M40 Build Guide

#901
tokiwartooth said:
THIS is a generation 2, and NOT an original. I can tell from the ano finish. That color is the actual dye not oxidation.
Click to expand...

Your corrections of my obvious errors, in pointing out these Redfield design and component nuances, make us all better at critiquing the photos that we come across. Thanks!

Note: I've made 'CORRECTION(S) to the 'factoids' in my original post #908, based on members 'tokiwartooh's' and 'Culpeper's' comments.
 
Last edited:
#902
Culpeper said:
The Badger base/rings is the one that doesn’t use flat head screws.
Click to expand...

Culpeper, Thanks for that observation.

From a collectors standpoint, I'd think that you'd be absolutely required to declare, in the body and content of your sales description, the origin and presence of reproduction and/or aftermarket components to your rifle. Right?

Q.'s...

Q. Have any 'documented' M40's been located that had 'documented' scope mounts and/or 'documented' scopes mounted on them, that DID NOT match the serial number on the receiver?

Q. Or, is the matched pairings, of these components, an 'absolute' that was never deviated from?

In essence, this presupposes that scopes and mounts were never 're-purposed' or 'rebuilt/reconditioned,' but always replaced with 'factory-new.'
 
#903
According to Senich's book, rifle, scope and base were identified with matching serial number after sight-in and final acceptance.

- 550 rifles with scope were calibrated, test fired and serialized.
- 150 had only the Redfield base, no scope.

Rifles shipped without a scope did not have the serial on the base. So what happen to these 150 rifles after they shipped, we dont know. Did the armorers serialized the base after repairs? We dont know either.

There might be a publication in the archives somewhere with repairs procedures. My guess is that it was up to the armorers doing the job.
 
#904
MescaBug said:
According to Senich's book, rifle, scope and base were identified with matching serial number after sight-in and final acceptance.

- 550 rifles with scope were calibrated, test fired and serialized.
- 150 had only the Redfield base, no scope.

Rifles shipped without a scope did not have the serial on the base. So what happen to these 150 rifles after they shipped, we dont know. Did the armorers serialized the base after repairs? We dont know either.

There might be a publication in the archives somewhere with repairs procedures. My guess is that it was up to the armorers doing the job.
Click to expand...

That still leaves ~250 that followed, in production, without any comments and/or disposition on matching serialized receivers, bases and scopes. Just when you thought that there couldn't be another question about the M40, without an answer.

My tendency, in the instant case, is to go with the USMC armorers, insuring that these components, stayed matched. I.E., broken - meant defective - meant discarded and replaced with brand new. An earlier post made the point that the numbers were engraved on the mounts and bases, by hand; which isn't time and labor intensive and an easy procedure to adhere to.

Absent, of course, a 'proof,' to the contrary and then I'm dead wrong... :p

IF, however, two (2) documented scopes are found with the same serial number, I fall on the right side of a good guess... :cool: Note: This may, in fact, be the better of the two (2) options, in looking for a 'proof.'
 
#905
Many didn't survive the war and other surviving parts became surplus. Then you have the RVN losing everything to The North. Nobody will ever know for sure.


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
 
#910
MescaBug,

Let me the first to say, CONGRATULATIONS!!

That sure looks like the real deal and the buttplate, swivels, sling and full bottom metal are great bonus features.

You've done a really great post in the "Vintage" section and well worth the read. Here's a redirect link to help other M40 members:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...242934-genuine-remington-m40-stock-found.html

Once you re-enter earth's orbit and you've decompressed, I'll be wanting all sorts of details and measurements. :cool:
 
Last edited:
#911
Looks like the barrel channel has been bedded as well.

From Senich's book:

- The stock warps at the forend, touching the barrel and adversely affecting accuracy.
- Fiberglass the receivers and full-float the barrel channels at the factory. Waterproof the barrel channels.

Looks like some improvements have been made to that stock. It fits that description.

Bolt_Trash said:
Does this stock have a high-sheen oil finish on it? Waxed?
Click to expand...

Looks like a varnish of some kind. Again, from Senich's book:

- The stock is not sufficiently waterproofed as the oil treatment is totally unsatisfactory in this climate.
- Adopt the use of a waterproof finish such as hard polyurethane varnish, then paint the stocks a dull-grey or non-gloss dark green to eliminate reflection.

