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Just arrived. 5 lots, 100rd each. I'll get out Monday or Tuesday and test them.
Was just talking to Mike he's finishing up the muzzles on my three Rim X barrels today.
He said the VCC and the 1.2 straight are sold, he's got one M24 Rim X Barrel left whoever takes it he said free shipping.
He said the VCC and the 1.2 straight are sold, he's got one M24 Rim X Barrel left whoever takes it he said free shipping.
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Very impressive. How many rounds did you get through the barrel before you started seeing groups under .5"? Did you have to season the barrel for the eley match or did it hammer like this immediately?
Looking at the first groups down my 22" ACE 1.2" straight it was hammering groups in the 0.1's to 0.2's with different lots of CX, Midas+, R50, RWS Special Match and SK+......
I have a 20" ACE 1.2" about to ship from Manzella along with a 1.2" Krieger and 1.2" Green Mountain.
I have a 20" ACE 1.2" about to ship from Manzella along with a 1.2" Krieger and 1.2" Green Mountain.
Mike spun me up a 22" M24 with an Ace blank and so far I've been having a difficult time getting it settled in. This is my first precision 22 so I'm definitely new to the lot sorting and ammo testing world. Its also possible that I'm overlooking something else with my build.
Everything torqued to manufacturer spec using torque screwdriver/ torque wrench for barrel. Headspace checked with provided no go gauge.
RimX
Aero solus chassis
Razor iii 6-36 sitting in a leupold one piece mount.
Ace blank 22" finished, threaded 1/2-28 for dead air mask (I tried grouping with/without the mask, and with/without the blended thread protector).
TT diamond
Atlas CAL
heavy rear bag
So far Ive tried 14 types of ammo with four or more 5 shot groups using each type. Tenex, Centerx, Midas plus, eley black box match, both types of cci green tag, eley pistol bullseye, norma match, wolf match extra, etc with none of them able to reliably produce anything under .45". Most of the higher end stuff shot around .5". I haven't found any flavor that reliably shoots under .4". The best group I shot to date was actually cheap cci minimag varmints at .24". I'm mostly writing that one off as luck. First 2 outings were clear days with almost zero wind.
After the first 500 rounds of misc stuff down the pipe I cleaned it, and went back out with the highest performing stuff. I shot more groups with the eley black and norma match, this time 10 shot groups. It was windier this time than the previous 2 outings so I wasn't surprised to see the groups open up even more.
Just as a point of comparison, I took my 10/22 out on the same windy day. I used the R3 on the 10/22 so optics were equal. Its a lightweight hunting build with a volquartsen carbon fiber barrel, cheap bipod, and factory ruger trigger (like 5lbs). the first 10 shot group with the 10/22 with the first ammo I grabbed (norma match) shot a group identical to the two 10 shot groups from the rimx.
I'm not really sure what to do next other than shooting more. It seems like everyone with a manzella barrel shoots lights out immediately with it, so I'm left scratching my head. Is 1 MOA at 50 really what I should expect even with top dollar ammo? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
So many variables it's so hard for me to tell you what the problem is over the internet. Is it your bench, is it your ammo, is it your chassis, trigger, barrel, you. Idk
If you get to a point where you want to know I'd the barrel is the issue feel free to send it to me and I'd be glad to screw it on my RimX and test it and let you know my results. Then you can talk to Mike if it's a barrel issue.
If you get to a point where you want to know I'd the barrel is the issue feel free to send it to me and I'd be glad to screw it on my RimX and test it and let you know my results. Then you can talk to Mike if it's a barrel issue.
Thank you for the offer. I think for now I'm going to keep shooting it and see if I can find an ammo it likes more than what I've tested. If I can't figure it out I might have to take you up on it. It would at least give me the peace of mind that its NOT a barrel problem. I know Mike does excellent work and stands behind every barrel he cuts, but I don't want to go down that path unless I know 100% its a barrel issue.
No problem. Id be more than glad to test it if you want.
