M40 Build Guide
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Sir, My thanks for that clarification.
I'm glad that Badger was that meticulous in it's replication of the original Redfield 40X. I had anticipated a change, of some type; substituting a proprietary design change, to avoid/side-step a patent infringement. Sorry, that's the way my brain works. My pursuit of that 'fact,' is purely selfish. To wit, if I don't have an original 40X mount, for my clone build, I still want to use an original ring set.
My thanks again.
I'm glad that Badger was that meticulous in it's replication of the original Redfield 40X. I had anticipated a change, of some type; substituting a proprietary design change, to avoid/side-step a patent infringement. Sorry, that's the way my brain works. My pursuit of that 'fact,' is purely selfish. To wit, if I don't have an original 40X mount, for my clone build, I still want to use an original ring set.
My thanks again.
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The only advantage that Badger has over a commercial set is the Badger has tighter tolerances. It is true out of the box. It would be extremely easy for someone that doesn't know to crush the side of the scope with the base windage screws or if the scope is slightly crooked it would put undue stress on the scope and possibly break something inside. Putting commericial redfield rings on this base would be defeating the purpose. Badger obtained a set for the USMC and reproduced it. It is a latter set for the M40. It may have even been on an early M40A1 for all I know. As for Redfield, they simply left any markings on it completely sterile. The Badger base has a little more MOA but so does the later Redfield bases.
Culpeper, I noted your previous enthusiasm with the 'dead-nuts' tolerances of the Badger mount and rings and your logic, that there is no substantive value in substituting the Badger rings, given their level of precision and fit, can't really be questioned. Looks to me, like the SWFA Badger M40 mount, is in my immediate future.
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Well....that seems to be the million dollar question. They have a "Sniper Gray" that matches the M40a1 I used to carry, but I've never looked at an M40 to judge the color. Since my build is an original '68 rifle, I figured I would leave the bottom metal the factory matte black (I thought I read somewhere that's the correct color). That leaves the barreled action, butt plate, and bolt.
Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions??
Thanks
I think you are on the right path. I would love to have kept my action the same color as it was because it matched the Park color of my M700 take off barrel as well. But after having the old six digit clip slotted it obviously had to be re parked.....the guys at PWS worked pretty hard to try and get it close but said that the chemicals they use there now are different than what they used back then. So they weren't able to match it exactly. They did a pretty good job but it is definitely a little darker than the barrel.
Not sure about Cerakoting. Haven't ever seen one done in the grey.
You are correct...the flat black on the original bottom metal is the correct color. I have spoke to several guys and have also read that Remington use to Black Oxide the bolts (according to Senich's book as well). I have seen and handled several original M700's and ive seen the butt plates unpainted or finished around the edges with only signs of finishing oils or laqour build up and have also seen a couple that have been painted black. Not sure if from the factory of after. I know that the stocks use to be finished/fitted with the butt plates attached so that they would fit cleanly....Hence why none of the butt plates you see now are the same size or dimension. Close but not the same.
Hope this helps and I didn't step on your toes Culpeper if i did...lol...Wasnt intentional.
Let me know if Im in violation by asking here, but I'm in need of an early M700 trigger set with the flat slab side safety (single or double sere)....Anyone here got an extra they are willing to move on?
If Im out of line please dont boot me...lol. Just let me know.
Thanks!
If Im out of line please dont boot me...lol. Just let me know.
Thanks!
Get out of here!!
As we all know, the M40 have quite a bit of green in the parkerized finish. I wonder if a Cerakote with a shade of green would be closer. I was thinking:
ACU Green
Item: H-260Q
Description: Dark greenish grey
Mil Spec Green
Item: H-264Q
Description: Dark olive drab green
Dark Green
Item: H-131Q
Description: A dark green.
Sniper Green
Item: H-229Q
Description: A dark green.
Benchmade OD Green
Item: H-233Q
Description: A forest green with a matte finish - 2.0 gloss units at a 60 degree angle
Green Beret Green
Item: H-251Q
Description:A very dark, almost black green.
Get out of here!!
