M40 Build Guide

[Deleted member 10043]

NOTE: I amended my previous post #839, to include the new color #78775a, to keep everything in one (1) place and to compare color content and percentage ratios.

Just might be...

Interesting that the red and green ratios are closer to 'balanced,' (as they are in 78766a) but the blue is substantially lower; making blue a more crucial component. Who'da thunk...

And, once again, this color, shows a close relationship with #78766b, "Camouflage Green."

This is a quest and establishing (finding-?) the optimum (not saying 'perfect') chemical formula and process is the goal. You do realize, that this is the first time that this topic has been pursued and researched, at any length.

From your perspective I would be looking at the Federal Standard color that is most cloesly related. Federal standard is the standard for federal GSA procurement. If there is specification between Remington and the USMC it would have been based on this standard. This standard is included with the various paint manufactures at the bottom of the color page. I would also add what we are experimenting with is no different than taking a paint chip to the local auto paint store and saying you want a can of this color in lacquer or enamel. They would scan it and go from there.

 

[BAH2112]

This is a M700 I completed a month or so ago.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

This is a M700 I completed a month or so ago.

Yeah, that looks really nice. What are the details?

 

[BAH2112]

66' 6digit rem, "VN M700" Take off barrel, repro stock, 40x base gen 1 redfield, bisonite bedded, original trigger/sear.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Hey, that is so cool. You're so lucky.

1. what is the story on the rifle find?
2. What barrel is mounted?
3. Which stock did you choose and did you have trouble with the in-letting?
4. I never heard of bisonite bedding. What is that?
4. How many pounds is that trigger set at?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Hey, that is so cool. You're so lucky.

1. what is the story on the rifle find?
2. What barrel is mounted?
3. Which stock did you choose and did you have trouble with the in-letting?
4. I never heard of bisonite bedding. What is that?
4. How many pounds is that trigger set at?

I just now noticing the serial numbers on the scope, base, and receiver. The receiver is black. That is Corps for ya.

 

[rlm8541]

Hey Culpeper, this is the M700 BAH finished for me. It's been several years of collecting parts. I've just recently gotten back in the states and looking forward to getting down to Quantico to pic it up.
BAH has built several guns for me over the past year and a half. A1,A5, and a CQBP as well as this one.
He does amazing work and his attention to detail is just amazing.

BAH stated most of the Specs. the Stock is a Silver Hill (which I wish I would have waited since I ended up locating an original take off). And as most have noticed with these stock's...It was a complete MESS. If I had to put a percentage on the inletting I feel comfortable in saying it was "maybe" 60% inletted. as well as the outer portion of the stock not even close. I spent approx. 7hrs. of work sanding measuring, comparing, and more sanding and measuring....just on the outer portion of the stock.
The amount of work done on the inletting in order to make is ready for bedding was rediculous according to BAH...to the point where he said he wouldn't do another...lolol. When all said and done it came out amazing!
The barrel is an actual M700 take off (it is worn but gauged close to a 1). I ended up locating and purchasing barrel, 40X bases and sets of 1-64 marked rings all together from the same person.
The stock was bedded with Basonite which is one of the materials that the 12's used to bed the wooden stocks in that era.
I located a few references to it in "One Round War". I had no idea. This was compound was researched and located by BAH. Just another example of the Attention to detail he put into it for me.
The Acurange is a story within its self. I ill explain in another post with other pictures. Almost as if it was meant for me to have it built.
In regards to the color of the receiver. It's not black. It is Parked grey. Just looks real dark in that particular picture because of the lighting as well as the barrel has a considerable amount of finish wear closer to the lug. This makes it appear to be much darker. The receiver color is closer to the color of the barrel closer to the muzzle. I didnt want him to re park the barrel as I wanted to leave most of the parts in their original condition.
Probably would have looked better esthetically if we had done all the parts but I wanted to leave them original.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

M40 Build Guide

Cool. I just about pissed in my pants when I opened up the original size of the image and noticed the U.S., serial numbers and so forth. I also appreciate the way you all call it "M700". That got my attention.

 

[MescaBug]

Very nice indeed!

Is this an original 1st gen Accurange? Color looks good. I couldnt help but notice the non matching black turret caps . Thats why I'm asking.

 

[rlm8541]

Yeah, its an original...Had no caps on it when I bought it. Caps are off another I had.

 

[BAH2112]

RLM is the owner of this rifle as stated and it took a lot of love to get that gun built and into present condition.

 

[scatsob]

There is an M40 take off barrel on gunbroker right now for the bargain price of $1100. Not my auction.

