Vudoo V-22S Single Shot BR/F-Class Action

[Travelor]

I have shot a number of F-Class matches, both CR and RF. RBPB is significantly better as you do not have to break position to load as you do with RBLP actions. However I shoot more BR than F-Class so I've ordered RBLP and will shoot it in both competitions knowing full well how difficult to shoot it in prone.

 

[Travelor]

It is interesting that there are no links or pictures of the Burgess BenchRest Stock other than above's picture that I could find.

Just saying......

 

[Travelor]

Found him

 

[10ring1]

Found him

Can't find him. Do u have a link

 

[JCHayes]

When I ordered my complete rifle, Jill told me the stock that they recommended was the McMillan Kestros, now there is the Burgess BenchRest Stock . I realize that there are constant developmental changes going on.

Which stock is now recommended? Also there was a distinct possibly mentioned of a delay in supplying the rifle due to availability of the McMillan. What will be the expected time of delivery of the BBRS vs McMillan?

It doesn't matter which stock you get. Develop good technique.

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

H:

In terms of material properties no doubt wood damps vibrational energy better than metal. They do not make wooden bells to best of my knowledge.

However, that is only part of the story. The support perhaps has a significant effect on the amplitude of the vibrations in the stock and the amplitude of vibrations in the stock influence the vibrations in the action and barrel. The ideal would be for the support to drain off the maximum amount of energy while still ensuring good tracking, which to me means translation without rotation during recoil.

An interesting experiment would be to compare results from the V22S in a wooden or composite stock and a chassis. That presupposes a RBLP receiver would work in the chassis.

Rick

Rick, I've asked that question about the V-22s in a MPA BA Comp chassis, and yes, it will work in the chassis, per Mike. Interesting question you raise indeed. It would be cool to do a side-by-side test of the same action in a chassis, and a wooden stock, see what the results would look like. Intriguing...

 

[Orden]

Mike, what are we talking for all up weight of the rifle without the scope, with or without tuner. IR 50/50 has weight limits as well as stock width restrictions to meet.

Thanks, Dennis

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike, what are we talking for all up weight of the rifle without the scope, with or without tuner. IR 50/50 has weight limits as well as stock width restrictions to meet.

Thanks, Dennis

Dennis, I've not weighed anything yet, what weight limits are you working within?

MB

 

[Orden]

Mike, IR50/50 3 gun matches have 7.5, 10.5 and 13.5 pound weight limits. Disregarding the Sporter which is the 7.5 gun, most everyone uses the 10.5 gun in both the 10.5 and 13.5 classes. The stocks also have dimensional limits of 3" width forearm and 1" width bottom of the rear stock if it's flat.
I usually use a barrel along the lines of the Shilen R5 or straight .875 barrel depending on the action thread dia.

Dennis

 

[JerryP]

Awful quiet here.

 

[GetReal]

Awful quiet here.

Thats cuz Mike B and company are busy making actual guns. Mine, among them. I for one would rather have him over there than over here.

 

[JerryP]

I agree, but I wish I could put my order in.

 

[GetReal]

I agree, but I wish I could put my order in.

You can. Call them.

 

[JerryP]

No I can't. I tried last week was told they will contact me when I can. I have been on the list for months.

 

[Sgeorge]

I have a deposit on one.

 

[GetReal]

No I can't. I tried last week was told they will contact me when I can. I have been on the list for months.

I got on the list way early. As I understand it, they are "staging" their way thru the list.

 

[GetReal]

I have a deposit on one.

Same.

 

[Candoo]

I talked to Mike today, That boy is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Everybody, we are all trying to give you guys and girls the best Benchrest action that has been produced in America thus far. I have two limited production prototype actions here that I have built into rifles for the purpose of testing. Mike and everyone at Vudoo Gun Works have done a great job with designing something new to get us all to the next level with rimfire precision shooting. I have been given the opportunity to make something that is already a great improvement over what we have had in the past into something that is going to be a class above anything I have seen.