As we all know, the M40 have quite a bit of green in the parkerized finish. I wonder if a Cerakote with a shade of green would be closer. I was thinking:
ACU Green
Item: H-260Q
Description: Dark greenish grey
Mil Spec Green
Item: H-264Q
Description: Dark olive drab green
Dark Green
Item: H-131Q
Description: A dark green.
Sniper Green
Item: H-229Q
Description: A dark green.
Benchmade OD Green
Item: H-233Q
Description: A forest green with a matte finish - 2.0 gloss units at a 60 degree angle
Green Beret Green
Item: H-251Q
Description:A very dark, almost black green.
That green park is sought out by people that own/buy M1 garands and 1903's. The general consensus is that its a creation of time, cosmoline, sweat and honest use. Lots of people try to recreate it but it just doesnt comeout the same. USMC 03's are often described as "Pee Yellow Park"
Most gunsmiths wont do 'old school' parkerizing. Ban on specific chemicals... I heard you can get that greenish hue by soaking the parts in diesel fuel or molasse... Old wive's tales I guess, nobody dare soaking a newly built rifle in diesel!!
The diesel deal is probably legit. There is a video of Marine armorers on Iwo Jima recovering Garands from the battle field. They are using rectangular tin tubs to dip and soak the entire barreled action. All that oil, sweat, and blood is recorded in the pores of the parkerizing. I dont think it can be artificially reproduced. I have followed the Garand/03 forums as I have an interest in those guns and lots of guys have tried to get that green hue with little success.
There is a gtg M1903 restorer that goes by the screen name Chuckindenver. I believe he old school parks his rifle rebuilds. He has dabbled in trying to achieve the green color. A quick PM to Chuck via the forum at Culvers Shooting Page, you will probably find him in the 03 section, may provide some information/resources for getting an old school parkerizing job and if there is anyway to achieve that been there, done that color.
Get out of here!!
As we all know, the M40 have quite a bit of green in the parkerized finish. I wonder if a Cerakote with a shade of green would be closer. I was thinking:
ACU Green
Item: H-260Q
Description: Dark greenish grey
Mil Spec Green
Item: H-264Q
Description: Dark olive drab green
Dark Green
Item: H-131Q
Description: A dark green.
Sniper Green
Item: H-229Q
Description: A dark green.
Benchmade OD Green
Item: H-233Q
Description: A forest green with a matte finish - 2.0 gloss units at a 60 degree angle
Green Beret Green
Item: H-251Q
Description:A very dark, almost black green.
Mesa, thanks for all the color suggestions. I'll have to give them all a look-see. I've heard from a couple sources that Kedron at Modern Tactical blends his own colors and is a genius with Cerakote accurately matching most vintage military colors. They have a great video on their process as well. Of course I can't say first hand, but once I get my barreled action back, I'll definitely be posting pics regardless of the outcome.
I've also attached a link to Alternative Firearm Coating's color simulator. It gives you a pretty good idea of colors.
Gun Finish Gun Coating refinishing services by Alternative Gun Coatings
If there is actually someone out there, today, that is achieving the 'green' tint and will accept individual orders... send me a PM. Me and bunch of other people, given the frequency of this topic, of late.
The last person I corresponded with, was a small licensed commercial re-finisher that had both a reputation for being able to achieve the 'green' color and verifiable results. He no longer accepts parkerizing jobs for that 'shade' as the chemicals are classified as 'Hazardous,' cannot be shipped and are no longer commercially available. Too bad really. While not entirely cost prohibitive, he did say that the process was 'finicky' and that re-do's were very common; but when everything went right, the results were spectacular.
Regrettably, the demand for the 'green' parkerizing never covered the costs/expenses and ultimately, environmental regulations closed the door.
Even if diesel fuel was a component, today's diesel fuel has significantly less sulphur. Is sulphur (yellow in color) a critical component? Possibly, but it certainly would work/react in conjunction with a few others chemicals, like a curing process. Someone else had mentioned Valvoline?
Cerakote is certainly an color option and if it weren't for how aggressive you have to be in removing it, to make a change, I'd consider it. Tough stuff- works on wood also.
