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For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners
- Thread starter Frank Green
- Start date
Wonder if the brown is carbon?
VII. WIPE-OUT ACCELERATORâ„¢ has color indicators show the presence of metal fouling, powder fouling and carbon. (Metal fouling is navy blue, Powder fouling is grey or black, Carbon is tan or brown.)
VII. WIPE-OUT ACCELERATORâ„¢ has color indicators show the presence of metal fouling, powder fouling and carbon. (Metal fouling is navy blue, Powder fouling is grey or black, Carbon is tan or brown.)
My thought is this..... it's coming back to mixing cleaners and how they react to one another and how they will react with the primer fouling, powder fouling and the metal fouling from the jacket/solid bullet material.
Then you throw in conditions of where the person is at, how long the cleaner sits in the bore etc...
I'd say no it's not across the board. Why? Your back to bullet material etc... affects fouling.
Velocity (pressure and heat) also affect fouling.
The solid bullets tend to foul more. So guys shooting ELR with a 416 Barrett etc... I don't see you going 50 rounds between cleanings. I say less on the round count. You need to keep up with the cleaning.
I don't necessarily agree. I can show you cut aways of barrels that where properly cleaned....and the powder fouling is baked/burnt in there.
Here is a accuracy test barrel I got back from Sierra. 308win. Quite shooting 1/2moa, 10 shot groups at 14,560 rounds. Look how black that first 1.5" of the barrel is in front of the chamber. That fouling is backed on.
They cleaned that barrel on average after every 50 rounds fired. Sometimes it did go 150 rounds in between cleanings. It's a 8 twist barrel. The first 5k rounds where all 175SMK and then the next 5k rounds was the 220gr bullet. Then it was a mix of those bullets after that if I recall correctly.
When powder fouling bakes on like that can it affect barrel life?
Speaking of powder, do you happen to know if N570 degrades barrel life faster than other powders?
I know Wipe Out Accelerator has taken some abuse here so I finally took a look at the back of the bottle and it says to push a wet patch and then add the foam or Patch Out. That is how I have always used it without issue. Just figured people who never saw it might want to see the directions.
I always figured that was baked on carbon, not powder fouling.
I learn something new every day.
I have a buddy's proof at the house and it looks like that too
Wait. According to a guy named Orkan, i thought I was supposed to use a drill powered brush to clean my rifles bore
I don't think the powder fouling baking on necessarily affects barrel life but it can cause accuracy issues.
Any of the double base powders burn the barrel faster. Which if I'm not mistaken all of the 500 series VV powders are double based. That's why if at all possible I don't use double base powders. They burn at a higher flame temp normally. Yes you get more velocity out of them but that is the trade off. Shorter barrel life.
Sorry cannot put a number on how much it affects barrel life but it does affect it.
I won't name the cartridge but this is a good example....
The cartridge is so hard on barrels.... that if they don't clean the barrels during ammo/accuracy testing after every 20 rounds fired.... they cannot even hold 1moa. So after every 20 rounds fired they have to stop and clean the barrels and from they've seen....it's regardless of who made the barrel but ours have held up the best.
20 rounds.... that bites!
I think I'm just going to stay away from the Accelerator product completely.
Butyl Cellosolve (CAS #111-76-2 also known as Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol, Butyl Glycol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether) is a toxic agent used in many industrial and domestic cleaners – many of which claim to be non-hazardous. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs causing a variety of health issues depending on the level of exposure.
Health Effects: Eye, nose, throat and skin irritation; cough; Blood disorders, central nervous system depression, dizziness, drowsiness, light-headedness, unconsciousness; headache, vomiting; pulmonary edema; eye redness, pain, blurred vision; liver and kidney damage; Abdominal pain, diarrhoea; nausea. It may also damage a developing foetus.
Affected organs: Eyes, skin, respiratory system, CNS, hematopoietic system, blood, kidneys, liver, lymphoid system, reproductive system.
