As a change of pace, I think it would be fun to watch how many of the tiny red dots you could take out instead of shooting groups every time.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
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As a change of pace, I think it would be fun to watch how many of the tiny red dots you could take out instead of shooting groups every time.
Just a suggestion.
Well then that wouldn't be a apples to apples test to all the previous barrels tested....once the review and testing is over then sure. Not hard. Thats why I have elevation high or it takes the dot right off the paper then point of aim is gone
Well, in that case, I'll wait for you to shoot the red dots when the tests are over.
Actually, I shoot similar-sized orange dots at 50 with my Joe Chacon build.
Hence the reason for the suggestion you do it, lots of fun!
The red dots appears to be .250" and the orange squares appear to be .500" across the flats. I've been studying this carefully and using digital imaging equipment you can break down the individual groups into pixels. This allows conformation of the actual size of the groups. I've purchased a Bartlein barrel/ Rim X action based on these results although the published #'s don't necessarily always represent the accurate group sizes.
I always find it hilarious guys make statements like appears or I think having no idea what they are truly talking about then make definitive statements like your groups aren't what you say..
Youre wrong on your assumptions of the size of those stickers, and your "imaging equipment" is only as good as the image taken. Paper being 100% flat, camera being 100% square to the image, but you knew that right? You crack me up.
Those group sizes are 100% as accurate as a Mitotyo can be held by a human on what the hole edge appears minus .223 which is the diameter used by AB, Kestrel, JBM and any other ballistic app for 22LR.
I, for one, have trouble with imaging equipment. Half the time I try to take a photo with my smartphone, I end up taking a video. Go figure.
Padom, the work you have done here is incredible! So much so that it has inspired me to build a $4K .22LR based on your test results! These comments are not meant to be dis-respectable. The method of measuring the outside lead smudges to determine group size is flawed. Variables like the paper type can have a huge impact on the result. Below are two photos of the same .22LR bullet hole (S&K Long range) and a Mitutoya caliper with the jaws just outside the lead smudge marks. Note that the first photo show the measurement of .1940" (nearly 3/100" under size) and the second photo is simply a close up of jaws and the bullet hole of the same shot. Note that the paper type is from the National Target Company. I have competed in three position and prone NRA/ CMP and international shooting matches for over three decades and this has been an issue in these shooting disciplines so scoring gauges and scoring plugs are commonly used on close to the line shots.
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You're splitting hairs here. The way I and 99.9999% of the rest of people here and anywhere else is consistent. Nobody is using 50x magnification to go oh damn your so far off your calipers are .003" off from the actual edge. We arent posting these results for $10 million prize...
If you want to eliminate using calipers, subMOA is a free app or ballistic X is inexpensive for smart phones. You have to learn the icons but then it's pretty easy to use. I personally think calipers are good enough for what we do, just measure outside of ring to inside of ring and you have your center to center measurement. Or measure c-t-c to directly with your calipers, It's not rocket science. Like Padom said, no prizes involved, so why question the shooter, the visual group should speak for itself. I'm just amazed at the accuracy of these 22lr groups. It's a great time to be shooting rimfire these days!
I have OnTarget and been using it for years for everything except 22lr.. the 223 ring is way bigger then a single bullet hole so its more accurate to use calipers for me vs trying to decide with the app where the center is.. its all good enough though.
The fact that you post photos and videos online showing the results is awesome and provides all the conformation that is needed. These visuals provide a great summary of the overall accuracy. BTW that's .030" ( 3/100's) in the above photos not .003" (3/1000's). The accuracy of these things are incredible. Also your using 20" barrels in all of your tests. Do you have any recommendations on optimal barrel length for accuracy?
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@One1Bravo. What height m10's are those? Trying to figure out what I can get away with. Will be running a very similar setup on my rimx build. Attempting to get all the pieces ordered up. Thanks!
Well this Krieger just shot lights out @ 100yd. Best results by a good bit of all the barrels tested so far @ 100yds and with CenterX. The 10x5 of 0.656" shows how consistent the results were. It also was very close to my previous best 100yd 6x5's with a second lot of CenterX and the 3rd lot shot a respectable 0.75" 6x5.
Better get your orders in, Keystone Krieger sale ends July 4th!
1 barrel left to test, will screw the Lilja on tomorrow and test next week.
Better get your orders in, Keystone Krieger sale ends July 4th!
1 barrel left to test, will screw the Lilja on tomorrow and test next week.
