Rifle Scopes SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

#1,501
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I've got a very different opinion overall. I will keep it entirely cordial, honest and professional. I hope the discussion can continue. It may be a valuable one for many parties here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What you, and others fail to realize is, its not just "one company" that gets affected by your bad behavior. Many other companies with similar ideas, who might never run into a delay read this stuff and walk away. Every year I talk to big companies that tell me, "the members of the forum are too unkind to business" and they don't want to do business with people on places like this, the internet is too unruly to trust.</div></div>

I see that point yet honest and service/customer oriented companies with the time and commitment to earn peoples business have absolutely nothing to fear. I don't think anyone here was unkind nor unfair to SWFA in any way. In fact, I'd like to see the references, in context, to where that happened.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're anonymously posting, bashing, attacking, so why should they step up. Sure they would like too, but they see this and immediately change their mind.</div></div>

That is the nature of the beast in a majority of the digital world. It can be both a blessing and a curse. Again it is 100% up to companies to have an appropriate business strategy for the world in which they do business. Online and in this generation things move quick. Why are Facebook and Twitter so popular and successful (immediacy is one answer)? Again, sleep in the bed you make. You want to use social media, blogging and forums to do business you should accept that climate. How is that not just painfully obvious?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One mistake and you pounce, and they absolutely see it.</div></div>

Again, I don't see any folks here being unfair to them. Some have been more patient than others but I disagree that this was the essential nature of forums response. Again, simple, honest and semi-periodic 5 minute updates would have prevented the whole mess. Also, it's pretty clear they made mistake after mistake. You are being far too kind with that point of view.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Trust me on this, people call, talk about offering the membership a deal on a new offering and I tell them straight up not too. I say it's not worth it, the crowd is too fickle and one big mouth and it all goes south. In some cases they may have 200 units in their hand... I still advise them to consider other outlets, because I don't want to sell them on your business only to have it turn against them and me.</div></div>

Obviously your decision. You are running a business as well. I really don't have much of on an opinion on this and certainly wouldn't presume to be able to give you any advise.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You only hurt each other, the power of this place could have netting you access unlike most would not believe, but you constantly piss on the shoes of people doing their best with no remorse. Why because you can hide behind a pseudonym, there is personal responsibility.</div></div>

Group buys and discounts do not come without benefit for the offering company. I keep hearing this emphasis on such one sided benefits and it just is not the whole picture. Businesses rarely, if ever, sell at loss. Similarly what they miss in price they will make up in volume (or in speed). They can also gain critical new clients, essential to growing their business. There simply are not deals discussed, offered or not offered that are so amazing that it's all "sacrifice" and "favors" from vendors and all benefit for customers.

I take 100% responsibility for anything I've said about SWFA here. I think all others would as well. I believe this is an overstatement of the reactions here even by the most vocal or critical. Sure there is the issue of anonymity, but again, nature of the beast. I don't feel posting my name, phone number or address has anything to do with this situation. I did call SWFA, tell them my order details, and let them know my thoughts. In short I got nothing but nothing from them. Hence more discussion here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You think you are showing them "truth" and the "right way" but really all you are doing is thinking about yourself, and whether or not you are inconvenienced, stomping your feet like a spoiled child. They didn't update me how and when, "I wanted' so they lose and we'll show them by how much.

Big picture, lots of guys just don't get the big picture. </div></div>

The opinions from members here have spanned a wide "dynamic range". Each of those of us complaining had a different pain or limit point as well. Calling all of us who have voiced concerns and/or complaints childish and selfish is neither fair nor accurate. Frankly, it is not a way to inrgatiate you and the site to all of your members either.

Again putting this back on the customer is just not a fair nor responsible point of view. <span style="font-weight: bold">1 word - COMMUNICATION</span>. No one demanded daily nor even weekly updates. I can pretty well guarantee that a post taking 5 minutes of time from one person at SWFA every 2-3 weeks with a simple honest update would have prevented 99% if not all of this situation. If that is too much to ask then there simply is no reasonable expectation of a normal customer-client relationship.
 
#1,502
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

This is such a load of BS I don't even know where to begin. You've been complaining like a kid that thinks he deserves the world handed to him on a silver platter from the beginning. You're a prime example of what is wrong with our great nation.

I look back at what you've posted... i find a lot of what you've posted is purely complaining about SWFA.

Guys like you can't be satisfied... you'll always find something wrong or something to complain about. You forgot that life is about being grateful. Your life IS NOT THAT BAD, chill out.

You're not happy that you didn't get your $1K scope for $500 fast enough so you tear a company down that tried its best to give people a great deal. A company that put a shit ton on the line to give people a great product for an amazing price. Ya yah... "they made a profit, they had it planned".... what do you expect them to do? Do YOU work for free?

When people ask why SWFA does not do another group buy, i will think back and say to myself, "swamp2"

Don't bother responding directly to me or about me, I just added you to my ignore list.

*EDIT* I'm sorry folks... i edited it to be a little more friendly.... perhaps I was being a little too.... hmm lets say... blatant? </div></div>

There are plenty more here with the same or similar opinion as mine. Don't bother to post to or about me if you can't have a cordial discussion.
 