Not sure how non-bias this site is but it's scary.
www.envirofluid.com
Butyl Cellosolve (CAS #111-76-2 also known as Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol, Butyl Glycol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether) is a toxic agent used in many industrial and domestic cleaners – many of which claim to be non-hazardous. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs causing a variety of health issues depending on the level of exposure.
Health Effects: Eye, nose, throat and skin irritation; cough; Blood disorders, central nervous system depression, dizziness, drowsiness, light-headedness, unconsciousness; headache, vomiting; pulmonary edema; eye redness, pain, blurred vision; liver and kidney damage; Abdominal pain, diarrhoea; nausea. It may also damage a developing foetus.
Affected organs: Eyes, skin, respiratory system, CNS, hematopoietic system, blood, kidneys, liver, lymphoid system, reproductive system.
Not sure how non-bias this site is but it's scary.
The Dangers of Butyl Cellosolve
Butyl Cellosolve (CAS #111-76-2 also known as Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether) is a toxic agent used in many industrial and domestic cleaners - many of which claim to be non-hazardous. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs causing a variety of health...
www.envirofluid.com
I think I'm just going to stay away from the Accelerator product completely.
Butyl Cellosolve (CAS #111-76-2 also known as Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol, Butyl Glycol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether) is a toxic agent used in many industrial and domestic cleaners – many of which claim to be non-hazardous. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs causing a variety of health issues depending on the level of exposure.
Health Effects: Eye, nose, throat and skin irritation; cough; Blood disorders, central nervous system depression, dizziness, drowsiness, light-headedness, unconsciousness; headache, vomiting; pulmonary edema; eye redness, pain, blurred vision; liver and kidney damage; Abdominal pain, diarrhoea; nausea. It may also damage a developing foetus.
Affected organs: Eyes, skin, respiratory system, CNS, hematopoietic system, blood, kidneys, liver, lymphoid system, reproductive system.
Not sure how non-bias this site is but it's scary.
The Dangers of Butyl Cellosolve
Butyl Cellosolve (CAS #111-76-2 also known as Butyl Cellusolve, Butoxyethanol and Ethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether) is a toxic agent used in many industrial and domestic cleaners - many of which claim to be non-hazardous. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs causing a variety of health...
Better not look into what a rifle bullet will do to you or you will sell your rifles. LOL
Uh Mike, maybe because the carbon in carbon steel isn’t free carbon…that is, it’s not elemental carbon.
Well, it should be free. We should all be free.
I say we start a movement to free all carbons and stop the insanity...
I say we start a movement to free all carbons and stop the insanity...
Brand new barrel, never fired... largest of many holes in the barrel steel. Getting an increasingly higher number of bad barrels from manufacturers, everyone is behind in production, hand lapping has less time spent, dull cutting tools, etc.
I use Iosso "sparingly" for years, no problem, but nowadays, let the scrubbing bubbles do all the work..I do not like to clean barrels, and quit "breaking them in". No problem getting barrel blanks to rechamber a rifle...all I want is quality rifled blank in good steel,...works for me.
I repurposed a factory 700 Police 26" 308 barrel for 30 RAR that had heavy firecracking from 8000 rds and still accurate. After profiling, chambering, barrel extension installed, etc..there was still a bit of decent firecracking for a short distance, but the rest looked great. And the repurposed barrel is an excellent AR shooter.
The above was kept and lapped as the rifling was better after the first third of the barrel.. and it shoots good for the intended purpose...with 2 loads, 300 gr Berger and 300 gr SMK. Cleaning is like politics, and everyone has different beliefs and procedures ...and does their own thing religiously, happy with the results right or wrong. The more barrels wore out with cleaning proceedures the more barrels sold. A "win-win" for the manufacturers of barrels and cleaning supplies...and the guy with a happy smile on his face, as he has the best barrel cleaning proceedures on the planet...