Seems to be all over the board on this subject.
Proof Research originally said 65-85FT/LB, then later they corrected and said 50-60FT/LB.
Keystone accuracy said manufacturer's specs were 50-70FT/LB.
My action didn't like anything over 50FT/LB as the bolt became hard to close. I think it is a manufacturing tolerance thing maybe?
Curious to know what Padom and Orkan are using for torque with the groups they are shooting.
In my profession I use electronic torque wrenches almost on a daily basis. On my RimX with keystone barrel I didn’t use one at all because when I installed the barrel to about 30-40 ft/lb with a wrench it is tight. It will not move anymore if I apply more torque if this makes any sense. The machining on both items is just perfect and snug is snug.....
Reubenski actually told me something similar when I asked the same question before I installed my barrel.
Also have in mind that barrels not threaded by keystone may fit / behave differently when tightened.
Reubenski actually told me something similar when I asked the same question before I installed my barrel.
Also have in mind that barrels not threaded by keystone may fit / behave differently when tightened.
Any reasons I shouldn’t be able to do it myself with my barrel vice and a wheeler Rem 700 action wrench ?
I read some post of him he use 65 ft./lbs. torque for all the barrel in his test.......PADOM!
Every barrel in my review/testing is torqued to 65FT/LB
I haven't torqued a single chassis bolt in my entire review. I install them by hand with a T Allen wrench till snug then another 1/4 turn.
I can’t say what wrenches you can and cannot use, but in listening to Ray @ Zermatt on the PRM podcast , don’t remove the ejector from the action when torquing barrels. The lug engagement ( or lack there of)forward of the ejection port is not where you want to put your rear entry action wrench.
I had taken my ejector off prior to hearing the podcast or having my barrel and dry fit my own action wrench. It was very loose Ahead of the port - as designed, but unbeknownst to me at the time.
Ray also mentioned running barrels everywhere from hand tight to 25 to 40 ft lbs.
Good info.guys. That is the kind of ZERMATT ACTION WRENCH AM USING from the above post.That wrench set half way of the action and does not set further more forward AND AM WORRIED ABOUT THAT IF i should go more than hand tight.
IS REMINGTON 700 WRENCH KEYSTONE IS TALKING they mean WHEELER ACTION WRENCH FOR 700? OR ANY PICTURE FOR THE REMINGTON 700 WRENCH?
IS REMINGTON 700 WRENCH KEYSTONE IS TALKING they mean WHEELER ACTION WRENCH FOR 700? OR ANY PICTURE FOR THE REMINGTON 700 WRENCH?
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I have decided that I will go the RimX route and am looking at the Keystone Accuracy special with the Krieger barrel for $1,629. I have only bought complete rifles in the past and wondering if this special is a good price. How much am I saving instead of buying the action now and waiting on buying the barrel later.
The action is $1150. Your cost for the barrel & installation is $479. Looking at their standard pricing at https://keystoneaccuracy.com/services2/, the barrel is normally $575. The savings is $96, or about 16% off the barrel cost, but also includes installation. There is also value in buying the full barreled action and having one source accountable for it. And Keystone is a good shop. They communicate well with customers, give information as best as they can regarding dates and estimates, stand behind their commitments, and are interested in customers & customer satisfaction. Though that should be standard, there are sadly others out there who fail in a number of these areas.
reubenski,
What contour and length did you go with on your Shilen? I have a Shilen 4 groove ratchet in a heavy palma that should finish around 26". I'm thinking about ordering a RimX to put it on. The RimX sure looks like a well thought out rig. Decisions, decisions......
real curious to hear how this barrel shoots.
I just ordered the reamer today and still
looking at barrels but the word is hard to beat the shilen ratchet.
Just tried my new RimX on my old MDT HS3 beater. Even with playing with the magazine adjustment tab I had a lot of issues feeding and ejecting. I actually had a full blown live round stuck in the chamber - couldn't eject, deformed rim.
It does seems like there is a bit of vertical play with the magazine - could it cause both issues ? I don't see any ways to remove that upward play except getting a new stock ...
It does seems like there is a bit of vertical play with the magazine - could it cause both issues ? I don't see any ways to remove that upward play except getting a new stock ...
Huh? The bolt release? My bolt release works like any other side bolt release.... Not hard at all. My mags work just great in 3 chassis here...XLR Envy, MDT ACC, MDT XRS...sounds like you have a chassis issue going on...
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