I just want to say. Walking out and shooting groups in the 0.1s and 0.2s is not as easy as it sounds. Especially if it's not something you've done before.
Make sure you have a stable concrete bench or you may be better off shooting prone.. make sure you aren't jerking the trigger. I run a very light Bix N Andy..
Then test multiple lots of quality ammo. CenterX, Midas, R50, SK RM, SK+....
Got out today to shoot this Eley Tenex test lot brick. Conditions were miserable. Windy as hell and raining but my 22" Mullerworks 13t 8MI with my 22LR Match Eachus Chamber was hammering!!
You asked to see the target of the Tenex lot test. Just an FYI this wasn't tested on my RimX.. it's my 2500x
Here the target below. So I shot the 2 10shot groups on a cleaned cold barrel to foul it with some Eley Match.
I then shot 25 shots of each lot in 5 shot groups from left to right Recording velocity and ES/SD. I then moved down 1 row for each new lot as labeled...
After I was done shooting all 5 Tenex lots, I shot the 3 groups at the very top of the target. First group was some Eley Match to foul the barrel after switching from Tenex to Match. The next 2 groups labeled Eley Match 03 is the case of Eley Match I bought last month from lot testing... almost both groups in the 0.0X's..
I like lot labeled Tenex - 3 ... ES 13 and SD 4 and all groups but one in the 0.0X's and 0.1X's. I pulled one shot left on that one group...
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Holy shit that is impressive that 2500 is a hammer!!! I’m going to have to put you on ignore or I’m going to end up with a 2500 next LOL!!
just a thought but how are you measuring you're groups? outside edge to outside edge - .223? using calipers?
how tight is the cant mechanism on the atlas cal / how easy is it to cant the rifle? it's not too hard on either of my Atlas bi-pods to tilt affecting groups.
when you say heavy bag, how fixed is it? is it something like an armageddon gear shmedium with heavy sand or is something like a protektor or edgewood "bag" used in f-class/benchrest?
as padom stated, lot testing is key. if you only have one lot from each make of ammo it's tough to get the results you're looking for. i have one lot of center-x that consistently shot .5's to .7's.
When shooting rimfire everything is magnified. For example, when shooting on that wobbly wooden bench in my above pics today, I don't touch the table or the gun. I literally just pull the trigger.. my BNA Comp 2 stage 90degree flat trigger is set to 4oz
If I put my arms on that wooden bench my poi moves 1".. if I put my cheek on the stock, the poi moves 0.5"
This is why most benchrest and ARA are shot off concrete benches.
Sorry I didn't post the pic. Here my 2500x Tenex lot testing setup today..
If I put my arms on that wooden bench my poi moves 1".. if I put my cheek on the stock, the poi moves 0.5"
This is why most benchrest and ARA are shot off concrete benches.
Sorry I didn't post the pic. Here my 2500x Tenex lot testing setup today..
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I have a pair of calipers I use to measure edge to edge -.223.
The cant mechanism is tight but not welded down or anything. I'm sure I could cant the gun if I'm not careful.
Rear bag is just a small no name bag filled with a dense sand. Certainly not a benchrest/fclass setup by any means
I know I'm not as steady as I could be, but I'm also not looking for benchrest levels of precision (I think). My goal was anything under .4"
I think my lot testing journey might begin soon. Its certainly possible I just got unlucky with the different lots I had on hand.
now THAT is a serious setup. Definitely sturdier than mine lol.
I'm used to the centerfire world where it took me a little effort, no lot testing, and factory gear to shoot 3/4 moa at 100. My bergara loves the norma golden target which I believe is the cheapest match grade 6.5 cm out there. I'm lucky enough
I naively thought it would be as easy to produce .4s at 50 with rimfire.
I'm also curious if my chassis (Aero solus) could be negatively impacting me. I had to really tinker with both the chassis and the rimx mag to get the feeding OK. I say ok because its still pretty stiff and not what I would consider to be smooth operation. I dont have anything to compare it to other than a bergara premier centerfire action so idk if its par for the course or not. I may keep an eye out for a cheap xrs or KRG bravo to put the rimx into just to try. The bergara stock doesn't have enough clearance for the m24 profile otherwise I would've tried that.