Mike has been very open minded, easy to work with to make beneficial changes to this action for you guys. In making those changes it has set some things back as far as production. I am asking you, please be patient. Mike, Paul, Jill, everyone at Vudoo Gun Works and I will get this done. I can not express to you how excited I am about this. I have been shooting, designing and building precision benchrest shooting equipment for over 9 years now. I have never met a group of people more dedicated to delivering a superior product.

All of that being said, so far I am pleased with the progress that has been made. The action is smooth, easy to load, easy to strip the bolt assembly for cleaning and inspection. The ignition in rimfire is one of the most critical areas, it being constant is absolute. Tolerance relationships have also been addressed where precision is required. That's about all I can divulge at the moment, more to come soon.

I will post some hard data by the end of the week. Until then a few more photos for you to enjoy.

 

[Sgeorge]

Tell MB not to rush, the bar is high in the benchrest game

 

[rick137]

I talked to Mike today, That boy is running around like a chicken with it's head cut off. Everybody, we are all trying to give you guys and girls the best Benchrest action that has been produced in America thus far. I have two limited production prototype actions here that I have built into rifles for the purpose of testing. Mike and everyone at Vudoo Gun Works have done a great job with designing something new to get us all to the next level with rimfire precision shooting. I have been given the opportunity to make something that is already a great improvement over what we have had in the past into something that is going to be a class above anything I have seen.

Mike has been very open minded, easy to work with to make beneficial changes to this action for you guys. In making those changes it has set some things back as far as production. I am asking you, please be patient. Mike, Paul, Jill, everyone at Vudoo Gun Works and I will get this done. I can not express to you how excited I am about this. I have been shooting, designing and building precision benchrest shooting equipment for over 9 years now. I have never met a group of people more dedicated to delivering a superior product.

All of that being said, so far I am pleased with the progress that has been made. The action is smooth, easy to load, easy to strip the bolt assembly for cleaning and inspection. The ignition in rimfire is one of the most critical areas, it being constant is absolute. Tolerance relationships have also been addressed where precision is required. That's about all I can divulge at the moment, more to come soon.

I will post some hard data by the end of the week. Until then a few more photos for you to enjoy.

C:

If that is your mechanical mount and there is nothing you wish to keep proprietary at the moment, would you please show photos and describe its features.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

C:

If that is your mechanical mount and there is nothing you wish to keep proprietary at the moment, would you please show photos and describe its features.

Yes, that's Ivan's One-Piece rest he designed and fabricated. The controls are similar to most of the rests we use, but he's incorporated some innovative features that are unlike some others.

I'll leave it up to Ivan to explain farther if he wishes, because I'm not sure what he considers proprietary or not.

Here a somewhat better pic of it when I was down there a few months ago with one of my rifles sitting in it.

Landy

 

[Sgeorge]

So, how do the rest of us get one?

 

[ELR researcher]

I also have a barreled action on order. Questions:

1. Is Ivan going to be the smith for the barreled actions or "just" a tester? And, if Ivan, his chamber reamer? [My invoice lists "Vudoo target chamber", which I was advised will be the production chamber. But I'm reasonably sure that Ivan has his own - proprietary?]
2. What is the length of the flat section of the 11mm dove tails? [My preferred rings are .750 "long".] See rendering at post #276.

Thanks.

 

[rick137]

Yes, that's Ivan's One-Piece rest he designed and fabricated. The controls are similar to most of the rests we use, but he's incorporated some innovative features that are unlike some others.

I'll leave it up to Ivan to explain farther if he wishes, because I'm not sure what he considers proprietary or not.

Here a somewhat better pic of it when I was down there a few months ago with one of my rifles sitting in it.

Landy

@HuskerP7M8:

Thanks for the intel. If provided will be interested in the details. The best one piece mechanical rest I have seen was designed? and manufactured by @Tiger_Shilone. Roller bearings provide both horizontal and vertical support. Although neither a mechanical engineer nor a machinist I cannot see how any support could be superior in terms of friction with lateral stability.