The last person I corresponded with, was a small licensed commercial re-finisher that had both a reputation for being able to achieve the 'green' color and verifiable results. He no longer accepts parkerizing jobs for that 'shade' as the chemicals are classified as 'Hazardous,' cannot be shipped and are no longer commercially available. Too bad really. While not entirely cost prohibitive, he did say that the process was 'finicky' and that re-do's were very common; but when everything went right, the results were spectacular.
Regrettably, the demand for the 'green' parkerizing never covered the costs/expenses and ultimately, environmental regulations closed the door.
Even if diesel fuel was a component, today's diesel fuel has significantly less sulphur. Is sulphur (yellow in color) a critical component? Possibly, but it certainly would work/react in conjunction with a few others chemicals, like a curing process. Someone else had mentioned Valvoline?
Cerakote is certainly an color option and if it weren't for how aggressive you have to be in removing it, to make a change, I'd consider it. Tough stuff- works on wood also.
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Pm sent to ChuckinDenver. He does a lot if park. He's not an M40 builder but does good work on 03 and M1941 rifles. Last rifle I saw of his was a dark park which leads me to believe his experiments were not successful.
Diesel fuel was not a component it was just what the park was exposed to in service during maintenance as well as other chemicals
Go to this link
Stock Footage - US Marine Corps of 3rd Infantry Division Marines repair rifles at Ordnance small arms repair set up in Iwo Jima, Japan.
Some green park
Reply from ChuckinDenver to question if he can do green park.......
Location: Denver CoPosts: 2,739
Re: Piss green park
unless you have a time machine,.no..
grease, and time is the only way...
iv tried many things, and all look like crap.
light grey, and dark grey are the only choices ...
Hes not the only guy that does park maybe someone else has unlocked the secret to getting gree tint in the park.
Ive seen research on the finish of new Garands from WWII and they left Springfield black yet their salty brothers in combat turned green from hard use. I use some WWII bore cleaner when I fire corrosive and its black with a strong creosote odor. I could imagine it played a role in tinging park green.
...but how do you explain the green on rifles probably never exposed to the environmental no nos of back than?
I just wanted to post an update for my build. I've got the metal 99% inletetted and am ready to send the barrel/receiver for coating. This project is so close now I can feel the trigger break!
Attachments
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You're almost there! Nice work
. Is it me or the barrel looks thicker than the standard Rem Varmint profile?
You're almost there! Nice work
Honestly, it does look heavier. I've measured with calipers and compared to the original '68 barrel that came on the rifle and it's dead on. I can only assume that in the white, the glare and reflection make it appear heavier. Once I get it coated, it should look correct. After all, dark is slimming.
Here is one of the M700 I had built this last fall by Ssgt. Hahn at PWS....Picked it up from him in Feb. Came out beautiful. Yes the parkerizing on the receiver is a little darker than the original take off barrel. The darkness is enhanced a little in the picture by shadows and lighting. Not as dark as it appears in the pic. It was originally built with the Green contract scope (which has a pretty interesting and cool story about it in its self) but I removed it for another build that is just about complete as well. Replaced it with the black satin gen2. Picked up the original black satin Gen2 in a little bartering/horse trading from a good friend and Hide member.
-Original Black Satin Gen2 Redfield Acu Range 3X9 (with tombstone)
-Original M700 take off barrel date stamp Oct. 66
-Six Digit Clip slotted action
-Original Redfield 40X (marked) base with 4 screw 1-64 stamped low rings
-513T sling swivels
-Original Aluminum Butt Plate fitted to the stock
-Silver Hill Stock (30+ hrs of wood removal done. Exterior and inletting. Over 1/2 inch of overall circumference removed from the end off the forend to the receiver and 1/4" removed from the receiver to the buttplate). Receiver bedded with Basonite as they were done in the 60's. Receiver had to be bedded in order for it to be shootable.
Overall t came out beautiful.
Have another just about finished. Same specs as above except will be in an original Vietnam M700 take off/return stock and the Green contract Redfield.
Pics of the build in progress...