Dom are you able to shoot any cci stuff with your chamber? I found that all flavors of cci resulted in very stiff bolt closes on my gun. Despite the difficulty, the cci shot just as good as the rest of the high end stuff. My best group to date is still with minimags lol.
No, CCI SV is too long. Very hard bolt close and I dont shoot it in my chamber.
Proven and tested in my chamber
All flavors of Lapua
All flavors of SK
Federal Gold Medal Match, Ultramatch and Target (Ultramatch was only version that performed)
Wolf Match Extra (not great results on multiple lots tested)
RWS R50, Special Match
Eley Match and Eley Tenex
I actually worked with @Precision Underground years ago to develop their 3D ELR rear Bag for load development and lot testing my RimX and Vudoo with a bipod up front. This thing really locks down the rear and is solid if your looking for a solid rear bag for lot testing and load development.
All my RimX barrel testing reviews done in the past were done with a XLR Envy, Harris bipod (less play then my Atlas) and this 3D ELR @Precision Underground rear bag shot prone...
Also, an Atlas CAL is not the best bipod to shoot tiny 22LR groups. It has movement in the mechanism by design. I honestly found early on years ago that Atlas was not the best bipod to use when looking to shoot very tiny 22LR groups. I found a good old Harris bipod with Area419 ARCA was much more solid and stable up front. I have Atlas PSR, 5-H and CAL and Super CAL and they are excellent bipods, especially for centerfire. but not the best bipod to shoot submoa groups with rimfire..
Also, whats your TT Diamond pull weight set to? Have you checked your trigger pull weight? While 1-2Lb is fine for a Centerfire, rimfire magnifies any trigger pull that is not 100% straight back to the rear on target down range...
My RimX has a Bix N Andy TacSport Pro 2 stage with a 90 degree flat shoe and the second stage pull weight is set to 6oz. Just some other things to look at.. The harder you have to pull, ESPECIALLY if your setup isnt rock solid stable, the more chance you have to pull your rifle slightly left or slightly right during trigger pull which in turn opens up those groups. Easy to see if you have horizontal dispersion at 50yds in your groups..
I have noticed some movement in the atlas bipod for sure. I do my best to preload it while shooting but something more rigid wouldn't hurt. I'll add a harris to the list of things to buy lol. That rear bag you sent also looks very nice. Certainly nicer than the one I'm using now.
I took it out again yesterday for a little bit and put another 100rnds of norma match through it. Half was on paper at 50 and the other half was just plinking at 100. Of my 10 groups on paper, 3 of them were under .4". This was after I took the barrel off and retorqued to 40ftlbs.
I have my TT set around a pound or just a little less. Next time I shoot I'll see how low we can go. I believe they advertise 4oz as well.
do you have any recommendations for shops that will sell test bricks of ammo? I've heard whidden is good but I am open to others as well.
Whidden.. I grabbed their Eley Match, SK RM, SK+ and Eley Tenex test lot bricks. I found 2 good shooting lots of SK+ in that test lot brick, I didnt find anything great in the SK RM test lot brick and I found 2 great lots with 1 excellent lot in the Eley Match test lot brick....
Just ordered a test brick of eley team and a brick of all 3 lots of norma match
Eley Team says 3 In Stock when I click on Eley Team and click the drop down and select Test Lot at the bottom of the list.
If you went to another ammo like Eley Match, SK+, SK RM then yes those test lot bricks are out of stock. I talked to Whidden about this for a while a few weeks ago. What the said is, they need to have at least 1 or more extra cases of each lot on hand to put a test lot brick together.. If they dont have that then test lot bricks are out of stock until they get another shipment.
I never could get any consistency out of Norma Match. I could shoot some tight groups with random flyers consistently.. For the same price Ive had way better results from lot tested SK Standard +
My 10/22 really likes the norma match so it wont be a huge loss if the rimx doesn't. Worst case I use it as practice ammo in the Rimx.