 

[HuskerP7M8]

Hi Rick,

I don't want to derail this thread, but I wanted to make a few quick comments.

Rests utilizing roller bearings have been around a long time. I personally know of at least 4 different variations over the last 40 years or so. In recent years the most popular has been the one manufactured by Cliff Arnold (Pic below of mine in my tunnel).

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of using a near frictionless rest is in its ability to eliminate static friction and maintain very consistent dynamic friction. Almost as important is the ability to make almost infinite adjustments in impeding recoil, because many rifles need varying amounts of friction to shoot their best.

Landy

 

[RAVAGE88]

Hi Rick,

I don't want to derail this thread, but I wanted to make a few quick comments.

Rests utilizing roller bearings have been around a long time. I personally know of at least 4 different variations over the last 40 years or so. In recent years the most popular has been the one manufactured by Cliff Arnold (Pic below of mine in my tunnel).

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of using a near frictionless rest is in its ability to eliminate static friction and maintain very consistent dynamic friction. Almost as important is the ability to make almost infinite adjustments in impeding recoil, because many rifles need varying amounts of friction to shoot their best.

Landy

Not at all a derail Landy, feel free to share whatever you like.

MB

 

[Sgeorge]

Landry is one guy that has always had a bunch of toys and the wherewithal to test them to the nth degree. Lol

 

[marks_a18138]

This is awesome! The BR world is so scared of the new V22S action that "THE KEEPER OF ALL RIMFIRE HISTORY FOR BILL CALFEE" Tony Harper is already calling out Mike Bush and Ivan Wells for a steel cage match at one of the Benchrest nationals!!!! 6 months ago the V22S was NOTHING in the eyes of the BR crowed! Strange how the tide has turned and not one shot from the V22S has even been fired in competition! http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?103178-Rifle-match-of-the-year!!!!

 

[Kevin1]

Landy is so knowledgeable and his posts are so thoughtful that it’s always a pleasure to read.

On a separate note I have a question regarding the Vudoo single shot. What (if anything) makes this action inherently more accurate than the V22 repeater....Let me actually rephrase this. If you convert the Vudoo single action (with all its innovations) into a repeater; and if you use a single shot adapter, will you give up any accuracy?

 

[GetReal]

Landy is so knowledgeable and his posts are so thoughtful that it’s always a pleasure to read.

On a separate note I have a question regarding the Vudoo single shot. What (if anything) makes this action inherently more accurate than the V22 repeater....Let me actually rephrase this. If you convert the Vudoo single action (with all its innovations) into a repeater; and if you use a single shot adapter, will you give up any accuracy?

The single shot has no magazine port... You'd have to cut the bottom out of the receiver which would most likely Sacrifice its integrity.

The repeater is ridiculously accurate in its own right so if you want a repeater just get a repeater.

The advantage of the single shot is largely in its trigger geometry.

 

[rick137]

Hi Rick,

I don't want to derail this thread, but I wanted to make a few quick comments.

Rests utilizing roller bearings have been around a long time. I personally know of at least 4 different variations over the last 40 years or so. In recent years the most popular has been the one manufactured by Cliff Arnold (Pic below of mine in my tunnel).

In my opinion, the biggest advantage of using a near frictionless rest is in its ability to eliminate static friction and maintain very consistent dynamic friction. Almost as important is the ability to make almost infinite adjustments in impeding recoil, because many rifles need varying amounts of friction to shoot their best.

Landy

Landy:

Thanks for the intel. I suspect others reading this thread are as ignorant of benchrest shooting as I. And seems to me an integral part of benchrest accuracy is the support so it is not irrelevant.

Does your remark "many rifles need varying amounts of friction to shoot their best" mean there is an optimum amount of recoil since the greater the sliding friction the less the recoil.? If so could you explain why there is an optimum amount of recoil other than not having the recoil cause the rifle to come off the rest. The general motion of an elastic solid consists of a translation, rigid body rotation and vibration. With the ideal support there would only be translation and minimal vibration of the rifle. Perhaps a certain amount of rigid body rotation is inevitable during recoil with any support and it increases with the amount of translation. So more friction, less translation and less rigid body rotation?