 

[MescaBug]

There is an M40 take off barrel on gunbroker right now for the bargain price of $1100. Not my auction.

Looks like a genuine M40 barrel. Original barrels were make in-house @ Remington. No markings (Remington Arms bla bla bla) like the Varmint Specials. Only the proofing and testing marks.

Nice piece of history right there. I dont think I've ever seen one for sale. And I bet we will never see another one again...

 

[scatsob]

I agree it is a very nice piece of history. I was being half facetious, it is worth every penny but it's still a dang lot of money for a barrel . It would be cool if we could get the barrels the pull from the M40A1's too.

 

[MescaBug]

Even if it looks legit, I would be cautious, and wouldnt pay that kind of money without a certificate of authenticity. I know a shop who does roll marks on steel tubing, believe me, they can replicate anything and nobody would be able to tell the difference.

Assuming it is 100% genuine, I wonder if its a take-off from an actual M40 rifle, or a NOS barrel that was never mated to an action?

 

[TWOMANATTACK]

Iron brigade armory has some originals. They are $400. The one on gunbroker is one of them being sold at a profit. Go to Iron Brigades website first and see what they still have.

 

[MescaBug]

Iron brigade armory has some originals. They are $400. The one on gunbroker is one of them being sold at a profit. Go to Iron Brigades website first and see what they still have.

I dont believe the barrels sold by IBA are originals. They just keep a constant supply of blank Hart barrels in stock.

As stated in Peter Senich book: Barrels fitted to the original Marine Corps sniper rifles were all made by Remington. Hart might have supplied some blanks to Remington, but all barrels were finished and marked in house @ Remington. So an unfinished Hart barrel without markings cannot be an original M40 issued barrel.

Looking back at Peter's book, I now think this barrel might be a fake. The '41' stamp is an assembler stamp. That means this barrel was inspected/assembled by the same person as in Peter Senich's book? Coincidence maybe, or maybe they faked it using Peter's book?

That being said, this is way overpriced for an item that authenticity cannot be succesfully verified.

 

[TWOMANATTACK]

may be worth checking into
Iron Brigade Armory

USMC M40 BARREL, VINTAGE 1967-1969-.308WIN/7.62MM

EXCELLENT CONDITION-parkerized finish.

BORE/THROAT ERSION 5-6. WORN LANDS AND GROOVES BUT ALL THERE.

MINOR PITTING IN SPOTS DUE TO AGE AND HARD USE, BUT STILL SERVICEABLE

PRICE: $400 — Have 2 , IBA pays shipping to lower 48

Photo - Photo -Photo - Photo

 

[MescaBug]

I thought you were talking about the Hart blanks in the Weapon Parts category.

 

[SFCUSARMY]

If you look at the paper work photo with the barrel, it is an original. It is also to be in excellent condition, and on GB you can send it back if not. Do ya'll think its worth the $$? I sure would like to have it!! Also, the ones on Iron BDE look to be re-finished.

 

[SFCUSARMY]

I think I may make a bid.... dont think its a rero.... has original Factory REM Markings, and if the 41 was faked, there would be markings from the previous stamp. If it was ground off, the the barrel will be out of round. It has not been re-finished from what I can tell as the stampings have sharp edges and are not rounded. all Parkerization matches and is appropriate for that time. I think I will take this one. I have purchased from this seller before and they are very good. Will post pics if I get it.

 

[MescaBug]

If you look at the paper work photo with the barrel, it is an original. It is also to be in excellent condition, and on GB you can send it back if not. Do ya'll think its worth the $$? I sure would like to have it!! Also, the ones on Iron BDE look to be re-finished.

I am not saying it is not original. Problem is, there is no authenticity papers with it. The photo is just a print from Peter Senich's book.

For example; the M40A1 stocks released by McMillan a few years ago all came with a certificate of authenticity. It cannot be faked. All stocks were inspected by McMillan and then a certificate was issued. You know what you're buying.

That being said, there is nothing to prove its original, but there is nothing to prove its a fake either. You dont know what you're buying. If you feel confident that you are buying a legitimate item, go for it.

There is no bid on it for a reason. Its WAYYYY overpriced, and we dont know for sure what it is. Anybody can believe what it wants to believe.

 

[MescaBug]

Even if its an original, what kind of value does it add to a M40 clone? Nada. Its just a 1K$ piece of steel.

The starting bid was way too high. If it was started lower, maybe, just maybe, it would have gathered more attention. Thousands of people are on the lookout for USMC militaria and parts for rifle builds, and no bids... That raises a flag.