-Original Black Satin Gen2 Redfield Acu Range 3X9 (with tombstone)
-Original M700 take off barrel date stamp Oct. 66
-Six Digit Clip slotted action
-Original Redfield 40X (marked) base with 4 screw 1-64 stamped low rings
-513T sling swivels
-Original Aluminum Butt Plate fitted to the stock
-Silver Hill Stock (30+ hrs of wood removal done. Exterior and inletting. Over 1/2 inch of overall circumference removed from the end off the forend to the receiver and 1/4" removed from the receiver to the buttplate). Receiver bedded with Basonite as they were done in the 60's. Receiver had to be bedded in order for it to be shootable.
Overall t came out beautiful.
Have another just about finished. Same specs as above except will be in an original Vietnam M700 take off/return stock and the Green contract Redfield.
Pics of the build in progress...
As close as it can get to the real deal! How does it shoot? Is this one of the barrel the Chandler's had?
Here is one of the M700 I had built this last fall by Ssgt. Hahn at PWS....Picked it up from him in Feb. Came out beautiful. Yes the parkerizing on the receiver is a little darker than the original take off barrel. The darkness is enhanced a little in the picture by shadows and lighting. Not as dark as it appears in the pic. It was originally built with the Green contract scope (which has a pretty interesting and cool story about it in its self) but I removed it for another build that is just about complete as well. Replaced it with the black satin gen2. Picked up the original black satin Gen2 in a little bartering/horse trading from a good friend and Hide member.
-Original Black Satin Gen2 Redfield Acu Range 3X9 (with tombstone)
-Original M700 take off barrel date stamp Oct. 66
-Six Digit Clip slotted action
-Original Redfield 40X (marked) base with 4 screw 1-64 stamped low rings
-513T sling swivels
-Original Aluminum Butt Plate fitted to the stock
-Silver Hill Stock (30+ hrs of wood removal done. Exterior and inletting. Over 1/2 inch of overall circumference removed from the end off the forend to the receiver and 1/4" removed from the receiver to the buttplate). Receiver bedded with Basonite as they were done in the 60's. Receiver had to be bedded in order for it to be shootable.
Overall t came out beautiful.
Have another just about finished. Same specs as above except will be in an original Vietnam M700 take off/return stock and the Green contract Redfield.
Pics of the build in progress...
I do have a question. I also have a Silverhill stock and I noticed yours has a brass pin. Did you install this yourself?
thanks
usmchog....I did install it myself. I cant remember the diameter bar stock I bought but I do remember I had to by a 3' section for 2" piece...lol.
Later realizing, that if your just going for aesthetics and want to save money, you can get get creative by just looking through the brass picture hanging hardware section of any hardware store.
Good luck with your Silverhill. Wish there was someone else making them. Their customer service was great but I personally think their M700 rep. stock is far from what is advertised. The amount of wood I removed from it with a hand plain was ridiculous.
Later realizing, that if your just going for aesthetics and want to save money, you can get get creative by just looking through the brass picture hanging hardware section of any hardware store.
Good luck with your Silverhill. Wish there was someone else making them. Their customer service was great but I personally think their M700 rep. stock is far from what is advertised. The amount of wood I removed from it with a hand plain was ridiculous.
Hey Mesca, Thanks! It is from the same batch that was purchased from the same estate auction but this particular one didn't come from Chandler. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet. The weather in Lexington as well as being deployed has hampered my shooting over this past winter and spring. I have 4 builds I need to shoot and zero still. Ill keep you posted.
Ssgt Hahn shot it in the test shed at PWS and said it was shooting just over a min. Ill run some different ammo through it and see what I can get out of it.
Didnt have my expectations real high as the barrel is over 40yrs old. Although according Hahn, after trimming back the barrel, fitting everything, truing the bolt face and lapping it in, he said it shot batter than he expected.
Ssgt Hahn shot it in the test shed at PWS and said it was shooting just over a min. Ill run some different ammo through it and see what I can get out of it.
Didnt have my expectations real high as the barrel is over 40yrs old. Although according Hahn, after trimming back the barrel, fitting everything, truing the bolt face and lapping it in, he said it shot batter than he expected.