Good stuff.

Rick

 

[rick137]

This is awesome! The BR world is so scared of the new V22S action that "THE KEEPER OF ALL RIMFIRE HISTORY FOR BILL CALFEE" Tony Harper is already calling out Mike Bush and Ivan Wells for a steel cage match at one of the Benchrest nationals!!!! 6 months ago the V22S was NOTHING in the eyes of the BR crowed! Strange how the tide has turned and not one shot from the V22S has even been fired in competition! http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?103178-Rifle-match-of-the-year!!!!

For the uninitiated what is a steel cage match?

 

[Sgeorge]

A figure of speech in this case. Lol

 

[Ozark Shooter]

For the uninitiated what is a steel cage match?

"A Steel Cage match is a wrestling match type where two or more opponents must escape a steel cage to become the victor, though sometimes the rules are bent where they may also win via pin or submission as well." from https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Steel_Cage_match

 

[jstiller]

Guys, be careful before you go spend upwards of a $1000 on a good one piece rest. There are multiple ones out there and they are all similar, but different. You really have to fit them to your gun. Most of the fitting is in the front support, which is interchangeable on most rests. There are roller, delrin slider, fuzz button and a few other designs on them. IF you go a very low friction route, you need bungee returns most likely. The delrin sliders are most common with the fuzz button next. Stock material, paint, clear coatings etc etc all go into how it reacts with the top and how much friction you may need. To get ultimate accuracy, the rest must be tuned into the overall system. I will guarantee that you can get vertical and other issues if not tuned right (ask me how I know). Personally, I like the fuzz button front with more friction than less using my very dense dymalux stock materials uncoated. I realize that most of this is fairly new to most of this crowd, but there are decades of past history in rimfire benchrest to look back on for help.

Jessica Pappas, Cliff Arnold, John Pierce and Killoughs PQP line are the most popular. The rest that Ivan uses is his design and depends on his stock design to go with it. Be sure that all the pieces can play together for sure. Prices and quality vary so I seriously recommend trying to shoot off of one if you can before you buy. If not try to see one or talk to some guys using them. Paul at Killough Shooting Sports is probably the best go to guy in the benchrest world for information, recommendations and the products you need.

 

[45ACP223]

The single shot has no magazine port... You'd have to cut the bottom out of the receiver which would most likely Sacrifice its integrity.

The repeater is ridiculously accurate in its own right so if you want a repeater just get a repeater.

The advantage of the single shot is largely in its trigger geometry.

Agree, trigger geometry, and I'm assuming larger port for hand feeding ammo. I've read that it will have a new firing pin configuration and assume profiled for better iginition, 3 lug vs. 2 lug bolt design, and the barrel will have a new match chamber (tighter tolerances).

 

[Hozzie]

This is awesome! The BR world is so scared of the new V22S action that "THE KEEPER OF ALL RIMFIRE HISTORY FOR BILL CALFEE" Tony Harper is already calling out Mike Bush and Ivan Wells for a steel cage match at one of the Benchrest nationals!!!! 6 months ago the V22S was NOTHING in the eyes of the BR crowed! Strange how the tide has turned and not one shot from the V22S has even been fired in competition! http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?103178-Rifle-match-of-the-year!!!!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The BR crowd isn't scared, we are skeptical. Not in the sense that it wont be a good action, but rather that it hasn't proven a single thing yet. Over the many years there have been a lot of "this is going to change the BR world" talk about new products, etc. For the most part, very few "change the world". That doesn't mean it won't be nothing but it also doesn't mean it will be the action to end all actions. I suspect at the end of the day, it will be just about like most other actions in this game. When put together with a great barrel, great ammo, and great shooter, it will do great. When not, it probably won't. That's not a knock on the V22 action. It's a knock on how difficult it is to get a complete system together that gives the results we need to win.