I'll have to keep an eye out for whidden restocking their other test bricks. Also the website said there were 3 bricks of eley team before I bought, so one of those might be mine lol.
Would you happen to have any experience with a Thunderbeast Arms bipod? Your comment on the Atlas CAL (what I am currently using) has me wondering if the TBAC might be an upgrade yet still remain compatible with my RRS SC-ARC clamp that I really really like. I also had my eyes on a CKYE Pod but have a feeling that is probably just as "wiggly" as the CAL.
Cyke pod is even more sloppy than the Atlas....the Accu-tac bipods are some of if not the most solid bipods there are.
I do not.
And understand, for shooting prone, at distance and in PRS style comps these bipods will work just fine and are their intended purpose...
But shooting benchrest level accuracy hammering out groups in the 0.0X's and 0.01X's consistently that's not the best setup to use...
I had an Accu-Tac and it did not play nice with the arca forend of my 1st gen MDT HNT chassis (one reason I really like the RRS clamp). Thanks for the recommendation, perhaps I need to revisit Accu-Tac.
Accu-Tac Arca clamp is 100% adjustable so you should not have any issues fitting it to any Arca rail.
Here was my standard RimX setup for years that I tested a ton of barrels and ammo lots with..
Harris bipod, Area419 QD arca Harris adapter and spiked feet and a rabbit ear rear bag. This is a VERY stable setup. Especially when shot prone with the spikes dug in the ground because there is no table/bench wobble or movement
And here is the target I shot that day testing another Green Mountain barrel 50rd of each lot in 5 shot groups.. best lots that day were 2 different lots of CenterX that shot a 50rd agg of 0.249" and a 6x5 30rd AGG of 0.221" the other lot of CenterX shot a 0.255" 50rd AGG and a 0.212" 6x5 30rd AGG
Harris bipod, Area419 QD arca Harris adapter and spiked feet and a rabbit ear rear bag. This is a VERY stable setup. Especially when shot prone with the spikes dug in the ground because there is no table/bench wobble or movement
And here is the target I shot that day testing another Green Mountain barrel 50rd of each lot in 5 shot groups.. best lots that day were 2 different lots of CenterX that shot a 50rd agg of 0.249" and a 6x5 30rd AGG of 0.221" the other lot of CenterX shot a 0.255" 50rd AGG and a 0.212" 6x5 30rd AGG
We're up and running. New build, taken it a few times and it's a total shooter. I'm working through a couple of small issues as it looks like a few others have run into as well..
Ejection strength seems to be OK, but I do seem to get a few loose cases stuck in the receiver. My guess is that they're ejecting too hard upward and hitting the inside of the chamber and then getting stuck? I seem to have the mag ride height dialed in as feeding is decent, however there's a lot of side to side play with the magazines in my AAC MDT Elite Chasis. I did install the 'pins' within the mag-well to take up slack, but I do have a decent left/right wiggle on the magazines. I fear this is somehow playing into the feed and or extraction issues?
After my word vomit; did anyone put together a quick guide showing optimal mag ride/height and or check-list of fitting to make sure we're runnning top notch?
Ejection strength seems to be OK, but I do seem to get a few loose cases stuck in the receiver. My guess is that they're ejecting too hard upward and hitting the inside of the chamber and then getting stuck? I seem to have the mag ride height dialed in as feeding is decent, however there's a lot of side to side play with the magazines in my AAC MDT Elite Chasis. I did install the 'pins' within the mag-well to take up slack, but I do have a decent left/right wiggle on the magazines. I fear this is somehow playing into the feed and or extraction issues?
After my word vomit; did anyone put together a quick guide showing optimal mag ride/height and or check-list of fitting to make sure we're runnning top notch?