Here is one of the M700 I had built this last fall by Ssgt. Hahn at PWS....Picked it up from him in Feb. Came out beautiful. Yes the parkerizing on the receiver is a little darker than the original take off barrel. The darkness is enhanced a little in the picture by shadows and lighting. Not as dark as it appears in the pic. It was originally built with the Green contract scope (which has a pretty interesting and cool story about it in its self) but I removed it for another build that is just about complete as well. Replaced it with the black satin gen2. Picked up the original black satin Gen2 in a little bartering/horse trading from a good friend and Hide member.
-Original Black Satin Gen2 Redfield Acu Range 3X9 (with tombstone)
-Original M700 take off barrel date stamp Oct. 66
-Six Digit Clip slotted action
-Original Redfield 40X (marked) base with 4 screw 1-64 stamped low rings
-513T sling swivels
-Original Aluminum Butt Plate fitted to the stock
-Silver Hill Stock (30+ hrs of wood removal done. Exterior and inletting. Over 1/2 inch of overall circumference removed from the end off the forend to the receiver and 1/4" removed from the receiver to the buttplate). Receiver bedded with Basonite as they were done in the 60's. Receiver had to be bedded in order for it to be shootable.
Overall t came out beautiful.
Have another just about finished. Same specs as above except will be in an original Vietnam M700 take off/return stock and the Green contract Redfield.
Pics of the build in progress...
Send those turret caps to me I'll anodize them for you.
Hey Toki, thanks man, buy you already did them for me...last fall. They are actually in a tupperware bowl sitting in the sun back home.
I will post before and after pics when I get back to the states.
I will post before and after pics when I get back to the states.
Very nice... and I even like the large sized photos!
photos!Here is one of the M700 I had built this last fall by Ssgt. Hahn at PWS....Picked it up from him in Feb. Came out beautiful. Yes the parkerizing on the receiver is a little darker than the original take off barrel. The darkness is enhanced a little in the picture by shadows and lighting. Not as dark as it appears in the pic. It was originally built with the Green contract scope (which has a pretty interesting and cool story about it in its self) but I removed it for another build that is just about complete as well. Replaced it with the black satin gen2. Picked up the original black satin Gen2 in a little bartering/horse trading from a good friend and Hide member.
-Original Black Satin Gen2 Redfield Acu Range 3X9 (with tombstone)
-Original M700 take off barrel date stamp Oct. 66
-Six Digit Clip slotted action
-Original Redfield 40X (marked) base with 4 screw 1-64 stamped low rings
-513T sling swivels
-Original Aluminum Butt Plate fitted to the stock
-Silver Hill Stock (30+ hrs of wood removal done. Exterior and inletting. Over 1/2 inch of overall circumference removed from the end off the forend to the receiver and 1/4" removed from the receiver to the buttplate). Receiver bedded with Basonite as they were done in the 60's. Receiver had to be bedded in order for it to be shootable.
Overall t came out beautiful.
I'm starting to agree regarding the stock inletting. I've built two flintlocks from scratch which require a huge amount of inletting, but Rem. 700 receivers aren't any mystery. If a stock maker can get it to 95%, they should be able to finish the last 5%.
I actually have some brass welding rods which looks very close to the correct diameter for the stock pins. Maybe they'll work?
All on account of you my friend (bolt_trash)....Thank you for your patience and assistance...lololol
Very nice... and I even like the large sized
Yep, greatly appreciated sir!!! Came out great...A little darker than the rest of the scope but still look great. Gonna see if the sun will bleach them at all. If not. Not a big deal. Great work!!!!!
"THE PASSING OF COL. WALTER WALSH TODAY...106YRS OLD", .....OUR CORP. AND NATION HAS LOST ANOTHER.....
Our Corp. is in Mourning this day.... Col. Walter Walsh along with others was also instrumental in the development of the very first "adopted" M700/40 and was a pillar within the USMC sniper community throughout the Vietnam war and after and was one of the most decorated USMC competition shooters to date. He was also one of the the highest recognized Federal Agents of his time. His dedication to the service of our country can not be repaid in words. May our thoughts go out to his son Walter Walsh Jr. (who I had the pleasure of meeting last year at the Vintage Sniper Rifle match in Quantico) and the rest of his surviving family....Our country is in morning at the lost of another great Warrior....May you now Rest Peacefully sir. Our young Warriors will take it from here!
