The whole box at 100 yards

[camocorvette]

I'm glad I found this. I incidentally I posted in the wrong thread(200 yard thread).

My results were better than I thought. I also think I can improve on them and will do as such.

It's just a Marlin Model 25. With a 4x Lyman scope. Shot off a bipod and rear bag. Eley Club was the ammo used.

It has a pretty terrible trigger, it was cut and threaded for a decoy adapter. The muzzle crown is horrendous..
But it was free from a great uncle and I plan to use it. Gonna bed the action and float the barrel. It has a heavy barrel cut at 18 1/4 inches.
I'll add I was also on speaker phone talking this whole 50 shot string. I will try again today if weather permits.

 

[rottenruger]

Well........you certainly put that target down!

 

[camocorvette]

Well........you certainly put that target down!

Haha. Yeah definitely not 1 MOA. It will be interesting to see if I can squeeze any more accuracy out of the gun.

 

[rottenruger]

I've got a Ruger 10/22 and a Savage 17 HMR, both with modest scopes, both of which will shoot 2MOA or better.

I keep wanting to take the Vortex or the Nightforce off of the bigger guns and put it on these little shooters just to see what they will do with good optics........think I might be surprised.

Recently read of someone shooting Long Range with a 17 HMR......didn't think that possible, although that little bullet punches the hell our of a 22L.

But it got me to thinking!

Happy trails......

 

[justin amateur]

SK SemiAuto 40 grain 22lr rated 1132 fps

100 yards with the CZ 455 Varmint with Lilja barrel
Sinclair bipod and rear bag across the chronograph

Rather greasy cartridges, much like SK Magazine.
Had to wipe my fingers after each contact and chambering.
Visual check shows some irregular drive bands and lumpy lube deposits.
Chrony shows almost 100 fps ES...much like SK Magazine.

About what I'd expect from a lower grade SK product.

 

[drglock]

SK SemiAuto 40 grain 22lr rated 1132 fps

100 yards with the CZ 455 Varmint with Lilja barrel
Sinclair bipod and rear bag across the chronograph

Rather greasy cartridges, much like SK Magazine.
Had to wipe my fingers after each contact and chambering.
Visual check shows some irregular drive bands and lumpy lube deposits.
Chrony shows almost 100 fps ES...much like SK Magazine.

About what I'd expect from a lower grade SK product.

I’ve had some SK Semi-Auto shoot pretty decent out to 100yds but the ES gets it much further than that. I’ve got 1500rds of it I use just for practicing off barricades and the likes. But I sure wouldn’t use it for matches.

 

[camocorvette]

I’ve had some SK Semi-Auto shoot pretty decent out to 100yds but the ES gets it much further than that. I’ve got 1500rds of it I use just for practicing off barricades and the likes. But I sure wouldn’t use it for matches.

What's your preferred match ammo? I've used sk match and standard in a Kidd supergrade with great results. Only thing that had short falls was the shooter haha(me).

 

[drglock]

What's your preferred match ammo? I've used sk match and standard in a Kidd supergrade with great results. Only thing that had short falls was the shooter haha(me).

Mostly Lapua Center X, right now I’m using SK Standard(it’s a really good lot). This is in my RimX

 

[camocorvette]

Gotcha. I have looked at that. Wasn't sure if my skill level warranted the extra cost. I think for my amateur NRL experience I'll be good with the sk. But I am gonna pick up a couple boxes of the center x when I can to try it out. Thanks

 

[justin amateur]

Picked up a couple of Bricks of SK High Velocity 40 grain 22lr, rated 1263 fps

Visual check shows excess lubricant and a few dings on the drive bands

CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod, 100 yards

That high stray was not velocity related.
Drive band damage is what I saw before chambering.

74 fps ES and a big stray.
Not my idea of match quality ammo.

 

[justin amateur]

Eley Bullseye Pistol X rated 880 to 959 fps from a pistol

100 yards, 8am, minimal wind
CZ455 Varmint, Lilja, Bipod

Visual check shows lumps of excess lubricant
and quite a few cartridges have visible dings in the drive bands.
Noses look okay but those dings just above the crimp ain't good for accuracy.

...and they ain't...

ES less than 40 fps but those dings in the drive bands cause spread.
To be expected for one of the less expensive Eley products.

 

[justin amateur]

Norma Eco Speed 22...25 grain no lead 22lr cartridges,
even primer is unleaded, rated 1706 fps.