#1,503
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Everything Lowlight said is true. We are just a bunch of whiny spoiled rotten children waiting for our new toys.

I regret acting like that here.

I have this condition. I don't know if it's an ability or a disability. But I can always see things from both points of view.

swamp2 is right too...
 
#1,504
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you think that I could make hk dave's entire post my new signature or would it be too long? lol </div></div>

Swamp2 would probably whine to a mod that it was taking up to much screen and his finger was getting tired of scrolling. Oh wait, what do you care?
laugh.gif
 
#1,505
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

And predictably, the anonymous school yard bullies come out to play.

Everyone will love their scopes when they eventually arrive and we will have forgotten how long it took and how badly things were handled.

Time heals all.
 
#1,506
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

You simply don't get it,

It is a business and there is more to business than just selling, there are also good customers and bad ones. In my opinion your a clear example of a bad customer.

In my way of thinking, it would be far more beneficial to this board, it's members and the businesses who patronize this place to remove bad customers. Think about your focus here. Removing you, would communicate to everyone that bad customers hurt more than just one side of the equation. That we all can benefit from learning patience, and if things got so bad we can equally pick up the phone and call a company like SWFA. Communication works both ways, they clearly answer the phone. Instead of bitching about them in public hoping they come on and stroke your hair personally. A simple phone call because you have an interest in communication might go a long way.

Instead of bashing, you can be pro active. Then everyone makes out.

You see the group buy and benefitting only SWFA, in fact you read my post about the other companies as solely benefiting them. But what about people with questions who can get direct answers from the source. You again miss the big picture. Communication you said, but people don't want to communicate with your kind, because you don't understand and your feel you are doing them a favor.

In my mind, you're a bad member who demonstrates everything wrong with the Internet and removing you, would be a smart business decision for me, and benefit all my good members more, and show other small business owners I am not only pro active, but understand their position.

How many times did you call SWFA and did you get an answer, even one you may not have liked?
 
#1,507
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hotbrass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And predictably, the anonymous school yard bullies come out to play.

Everyone will love their scopes when they eventually arrive and we will have forgotten how long it took and how badly things were handled.

Time heals all. </div></div>

This is true for me. And I've said it here before more than once, I think.

Many have said they will no longer patronize SWFA after this deal is over. But they still stayed in even after being offered a way out, for the 10,000 likes people. I've done my bitching recently and I regret it. When they come out with their next cool scope, like this SS 1-6 but with some more power, I will be very interested. And if they happen to do some kind of group buy eleswhere I just might have to do it again.

I can hardly wait......
smile.gif
see what I did there?
 
#1,508
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Swamp,

What you, and others fail to realize is, its not just "one company" that gets affected by your bad behavior. Many other companies with similar ideas, who might never run into a delay read this stuff and walk away. Every year I talk to big companies that tell me, "the members of the forum are too unkind to business" and they don't want to do business with people on places like this, the internet is too unruly to trust.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Other companies should take notice of this. It's a perfect example of how to not operate your company. Relationships are based on trust and communication. If you can't keep up your part of a bargain in a timely manner then notify the consumer and let him make an informed decision other than claiming that items have been detained by customs. If companies are too afraid to do business on this level on the internet then it screams to me that they aren't ready and need to lay low. Snipershide is no different than any other site on the internet. If they think it is too unruly here, then they will have the same problems on any other site. It's not unique.</span>

You're anonymously posting, bashing, attacking, so why should they step up. Sure they would like too, but they see this and immediately change their mind.

<span style="color: #FF0000">How can anything be wrong with telling the truth? Essentially everyone here is in it for the deal. Most all would never change their orders because they feel they are getting good value. All I think that anyone is asking is to be kept informed. </span>

It's not just deals, it's simple interactions, questions, CS etc... they look, think about it, read this tripe and leave. I hear it all the time. One mistake and you pounce, and they absolutely see it.

<span style="color: #FF0000">That is the nature of today's society. Even further incentive for these companies to get it right or make it right. LL you are partially to blame for this as well. You provide a user based forum for people to complain. </span>

Trust me on this, people call, talk about offering the membership a deal on a new offering and I tell them straight up not too. I say it's not worth it, the crowd is too fickle and one big mouth and it all goes south. In some cases they may have 200 units in their hand... I still advise them to consider other outlets, because I don't want to sell them on your business only to have it turn against them and me.

<span style="color: #FF0000">That may be sound advice. Maybe you know that they aren't up to the demands of your minions. We have high expectations and demands. It sounds more like you don't like your following... If these companies have the product and/or can maintain a reasonable amount of customer services, it benefits you both. </span>

You only hurt each other, the power of this place could have netting you access unlike most would not believe, but you constantly piss on the shoes of people doing their best with no remorse. Why because you can hide behind a pseudonym, there is personal responsibility.

<span style="color: #FF0000">Then why not make everyone fill out a complete profile and that way they can be called out? Nobody hides. It's the way the board is designed. Do you think that anyone has any problem calling SWFA and asking where their order is?</span>

You think you are showing them "truth" and the "right way" but really all you are doing is thinking about yourself, and whether or not you are inconvenienced, stomping your feet like a spoiled child. They didn't update me how and when, "I wanted' so they lose and we'll show them by how much.

<span style="color: #FF0000">LL, we are showing them "truth" and the "right way". You think they and others haven't learned any kind of lesson from this? Customer service is the basis for any business. Without that then you have nothing.</span>

Big picture, lots of guys just don't get the big picture.
<span style="color: #FF0000">

"The BIG picture". Everybody wants to make money. Including LL, SWFA and the rest of the forum. Some would like to make money the right way leading to further sales. That would entail providing a superior product for a decent amount of money AND providing a respectable amount of customer service not just for that product for all of the products that they provide. SWFA has failed in this regard.</span> </div></div>


Anyone who denies this is either a sadist or has fallen under the gun business mantra of it's a supply driven sector. It's time to stand up and realize that is not the truth and to demand better.
 
#1,509
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I called them today to see if some parts for my AR were available. They answered after three rings.
To anyone that that mite complain about the magnification ring in the future.....
Get the throw lever when it becomes available. I have one on my 5-20, worth every penny.
 
#1,510
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Interesting the two guys arguing the most both have about 160 wonder why that is.

Funny part of this, S&B announced the 3-20x took pre orders from dealers and then took over 2 years to deliver.

NF showed the BEAST 2 years ago, and after several changes is just releasing it.

Two companies with track records that both took 2 years to release a product.

SWFA is not building the scope in house but contracted it. Would you rather a defective unit on time or one done right that took a little longer?

I suppose some would rather the better business of on time over reliability but then the other guys seemed to disagree.

 
#1,512
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoFail</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When they come out with their next cool scope, like this SS 1-6 but with some more power, I will be very interested.</div></div>

I've heard good rumors.....
wink.gif
 
#1,513
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting the two guys arguing the most both have about 160 wonder why that is.

Funny part of this, S&B announced the 3-20x took pre orders from dealers and then took over 2 years to deliver.

NF showed the BEAST 2 years ago, and after several changes is just releasing it.

Two companies with track records that both took 2 years to release a product.

SWFA is not building the scope in house but contracted it. Would you rather a defective unit on time or one done right that took a little longer?

I suppose some would rather the better business of on time over reliability but then the other guys seemed to disagree.

</div></div>


Lowlight, with all due respect, it's not really the problems they had incurred that lead to the delays, but as at least I have stated it is simply the communication or lack there of from our promotor. I think what became the missing ingredient is the communication from them, specifically here. It's all I needed. Hell I'd wait another 3 months and not bitch if that interest from them was ever really here to share with us. I will not fault them for that anymore. And I've had my own faults too.

I guess it is a learning expierience for many of us, this new way of conducting business still has lessons to be learned. I will leave it at that.

Another thing is I really wanted to be a big fan of SWFA. When I learned about this scope they became my hero's. it was exactly what I wanted and didn't know know it until I saw Jon's review. I wanted to see this go over great and they would be everyone else's hero too.

This will blow over. I'm really feeling that SS 1-6, yes'ery Bob....
 
#1,514
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting the two guys arguing the most both have about 160 wonder why that is.

Funny part of this, S&B announced the 3-20x took pre orders from dealers and then took over 2 years to deliver.

NF showed the BEAST 2 years ago, and after several changes is just releasing it.

Two companies with track records that both took 2 years to release a product.

SWFA is not building the scope in house but contracted it. Would you rather a defective unit on time or one done right that took a little longer?

I suppose some would rather the better business of on time over reliability but then the other guys seemed to disagree.

</div></div>

Does post count have anything to do with substance? I feel that I have made meaningful posts to this board.

I used to be a chef in an old life. Industry standard said, the rule is that any complaint that you had should be regarded 10 fold. There are many people that just keep to themselves and vote with their feet. This thread has a lot of those people that are just unwilling to complain in public.

Neither S&B or NF released a group buy either... SWFA is the driving force in this deal. They have 100% knowledge unlike Eurpooptic or CS Tactical and they have not provided accurate information about the status of the product. You act like what SWFA did for us was a one way street. The fact is that SWFA benefits greatly from this as well.

The simple fact is all that SWFA had to to do was remain in contact with their buyers and keep them informed. That easy. Instead they took more orders than they could handle, and told customs stories for months...
 
#1,515
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

So you know that for a fact, you know exactly what prevented them shipping . You should share as you talk as if you know something about the build of the scope?. So what delayed them?

Plenty of people have ordered S&B 1-8xs and haven't gotten them. None have shipped in almost 3 yrs.

SWFA offered an exit, if you chose not to take the exit that is your fault. The choice was the buyers to hang tight or get off the bus.
 
#1,516
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

And going back and looking a bit,

People like swamp2 started attacking them almost immediately, both before and after the option to get a full refund was presented. He could have easily walked away.

From what I read and saw, SWFA didn't stop communicating, they just stopped communicating on here, ask yourselves why that might have been.

They clearly answered emails, phones on the subject, and while the answers weren't encouraging they still answered, in the end, HERE is where they stopped talking.

Seeing the same players bitching and moaning about the status updates they were getting, one would ask, why bother.

Which brings me full circle,

I feel you won't see them respond here anymore. Just a gut feeling, but I think they washed their hands of this place. Clearly shipment notices are going out, and no update, even a small positive one.

Elvis has left the building.
 
#1,517
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I've read a lot of these pages over the past months. I heard about SWFA having a good reputation back when the internet pretty much had rec.guns. I bought an SS 10X a LONG time ago. I bought a 5-20X in the first group buy, 33% savings, and a 3-9X in the discounted sales they offered members that ran for like a year. I've never seen anybody offer these things to members of another forum.

I know you've waited a long time for the 1-6X. There's at least one thread where people complained about the time it took to get their money back when they asked SWFA for a refund. Basically it looks like this all has turned into a bash for them. I hope that doesn't end the days of deals here. I'm holding out for a 1-8X from them.

My opinion is that you're killing the goose laying the golden eggs for you. You are going to get your scopes. This just looks like many of you would rather drive the new car home today even if it would be recalled tomorrow, rather than wait for it to be right.

Yeah, SWFA started the group buy, like they did for the 5-20X which pleased a LOT of people here. You have to laugh every time that old thread gets brought back to life with people asking how to get in on the deal.

It just appears that on forums once the tide turns, they're not going to give you an answer many will be satisfied with. If they simply came on here and posted not this week, over and over, would it make you feel better? Some of you are crapping in your own cornflakes.
 
#1,518
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I was annoyed with SWFA throughout this long process, not gonna lie. The wait I was prepared for, but the missed deadlines followed up by...nothing were what made it tough.

That being said, Snipershide has been good to me. Lowlight has been good to me. And with the end in site, I'm sure in a few months I will feel SWFA was good to me with the savings and great quality. They make great stuff. I'm glad they are making these 1-6's right. If they ever do another group buy I would think they will update a little bit more, even if it's just to say, 'hey, sorry we missed the anticipated deadline we thought we would hit it's not gonna happen." Instead last we heard was end of November shipping and then it came and went and we got nothing. For literally months. This happened several times before too. That's what killed us.(If that communication from them stopped because of a few loudmouthed whiners on here, well that sucks for the majority of us who were patient and gave them the benefit of the doubt over and over.)

With all that though, most stuck it out because the deal was not that bad. All we had was a place in a virtual line that we didn't even have to put money down on. And won't until our stuff ships. Not bad. Pretty good actually, especially with the end in site. As many have said, with just a bit of communication most would not have fretted at all. I didn't bitch until now, just my thoughts. Thanks LL for the site you have. Obviously you benefit, but I have sure benefited and learned here. Thanks SWFA for this deal. A little more talk next time and you guys will be golden, problems or no. Really you probably still are! Take care all.
 
#1,519
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Thank you for the ongoing discussion. I really do appreciate it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is a business and there is more to business than just selling, there are also good customers and bad ones. In my opinion your a clear example of a bad customer.</div></div>

Am I bad for SWFA or bad for the hide? Are you speaking on behalf of SWFA? Do you have any idea what I have or have not purchased from SWFA outside of this group buy? I think only each party can decide who is bad for whom.

Anyway, I am in sales, have been for well over 10 years in a large public company selling B2B professionally (i.e. to other big public companies). I do get it, <span style="font-weight: bold">I have better customers and worse customers but NO bad customers, period</span>. This is an attitude others can definitely learn something from. Similarly, if one has thoughts about their "worse" customers, those should be aired in private with key colleagues, not in public.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my way of thinking, it would be far more beneficial to this board, it's members and the businesses who patronize this place to remove bad customers. Think about your focus here. Removing you, would communicate to everyone that bad customers hurt more than just one side of the equation.</div></div>

You will do as you see fit. However, it would be worth considering noting the forum rule(s) I have broken. Otherwise, this great place (and I mean that wholeheartedly) could be seen as somewhat "lawless". Look, I know you are essentially the "king" here and I very much respect that. I've read and benefited from so much of your personal contributions. However, the more transparently and "by the book" you run this site, the more respect and more business you will have.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You see the group buy and benefitting only SWFA, in fact you read my post about the other companies as solely benefiting them. But what about people with questions who can get direct answers from the source. You again miss the big picture.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">I've stated over and over and over again that SWFA clearly makes wonderful products, very well thought out and executed. Honestly, I am just about blue in the face from heaping on this praise for them. You and others just keep not reading it.</span> Yes I can be harsh and yes I've voiced many suggestions and complaints. However, I have always kept it constructive. And on top of that I've given them plenty of props for doing this at reasonable prices, specials/sales/group buys or not. Of course I'll benefit from their product. The product was never in question, ever.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Communication you said, but people don't want to communicate with your kind, because you don't understand and your feel you are doing them a favor.</div></div>

There are many here who feel the same. Please don't make me the poster boy for the dissatisfied. Note the valid point about those who do generall keep quiet from texasleftychef a couple posts back...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my mind, you're a bad member who demonstrates everything wrong with the Internet and removing you, would be a smart business decision for me, and benefit all my good members more, and show other small business owners I am not only pro active, but understand their position.</div></div>

If you really feel that strongly you should follow your gut. However, you would be alienating many who strongly agree with me and would also be sending out a message that you cater to/favor vendors over individual members.

I've never lied. SWFA have. I've never been offensive nor used childish or nasty language, many others here have. I admitted some naiveté with regards to the firearms industry very early on on this thread but that doesn't make SWFA innocent. Those issues are unrelated. Similarly the norm (specifically super long delays) does not make that state of affairs right nor provide a model for all businesses to follow. I guess lastly you certainly can say you don't like complaining but that really shouldn't mean I'm "banning material".

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many times did you call SWFA and did you get an answer, even one you may not have liked? </div></div>

Three times, the same <span style="font-weight: bold">NON ANSWER</span> every time. NO UPDATES ON ANYTHING.
 
#1,520
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flatlander308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got notification from UPS. Schedule delivery date is 1-14-13 for my new 1-6. Alright! </div></div>

You mind sharing what order number you had?
 
#1,521
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I am done, like I said, Elvis has left the building.

Three answers you didn't like, wonder if they got answers from the manufacturer they didn't like, you act as if they were building it. Those non answers might have been all they had, and you deemed them unworthy.

Nope, you could have left, you were out no money as been posted, it was a place in line. They clearly offered a solid and viable exit for you.

Even others commented on your posts as attacking SWFA, and lets be clear I don't speak for them nor have I spoke to them about any of this.

The vendors pay to be here and you don't, you were merely inconvenienced, but choose to push back over and over instead of leaving the buy. There is a rule about attacking companies, even a post on it.

As was noted above, it's about business right, and members like you are clearly bad for business, mine and everyone else looking to take advantage of any potential deals. Maybe I need another rule, but I am pretty sure there is a clear catch all, like disruptive behavior. I think you disrupted the process, the instant you became unhappy you have the choice to back out, but instead you continued to disrupt business to the point, it appears SWFA no longer wanted to interact with the members on here.

The little I read points pretty well to guys like you, and while there might have been a few more in the boat, you appeared to be one constant disruption. At least 100 posts, most negative.

What would you do faced with a "worse" member like you? Knowing, 2 clicks and a day later you won't be missed.
 
#1,522
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I just want to get positive again, fellows.

What are we doing here anymore anyway, sheesh. They left already. Drove them off we did. It's kinda embarrassing. I apologize for any hurt that has been incurred on anyone because of all this drama.
 
#1,523
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Wow.

Standard of judgement: Replace SWFA with ME - the private individual who needs 100 posts to sell stuff - and see if I'd pass the sniff test.

There was money involved, although it could be explained away as "Well you pay X for 5-20, and the small bit left will be charged for the 1-6 when it ships."

This thread was a shit show top to bottom without a doubt, but there is a zero percent chance I'm willing to forget that SWFA themselves were part of the problem.
 
#1,524
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Wow, this is the first time I have looked at this thread in a long time. The entitlement crowed is here in full force. Many of you sound like that 47% that Mit Romney talked about.

For all we know the have been sitting in customs for a few months.

The whole bad business whining cracks me up. I highly doubt any of you guys know what it is like having a scope manufactured. Chris I dare bet is a perfectionist. Most good business owners are and I dare bet he wanted the scope right the first time. And I dare bet it is killing him to be delayed by this. Then you are think that having him come on here and constantly give you the updates you think you are entitled to are necessary. What good would it do? Seriously? They are shipping they announced it on SWFA's site Optics Talk and on Facebook I believe. What more do you need than knowing that?

SWFA cannot control the manufacturer. They were probably given dates and they might not have lived up to them. So it put things behind. At that point what is SWFA to do? Start over from scratch again with another company? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but either way that takes time and creates delays.

Swampy2, you work in sales. So that suddenly makes you an expert? Sales is one tiny little part to what they are doing. I have been doing business with SWFA for a long time. All it takes is a phone call or a email to Brady or CF2 or Chris himself and they give me an answer. They are 3 extremely good men who work their butts off to make the customer happy, they care much more than you know. I don't need to come to a site and whine like a little child that my mommy poured to much milk in my cereal. My hell, you are like a fucking 4 year old kid. The fact that grown men act like this is ridiculous. It ashame's me that you are a fellow gun owners and supposed adults. Embrace the suck, life it not fair. It does not go the way we want it to, deal with it. As lowlight has stated multiple times and you cannot get your thick head around it. You had a way out you chose to ride it out, so except the choice you made and sit the hell down and shut the hell up.
 
#1,525
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I think there are far more people that are content or indifferent to the situation than are upset by it. I for one, ordered the combo deal but haven't voiced anything since I'm relatively indifferent to the delays. Sure I'd prefer to get the scope sooner than later, but THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN MY MONEY so I'm not angry. I bet there are way more people that feel as I do than people complaining on this thread.
 
#1,526
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flatlander308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just got notification from UPS. Schedule delivery date is 1-14-13 for my new 1-6. Alright! </div></div>

+1 On the request for your confirmation/Order#

186xxx here. Still nothing. Ordered April 6th.
 
#1,527
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

People keep talking about SWFA and communication... let me spell this out for you in case you missed it.