I won't get into the steel cage match talk, but this kind of thing has been going on forever. This is the new gadget and guru(s) vs the old gadget and guru, blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of talk in this game and that's all it is. We will know soon enough the results of Mike and Ivan's work. I expect it to be very good. But it is one data point in a much larger pond.

Don't get me wrong, it can be fun to talk about, but thinking anyone is scared is kind of funny. We just wait for results. If and when the sustained results come in, you will see all of us moving platforms. Until then, it's a wait and see game. No one I know is rooting against anything. We all feel competition among manufacturers leads to better products overall. In time we will find out.

 

[Sgeorge]

Yes, however, it is those single data points that make the old gurus crazy.

 

[Sagittarius]

I would love to have one of those nice one-piece rests but unfortunately, they're illegal for the matches I shoot.

 

[RAVAGE88]

On a separate note I have a question regarding the Vudoo single shot. What (if anything) makes this action inherently more accurate than the V22 repeater....Let me actually rephrase this. If you convert the Vudoo single action (with all its innovations) into a repeater; and if you use a single shot adapter, will you give up any accuracy?

This is a great question and in short, the differences are quite significant. One doesn’t simply remove the magazine port and create a single shot, at least, one shouldn’t expect to have a quality single shot just by doing so.

So why are the differences significant? Because the intended use is different. Understanding that rimfire is tons more complex than centerfire, the approach to rimfire has to be far more detailed....ALL the little things matter as it relates to an expected outcome and the higher the expectations, the greater the level of detail.

So, the differences....Obviously, there’s no magazine port and there’s three lugs instead of two, but overall, the V-22S is dimensionally tighter. This is because any amount of excess movement in various places create what are referred to as “energy leaks,” and these leaks rob performance in a big way. So, we’ve painstakingly paid close attention to every detail. So why don’t we do the same thing in a repeater? Very simple....the intended use is different, the repeater will have applied finishes that have a measurable thickness and the environments they’re used in are more unfriendly than the single shot environment.

In essence, the V-22S is a completely different animal....

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The BR crowd isn't scared, we are skeptical. Not in the sense that it wont be a good action, but rather that it hasn't proven a single thing yet. Over the many years there have been a lot of "this is going to change the BR world" talk about new products, etc. For the most part, very few "change the world". That doesn't mean it won't be nothing but it also doesn't mean it will be the action to end all actions. I suspect at the end of the day, it will be just about like most other actions in this game. When put together with a great barrel, great ammo, and great shooter, it will do great. When not, it probably won't. That's not a knock on the V22 action. It's a knock on how difficult it is to get a complete system together that gives the results we need to win.

I won't get into the steel cage match talk, but this kind of thing has been going on forever. This is the new gadget and guru(s) vs the old gadget and guru, blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of talk in this game and that's all it is. We will know soon enough the results of Mike and Ivan's work. I expect it to be very good. But it is one data point in a much larger pond.

Don't get me wrong, it can be fun to talk about, but thinking anyone is scared is kind of funny. We just wait for results. If and when the sustained results come in, you will see all of us moving platforms. Until then, it's a wait and see game. No one I know is rooting against anything. We all feel competition among manufacturers leads to better products overall. In time we will find out.

This is a very good post Hozzie and not surprising that it’s quite accurate. I/we appreciate your participation here as it’s good to see positive interaction between differing areas of the shooting community especially as it relates to what we’re all passionate about. The community here at Sniper’s Hide is a welcoming bunch, so please feel free to jump in anytime.

It’s no secret that a lot of work has gone into what has become the V-22S and it’s interesting to see the emotion that such a thing stirs. Knowing there are good actions out there, we all know nothing is perfect so the goals for the V-22S were built around all the areas that have typically required a lot of attention. One of the words we hear a lot as it relates to various actions is “blueprint,” so that‘s where I started with the V-22S by asking the simple question, “why?” Through what has been an incredible BR career, Ivan has answered all those questions with the data others don’t seem to have.