EDIT: With laser and micro TIG welding, you can fill just about any type of engraving and nobody can tell.

 

[MescaBug]

Anybody knows what happened with the aunction?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Enlarged, for anyone wanting to save a (Very Kool Document ) copy for their build records:

Attached is some additional information. The records are located at the National Archives in MD. All the information is in the letter. Senich cites these procurement records by name but the archivist is stating they may not even exist. That is what I don't like about a research books with no list of sources. Like a bibliography or end notes.

 

[MescaBug]

Well then, we need to send someone to the National Archives

10 boxes of documents related to the M40 program. I wonder what kind of treasures these boxes contains.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

"Anybody knows what happened with the aunction?"

The barrel sold for $1,095. It's a legit Remington barrel and someone actually paid close to $1,500 for a NOS barrel a few months ago. Overpriced, IMHO.

 

[MescaBug]

I saw that yesterday (found the link on Google).

I dont know if its just me (scepticism), but how can one know for sure, and I mean without ANY doubt, that it is a legitimate M40 barrel? It might be a genuine Remington barrel, but nobody on this earth can convince me (again, without any doubt) that this barrel was ordered, fabricated, and issued, following the M40 rifle contract between Remington and the USMC. We can only 'assume' that it is.

Same thing for that genuine M40 stock that sold for over 1K$ a few months ago.

For those type of military memorabilia, without paperwork, I'm afraid I am, and will forever be, a non-believer.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

For those type of military memorabilia, without paperwork, I'm afraid I am, and will forever be, a non-believer.

I wouldn't say you're a nonbeliever. You just know "surplus" when you see it. But as mentioned by others, "IMHO. "

 

[USMCSGT0331]

"I dont know if its just me (scepticism), but how can one know for sure, and I mean without ANY doubt, that it is a legitimate M40 barrel?"


I know what you mean. Without proper paperwork it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to determine provenance. However, there is a source for authentic M40 barrels - LtCol Chandler at Iron Brigade Armory. He pulled barrels off of USMC, police and government agency's rifles around 40 years ago when the guns were being overhauled. These barrels do have that provenance, but it's impossible to deduce which ones were from actual USMC guns and which were from police or OGA guns (all of these guns used the exact same Remington barrels). The barrels Chandler has left gauge around 5-6 and would probably make for terrible shooters, pretty much just expensive collectors items at $400 per. The problem with the barrel that was just recently auctioned is not just a lack of provenance, but also the lack of throat/bore erosion measurements; for all we know it could be one of the shot-out barrels from Chandler at a $695 markup.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

I have over 3000 rounds down my SSA model. I asked Remington for the part number. They replied back they won't do that. To send it to the Remington custom shop to keep it real. Out of curiosity I'm going to reply back and get a quote.

 

[rlm8541]

Food for thought.....Remington did not make ( as I called Remington to confirm before I opened my trap on here..lol) a .308/7.62 medium heavy barrel in the 60's until the Corp requested it as a requirement for their M40/M700 rifles. So if you find a .308 proof/date stamped medium heavy there is a pretty good possibility that it is a USMC take off.....They are out there. It's just a matter of hunting and networking with people to locate them.
And as stated above...Remember,If it's a take off, there is a reason its a take off (gaging 3,4,5,6). If your looking to build a rifle with one, there is a good possibility that is "not" gonna be the greatest of shooter..... it is what it is.
Like I said, just food for thought.

 

[MescaBug]

I hear you guys.

I know the Chandlers have some very interesting stuff, and they were part of the M40 contract back in the days. I wouldnt challenge the provenance of an item from IBA, they are a reliable source. So I guess it is safe to say, that maybe that barrel was bought from IBA and sold for twice the price...

rlm8541: You mark a point here for the Remington heavy barrels. They first appear in 1967 as per the Remington catalog (dated January 1967). IIRC, the M40 contract was awarded sometimes in 66. So a genuine Remington heavy barrel stamped with a date prior to 67, would be a USMC M40 barrel I guess? The Varmint Special barrels have a thorough description stamped on the side, that would be hard to conceal. M40 barrels were probably custom made in THE shop.

An yes, that barrel on Gunbroker might be shot, bad rifling/bore/throat. Machining that barrel would be a blaspĥemy if its legit. That being said, its a museum piece IMO.

 

[rlm8541]

A little patience and persistance paid off. Much appreciation to the individual opened the door for me.
All original take off parts from a well know individual within the Vietnam era sniper community whom asked to remain anonymous.
40X base was also included but I forgot to include in the picture.