The lubricant is green also, applied a bit heavy,
clumped on the surface of the nose and sides of the bullet

CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod

Over 5 inches of spread at 100 yards for 50 shots.
All chambered, no fail to fires.

MV spread over 120 fps, it's hunting and plinking ammo as labeled.
5 plus inches of spread at 100 yards, expect 1.75 inches at 50 yards
and 0.6 inches at 25 yards.

 

[justin amateur]

What would happen with CCI VMax 17 grain 17 hm2 at 100 yards?

CZ 455 Son of Fuglie, Lilja barrel and Sinclair bipod

Inspection of the cartridges shows typical CCI ammunition.
Uneven case mouths, irregular seating depths, bent plastic tips, loose crimps
and the usual mv spread found in all my CCI rimfire purchases

2.5 inches of vertical, 2.5 inches of horizontal,
Even when trying to wait out the breeze, I misstime the squeeze.
The angular spread matches the wind direction.

That group was shot using the 50 yard zero.
Average impact is about 1.5 inches lower than the aimpoint.

 

[justin amateur]

CCI 17gr 17hm2 Vnt

CZ 455 SOF Lilja, Sinclair bipod
Gorgeous morning, minimal wind, sole shooter at 100 yards.

Uneven seating depths, tilted bullets, bent tips, weak and hot cartridges, split necks
and the results matched the visual problems...

Of 50 cartridges sent, only 43 stayed on the backer. 7 wandered off into the berm.
Same rifle as used with the last box of 17hm2, but when the assembly line produces junk ammo
the results shown are what you get....no rifle can fix cr*p ammo.

 

[ma smith]

Thank you for your service in doing these threads !

 

[WindstormSCR]

This is a fun thread. For giggles (and to make you all feel better) I’ll see what I can do with my CMR-30 and a box of CCI tomorrow. Wind is supposed to be light, just need to decide if I want to test at 50 so I don’t take the dot off, or put a scope on for 100 and rezero the dot after!

 

[justin amateur]

CCI Fast & Furious 17 grain 17 hm2
Lot code J12K04, made September of 2004
donated by another shooter from his personal stash.

Much appreciated as a historical comparison, the hm2 is new territory for me.

CZ 455 SOF Lilja on the Sinclair

My reading turned up brass problems with the early hm2 runs
and these cartridges from 2004 gave me hands on experience.
14 fail to extracts occurred and each time the brass had split.

Without those split necks, results would have been much tighter.
Each time I had a fail to extract, there was a stray.
Remove the 14 outliers and that would be a very nice result at 100 yards.

If not for the weak brass, these earlier 17hm2 cartridges produced decent results.

Compared to the 100 yard results with recent production of hm2 by CCI
those older runs of hm2 look to have produced better accuracy...when the brass held up.

 

[justin amateur]

CCI VMax 17 grain 17 hm2, made August of 2021

Using the CZ 455 SOF Lilja and sent 20 minutes before trying the CCI Fast and Furious shown above.

Bent tips, uneven seating depths, mv differences cause spread.
2.5 inches at 100 yards is a bit too much for me to trust it for head shots on squirrels.
That nickle is a visible reference of the size of the kill zone of a southern grey squirrel.
Place that nickle on the center of the 50 shot group.
How many misses or blood trail crawl offs do you see?

For my purposes, this batch of hm2 is adequate for head shots out to 25 yards.
Center of rodent out to 75 yards when varminting.

The results do meet with CCI's expected 2 moa average at 100 yards.
Average being the disclaimer....some groups better, some worse.

 

[justin amateur]

Hornady VMax 17 grain 17 hm2 made July 2021
Shot just before the CCI VMax above

Same cartridge related spread as the CCI labeled VMax.
It's 2 moa varminting ammunition, center of rodent and meat spray.
For head shots on grey squirrels? There's that nickle again.
Way too many shots fall outside it's area of coverage.
More short range hunting ammunition, can't trust it for humane kills beyond 25 yards.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

Didn't get to shoot this past weekend, to windy.

JA, are those results with your 17 HM2 typical?

 

[justin amateur]

KOD, what you see is what the boxes I have are capable of.
Meets CCI expectations of 2moa average for 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
The VNT showed the same problems as you ran into and is being replaced by CCI.
I'd like to see what a good box of hm2 cartridges are capable of.
What I was sold is short range offhand varminting ammo. Disappointing, eh?
Bulk Fed 36 grain cphp 22lr can do as well, cheaper.