Chuck Mawhinney's and other documented rifles have that same finish. On my stock, we can clearly see some green/olive drab paint overspray:





 
Last edited:
#912
Again great find Mesca....I found one of these through a friendas well. Although, mine doesnt seem to have seen heavy field use. No bedding or varnish ether. ( I actually like yours better as the paint, basonite and wear reveals more history).
Thanks for sharing man and look forward to seeing it on a build.
 
#913
It is indeed an awesome find! Thanks for the comments ;)

Reading through Senich's book again trying to find other clues.

I have a nice 6-digit Rem 700 from 1966 that I could use for a build. But it is such a nice gun, I just cant canibalize it... The hunt continues for another 6-digit.

 
#916
Guys,

I finally was able to remove the buttplate. Took almost an hour, very slowly as I didnt want to strip the heads. The screws were stuck. My guess is that maybe the wood swelled because of moisture?

We can see that water or a liquid of some sort dripped down the buttstock. There is a masking tape label on the buttplate. It is so old I cant even touch it, it goes to dust. It is yellowed with age. Could that be the rifle last 4 digit? Again, that's a guess.... There is a faint "US" mark on the buttstock.

This is getting more and more interesting!



 
#917
The number is from Remington. At one time the stock had the same number. This way the plate can be matched to the correct stock during fit and finish process. You have the real McCoy. The rest of the rifle probably became an M40A1.:D

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
 
  • Like
Reactions: LUNCHBOX0621
#918
Curious...

MescaBug,

... about the surface of the butt stock. Is it sealed with green-ish paint? Would make sense, given that the wood for stock blanks is also typically painted to seal the end grain during curing and to reduce checking.

Man, I love see'n these details.:cool:

This is gett'n down to the nitty-gritty of stock details, for the M40, something that heretofore was completely unavailable to us.


MescaBug said:
Guys,

I finally was able to remove the buttplate. Took almost an hour, very slowly as I didnt want to strip the heads. The screws were stuck. My guess is that maybe the wood swelled because of moisture?

We can see that water or a liquid of some sort dripped down the buttstock. There is a masking tape label on the buttplate. It is so old I cant even touch it, it goes to dust. It is yellowed with age. Could that be the rifle last 4 digit? Again, that's a guess.... There is a faint "US" mark on the buttstock.

This is getting more and more interesting!



Click to expand...
 
#919
Bolt_Trash said:
MescaBug,

... about the surface of the butt stock. Is it sealed with green-ish paint? Would make sense, given that the wood for stock blanks is also typically painted to seal the end grain during curing and to reduce checking.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the entire buttstock area or just the area covered by the buttplate?

The area under the buttplate is in fact, covered/sealed in dark olive paint. Its hard to tell from the picture, but water has dripped down the buttstock over the paint. Although it is a perfect fit, there is no seal between the buttplate/buttstock, I guess rain/moisture got in there.

I dont see any overspray on the buttplate, it was probably removed prior to painting the stock.

Culpeper said:
The rest of the rifle probably became an M40A1.:D
Click to expand...

Yeah probably! But the seller told my buddy what he still has the rifle he took this stock from. He got the complete rifle early 80's at a flea market. I dont believe it is a genuine M40 barreled action, but I am following a lead. Will keep you guys posted.
 
Last edited:
#920
Anybody know why these butt plates come with a prefix number under the part number. I've seen 1, 2, and 3. They are probably slightly different sized to match to a stock as close as possible before finishing. Just a guess.
 
#921
Culpeper said:
Anybody know why these butt plates come with a prefix number under the part number. I've seen 1, 2, and 3. They are probably slightly different sized to match to a stock as close as possible before finishing. Just a guess.
Click to expand...

That would be my guess as well. Take a look at post #822. I have a few of these buttplates, and they are all slightly different in length. I will have to check which one is what..

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...les/53800-m40-build-guide-17.html#post2907396
 
#922
That would be super cool if that tape is part of the original serial number. But my mind keeps telling me they would have engraved it like the other parts. Anything is possible. The armorers may have worked on a set of rifles and taped the buttplates to put them back on the correct rifle. That sounds logical too. Probably right and makes sense since the stock appears to be refinished by the Corps.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#925
Culpeper said:
Anybody know why these butt plates come with a prefix number under the part number. I've seen 1, 2, and 3. They are probably slightly different sized to match to a stock as close as possible before finishing. Just a guess.
Click to expand...

I checked the buttplates I have, and there is no relation between the number and the length. I have 2 X #1, different length. #4 is shorter than one of the #1, #3 is the longest... It makes no sense. They were fitted (sanding, grinding) to the buttstock. So unless we can compare originals, we'll never know I guess. Maybe ask Remington?
 
