Please ignore these “experts “ Orkan, your expertise is very valuable for me. Don’t make them stop you.
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As i'm probably one of the 'experts' that you are referring to I'd just like to reiterate that I think @orkan 's posts are very, very informative and comprehensive. Discussing measurement etiquette should be regarded as additional information rather than a detraction.
Simply put - if he didn't shoot as well as he does the error margin would be irrelevant.
I took no offense to you @barronian nor you @Mordamer. The discussion isn't a detraction so much as it is not of much value without any functional conclusion. Not much I can do to "prove" my groups other than what I have already done. It does suck the fun out of it a bit, and you're right... since no one questioned me until I took the top slot. I guess it's not as big a deal when I'm in 2nd, 3rd, or 5th place. lol Either way, it's not as if its super easy to measure thousandths while lining up a caliper with your eyeball. I've gone to as great a lengths as I care to go in providing documentation and "proof" of the rifles capability.
Actually with sophisticated imaging equipment it easy to get accurate measurements of the groups. For example the group in the above photo that is in post # 735 that is marked as .119" is actually .162". In any case the groups are remarkable! I have a Rim X coming from Keystone with Bartlien 22" M24 and hope it will shoot within 15% of what Orkan had demonstrated! Thanks for sharing the information Orkan as it's been tremendously helpful and was one of the primary drivers that caused me to pop for a new rifle! Thanks!
I've requested @jbell remove me from the 6x5, and I won't be submitting another one. Any groups I post in the future, I'll try diligently to not speak about group size or accuracy scoring. You can measure them yourselves. 
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It doesn't bother me at all. I'm in this sport to help OTHER people shoot better. Helping others shoot better is where I get my satisfaction. If I got satisfaction from "beating" others... I'd go compete, yet I don't. I did once upon a time, and beating people felt worse than losing to them. People definitely treated me worse when I won. So I don't, and I won't. I don't like what competition does to people, so I sure as hell will not fall victim to that behavior. My group sizes are called into question, so there won't be any more group sizes shared by me, and no more questions about it.
It's not about what I can do at Primal Rights that matters... it's about what our content, our techniques, our rifles, and our products can help OTHER people do. That's what matters to me.
Freebore,don't forget to share your result here with good ole stuff.I like to know how your barrel shoot too!
Orkan,we need you man! keep it up i ask you please do more reports of your results and post here.
I don't have a way to post pics of the targets, but the better ammo was only marginally better than the cheap stuff I already tried.
I shot 6x5's of each of the ammo below with the average next to them, FYI.
SK PISTOL MATCH .521 AVG
SK FLATNOSE TARGET .688 AVG
SK PISTOL MATCH SPECIAL .646 AVG
SK RIFLE MATCH .526 AVG
SK FLATNOSE MATCH .637 AVG
SK LONG RANGE .545 AVG
LAPUA PISTOL KING .717 AVG
LAPUA CENTER X .510 AVG
LAPUA MIDAS PLUS .675 AVG
ELEY TARGET .753 AVG
ELEY CLUB .610 AVG
ELEY SEMI AUTO BENCHREST PRECISION .695 AVG
ELEY TEAM .722 AVG
I shot 6x5's of each of the ammo below with the average next to them, FYI.
SK PISTOL MATCH .521 AVG
SK FLATNOSE TARGET .688 AVG
SK PISTOL MATCH SPECIAL .646 AVG
SK RIFLE MATCH .526 AVG
SK FLATNOSE MATCH .637 AVG
SK LONG RANGE .545 AVG
LAPUA PISTOL KING .717 AVG
LAPUA CENTER X .510 AVG
LAPUA MIDAS PLUS .675 AVG
ELEY TARGET .753 AVG
ELEY CLUB .610 AVG
ELEY SEMI AUTO BENCHREST PRECISION .695 AVG
ELEY TEAM .722 AVG
What are you rifle specs?
Stock?
Trigger?
Scope?
Rings?
Bipod and rear bag?
From a bench?
Prone?
Whats your experience shooting tiny 22lr groups?
Weather conditions?
