurements of the freebore/throat, I would not be asking.
Apparently people can't be objective about this. FFS
What a shit show in here... Posted this hoping to be educated on whether this obviously visible variance is acceptable or not. Clearly if I had the tools to take actual measurements of the freebore/throat, I would not be asking.
Apparently people can't be objective about this. FFS
If you know what you are looking for, you can typically pick up an off-center freebore with the naked eye (within reason). As a quick check I look through the clean (unfired) barrel and make sure the little ledge at the end of the freebore is visible all the way around and there are no traces of rifling left in the freebore area. If there are traces of rifling (not bad, just a large groove diameter barrel) make sure they are even all the way around.
Same goes for a borescope........evenness is key. Also, I've seen freebores that are cleanly cut all the way around still have enough "lumpiness" to stick bullets and cause issues. Typically, you can spot this by looking at the ream termination in the groove......rounded is bad.......straight is good.
Please keep in mind these are very miniscule characteristics that rely heavily on the shape/size perfection of the barrel interior.
I still feel that a shit ton of shops big and small are unaware of this issue or don't know how to avoid it or check for it. Hell, I was unaware for a long time myself even while working for a top shelf builder for almost a decade. I recently saw a rifle from that same builder with a severe case of this.......they blamed it on a "bad reamer"......go figure. At least they took it back and made it right, the rifle owner is happy now.
It never ceases to amaze me that barrelmakers can drill/ream/rifle a hole through a solid bar 30"+ long and machine monkeys like me can install them and get the accuracy we do.........it's not like we are spending Uncle Sam F22 money to get it done either.
God Bless America
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Clearly you weren’t asking the right questions if, “spot on” and “half a thou” were acceptable answers to you.
I told them to use a hand drill, a pointy rock, virgins blood, and some 400 grit sandpaper. FFS
Leave me the out of your bullshit. Stop claiming I asked for a nonconcentric throat. Mental gymnastics. This is standard order shit. Is it impossible for you to be rational about this?
He's not going to get it and there is no point trying.
I see it this way......
Cheap borescopes are going to be the thorn in the side of some shops........while other shops are going to continue on as normal.
Glad the OP got this resolved with his gunsmith. Cheers.
Ern
Cheap borescopes are going to be the thorn in the side of some shops........while other shops are going to continue on as normal.
Glad the OP got this resolved with his gunsmith. Cheers.
Ern
Thank you. This is what I was looking for.
Rifling is visible running through the entire freebore on one side and is NOT even all the way around.
Jesus christ u retard. I'm not going to post a conversation I had 6 months ago word for word. I'm saying spot on, he never said spot on. For fuck sakes, you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Obviously there's a issue with that chamber cuz the Smith is taking it back
I thought you were fucking off two pages ago, and yet you’re still here, arguing, for the sake of arguing.