#927
Sling Swivel Tutorial...

Thought I'd throw this up on the board to see if it sticks.

Some time back, I acquired a machine threaded front swivel post and body (Rem.725) out of a parts group (post #802.) The swivel was for a 3/4" to 7/8" sling. In a prior post (post #620) I speculated that the post could be exchanged by drifting the pin and swapping the post out... WRONG.

The post and swivel body is either a very clean one (1) piece casting or a press fit (trust me, I have the scrap metal to prove it) and the purpose of the pin, is to retain the swivel loop. Removing the pin, allows the swivel loop to be exchanged. The pin can be drifted out, after soaking the swivel in some WD40/oil and drifting with a common 1/16" pin punch (Ace Hardware.)

IMG_4673_zps9487c621.jpg


Remove the swivel loop by pushing one end completely through and then rotating the loop, slightly, clockwise or counter-clockwise. DO NOT BEND UPWARDS (as a certain Mr. In A Hurry did) SEE PHOTO.

IMG_4675_zps3c927e56.jpg



Sling Swivels: Left to Right / Numrich 513T, Numrich 513T and 1870-1880's Trapdoor donor part (same size, spec. hadn't really changed in ~100 years)

IMG_4672_zps31d472df.jpg



I think I'll keep the 513T intact and use the donor Trapdoor part. This swivel comes off of an old upper barrel band, with the stacking swivel. Reproduction Springfield parts would probably (?) also work.

IMG_4674_zpsd4ed555f.jpg
 
Last edited:
#928
Nice! Thanks for posting. I would keep the 513 and grind the tabs off the Trapdoor swivel. And voila, you have a correct M40 front swivel.

I think the theads are 10/32 which is the same as a Uncle Mikes (or any other) machined insert.
 
#929
MescaBug said:
I think the theads are 10/32 which is the same as a Uncle Mikes (or any other) machined insert.
Click to expand...

That's a Negative there, MescaBug. If you go back to my prior Post #720, I really thought so too. You'd think that something on this rifle would be standard, but as we've been finding out, even the barrel was a new contour. Apparently in the early to mid 60's, Remington didn't know that they were supposed to listening to the Wall Street gurus and making their firearms, as cheaply as possible.

That machine threaded post on the M40 (Rem.725) is Heavy Duty. The post O.D. mic's to .220 " while the O.D on a 10-32 mic's to .1890". I don't have a thread gauge, but will find out and post/update later.

The I.D. of the Numrich 513T or the Springfield Trapdoor swivel loop are correct for M40. There's acceptable variation in every manufacturing process and the two (2) 513T swivel loops that I have, from Numrich, measure 1.475" and 1.490" respectively. The Trapdoor swivel measures 1.445. They're swivel loops, not parts for the NASA Mars landing project. They all look close, to the eye.

Too often, we get caught-up in the generic descriptions, i.e., "1-1/4 inch or 1-1/2 inch swivel," when the fact is that it's not an exact measurement and misleads us into thinking that we have a "close substitute," for our builds. Numrich describes the 513T as an 1-1/4" swivel, yet "tokiwartooth," stated that his 513T's were 1-1/2" in Post #694. Then, "Culpeper" pointed the way, when he actually mic'd his SSA swivel loop(s) at 1.475" in Post #806.

I thought I was going to have to replace my 513T swivel loops because they were advertised as "1-1/4 inch," and the M40's were 1-1/2 inch (my Post #802,) when in actuality, I've/we've all had the correct size, all along.
 
Last edited:
#931
Hey Mesca....That is true. They did grind the tabs off of the the follower in order to accom. that 5th round. I had heard it in the past as well. I then confirmed that through Capt. Land last year.
 
#932
rlm8541 said:
Hey Mesca....That is true. They did grind the tabs off of the the follower in order to accom. that 5th round. I had heard it in the past as well. I then confirmed that through Capt. Land last year.
Click to expand...

Allright thanks. Tabs are bent over the follower spring on mine. I can fit 5 rounds, but its a tight fit. I can see why they ground off the tabs. Maybe it was a quick fix, we'll never know.

New information: there is a faint number electro penciled on the milled follower. No idea what this means.

As for the sling swivels, they are 1-1/2". Outside 1.795" and 1.792".