 

[rlm8541]

Mescabug.....regarding the barrels....I would assume so. I by no means would consider my self an expert by any means but from what research I have done and the people I have spoken to, that is the assumption I have come to.

Also the Varmint Specials like you have listed in the pic are 22" vs. the USMC 24".

 

[MescaBug]

A little patience and persistance paid off. Much appreciation to the individual opened the door for me.
All original take off parts from a well know individual within the Vietnam era sniper community whom asked to remain anonymous.
40X base was also included but I forgot to include in the picture.

Great score!!

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Been looking for one those protecto caddys'


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[tokiwartooth]

Forcing oxidation on the ano finish to mimic aging....

Original

 

[Deleted member 10043]

That looks like an old scope. Nice job. Very nice distress job.

 

[rlm8541]

Looks great Toki!
Whats the forced oxidation process?

 

[tokiwartooth]

Looks great Toki!
Whats the forced oxidation process?

Every part on the scope was anodized in the same dye, but you see each part is slightly different in color/cast after the oxidation process. Simply: I heat each part with a propane torch, which breaks down parts of the dye like the sunlight does. I bead blasted this scope, but I think I have to do a softer blast coupled with the scotch bright process I use. I'm going to redo the gold one in the background and a couple of other tubes I have. I've also added stadia lines to all the reticles I have and can now fully clean and rebuild erectors. I have 4 different types of wire. I can actually add stadia lines by eye now. The ONE thing that prevents me in converting any vintage Redfield to an Accurange is being able to produce a tombstone. I've duplicated it in Word, but I can't get it to print with enough detail when I reduce it in size. If someone with printing knowledge could help, it would push me over the finish line.

 

[MescaBug]

Wow, you nailed it with this one! I agree about the bead blasting though. The originals are shinier.

That's great R&D!

 

[Bolt_Trash]

Forcing oxidation on the ano finish to mimic aging....

Original

I was going to send you a PM about the possibility of doing just this. Obviously, it would have proved moot, as you were independently moving in that direction, anyway. You've found your market 'niche.' Very nicely done...

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Use image software to reduce the size of the tombstone. No different than taking an image and changing the size to fit in a frame without changing the qaulity


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[usmchog1965]

Okay, maybe someone can help me with this (hijacking this conversation a bit). My M40 build is in the process of getting my Schneider bbl mounted. The gunsmith (who is very respected locally) said he has no problem marking the 7.62 NATO on the bbl, but told me the receiver steel is too hard to mark with the U.S. stamp. I notice a lot of posters on here have that stamp on their receivers. Any suggestions will be welcomed.

My build started from a '68 ADL 22-250 (which killed me to break down). I've been able to find 1-66 rings, 722 base, vintage (and smelly) sling, and sling swivels (1 1/4" wood threads rear/machined with "nut" front). Stock is a Silver Hill repro which looks to be spot on. As things progress I'll post some pics.

thanks to all

 

[MescaBug]

said he has no problem marking the 7.62 NATO on the bbl, but told me the receiver steel is too hard to mark with the U.S. stamp. I notice a lot of posters on here have that stamp on their receivers. Any suggestions will be welcomed.

Not true. Maybe your gunsmight is not tooled to stamp receivers, but any shop that specializes in metallurgy (engraving, laser, welding) can stamp your barrel/receiver.

You can have it laser engrave. The lettering is more square than a roll stamp, but this is a clone rifle anyway.

Firearms inspection marks, date codes and whatnot were stamped at the factories with just a regular steel punch stamp.

 

[usmchog1965]

That's interesting. I had 3 other people (co-workers who are shooters but not gunsmiths) all agree that the receiver could not be stamped once it's been heat treated. Guess I'll go out and buy a good quality set of stamps.
Thanks a million, I'm sure I'll be looking for other nuggets of info as my project progresses.

 

[mallrat]

I got a discount on a Snap-on automatic centerpunch because another guy damaged the tip testing the hardened surface of a Snap-on wrench. The wrench didn't show a nick. You might have better luck with laser engraving or taking it to a specialist.

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

You could laser cut a stencil for chemical etching the receiver....

 

[Deleted member 10043]

As history progresses and we all die off these rifles are going to go from being described as "clones" to "forgeries". Some moron is going to bring one on the Antique Road Show that he got from a cousin of a cousin of a cousin. The "expert" will have to tell the poor sap, "I'm sorry but about 100 years ago a bunch of people got together at a grass root level and recreated these rifles. This is not a real M40 and is worth about nothing."