I use Iosso "sparingly" for years, no problem, but nowadays, let the scrubbing bubbles do all the work..I do not like to clean barrels, and quit "breaking them in". No problem getting barrel blanks to rechamber a rifle...all I want is quality rifled blank in good steel,...works for me.
I repurposed a factory 700 Police 26" 308 barrel for 30 RAR that had heavy firecracking from 8000 rds and still accurate. After profiling, chambering, barrel extension installed, etc..there was still a bit of decent firecracking for a short distance, but the rest looked great. And the repurposed barrel is an excellent AR shooter.
The above was kept and lapped as the rifling was better after the first third of the barrel.. and it shoots good for the intended purpose...with 2 loads, 300 gr Berger and 300 gr SMK. Cleaning is like politics, and everyone has different beliefs and procedures ...and does their own thing religiously, happy with the results right or wrong. The more barrels wore out with cleaning proceedures the more barrels sold. A "win-win" for the manufacturers of barrels and cleaning supplies...and the guy with a happy smile on his face, as he has the best barrel cleaning proceedures on the planet...
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@Frank Green - good question here. I too always thought of powder fowling being some shat of brown to tan and that the black stuff we see in the first part of our barrels is carbon.
Please confirm that I’m understanding you correctly and that it’s really powder residue.
Thanks as always for participating here with us. Priceless.
Yup, gonna have to replace this Benchmark with a Bartlein.@Frank Green - good question here. I too always thought of powder fowling being some shat of brown to tan and that the black stuff we see in the first part of our barrels is carbon.
Please confirm that I’m understanding you correctly and that it’s really powder residue.
Thanks as always for participating here with us. Priceless.
Anyone who says this barrel looks fine. "JuSt SchOOT iT" is a liar. "The red liquid isn't corrosion, its just reaction with "powder fouling". - Wipeout
Before:
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and that is just the bottle. Go to the website and there is one that says, "Won't leave harmful deposits". That's a fucking knee slapper right there Bubba!"
Probably meant if used as instructed. It does say that it can react with other chemicals so could have been what happened when left in for 45 minutes versus a wet patch of it pushed through and then use of wipe out or patch out right after that.
Did you miss the part where the Wipeout owner said even the way I used it, it couldn't harm the barrel?
It's all good. An attorney I spoke to says the sheer amount of product assurances listed between the bottle and the website would go heavily in my favor. Same attorney said I could likely "Pro Se" my case. (Pro Se = Represent Self) I would just need to study how to present evidence via rules of evidentiary procedure and abide by civil court proceedings. I can probably swing that. I see my courthouse has a "Pro Se" packet for small claims court. Pretty neat.
Was just thinking out loud having used the product in multiple barrels and nothing happened but keep us updated on the law suit.
That's going too far imo unless he's the one that told you to leave that crap in your barrel for 24 hours. As I understand it, you did that, then called him to blame it on him and he was defensive about it.
I have 364 days to file from date of occurrence. I'll give it day 363 to file. A very respected judge once told me, "Time is not a liar's friend". LOLOLOL!
There is an amount of information between Fred and "Wipeout man" that transpired via telephone to which we are not privy. Apparently Fred found discrepancies in what WOM stated stated about the product and even it's use. Prima facia evidence suggests a negative reaction occurred with the accelerator and the barrel. To which the WOM claims, even after the injurious occurrence & review of photos, the barrel looks unaffected. Even to a layman's eye we see there is something wrong with the barrel.
I should say I find it rather out of character for a product company to not seek further information on the matter. Was there any request by the company, aka WOM, to produce affected barrel for analysis? This seems like the most likely move of a reputable company who might seek this information to evaluate their product claim, or seek to enhance their product. In litigious realm, a company that does not endeavor to perform the previously mentioned acts, and instead replies, in essence with, "Challenge us with lawsuit about our product performance" indicates a both defensive and sensitive to guilt response.