 
#934
Hey Mesca, thanks for the pics. It looks as if the follower you have is a milled one. The tabs they refer to are a little closer to the front of the follower and from what I have seen (along with mine) were on the stamped followers.
Again, thanks for the pics
 
#935
I see course tool marks where the spring slides into the follower. But he is referring to the tabs to the left on photo #1. In photo #2 they appear to the right. Those appear to be bent over. Factory followers have these straight up.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
#937
Culpeper said:
how much work on the stock thus far?
Click to expand...

Oh, about 3 hours on the action inletting. I'm onto the bottom metal currently. That will probably take 2 hours or so. I've got to recontour the underside of the stock to get a good fit with the bottom metal. Then the buttstock. In all, this stock is miles better than the last one I tried it on. Seriously, I'm very happy with what I got this time around.

The barrel channel on this one is near perfect. The last one was terrible. This ones buttstock is more oversized than the last one, but I'm cool with it. I really enjoy woodworking. Never knew I did until trying this M40 build.

I don't know. I listen to the classical music radio station and go into zen mode. Guess I'm pretending I'm making a violin for Vivaldi or something.

I'm enjoying the hell out of this. It'll be the last rifle I build or buy for probably a couple of years. It will be a perfect punctuation for this part of my life.
 
#938
aur0ra145 said:
Oh, about 3 hours on the action inletting. I'm onto the bottom metal currently. That will probably take 2 hours or so. I've got to recontour the underside of the stock to get a good fit with the bottom metal. Then the buttstock. In all, this stock is miles better than the last one I tried it on. Seriously, I'm very happy with what I got this time around.

The barrel channel on this one is near perfect. The last one was terrible. This ones buttstock is more oversized than the last one, but I'm cool with it. I really enjoy woodworking. Never knew I did until trying this M40 build.

I don't know. I listen to the classical music radio station and go into zen mode. Guess I'm pretending I'm making a violin for Vivaldi or something.

I'm enjoying the hell out of this. It'll be the last rifle I build or buy for probably a couple of years. It will be a perfect punctuation for this part of my life.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the 1st one Silverhill send me.... I spent 4 hours on it. The barrel channel was a crooked, but I made it work. Tons of inletting. Put so much work into it, pillars, bedding. The And you all saw the finish job I did on it. They sent me a replacement, but I have not gotten around to it yet.
 
#939
Culpeper said:
I see course tool marks where the spring slides into the follower. But he is referring to the tabs to the left on photo #1. In photo #2 they appear to the right. Those appear to be bent over. Factory followers have these straight up.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Maybe a quick fix to fit 5 rounds? Maybe the armorer didnt have a tool to grind them off...

Good job on the SH stock aur0ra145, looks good ;)
 
#940
The M40 Swivel(s) Dissected...

Any prior and/or published reference to the M40 having a 1-1/2 inch sling swivel is inaccurate. It suggests that it's designed, for use, with a 1-1/2 inch sling.

Definitive information: The M40 sling swivel, in actuality, is a 1-1/4 inch swivel, with a "loop" that measures ~1-1/2 inch ID (manufacturing variation, notwithstanding [1.440 - 1.505]) and is designed,for use, with a 1-1/4 inch width sling.

- So it is said. So shall it be written. -

We will speak of the 1-1/2 inch M40 sling swivel, no more.


Thanks, MescaBug!


MescaBug said:
As for the sling swivels, they are 1-1/2". Outside 1.795" and 1.792".


Click to expand...
 
#942
Looks like the real deal to me. We know that its possible to reproduce the green anodizing, but you cant reproduce the 'patina'.

That scope is a beauty. Price/reserve is ridiculous. But thats the current market value for these scopes. Unfortunately, it is match to a specific receiver. Unless you can locate that rifle, it doesnt add any value to a M40 build.
 
#943
Well, it at least looks like a rifle now. I'm going to start on the BLO tonight and continue the search for a front swivel.
 

Attachments

  • M40 1.jpg
    M40 1.jpg
    203.1 KB · Views: 75
  • M40 2.jpg
    M40 2.jpg
    192.8 KB · Views: 82
#945
MescaBug said:
Do you need a threaded front swivel or wood screw? I think I have a spare 513T that I ordered from Numrich. Since I got that genuine M40 stock, I wont need that swivel anymore.

Rifle looks good!
Click to expand...

I've got the 513T wood screw. I'm looking for the threaded front screw. I think I've got a source for one but they haven't gotten back to me yet. Plus, there is always the gun shows, maybe I'll get lucky one of these times. Patience certainly pays off!
 