As much as everyone thinks they are gonna buy a barrel and shoot 6x5's in the .1's and .2's consistently like we have been posting, thats just not reality. There is a LOT more that goes into it. Proper chassis or bedded stock... Ive spent 10's of thousands on lot after lot of ammo. Scope with the proper reticle to ensure you hold the exact same spot every time. Extremely stable shooting position. Prone has always been more consistent than from a bench for me. While some are able to do it with heavier, very light trigger pull weight helped. Im set at 6oz on my TacSport Pro 2 stage.
How many lots of each ammo have you tested as well?
Seeing your targets would help as well. You can upload them to IMGUR and post the links like the rest of us do.
I shot 6x10's and my avgs were easily half of what youre reporting your 6x5's avg. Id suspect you have other factors compounding those results since your avg's are consistent across the board....
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This is why I measure center to center. It eliminates all the measuring errors of a smudge mark and the arbitrary subtraction number. Of course this only works if your eye can locate the center of a hole. These are the groups I get with my T1x with IBI barrel with the Win 52D chamber and the 457 with IBI barrel that has the Calfee 4 chamber. Only reason I measured in decimals was because someone had asked me to.
Rim X action.
Timney Calvin Elite 2 stage flat trigger adjusted to 8 oz. first stage and 12 oz. second stage.
MPA Hybrid chassis with bi-pod spigot and bag rider, action torqued to 65 in/lb in chassis.
KSA GM barrel 20" M-24 contour (your chamber) torqued to 45 ft/lb on action.
Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18X44 with TMR reticle in Leupold Mark 4 rings on 30 moa Zermatt base.
Shooting prone from the bi-pod and rear squeze bag.
Weather conditions were ideal both days I tested, 70 degrees, no wind, fairly low humidity.
I am not a professional shooter, but I have a good amount of experience with prone shooting and am pretty decent.
I shoot monthly local matches (centerfire) 200 yards out to a mile and usually place in the top 3 out of 50 or so shooters, sometimes I win. I am not a competitor, only shoot to improve my previous scores. I punch lots of paper and reload for everything I own for consistency and personal enjoyment.
I own a couple other rimfire rifles I dink around with punching paper mainly at 50 yards and 5 shot groups. My Tikka T1X set up almost identical to my Rim-X and a pretty bone stock CZ 457 SR with a trigger adjustment. The Tikka is regularly in the .3's with it's preferred ammo and the CZ in the .4's. I shoot suppressed and own several rimfire cans. I was shooting the TBAC 22 takedown for the testing with the KSA GM barrel. Also have a Dead Air Mask, Blackhawk Pulse, OSS Rad22, and an AAC Halcyon. The TBAC usually tightens up my groups, I thought about this while testing and fired a few groups without the can and like normal they seemed to open up a little, or stayed the same, without the can the groups certainly did not improve.
I don't own a camera or a phone that can take pictures to upload for you, sorry I am adverse to embracing the technology I guess.
Any advice you could give, I will take, I am here to learn from others what ever I can.
Thanks!
please keep doing the decimals - i for one appreciate it
They look a bit odd though ? for example the last plate has a 1/2" or 0.466" is this an incorrect translation of the 1/2" or is the 0.466 the correct measurement and the 1/2" is just the closest fractional equivalent ? I don't use fractions so i don't know what is "normal practice" for example would it be "unusual" to write 30/64 ? Or would this be "sniffed at" the same way as displaying 5 decimals would ?
221, you may find joy with much less action screw torque. Ammo is a Quest. You must sort by lot #. clean between brands, or burn the first 20 when changing. Some surveyor tape on a coat hanger may show something. Rule out a burr in chamber or crown if nothing else comes together. Presume scope is good. You can clearly shoot, so doubt operator error. Pic of your groups would help, as Padom stated
I got my lefty Rim-X and 20" Green Mountain Keystone barrel assembled and tested yesterday and today. The gun shoots quite good with SK+ and Lapua Center-X, however I am having a terrible time with ejection issues. I adjusted the mag properly before ever installing the barrel. The mags had almost no vertical play once latched in.