Semper Fi!!
Our Corp. is in Mourning this day.... Col. Walter Walsh along with others was also instrumental in the development of the very first "adopted" M700/40 and was a pillar within the USMC sniper community throughout the Vietnam war and after and was one of the most decorated USMC competition shooters to date. He was also one of the the highest recognized Federal Agents of his time. His dedication to the service of our country can not be repaid in words. May our thoughts go out to his son Walter Walsh Jr. (who I had the pleasure of meeting last year at the Vintage Sniper Rifle match in Quantico) and the rest of his surviving family....Our country is in morning at the lost of another great Warrior....May you now Rest Peacefully sir. Our young Warriors will take it from here!
Semper Fi!!
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Thats all it is is bass stock, so Im sure it will......Just remember to measure twice and drill once...lolol....I only drilled approx. 3/4 of the way. Measured the distance I wanted to drill then wrapped the drill bit with a piece of tape so that I knew exactly where to stop.
Lightly taped the brass dowl in until it stopped. Cut the dowl with about 1/32 of extra sticking out then lightly sanded it down with a Dremel tool then finished it off with a fine emery paper of a fine grit sand comparable.....Whala! lol
Lightly taped the brass dowl in until it stopped. Cut the dowl with about 1/32 of extra sticking out then lightly sanded it down with a Dremel tool then finished it off with a fine emery paper of a fine grit sand comparable.....Whala! lol
D
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Christ, he lived to be 106. R.I.P. Well, in his honor I was out shooting the system out to 600 yards with 10-15 mph cross wind. It is sort of difficult at 600 yards to keep it under a few moa with just a cross hair to work with lol. I'm sure he would have told me to pay attention to the fundamentals.
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Web Slings...
Is it just me, or are the cotton web slings looking on the short side?
Unless I'm grossly mistaken, earlier and historical photographs showed the compression buckle/clamp and 'figure eight' length adjustment buckle, virtually touching each other, above the trigger guard, when the sling was tightened, for storage.
Were there different lengths for the Garand' web sling? I do know that the web sling for the BAR was longer, but I've not seen anything, specifically, about their use on the M40.
Commence!
Is it just me, or are the cotton web slings looking on the short side?
Unless I'm grossly mistaken, earlier and historical photographs showed the compression buckle/clamp and 'figure eight' length adjustment buckle, virtually touching each other, above the trigger guard, when the sling was tightened, for storage.
Were there different lengths for the Garand' web sling? I do know that the web sling for the BAR was longer, but I've not seen anything, specifically, about their use on the M40.
Commence!
The Chandlers (Iron Brigade Armory) have a genuine M40 stock for sale. 1500$. Take a look at the finish, exact same 'varnish' type as on my stock.
To all those making M40 clones... I'm thinking the oil/satin finish might not be right. Every genuine stock we saw have a varnish glossy finish. Its the impregnation mentionned in Senich's book.
To all those making M40 clones... I'm thinking the oil/satin finish might not be right. Every genuine stock we saw have a varnish glossy finish. Its the impregnation mentionned in Senich's book.
I have both an original cotton sling and the nylon sling. I will compare both and let me know my findings. I dont believe there were different lengths for the Garand sling... Might be wrong though.
Hey Mesca, there is "no" doubt that the the oil finished stocks are they way they were manufactured and originally sent to the Corp. There is enough substantiated, documented as well as first hand account information to support that they were all flat oil finished when originally shipped to vietnam per original USMC contract requirements. Any varnishing, painting or attempting to seal/water proof the stock was done in the field once it was sent down range.
The Chandlers (Iron Brigade Armory) have a genuine M40 stock for sale. 1500$. Take a look at the finish, exact same 'varnish' type as on my stock.
To all those making M40 clones... I'm thinking the oil/satin finish might not be right. Every genuine stock we saw have a varnish glossy finish. Its the impregnation mentionned in Senich's book.
Agree. What I meant to say, is that people doing clones should try to replicate the varnish type finish. Epoxy impregnation was highly recommended and I believe many M40 rifles were in fact, re-finished.
Depends if building a out-of-the-shop clone, or a field rifle...