I wasn't surprised by the results though.
Even CCI made 17 hmr shows the same spread at 100 yards.
Why would the hm2 be different?

 

[Elite_KG]

CZ457 MTR cut to 17.5” and threaded.

50 rounds SK Pistol Match at 100 yards.

I think we can do better. Struggled with a little wind and eye strain.

 

[Shoulder-Bump85]

Vudoo 20”MTU
50 at 100 yards. Eley Tenex

 

[Elite_KG]

Vudoo 20”MTU

Eley Tenex 50 rounds at 100 yards.

Nice!

 

[justin amateur]

Bump, if you find a box of "magic" 22lr,
I'm thinking you could get 50 to hide under a quarter at 100 yards.
Won't be easy to get that box of "magic" from the rimfire assembly line lottery.

 

[1813Benny]

A whole box at 100 yards if I include sighters….actual match conditions.

F-SBR / TR
Midas+

 

[justin amateur]

Looking good Benny...but where's my rifle pron?

I do like to see the rifle, setup and view downrange.
Something to go with my coffee on a Monday morning.

 

[1813Benny]

Looking good Benny...but where's my rifle pron?

I do like to see the rifle, setup and view downrange.
Something to go with my coffee on a Monday morning.

 

[justin amateur]

There it is, a bit of flavor to help with the last sips of my coffee.

Much appreciated Benny.


Might need a couple more wind-i-cators there, Benny.
I can still see the berm.

 

[1813Benny]

There it is, a bit of flavor to help with the last sips of my coffee.

Much appreciated Benny.


Might need a couple more wind-i-cators there, Benny.
I can still see the berm.

This was a normal prone/F-SBR match with flags every 2 firing points. At a BR match, you can walk from the firing line to the target on the wind indicators and never touch the ground.

 

[68hoyt]

1813 Benny , tell me a little about your rifle please

 

[1813Benny]

1813 Benny , tell me a little about your rifle please

Stiller 2500x action
Shilen ratchet barrel
Jewel single stage trigger
Nightforce 15-55x
SEB Joypod
Stock is pillar bedded by Alex Sitman of Masterclass Stocks

 

[justin amateur]

I'm thinking of establishing a new holiday.
National Take Your Rifle To The Range Day,
to be held only during the work week
and only when the wind goes dead calm.
It'll be an unpaid holiday, but the inaugural experience was glorious.
I expect it to catch on very quickly.

CCI VMax 17 grain 17hm2 at 100 yards.
Wind was 1 - 2 mph and variable with a hint of mirage.

CZ 455 Fuglie with the new Lilja barrel on the bench, chrony out front.

Opening salvo was promptly at 8:01 am.
Much satisfaction was derived from the calm conditions.
I can see this holiday being appreciated even by pistol and shotgun aficionados,
but the rimfire congregation should find it a most acceptable event.

5 shot groups at 100 yards ranging from 0.7 inches of spread to 1.7 inches.
Aggregate 50 shot spread was 1.9 inches vertical and 1.7 inches horizontal.
Group drift is to be expected, much like forum thread drift.

Don't be envious, you too can participate in this event.
Simply arise a bit earlier than normal on a work day and check the conditions.
If it's cool and still, call in to work and let them know, it's an unpaid holiday.
I'm sure the boss will understand.

 

[justin amateur]

The second event of the new holiday was the running of the Hornady.
Hornady VMax 17 grain 17hm2 at 100 yards

CZ 455 Fuglie and Lilja barrel

0.9 inches for 5 shots up to 1.5 inches
Aggregate for all 50 was 1.9 inches of vertical by 1.6 inches of horizontal

 

[justin amateur]

The final event, due to the generosity of another shooter,
was the sending of the Eley 17 grain 17 hm2
a worthy sacrifice to close out the inaugural ceremonies,
as the Eley hm2 is no longer being manufactured.

CZ 455 Fuglie with a repurposed cardboard backer acting as sunshade.

1.7 inches vertical, 1.3 inches horizontal aggregate spread
0.7 inches up to 1.5 inches for 5 shot group sizes

All in all, a most auspicious beginning to the new holiday.
Hopefully it will be at least a semiannual occurrence,
but there was talk overheard at the diner, of it being a monthly event.