The problem existed from the first magazine of ammo ever run through the gun. It feeds rounds fine, but upon extraction the empty case is knocked out of the bolt nose by the next rounds nose sticking up out of the magazine. The case is knocked out of the bolt nose before it ever reaches the ejector so half the time it flops out the side of the action and the other have it stays in the action. I have taken everything on the bolt nose apart, cleaned it, and re-assembled. I adjusted the magazine to have slightly more vertical play and still no joy. It appears to me that my extractor is just not holding the case rim as tight as it should. If I slide a case up into the bolt face and press it tightly into the extractor it is still quite easy to pull the round out of the bolt nose. I'll call Zermatt on Monday. I'm sure they'll take care of it. I am hoping the extractor is just a bit out of spec and I just need a new one.
I did manage to kill a Prairie dog with it at 376 yards with SK+ in a 15 MPH switchy wind. The vertical dispersion at that distance was pretty incredibly small, but I was having about a 4 mil shift in windage with different gusts. I hit several past 300 yards, but only got one in the head to keep him above ground for a picture. Groups at 100 yards with SK+ were about 1 MOA and it was pretty terrible conditions.
The problem existed from the first magazine of ammo ever run through the gun. It feeds rounds fine, but upon extraction the empty case is knocked out of the bolt nose by the next rounds nose sticking up out of the magazine. The case is knocked out of the bolt nose before it ever reaches the ejector so half the time it flops out the side of the action and the other have it stays in the action. I have taken everything on the bolt nose apart, cleaned it, and re-assembled. I adjusted the magazine to have slightly more vertical play and still no joy. It appears to me that my extractor is just not holding the case rim as tight as it should. If I slide a case up into the bolt face and press it tightly into the extractor it is still quite easy to pull the round out of the bolt nose. I'll call Zermatt on Monday. I'm sure they'll take care of it. I am hoping the extractor is just a bit out of spec and I just need a new one.
I did manage to kill a Prairie dog with it at 376 yards with SK+ in a 15 MPH switchy wind. The vertical dispersion at that distance was pretty incredibly small, but I was having about a 4 mil shift in windage with different gusts. I hit several past 300 yards, but only got one in the head to keep him above ground for a picture. Groups at 100 yards with SK+ were about 1 MOA and it was pretty terrible conditions.
Spent some time with some Lapua X-act at 50yds. Very gusty winds, but I did what I could.
Looks like your lot of RWS R50 shoots tighter. And the RWS is probably cheaper than lapua x-actSpent some time with some Lapua X-act at 50yds. Very gusty winds, but I did what I could.
Three new lot numbers of R50 are showing some promise. Will need to wait for a calm day. Maybe I'll get one this year sometime.
Alright here is the link to the Group Buy for the first Bartlein Carbon Fiber 22LR RimX prefits out there. They do not sell 22LR Carbon fiber barrels now so you want one, this is the way.
Group Buys - Bartlein Carbon Fiber 22LR RimX Prefits
Alright guys, here is what you've been asking for. Bartlein RimX 22LR carbon fiber prefits. Bartlein just released their carbon fiber barrels. They are not currently selling carbon wrapped 22LR blanks/barrels but agreed to do a run for me for all you guys requesting them. We need a minimum...www.snipershide.com
Need one more taker to get this order going . . .
Is that all R-50? By chance are you selling any?Three new lot numbers of R50 are showing some promise. Will need to wait for a calm day. Maybe I'll get one this year sometime.
Talked to Ray and Aaron at Zermatt and they helped me figure out my ejection problem. It was caused by the nose of the tensioner being slightly too long and forcing the case out of the extractor too early. 30 seconds of stoning fixed it. Gun runs well now.
Shot this 10 shot group today at 50 yards with SK standard plus.
I have a challenge for @orkan :
Shoot a 10 shot group at 100 yards with all the shots inside the 1/2" inner circle on your targets. The edges of the holes can brake the circle, but the bullet hole needs to be at least 1/2 in the circle. Same as my picture here, but do it at 100.
Shot this 10 shot group today at 50 yards with SK standard plus.
I have a challenge for @orkan :
Shoot a 10 shot group at 100 yards with all the shots inside the 1/2" inner circle on your targets. The edges of the holes can brake the circle, but the bullet hole needs to be at least 1/2 in the circle. Same as my picture here, but do it at 100.
Yes, that is all R-50. We will be carrying Lapua Center-X, Midas+, and Polar Biathlon as well as RWS R50 which will be made available for purchase exclusively to Primal Rights customers that have purchased a TS Customs RimX barreled action or complete rifle. However, what you're seeing there is mostly my personal supply for the year. I'll no doubt have to part with a case or two of it as favors are called in... but most will be fired by me in my own rifles over the next year or so. Between that RWS, and the half dozen or so cases of Lapua I have... I should be set for a while.