#946
Img_0050.jpgImg_0047.jpgFor everyone with Silver Hill (now Gunville and Silver Hill Holding Co.) M40 stocks purchased around a year ago and prior, Rob's model had a slight cant between the receiver and barrel channel. I just talked with Rob and he's familiar with the problem. If you call him he'll tell you to send your stock back and he'll swap it out for one of his new one's that is correct. After looking at pictures of all the different stocks out there, I feel like his is the best profile out there (in my opinion). My '68 butt plate matched up perfect, the bottom metal almost dropped in with very minor inletting, and I really like the over sized "beefy" forend. Also, one of the biggest inconsistencies I've noticed with other maker's stocks is the either overly curved pistol grip, or the notch behind the pistol grip being too deep. Another great thing is, Silver Hill's stocks are currently only $175 and made with American Walnut.

Just my two cents worth.

I know nobody asked, but I thought I'd drop a couple pics of my build. I started with a '68 342'xxx action, just had my Schneider medium varmint barrel mounted, and am waiting for the stock to get back to me. The stock pictured is the old one with the slight cant. It's definitely been a long (and fun) journey.
 
Last edited:
#947
The scope seller sold a J. Unertl 1-1/2" Target 'USMC-Sniper' telescopic sight (#220052044363) for $5100 in 2007. This should be an interesting auction.

Glad to see you got that barrel on. Looks good. Same to aur0ra145!
 
#949
usmchog1965 said:
View attachment 34927View attachment 34928After looking at pictures of all the different stocks out there, I feel like his is the best profile out there (in my opinion). My '68 butt plate matched up perfect, the bottom metal almost dropped in with very minor inletting, and I really like the over sized "beefy" forend. Also, one of the biggest inconsistencies I've noticed with other maker's stocks is the either overly curved pistol grip, or the notch behind the pistol grip being too deep. Another great thing is, Silver Hill's stocks are currently only $175 and made with American Walnut.
Click to expand...

Nice rifle! And good work on the stock ;)

I cant agree with the Silver Hill being the 'best' profile out there. Everyone that got one of these stocks had to put hours and hours of work on it. I dont consider this as being 'the best'. I personally got one last year, and it was awful. Far from being a M40 clone stock. No saying its not a good product, but its not the best. Most people were lucky because they have basic woodworking skills. If looking a 100% drop-in stock, dont get a Silver Hill. It wont fit, period. And its not finished. You have to buy some oil, supplies and whatnot to actually have a stock that ressembles a M40.

The Numrich stock is the closest. It is a perfect fit since it is actually a Remington product. That stock was used for the mid-80's police rifle. I dont think police departments had woodworkers fitting stocks to barreled action.

If lucky, one can find a plain ADL stock on eBay. No checkering, metal buttplate, heavy barrel channel (can be opened up if not).
 
Last edited:
#950
MescaBug said:
Nice rifle! And good work on the stock ;)

I cant agree with the Silver Hill being the 'best' profile out there. Everyone that got one of these stocks had to put hours and hours of work on it. I dont consider this as being 'the best'. I personally got one last year, and it was awful. Far from being a M40 clone stock. No saying its not a good product, but its not the best. Most people were lucky because they have basic woodworking skills. If looking a 100% drop-in stock, dont get a Silver Hill. It wont fit, period. And its not finished. You have to buy some oil, supplies and whatnot to actually have a stock that ressembles a M40.

The Numrich stock is the closest. It is a perfect fit since it is actually a Remington product. That stock was used for the mid-80's police rifle. I dont think police departments had woodworkers fitting stocks to barreled action.

If lucky, one can find a plain ADL stock on eBay. No checkering, metal buttplate, heavy barrel channel (can be opened up if not).
Click to expand...


All valid points. I've built a few flintlock rifles from scratch so a little woodworking never bothered me. Plus, I like the idea of doing the finish work on the stock as well. But I can also appreciate not having to do all these extras and having a drop-in as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

R
Which Scope Mount for my M40 Project
Replies
4
Views
451
lmc08541
lmc08541
Coejro
SOLD Redfield 3-9 1” Tube M40 scope - anodized green
Replies
4
Views
473
Coejro
Coejro
Overwatch260
M40 build thread
Replies
24
Views
2K
camocorvette
camocorvette
81sfo
SOLD Remington 700 M40
Replies
7
Views
2K
TCAP
TCAP
USMCSGT0331
Extraordinarily rare GL/SSC clone build is finally complete!
Replies
6
Views
857
csg2023
csg2023
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts