The war in Ukraine and Donbas

[Mr.BR]

FPV drones becoming so wide spread they are being used to hunt individual soldiers.

 

[Ichi]

FPV drones becoming so wide spread they are being used to hunt individual soldiers.

When the use of thermal cameras on drones becomes more common, it will become even easier to target soldiers on the battle field.

 

[lariat]

This has disaster written all over it.

Ukrainian pilots must learn English to get F-16s – Pentagon

Ukraine must meet “certain criteria” before the US approves the third-party transfer of F-16 fighter jets to the country, the Pentagon says

www.rt.com

 

[Longshot231]

FPV drones becoming so wide spread they are being used to hunt individual soldiers.

They still might need a bigger shotgun.

 

[lariat]

When the use of thermal cameras on drones becomes more common, it will become even easier to target soldiers on the battlefield.

This gets into the cost of killing. It's cheaper and more effective to build a garage drone and strap kinetics on it than it is to use a mortar or artillery round. I can't tell if these are being man-piloted or if they are using AI. A number of countries are using AI to do this and it is very effective. What many who watch this video won't understand is that it isn't just a kinetic platform, the entire time it is transmitting video back to the pilot that video serves as additional situational awareness.

There are also other drones providing BDA and forward observer functions. This means that some traditional ground tactics and personnel roles have moved to the 3D space. It is also noteworthy that these soldiers are running from the drones - they have no effective countermeasures.

 

[lariat]

They still might need a bigger shotgun.

The are drones out there that can take a shotgun at less than 20 yards. At that range its too late. Drones are advancing faster than most think.

 

[Mr.BR]

When the use of thermal cameras on drones becomes more common, it will become even easier to target soldiers on the battle field.

With thermals just a question of cost , these drones depending on size cost around 300-400$ and 1/3 to1/2 of the cost is in the lipo battery.

One thing that seems to be upcoming is AI auto guidance, as FPV drones typically loose signal before impact its up to operator to guestimate the trajectory post video feed loss ai take care of that irespective of signall , in addition it opens up air to air capabilty.

Note these things are not really new ,Switchblade 300 and 600 already have it as does Lancet,but here we are talking sub 500$ drones

These first-gen still only cost cca 480$ with AI homing package

 

[GreenGO Juan]

FPV drones becoming so wide spread they are being used to hunt individual soldiers.

Any idea how those are detonated? Impact, Remote, etc?

 

[Longshot231]

The are drones out there that can take a shotgun at less than 20 yards. At that range its too late. Drones are advancing faster than most think.

That's why I said that they might need a bigger shotgun.

 

[lariat]

With thermals just a question of cost , these drones depending on size cost around 300-400$ and 1/3 to1/2 of the cost is in the lipo battery.

One thing that seems to be upcoming is AI auto guidance, as FPV drones typically loose signal before impact its up to operator to guestimate the trajectory post video feed loss ai take care of that irespective of signall , in addition it opens up air to air capabilty.

Note these things are not really new ,Switchblade 300 and 600 already have it as does Lancet,but here we are talking sub 500$ drones

These first-gen still only cost cca 480$ with AI homing package

AI guidance is already here, along with target acquisition at that size of drone. The big hurdle is creating a target library and getting to only lock on intended targets. But its already been done and proven. There is also already AI for automatic weapons that can predict where a person is when concealed and predict where they will exit out of building or which opening they will attack from, and some of these form factors are man packable.

 

[RUTGERS95]

2 seconds is roughly 2 clicks...if it was a tank, you wouldn't hear the tank fire before the shell arrived as it would be direct and traveling faster then the speed of sound but honestly i have never received direct fire from a tank.

The only reason you hear the gun fire then the shell arrive after in the video is the shell is coming down on its arc while the sound traveled in a straight line from the gun... Hence why you count during incoming....so if it's a miss and you don't have artillery radar up, you can give your best guess for counter battery fire at range and direction....

gotcha, thank you!

 

[RUTGERS95]

I wonder what counter measures are being developed

I feel like it's a ww1 scenario where the tech is ahead of the tactics

 

[Mr.BR]

Any idea how those are detonated? Impact, Remote, etc?

Depending on the payload most have impact fuses often with double redundancy(RPG), but some that are flying claymore like mines have remote detonation

Nasty piece of work.

 

[lariat]

I wonder what counter measures are being developed

I feel like it's a ww1 scenario where the tech is ahead of the tactics

Look up CUAS and CCUAS. Its almost a whole industry unto itself. There is now an ongoing game of cat and mouse to get over the next technological or procedural improvement. I gave a talk about this in 2017 - we are in a new arms race. It took the videos coming out of Ukraine for most to see it and understand what has happened, and now the conflict has greatly increased the urgency and investment into the technology. What is being videoed in Ukraine is low level tech, but pretty effective.

 

[NoDopes]

 

[fpgt72]

When the use of thermal cameras on drones becomes more common, it will become even easier to target soldiers on the battle field.

Being a "hobbyist" I played with this stuff long before it was available for you to buy. I had the "night vision" out of a crashed new BMW that I mounted on my quad, and that image sent back to me on the ground. I also mounted some pretty powerful LED's on one, lit up my back field. I am sure the neighbors thought UFO's. It was fun to play with back then.

Then idiots started to do idiot things with them like fly them around airplanes and the FAA stuck their nose in the hobby. DRONES RUINED THE RC FLYING HOBBY. And I fucking hate those people with every fiber of my being. I really just don't fly anymore, but I still have my gear.

 

[fpgt72]

They still might need a bigger shotgun.

That second video......that is 100% a commercial product.

I figure I might give a two bits from someone that was really deep into that hobby:

When you think of "real" drones there are only two real choices, DJI (Really a chinese company called WooKong) and everyone else. I guess DJI sounds better then some chinese name. For the most part they all LOOK the same, sure there are some odd things in there like the flying egg and stuff like that, the basic shape is the basic shape. Dot in the middle with arms sticking out. When you get into these "better" drones, and by better I means stuff you can "fly" without your phone you move into what I would call range between pocket lint money to couch money in the terms of military budgets. These things can range from a few hundred to mid 5 figures depending on how far, how long, how much.

One thing these thing ALL need is a GPS signal. This is how they know where they are. Way back in the day if you did not set "home" correctly and you hit that button your drone would take off for china....a bit funny. Some have things so they can "see" where they are going and automatically avoid things like trees and such. But take away that GPS signal and they just don't do what you want them to do.

So what can they do in a "hobby" type setting.....I am sure you have seen it. You can set it to "follow" you if you are on say a bicycle, 4wheeler or something like that. You can "orbit" it while it follows you. You can say go here, then there, then there then come home. Think that might be handy in a war type deal.....sure. By the way this exists in all RC "hobbies". You can do it with fixed wings, RC Plane, or even RC cars. There are deals where you have your RC car and you program it to solve problems, then let it loose in a maze, the one that finds its way out the fastest is the winner......hmmm.

For a while with my drone long before the FAA stuck its nose in things I did things for neighbors like fly up around their house to see if the gutters need cleaning, real handy for that. Use it to look for a cow that got out, then call the guy on his cell. These kind of things the FAA put a quick end to. I bet I did this 15+ years ago, it was still very new. You had to make all this stuff.

I used a company called 3D Robotics, they are a US company. DJI was just coming out with their first drone, but they really did not exist yet. Up to then you had to build it yourself. This was part of the fun of it. You had to put time in, you crashed A LOT. After DJI and it flew out of the box. IMHO there was no "buy in" no sweat you had to do to go fly. And as a result people did stupid shit. When the FAA was talking about looking into this, great fear ran through the RC community. The problem is not the guy that spend half a year stick building a P-51 Mustang, that guy has months and months of work in that project. The problem is the idiot that just wrote a check. If he lost it he just cuts another check.

To circle around, you are not going to tell me that you can't "jam" the GPS signal. So much depends on it. So if we can, with all the crap we are "giving" Ukraine why are these commercial drones still a thing.

 

[lariat]

That second video......that is 100% a commercial product.

I figure I might give a two bits from someone that was really deep into that hobby:

When you think of "real" drones there are only two real choices, DJI (Really a chinese company called WooKong) and everyone else. I guess DJI sounds better then some chinese name. For the most part they all LOOK the same, sure there are some odd things in there like the flying egg and stuff like that, the basic shape is the basic shape. Dot in the middle with arms sticking out. When you get into these "better" drones, and by better I means stuff you can "fly" without your phone you move into what I would call range between pocket lint money to couch money in the terms of military budgets. These things can range from a few hundred to mid 5 figures depending on how far, how long, how much.

One thing these thing ALL need is a GPS signal. This is how they know where they are. Way back in the day if you did not set "home" correctly and you hit that button your drone would take off for china....a bit funny. Some have things so they can "see" where they are going and automatically avoid things like trees and such. But take away that GPS signal and they just don't do what you want them to do.

So what can they do in a "hobby" type setting.....I am sure you have seen it. You can set it to "follow" you if you are on say a bicycle, 4wheeler or something like that. You can "orbit" it while it follows you. You can say go here, then there, then there then come home. Think that might be handy in a war type deal.....sure. By the way this exists in all RC "hobbies". You can do it with fixed wings, RC Plane, or even RC cars. There are deals where you have your RC car and you program it to solve problems, then let it loose in a maze, the one that finds its way out the fastest is the winner......hmmm.

For a while with my drone long before the FAA stuck its nose in things I did things for neighbors like fly up around their house to see if the gutters need cleaning, real handy for that. Use it to look for a cow that got out, then call the guy on his cell. These kind of things the FAA put a quick end to. I bet I did this 15+ years ago, it was still very new. You had to make all this stuff.

I used a company called 3D Robotics, they are a US company. DJI was just coming out with their first drone, but they really did not exist yet. Up to then you had to build it yourself. This was part of the fun of it. You had to put time in, you crashed A LOT. After DJI and it flew out of the box. IMHO there was no "buy in" no sweat you had to do to go fly. And as a result people did stupid shit. When the FAA was talking about looking into this, great fear ran through the RC community. The problem is not the guy that spend half a year stick building a P-51 Mustang, that guy has months and months of work in that project. The problem is the idiot that just wrote a check. If he lost it he just cuts another check.

To circle around, you are not going to tell me that you can't "jam" the GPS signal. So much depends on it. So if we can, with all the crap we are "giving" Ukraine why are these commercial drones still a thing.

Without getting into details - many of them are jammed. They are building drones cheaply and literally in garages or small offices over there so the loss is acceptable - quantity has its own quality. Add to that the sheer amount that the Ukes are donated. The EW environment there is very real. However, there are ways to navigate in a GPS denied environment. While that functionality is an extremely important aspect, there are other signatures that a UAV and its utilization will emit that need to be cloaked or overcome through other means. The R&D that is coming out of this conflict is quite impressive.

 

[fpgt72]

Without getting into details - many of them are jammed. They are building drones cheaply and literally in garages or small offices over there so the loss is acceptable - quantity has its own quality. Add to that the sheer amount that the Ukes are donated. The EW environment there is very real. However, there are ways to navigate in a GPS denied environment. While that functionality is an extremely important aspect, there are other signatures that a UAV and its utilization will emit that need to be cloaked or overcome through other means. The R&D that is coming out of this conflict is quite impressive.

I know less then nothing when using them in a "war" setting. I do however think I am smarter then the average bear when it comes to playing with them.

Yes building them cheap is basically what I did. The controllers I used Pixhawk are done around the home builder, that is what is fun about it. The ones I had that used a "map" you had to say, there is a tree here, go this far away from it and circle 3 times. Then the house is here, fly up 100 feet go south 100feet then back down to "home".

That was all really fun to play with.

I have a feeling we really don't know what is coming out of this conflict, but no doubt both sides are learning things that can only be learned when the bullets start flying. All you need to do is look to WWII on both sides.

Drones are fun, but like the article said, they are so scary. Think of any large group of people and what 3 drones could do. The pilot would not even need to be in the same state. I don't want any part of this.

I have not flown my fixed wing stuff in years, it all is just too scary for me. You can also do it with cars but I never did that. All my stuff is you must fly the thing, not even a basic "auto level" system in them.

I went to pull a photo of my stuff, wow it is old. These are only some of my planes.

 

[lariat]

I know less then nothing when using them in a "war" setting. I do however think I am smarter then the average bear when it comes to playing with them.

Yes building them cheap is basically what I did. The controllers I used Pixhawk are done around the home builder, that is what is fun about it. The ones I had that used a "map" you had to say, there is a tree here, go this far away from it and circle 3 times. Then the house is here, fly up 100 feet go south 100feet then back down to "home".

That was all really fun to play with.

I have a feeling we really don't know what is coming out of this conflict, but no doubt both sides are learning things that can only be learned when the bullets start flying. All you need to do is look to WWII on both sides.

Drones are fun, but like the article said, they are so scary. Think of any large group of people and what 3 drones could do. The pilot would not even need to be in the same state. I don't want any part of this.

I have not flown my fixed wing stuff in years, it all is just too scary for me. You can also do it with cars but I never did that. All my stuff is you must fly the thing, not even a basic "auto level" system in them.

I went to pull a photo of my stuff, wow it is old. These are only some of my planes.
View attachment 8211021

Fun fact: after September 16 you can't fly those any longer without a remote ID attached to it. All UAVs must be registered with the FAA and the Remote ID unit is to be as well. Each one needs it own unique Remote ID, no switching them around as the remote ID once logged with the FAA is tied to an individual UAV.

 

[lariat]

A lot of people aren't thinking about it yet, but this is the unintended consequence - illegal organizations are learning from Ukraine as well. The amount of defense money that will have to be spent in this arena is gong to be stratospheric.

The Wrong People Just Got Their Hands on an Elite Drone Unit

CJNGCIUDAD JUÁREZ, Mexico—One of Mexico’s most violent cartels has just created its own elite unit of drone operators, a highly trained group of sicarios dedicated to tweaking commercial drones and turning them into flying bombs to use against rival cartels and Mexican authorities, according to...

news.yahoo.com

 

[GreenGO Juan]

A lot of people aren't thinking about it yet, but this is the unintended consequence - illegal organizations are learning from Ukraine as well. The amount of defense money that will have to be spent in this arena is gong to be stratospheric.

The Wrong People Just Got Their Hands on an Elite Drone Unit

CJNGCIUDAD JUÁREZ, Mexico—One of Mexico’s most violent cartels has just created its own elite unit of drone operators, a highly trained group of sicarios dedicated to tweaking commercial drones and turning them into flying bombs to use against rival cartels and Mexican authorities, according to...

news.yahoo.com

Yep, It basically gives precision air strike capability to anyone willing to try for relatively cheap. The regulations you mentioned above is likely going to snow ball and get tighter and tighter, especially around manufacturing.

I personally think stuff like this on a cost to performance ratio is in competition with close air support and strike aircraft.

Just as an example the F-16 being gifted. The cost around actually operating those thing is astronomical. Now compare that cost to the drones.

Which comes out ahead?

 

[fpgt72]

Fun fact: after September 16 you can't fly those any longer without a remote ID attached to it. All UAVs must be registered with the FAA and the Remote ID unit is to be as well. Each one needs it own unique Remote ID, no switching them around as the remote ID once logged with the FAA is tied to an individual UAV.

Now you know why I don't fly anymore.

 

[fpgt72]

Depending on the payload most have impact fuses often with double redundancy(RPG), but some that are flying claymore like mines have remote detonation

Nasty piece of work.

I think we could all agree that we need to look at everything that comes out of that section of the world with a big question mark. That includes stuff like this. Something that size is not going to work real well with 4lbs hanging under it like that. Even with a 6 or 8S battery if it does fly it will not fly for very long. Everything is just too small. The blades and motors are just too small.

 

[Longshot231]

From five years ago:



From one year ago:



From one month ago:



With all that said, when are they going to employ robot-soldiers? Think about it. The Ukrainian battlefields are the perfect R&D laboratories for field testing SGT Terminator.

 

[Darayavaus]

BREAKING: Prigozhin Reportedly Killed In Business Jet That Crashed In Russia (18+)

UPD: According to the reports, Yevgeny Prigozhin was listed among the passengers. According to unconfirmed reports, Dmitry Utkin with the...

southfront.press

UPD: According to the reports, Yevgeny Prigozhin was listed among the passengers.
It is reported that another aircraft of Prigozhin is currently maneuvering over Moscow.

On August 23, an aircraft crashed in the Bologovsky district of the Russian Tver region. According to preliminary reports, the accident resulted in deaths of 10 people. Probably none of the passengers survived the incident. Some sources claim that the aircraft was shot down by Russian air defence forces.

According to the local reports, the aircraft was an Embraer 600 business jet with the tail number RA-02795. This aircraft reportedly belonged to the team of Yevgeny Prigozhin and was repeatedly seen in Belarus.

The jet was flying from Moscow and it disappeared in the Tver region.

Footage from the spot confirm that smoke was seen on board. The locals claimed that two explosions thundered before the aircraft crashed.

 

[Darayavaus]

google already says he's dead; the second plane that he "might have been on" is landing in Moscow.

 

[Darayavaus]

earlier today:

Russian Gen. Sergei Surovikin, who once led the overall operation in Ukraine and is known by the grim nickname “General Armageddon” for his effectiveness, has been removed from his position as Air Force commander in an apparent Kremlin purge of officials with links to the Wagner mercenary group that staged a short-lived rebellion in late June.

On Wednesday, state news agency RIA Novosti cited “an informed source” who said Surovikin had been “relieved of his post” and replaced by Col. Gen. Viktor Afzalov, the Air Force chief of staff, marking the first time official Russian sources reported on Surovikin’s status.

For weeks, speculation swirled about the general’s whereabouts, as he has not been seen since he recorded an address urging Wagner mercenary boss Yevgeniy Prigozhin, whose bitter feud with Russian top brass has spilled into open confrontation, to stop his fighters from marching on Moscow on June 24.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Russia shot down Wagner chief's jet . . .

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I wanna see 'em go arrest Yevgeny Prigozhin. Better yet go try and kill his ass......

VooDoo

Russia killed Yevgeny Prigozhin today.

Wagner mercenary boss Yevgeny Prigozhin presumed dead after plane crash near Moscow

The chief of Russian mercenary group Wagner, Yevgeny Prigozhin, is believed to have been killed in a plane crash, Russian state media reported Wednesday.

www.cnbc.com

 

[GreenGO Juan]

 

[Terry Cross]

google already says he's dead; the second plane that he "might have been on" is landing in Moscow.

Am I the only one that thinks it would be utterly stupid or extremely arrogant to put your entire command staff on the same bird?

2 explosions heard before she came down.
That would be consistent with TTPs from most IADS to release 2 interceptors at one target.

Putin's ultimate version of FAFO.....

./

 

[theLBC]

 

[37L1]

Very in your face execution.

 

[Darayavaus]

no pretense.

 

[232593]

Think he’s really dead?

 

[Darayavaus]

Am I the only one that thinks it would be utterly stupid or extremely arrogant to put your entire command staff on the same bird?

2 explosions heard before she came down.
That would be consistent with TTPs from most IADS to release 2 interceptors at one target.

Putin's ultimate version of FAFO.....

./

everyone has been interpreting Prigozhin's moves as theater and misdirection.

it's possible he was just off his rocker.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

LOL yall drone experts could always take your skills to the private sector. Im sure they pay well, although life expectancy ain't so great.
*Experience in Ukraine War preferred...

Operadores Droneros, Inside CJNG's 'Air Force' Unit

"Socalj" for Borderland Beat The Cartel Jalisco Nueva Generación (CJNG) has been at the forefront of cartel drone usage since at least late ...

www.borderlandbeat.com

ETA- @lariat beat me to the punch.. but yahoo is garbage-tier compared to BB

 

[GreenGO Juan]

2 explosions heard before she came down.

Was it hit with a missile, IDK. Maybe the sonic boom, then detonation of the warhead?

The “coup” killed 13 RuAF pilots. Eye for an eye?

 

[37L1]

Was it hit with a missile, IDK. Maybe the sonic boom, then detonation of the warhead?

The “coup” killed 13 RuAF pilots. Eye for an eye?

The videos show it falling with only one wing.

 

[Terry Cross]

Was it hit with a missile, IDK. Maybe the sonic boom, then detonation of the warhead?

The “coup” killed 13 RuAF pilots. Eye for an eye?

If it was a sonic boom, it certainly wouldn't have been from an Embraer 600.

 

[Cowpokey]

 

[GreenGO Juan]

If it was a sonic boom, it certainly wouldn't have been from an Embraer 600.

The “missile”. I though someone said shot down. I am completely throwing darts in the dark here


Again IDK what caused it to come down.

But would be a potential explanation for the 2 bangs. Missile sonic boom and warhead detonation

 

[232593]

View attachment 8211231

Holy shit

 

[Cowpokey]

Holy shit

You're just now hearing about that? It's the whole reason Russia started the invasion to begin with, they were targeting the bio labs from the start.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You're just now hearing about that? It's the whole reason Russia started the invasion to begin with, they were targeting the bio labs from the start.

Countdown until it becomes Senate testimony that the labs were working on horror level evil, developing biological weapons based on genetics and race...
Just like in all the horror science fiction movies.
You didn't think all those home "DNA ancestry" tests were just being used for benign purposes did you?

And more worrying if we are doing it, you can be sure the Chinese are busy doing it as well.

 

[Darayavaus]

The “missile”. I though someone said shot down. I am completely throwing darts in the dark here


Again IDK what caused it to come down.

But would be a potential explanation for the 2 bangs. Missile sonic boom and warhead detonation

"All those who deliberately embarked on the path of betrayal will suffer inevitable punishment, Putin said. The Russian Armed Forces received the necessary order."

S400's or MANPADS. 2 of them fired at & hit the plane.

 

[Darayavaus]

You're just now hearing about that? It's the whole reason Russia started the invasion to begin with, they were targeting the bio labs from the start.

biowarfare tailored against the Slavic population. Dr. Mengele 2.0

 

[Darayavaus]

 

[232593]

You're just now hearing about that? It's the whole reason Russia started the invasion to begin with, they were targeting the bio labs from the start.

No I’ve heard about that for sometime. What is shocking is how they go from “it’s a conspiracy theory” to an acceptable variable they are trying to mitigate the effects of.

Another day in Mystery Babylon.