@Mordamer If I ever get a day where the wind lays down even a little bit... I may give it a go. I don't much care for 100yd 22lr, as its frustrating enough at 50yds.
Does anyone have any recommendations for stock/chassis options for southpaws? I already have an MPA that my barreled action will start life in. I really like the MDT offerings and their price point, but they leave us lefties out in the cold.
I was going to say the same thing. MDT's chassis are left or right hand. Except for the 2 recently released chassis... but in time Im sure they will be as well.
Nope that was ultramatch UM22... I have several.boxes stamped R50 on the box tab and find random rws headstamps throughout the brick... but as far as I know UM22 is discontinued
Depends entirely on when you purchased the federal. Even UM22 was never all "really" R50... but it was made by RWS. This is the issue with re-branding. There's always this big shroud of secrecy and misinformation that surrounds it. This makes it difficult to ever really know what you've got. Then the factory finds it more financially agreeable to go with someone else, and you end up with totally different ammo in the exact same box you've always known. This same thing happened with wolf recently. Once upon a time it was fantastic SK ammo. Now it's who-knows-what grade eley ammo.
Bottom line: It's better to buy from the big 3, in their branded boxes... unless you stumble into a known quality in large quantity. Nothing wrong with buying several cases at a time of any brand or re-brand if you can get enough of it at once to matter. Buying just a brick or two, is generally not a good idea... because in the chance it is really good, you'll be stuck not finding any more.
If it is a challenge then we need to see the video, orkan and padom show it... could be 25 yards in a vice lolTalked to Ray and Aaron at Zermatt and they helped me figure out my ejection problem. It was caused by the nose of the tensioner being slightly too long and forcing the case out of the extractor too early. 30 seconds of stoning fixed it. Gun runs well now.
Shot this 10 shot group today at 50 yards with SK standard plus.
I have a challenge for @orkan :
Shoot a 10 shot group at 100 yards with all the shots inside the 1/2" inner circle on your targets. The edges of the holes can brake the circle, but the bullet hole needs to be at least 1/2 in the circle. Same as my picture here, but do it at 100.
View attachment 7342090
TT Diamonds work fine. I had ONE individual trigger misbehaving. It eventually came out of it and started working fine, and replacements have since worked fine.
Mine is in the mail, and I can't wait to shoot it. I loved the one I shot, and Zermatt is a fairly local company which is a huge plus.
Orkan,is good i went to TT diamond on mine and like you said it works fine but works excellent on my needs. Folks,just want to share my 2nd RIM-X just landed in the hand of my tender loving hot and very care sexy FFL. and did a transfer works.She ask me this time if she can shoot my rim when time permit and i said YES! now i know why this called rimx i feel guilt inside my soul.
Trigger: I order BnA tacsports pro 2stage tune by luke at BC flat trigger/low sears/tune for my liking.Hope this will works well for me hand cross!and finger cross ughh!
Trigger: I order BnA tacsports pro 2stage tune by luke at BC flat trigger/low sears/tune for my liking.Hope this will works well for me hand cross!and finger cross ughh!
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I was one of those that had an issue. To be clear, I am not afraid to come on here an be critical. I just like to go to the company first and troubleshoot it with them first before posting on internet. I had rounds that would occasionally not eject. I called Zermatt and spoke with Ray and had a new tensioner in my hands the next day which solved the issue.
Moral of the story, some have had and will continue to have issues with a brand new product. If you do call Zermatt and they will take care of you.
For the record I was also an early adopter with the Vudoo and had similar issues early on. Their customer support was also exceptional. Great time to be getting into the rimfire game with great products and great companies.
Have TriggerTech Diamonds in both RimX and Vudoo and no issues
Agree 100% Just wanted to get final resolution before posting anything
Here's a video of the 50yd Krieger ammo test. I did speed up the video so its not 2hr real time... Next up will be 100yd with the Krieger then on to the last barrel, the Lilja. This has been a really fun review. The hard part will be deciding which barrel or two Ill be keeping...
Keystone just posted their Krieger RimX sale. Now till July 4th
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