 

[usafa77]

Monthly event sounds great, but what about that wind problem

 

[justin amateur]

That's the brilliance of the scheduling of the holiday.
Those glorious dead calm mornings very rarely coincide with weekends.
Always occur during the work week and annoy the snot out of ya' because you'd rather be shooting.
This way, ya' get up a bit earlier than normal, to verify wind conditions, before calling the holiday.
There's always at least 2 days a month where I'm at work thinking "Dayum, I should be at the range".
Always perfect conditions as I sip my coffee looking out the office windows.
I've given this the thought it deserves, it's a floating holiday, there when you need it.
Not like those scheduled ones where everyone shows up at the same place at the same time, right?

 

[chutinlead]

That's the brilliance of the scheduling of the holiday.
Those glorious dead calm mornings very rarely coincide with weekends.
Always occur during the work week and annoy the snot out of ya' because you'd rather be shooting.
This way, ya' get up a bit earlier than normal, to verify wind conditions, before calling the holiday.
There's always at least 2 days a month where I'm at work thinking "Dayum, I should be at the range".
Always perfect conditions as I sip my coffee looking out the office windows.
I've given this the thought it deserves, it's a floating holiday, there when you need it.
Not like those scheduled ones where everyone shows up at the same place at the same time, right?

I always claim it as healthy mental exercise or better yet....

 

[Turkeytider]

I`ve about decided that ANY sub-MOA group(s) at 100 yards with a .17 HMR needs to be the source of GREAT satisfaction!

 

[justin amateur]

Hornady NTX 15.5 grain 17hm2 provided by @68hoyt
Not much available at the retail level.

CZ 455 Fuglie Lilja barrel

Wind, if any, was likely vertical due to thermal differences.
The range flags were hanging down showing no movement.

4 split cases cause 4 outliers indicated SN.
Major drop in mv each time indicated on the chronograph.

Will the hm2 produce sub moa accuracy at 100 yards?
Occasionally, but it will produce some hefty spread due to CCI cartridge problems.
Split necks have been common. Bent tips, uneven seating depths, tilted seating,
muzzle velocity spread all to be expected. It's varminting ammunition.
Not intended for precision shooting at any distance.

That's the last of the hm2 flavors.
Had no experience with the cartridge before purchasing the barrel for my CZ 455.
After use at 50, 100 and 200 yards across the chronograph, using the barrel block
and factory varmint stock, I have a fairly good understanding of the hm2.

 

[rottenruger]

The final event, due to the generosity of another shooter,
was the sending of the Eley 17 grain 17 hm2
a worthy sacrifice to close out the inaugural ceremonies,
as the Eley hm2 is no longer being manufactured.

CZ 455 Fuglie with a repurposed cardboard backer acting as sunshade.

1.7 inches vertical, 1.3 inches horizontal aggregate spread
0.7 inches up to 1.5 inches for 5 shot group sizes

All in all, a most auspicious beginning to the new holiday.
Hopefully it will be at least a semiannual occurrence,
but there was talk overheard at the diner, of it being a monthly event.

No time to google at the moment. Is this a new round or a new rifle? I've got the 17WSM and the 17HMR and love them both.......VERY impressive little bullet!!! But I only need so many 17 rifles......

 

[justin amateur]

2004 introduced, supposed to be a varminting cartridge.
Less expensive than the 22wmr or 17hmr.

.17 HM2 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[rottenruger]

How did I miss it?

Gonna have to check it out now, plenty of varmints around here thanks to the ladies, but when the ladies go shopping............

 

[justin amateur]

Lapua Long Range 22lr, rated 1106 fps

CZ 455 Lilja, Sinclair bipod, rear bag, 100 yards
Wind variable 1 to 3 mph

Well made cartridges, no visible dents, dings or asymmetry

I was caught several times by unexpected puffs of wind, just as I squeezed.

 

[68hoyt]

Wow ,
Is this one of the best 100 yard performers ?

 

[justin amateur]

Nope, there have been several posted that were sub 1 inch for all 50 shots.
Better rifles, better cartridges, higher level of skill needed to do so.
Beyond my current abilities.

 

[jbell]

Still, it isn’t bad.

 

[Mr. Wolf]

ES of 43 with Center X Long Range?
Granted it is with 50 shots but color me surprised.
Thanks for the valuable info on the arcane rimfire witchery.

 

[ma smith]

ES of 43 with Center X Long Range?
Granted it is with 50 shots but color me surprised.
Thanks for the valuable info on the arcane rimfire witchery.

1089max-1056min = ES of 33
Implied SD is ~8.5

 

[Mr. Wolf]

Oops, math in public...