SWFA runs a promo for an insane COMBO price for two already undervalued scopes. They say, "All you have to do is get 10,000 people to 'like us' on facebook and you will get the scopes at an amazing price". They don't say who those 10,000 have to be or whether it matters that you got your wife and kids and made some fake facebook accounts to meet the mark.

People begin to order....

The first signs of crying begin... "Oh SWFA oh SWFA can we have the 5-20 in advance, even though you originally said they would ship together?"

SWFA responds with generosity and agrees to do so at full price to cover their ass ...

Crying continues... "OMG SWFA how could you charge me full price? Couldn't you just undervalue the price of your own scopes and give it to us at a super discount? We don't care that you're a business that needs money to operate dammit!"

The bitching becomes so rampant that SWFA makes a command decision and decides to send out the scopes they were saving for RMAs out to the new customers because they are told by their manufacturer that there will be plenty more coming soon.

Time goes on, crying continues... and continues... "SWFA is crap! SWFA sucks for not coming onto this board everyday and telling us the same thing they told us yesterday, 'the scopes aren't ready'".

I'd be willing to bet, had they come on here everyday to tell us they're not ready, some of you would STILL have bitched.

SWFA finds out that their newly designed scope has reticle issues because their reticle maker is full of it and lied to them. They now have to find a new reticle maker and start over. Instead of sending us an inferior product, instead of saying "Sorry deals off", they go find someone that can actually do it, and then they get on it. They spend their time fixing the issue instead of coddling the cry babies. Remember this was beyond their control and unexpected.

SWFA comes on this board and explains the situation and it calms people down for the whole of 3 days and the crying ensues once again.

"SWFA SWFA where is my 1-6 scope! I'm so mad I want to cancel! But I can't because I already mounted my 5-20 and can't return it! OMG SWFA YOU HAVE RUINED ME!"

SWFA... despite having had to deal with countless complaint calls, and 34 pages of SH BS, does the UNBELIEVABLE! I mean I've never heard of anything remotely like what they did. They say "RETURN YOUR USED SCOPE and we'll give you a FULL refund". O M G?!

STILL people complain... and cry...

It didn't matter what SWFA did to appease the children, the children couldn't help themselves and kept on crying. What those children needed was a nice smack in their little behinds... but i forget... in todays world, I get to go to prison for smacking my kids butt.

It's BROKEN i tell ya.
 
#1,529
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

order # 18369xx. I put my order in on march 14,2012 before the group buy. after the group buy hit 10,000 likes, called SWFA and had them apply the discount to my order. they did me right. no complaints from me.
 
#1,530
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


2liengj.jpg
</div></div>

Oh man oh man... how exciting! That's just a beautiful photo.
smile.gif
 
#1,531
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flatlander308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">order # 18369xx. I put my order in on march 14,2012 before the group buy. after the group buy hit 10,000 likes, called SWFA and had them apply the discount to my order. they did me right. no complaints from me. </div></div>

I did the same process just later...kinda dashed my hopes that i'm on this 1st round. oh well. I'll keep waiting i guess.
 
#1,532
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The little I read points pretty well to guys like you, and while there might have been a few more in the boat, you appeared to be one constant disruption. At least 100 posts, most negative.

What would you do faced with a "worse" member like you? Knowing, 2 clicks and a day later you won't be missed. </div></div>

I like the idea of the excessive complainers being banned. As Lowlight stated there is a SH rule that allows it, I am all for it.

The complainers waste everyone's time, turn off SWFA and many other vendors as well. Using the rule would make SH a better place. I never missed NOBODY being banned, rather it made my day.

s
 
#1,533
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

And that rule should be applied equally about the complainers complaining about the complainers which is as much a waste of time as the complainers, and even worse, they are mostly personal attacks, which on most boards is not tolerated.

Just a thought.
 
#1,535
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I'll man up and say for my part LL, I'm sorry if I crossed any lines. If you read through I stuck up for and defended SWFA for a LONG time in this. It was only recently when it appeared people were getting very different answers that I started to question the WHEN of them showing up. never doubted SWFA themselves. I think it's sad that/if they choose to leave over this rather than try to learn from it and make sure everyone's getting the same info (employees, emails, calls, etc). But again sorry to the board and to SWFA if my posts came off as an asshat.
 
#1,537
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Someone please post some through the scope pics of the new reticle! I can't wait to see it!
laugh.gif
The other big question is whether the illumination will be daylight visible like the 1-4x.
 
#1,540
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

When the site changes over, I will have to initiate some new rules for all group buys.

Rules that will cover both buyer and seller,

Understandings of what is acceptable and what is not, and methods for exiting a buy, private channels for complaints, etc.

I mean clearly SWFA explained the position and not having anything to add, while frustrating is still something. You know they had to retool, not rushing through the process is not their fault, and the lack of understanding on the big mouth;s part is poor form. They are not ready yet is still an update.

Sucks you have to micro manage stuff, <span style="font-style: italic">(considering the site doesn't make anything on them)</span> especially because they can help not only the members but a lot of small businesses, however when the bad apples can skew the whole deal, we have outline a method for their removal. Sure I can easily pick and choose the loudest, those who complained and didn't' take advantage of the exit provided, etc, but this way we make it possible to immediately boot them before it gets this far.
 