I should say I find it rather out of character for a product company to not seek further information on the matter. Was there any request by the company, aka WOM, to produce affected barrel for analysis? This seems like the most likely move of a reputable company who might seek this information to evaluate their product claim, or seek to enhance their product. In litigious realm, a company that does not endeavor to perform the previously mentioned acts, and instead replies, in essence with, "Challenge us with lawsuit about our product performance" indicates a both defensive and sensitive to guilt response.
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Over a barrel?
It's gonna cost you a lot more than it's worth.
Or do you just need to prove a point?
I say buy another barrel and move on.
I just wonder how that "conversation" went.
Let's see, we have someone who is upset, rightfully so, that his barrel was apparently ruined by WOM's product.
So we have heard the aggrieved party's version of how this call went. Obviously, not to his satisfaction.
I'm thinking that WOM just may have another version of how this "conversation" went.
I'm not taking sides or calling anyone a liar. There are things that really don't make any sense here and I'm pretty sure there are some things that were said, and how they were said, that were left out.
Does any of this make any sense to y'all?
Let's see, we have someone who is upset, rightfully so, that his barrel was apparently ruined by WOM's product.
So we have heard the aggrieved party's version of how this call went. Obviously, not to his satisfaction.
I'm thinking that WOM just may have another version of how this "conversation" went.
I'm not taking sides or calling anyone a liar. There are things that really don't make any sense here and I'm pretty sure there are some things that were said, and how they were said, that were left out.
Does any of this make any sense to y'all?
Wipeout dude said to challenge him in court. So, I'll just fucking do it. I don't care if I lose. The hassle and cost to "defend" his lies will put a sting. If I win, I get court costs reimbursed, so okay!
You know what? I got a lot better chance in court than I do in the peanut gallery on SH. LOL
So, this is the same rifle that you blew up with the "case separation issue" a couple days before your "Accelerator issue"? Hmmm
Yup, bad couple days. Grab some balls between your legs and tell me what your gay ass "Hmmm" is all about. I can only imagine.
Did I say the brass failure did this you fucking smartass?
Go summons your SH cunt click goblin posse and let's get this party started!
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this is probably a lot closer to how the phone conversation went. . .
When you assume, you make an ass out of you and you. Goblins are a coming!this is probably a lot closer to how the phone conversation went. . .
NEXT GOBLIN?
I'm thinkin' that once the lawyer for the company you intend on suing gets ahold of your post history, you're the one who will be paying the legal fees.
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAH! If you had even a modicum of understanding of legal procedures. You should only talk about what you know. You'll look like less of a cunt that way.
NEXT GOBLIN!
Well, it's safe to assume, based upon your responses, that you are a calm, even tempered, reasonable fellow who never raises his voice or calls people names.
Am I close?
Please stop it....this ain't the fucking Bear Pit
So back on topic...
I doubt a monolithic copper bullet would produce the same amount of fouling as the steel core, but it would certainly be more than a lead core.
To respond to myself... highly effective for preventing corrosion/rust on raw steel, but I haven't seen much on use in bores or anything on reactivity w/ other chemicals. I did find this informal test on AS.
Norway discontinued the use of steel core ammo due to the increased copper and zinc particulate matter causing illness. From the paper I linked in #141:
Compared to the lead core ammo tested, the steel core ammo produced 3x to 4x the amount of copper and zinc mg/m^3. From Section 3.2:
I doubt a monolithic copper bullet would produce the same amount of fouling as the steel core, but it would certainly be more than a lead core.
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Nope, I save all that for you pathetic fucks who have more keyboard than brain and like to snipe comment expecting no reaction and then crying victim when you get shown a fool.Well, it's safe to assume, based upon your responses, that you are a calm, even tempered, reasonable fellow who never raises his voice or calls people names.
Am I close?
Oh I know, these poor posters were just so well meaning and big nasty meanie Fred just looses his mind....