Attachments
I have my same extractor on my RimX serial #005 with over 40,000rd on it. Extracts and ejects perfectly. Lapua, Eley, RWS
Take the bolt out and inspect your extractor. Did you close it on a round when first setting it up and break your extractor? Look for chips...if you close on a round it will break your extractor and need to be replaced
Just something to check
Where did you see mention of an "Eley specific extractor". My Rimx is not as old as Padom's, 431, but, it has the original extractor and I have used 5 different Eley, Lapua, SK, CCI, Rem tgt and all function just fine. I have had one or 2 not clear and recently had a fail to engage. I checked with Zermatt and it is possible that I "short stroked".
I have gone through this thread a couple of times, all 62 pages (good informative reading) and haven't seen any mention of any non standard extractors.
I have gone through this thread a couple of times, all 62 pages (good informative reading) and haven't seen any mention of any non standard extractors.
I'm not aware of any Eley specific extractor either.
Only time I've had a case stay in the raceway is when I didn't pull the bolt all the way to the rear or way too slow...
Only time I've had a case stay in the raceway is when I didn't pull the bolt all the way to the rear or way too slow...
If you click on 'specifics' at the bottom of Zermatt's extractor page it'll list an "eley specific".
www.zermattarms.com
RimX Extractor Kit - Zermätt Arms Website
RimX Extractor Kit: Kit includes (1) extractor and (2) extractor set screws This is a wear item and can expire at random intervals. Replacing this item will help with EXTRACTION from the barrel and is not typically needed in instances of weak EJECTION but may be helpful for those situations as...
www.zermattarms.com
If you click on 'specifics' at the bottom of Zermatt's extractor page it'll list an "eley specific".
RimX Extractor Kit - Zermätt Arms Website
RimX Extractor Kit: Kit includes (1) extractor and (2) extractor set screws This is a wear item and can expire at random intervals. Replacing this item will help with EXTRACTION from the barrel and is not typically needed in instances of weak EJECTION but may be helpful for those situations as...
News to me. But either way I don't have that extractor and I've shot a lot of Eley Match without any issues
@Zermatt Arms
Ray any insight on this Eley specific extractor on the website? What exactly is different with this extractor vs say the original extractor??
the groove under the extractor has less depth ?
Ray any insight on this Eley specific extractor on the website? What exactly is different with this extractor vs say the original extractor??
the groove under the extractor has less depth ?
I spoke with Aaron at Zermatt about this happening to me and he indicated that is probably what happened to me.
I have been shooting Eley pretty much exclusively and haven't noticed any difference when I shoot an occasional SK or Lapua (mostly SK).
Totally off topic, @padom, what is the neck dia on your 6BR chamber? Mike has a barrel of mine in this queue. pm will be fine.
Thanks Wally
Exactly, the groove in the extractor for the rim has been tightened up to account for the inherently thinner rims of Eley ammunition. This has helped with weak ejection of Eley ammunition in systems that have exhibited that downside.
Thank you - Ray
I spoke with Ray about this extractor and compatibility with other than Eley. His take is, it will not work well with other than Eley which probably means, it would not capture the thicker rim ammo. I have a ton of Eley, but also some SK and Lapua. I've shot lots of Eley and the problem is infrequent enough that I think if I am more careful in fully cycling the bolt and not doing it slowly, it wouldn't be worth being restricted to only Eley. The Rimx action is so smooth, I find it easy to forget to cycle it firmly. After years of shooting conventional 22 repeaters, (starting in the 60's when we had high school rifle teams and ranges in the school) and the short action movement, I need retraining. 
Bolt and extractors look good; question - reading over some of the literature that shipped with the action;
"For best feeding, ensure magazine has no more than 1/16'' of vertical play". Quite sure now this is what we're running into.
What methods are available to 'thicken' up the magazine walls or get a firmer fit in the MDT chassis? Is anyone else running an MDT elite with their build?
"For best feeding, ensure magazine has no more than 1/16'' of vertical play". Quite sure now this is what we're running into.
What methods are available to 'thicken' up the magazine walls or get a firmer fit in the MDT chassis? Is anyone else running an MDT elite with their build?
Folks are minimizing magazine movement with the soft side of velcro tape applied to their magazines.
Thank you - Ray
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