All this being said though, we all know the action is just one part of a “system,” so a lot has been done to ensure that the action isn’t the only thing being introduced as this whole thing gets going.

Thanks,
MB

 

[10ring1]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The BR crowd isn't scared, we are skeptical. Not in the sense that it wont be a good action, but rather that it hasn't proven a single thing yet. Over the many years there have been a lot of "this is going to change the BR world" talk about new products, etc. For the most part, very few "change the world". That doesn't mean it won't be nothing but it also doesn't mean it will be the action to end all actions. I suspect at the end of the day, it will be just about like most other actions in this game. When put together with a great barrel, great ammo, and great shooter, it will do great. When not, it probably won't. That's not a knock on the V22 action. It's a knock on how difficult it is to get a complete system together that gives the results we need to win.

I won't get into the steel cage match talk, but this kind of thing has been going on forever. This is the new gadget and guru(s) vs the old gadget and guru, blah, blah, blah. There is a lot of talk in this game and that's all it is. We will know soon enough the results of Mike and Ivan's work. I expect it to be very good. But it is one data point in a much larger pond.

Don't get me wrong, it can be fun to talk about, but thinking anyone is scared is kind of funny. We just wait for results. If and when the sustained results come in, you will see all of us moving platforms. Until then, it's a wait and see game. No one I know is rooting against anything. We all feel competition among manufacturers leads to better products overall. In time we will find out.

Well, true to a point, but in all fairness, Vudoo did revolutionize the 22 repeater from the ground up. They have set the bar for which all others now mimic. So if anyone has the wherewithal to make that big impact to the benchrest community, it will be Vudoo's fresh approach. Their track record already is undeniably groundbreaking. So, we shall see... I betting the odds that the BR community will feel the change.

 

[GetReal]

I repeated this 0.47" grp at 100yd today with the V-22 R....

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

Fellas, check out this new thread. A new BR Match is being implemented by Ivan/Mike. Pretty cool info.

 

[Tim7139]

Ivan and Mike are signed up for this, Ivan reposted the match from (I suspect) the organizer.
Nowhere have I read they are behind it.......apologies if this is wrong.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Ivan and Mike are signed up for this, Ivan reposted the match from (I suspect) the organizer.
Nowhere have I read they are behind it.......apologies if this is wrong.

Of course we're behind it. Ivan developed the target and overall format and we're teamed to get this out there with more to come to the BR community.

MB

 

[Tim7139]

Of course we're behind it. Ivan developed the target and overall format and we're teamed to get this out there with more to come to the BR community.

MB

well damn....I stand corrected.
so, out of curiosity, why the new venue as opposed to the primary 2 sanctioning bodies ?

 

[RAVAGE88]

well damn....I stand corrected.
so, out of curiosity, why the new venue as opposed to the primary 2 sanctioning bodies ?

No worries Dude, I hope I didn't sound brash, as that wasn't my intent.

Because it's time to pay it forward so others can learn, enjoy, have fun and be welcomed.

MB

 

[Tim7139]

No worries Dude, I hope I didn't sound brash, as that wasn't my intent.

Because it's time to pay it forward so others can learn, enjoy, have fun and be welcomed.

MB

Hell no. Actually got to look around at followup stuff posted and saw the target with the two monikers, so that would be a DUH on me. Looks like fun, if it ever moves anywhere in the neighborhood it would be a blast to shoot that target. Looks like a decent "factory" class without making It headache worthy.
Good luck with the effort.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Hell no. Actually got to look around at followup stuff posted and saw the target with the two monikers, so that would be a DUH on me. Looks like fun, if it ever moves anywhere in the neighborhood it would be a blast to shoot that target. Looks like a decent "factory" class without making It headache worthy.
Good luck with the effort.

Thanks Tim, based on the approach, I believe it'll grow. Thanks and reach out anytime....

MB