#1,542
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When the site changes over,<snip> </div></div>

LL, pardon my ignorance on this message, does this mean you are working on upgrading the site or what do you mean by "changes over?"

I think you have a great site. Other than new rules and procedures, what is the site going to change over to?

Thanks for doing the heavy work!
 
#1,543
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

I know my gripes mostly come from the fact that SWFA didn't tell us they had to retool for months down the line. We literally had to BEG for updates.

Hell, they were retooling when they probably should have been shipping. Shit happens, and we get it - but that never justifies poor communication. If I bought a new car and they missed the delivery date or had to change things on it without telling me after I already paid, I'd bitch about that, too.

Truth be told, I *was* a little pissed that I had no choice in being charged full price for scope 1 while waiting a year on scope 2 (which I'm only getting charged 30% for).

As a member of the group buy, I think its important that those issues come out so that the vendor/manufacturer learns from the customers and this whole process becomes finely tuned. What I hate seeing is all of the damned personal attacks.

The whole point of these types of promotions is for cost savings on both sides. The manufacturer has a LOT to gain because they can really just produce products that are guaranteed sales, with little to no risk, since the inventory is already sold.
 
#1,544
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hotbrass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quinc</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hotbrass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a picture of the new reticle: </div></div>

You A-hole! I was waiting for the picture to load.
eek.gif
</div></div>

Dont get mad at me. I have given you more than SWFA.

Your welcome.</div></div>


HAHAHAHA good one hehe





Aron-
 
#1,545
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catalyst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know my gripes mostly come from the fact that SWFA didn't tell us they had to retool for months down the line. We literally had to BEG for updates.

Hell, they were retooling when they probably should have been shipping. Shit happens, and we get it - but that never justifies poor communication. If I bought a new car and they missed the delivery date or had to change things on it without telling me after I already paid, I'd bitch about that, too.

Truth be told, I *was* a little pissed that I had no choice in being charged full price for scope 1 while waiting a year on scope 2 (which I'm only getting charged 30% for).

As a member of the group buy, I think its important that those issues come out so that the vendor/manufacturer learns from the customers and this whole process becomes finely tuned. What I hate seeing is all of the damned personal attacks.

The whole point of these types of promotions is for cost savings on both sides. The manufacturer has a LOT to gain because they can really just produce products that are guaranteed sales, with little to no risk, since the inventory is already sold. </div></div>

Who paid? Did anyone pay for a scope yet? They charged those who got the 5-20x scopes for the 5-20x scopes, but no one has been charged for the others yet. Why should you get to choose how much you pay for the deal they offered?

Why do you think you are entitled for constant communication? That is an honest question, I just don't comprehend. They don't owe you nothing special. When they had news to tell they told it.
 
#1,546
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Wow just read through some of the posts I have missed and I would say Low Light just shut this shit down! I thought that drama about life was only on reality fucking TC shows! Guess I'm wrong.





Aron-
 
#1,547
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catalyst</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know my gripes mostly come from the fact that SWFA didn't tell us they had to retool for months down the line. We literally had to BEG for updates.

Hell, they were retooling when they probably should have been shipping. Shit happens, and we get it - but that never justifies poor communication. If I bought a new car and they missed the delivery date or had to change things on it without telling me after I already paid, I'd bitch about that, too.

Truth be told, I *was* a little pissed that I had no choice in being charged full price for scope 1 while waiting a year on scope 2 (which I'm only getting charged 30% for).

As a member of the group buy, I think its important that those issues come out so that the vendor/manufacturer learns from the customers and this whole process becomes finely tuned. What I hate seeing is all of the damned personal attacks.

The whole point of these types of promotions is for cost savings on both sides. The manufacturer has a LOT to gain because they can really just produce products that are guaranteed sales, with little to no risk, since the inventory is already sold. </div></div>

Who paid? Did anyone pay for a scope yet? They charged those who got the 5-20x scopes for the 5-20x scopes, but no one has been charged for the others yet. Why should you get to choose how much you pay for the deal they offered?

Why do you think you are entitled for constant communication? That is an honest question, I just don't comprehend. They don't owe you nothing special. When they had news to tell they told it.</div></div>


I have posts and post about this kind of bullshit. Telling all the idiots that just dont seem to understand that they did not pay for shit unless it has been shipped.



Aron-
 
#1,548
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

Still very much looking forward to a super cool scope. I was hoping I'd be I be first batch of shipments but I guess I won't be as I've had no indication of a shipment from the first batch. Oh well. I didn't consider that there were pre orders before the 5000 likes code was released. That makes sense.

It's great to see the pic with some boxes of scopes. Reticule looks the same as it always did, I mean I can't tell where any difference is but whatever, as ive said long time ago, I'm glad SWFA did not compromise quality to ship us something less. I'm sure compromising was never a consideration, so good for them, and good for us 1-6 people.

Bummer this thread went to shit, I regret anything I had to do with that, sorry fellows!!
 
#1,549
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People keep talking about SWFA and communication... let me spell this out for you in case you missed it.

SWFA runs a promo for an insane COMBO price for two already undervalued scopes. They say, "All you have to do is get 10,000 people to 'like us' on facebook and you will get the scopes at an amazing price". They don't say who those 10,000 have to be or whether it matters that you got your wife and kids and made some fake facebook accounts to meet the mark.

People begin to order....

The first signs of crying begin... "Oh SWFA oh SWFA can we have the 5-20 in advance, even though you originally said they would ship together?"

SWFA responds with generosity and agrees to do so at full price to cover their ass ...

Crying continues... "OMG SWFA how could you charge me full price? Couldn't you just undervalue the price of your own scopes and give it to us at a super discount? We don't care that you're a business that needs money to operate dammit!"

The bitching becomes so rampant that SWFA makes a command decision and decides to send out the scopes they were saving for RMAs out to the new customers because they are told by their manufacturer that there will be plenty more coming soon.

Time goes on, crying continues... and continues... "SWFA is crap! SWFA sucks for not coming onto this board everyday and telling us the same thing they told us yesterday, 'the scopes aren't ready'".

I'd be willing to bet, had they come on here everyday to tell us they're not ready, some of you would STILL have bitched.

SWFA finds out that their newly designed scope has reticle issues because their reticle maker is full of it and lied to them. They now have to find a new reticle maker and start over. Instead of sending us an inferior product, instead of saying "Sorry deals off", they go find someone that can actually do it, and then they get on it. They spend their time fixing the issue instead of coddling the cry babies. Remember this was beyond their control and unexpected.

SWFA comes on this board and explains the situation and it calms people down for the whole of 3 days and the crying ensues once again.

"SWFA SWFA where is my 1-6 scope! I'm so mad I want to cancel! But I can't because I already mounted my 5-20 and can't return it! OMG SWFA YOU HAVE RUINED ME!"

SWFA... despite having had to deal with countless complaint calls, and 34 pages of SH BS, does the UNBELIEVABLE! I mean I've never heard of anything remotely like what they did. They say "RETURN YOUR USED SCOPE and we'll give you a FULL refund". O M G?!

STILL people complain... and cry...

It didn't matter what SWFA did to appease the children, the children couldn't help themselves and kept on crying. What those children needed was a nice smack in their little behinds... but i forget... in todays world, I get to go to prison for smacking my kids butt.

It's BROKEN i tell ya.</div></div>

Excellent summary, HKDave.

I'm looking forward to getting truly great scopes at prices so unbelievable that it is, indeed, worth the wait. Like so many things in life.
 
#1,550
Re: SWFA-SS Tax Day Group Buy: 1-6, 5-20, and more!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hk dave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People keep talking about SWFA and communication... let me spell this out for you in case you missed it.

SWFA runs a promo for an insane COMBO price for two already undervalued scopes. They say, "All you have to do is get 10,000 people to 'like us' on facebook and you will get the scopes at an amazing price". They don't say who those 10,000 have to be or whether it matters that you got your wife and kids and made some fake facebook accounts to meet the mark.

People begin to order....

The first signs of crying begin... "Oh SWFA oh SWFA can we have the 5-20 in advance, even though you originally said they would ship together?"

SWFA responds with generosity and agrees to do so at full price to cover their ass ...

Crying continues... "OMG SWFA how could you charge me full price? Couldn't you just undervalue the price of your own scopes and give it to us at a super discount? We don't care that you're a business that needs money to operate dammit!"

The bitching becomes so rampant that SWFA makes a command decision and decides to send out the scopes they were saving for RMAs out to the new customers because they are told by their manufacturer that there will be plenty more coming soon.

Time goes on, crying continues... and continues... "SWFA is crap! SWFA sucks for not coming onto this board everyday and telling us the same thing they told us yesterday, 'the scopes aren't ready'".

I'd be willing to bet, had they come on here everyday to tell us they're not ready, some of you would STILL have bitched.

SWFA finds out that their newly designed scope has reticle issues because their reticle maker is full of it and lied to them. They now have to find a new reticle maker and start over. Instead of sending us an inferior product, instead of saying "Sorry deals off", they go find someone that can actually do it, and then they get on it. They spend their time fixing the issue instead of coddling the cry babies. Remember this was beyond their control and unexpected.

SWFA comes on this board and explains the situation and it calms people down for the whole of 3 days and the crying ensues once again.

"SWFA SWFA where is my 1-6 scope! I'm so mad I want to cancel! But I can't because I already mounted my 5-20 and can't return it! OMG SWFA YOU HAVE RUINED ME!"

SWFA... despite having had to deal with countless complaint calls, and 34 pages of SH BS, does the UNBELIEVABLE! I mean I've never heard of anything remotely like what they did. They say "RETURN YOUR USED SCOPE and we'll give you a FULL refund". O M G?!

STILL people complain... and cry...

It didn't matter what SWFA did to appease the children, the children couldn't help themselves and kept on crying. What those children needed was a nice smack in their little behinds... but i forget... in todays world, I get to go to prison for smacking my kids butt.

It's BROKEN i tell ya. </div></div>

LL should go back and simply ban the dickheads.
 
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