If that was my cost I'd have been done long ago. I've been lucky and had 5 places within 3hrs or less of me
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Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?
- Thread starter THEIS
- Start date
When I started I was an hour from the MPA Cool Acres matches north of Savannah. Now living in Nashville my closest centerfire match is 2.5 hours each way to Indiana. And those top out at 500 yards. K&M is like 3 hours but that’s it for matches. That’s not a PRS problem, just a, not enough ranges problem lol
What I see in common here is not enough venues within reasonable day match distance. And I get that, as I was going to say that the answer for most of this is lack of local matches that are lower cost and lower impact. That’s really where your average middle of the road guy is going to spend most of his/her time until or unless they are driven to compete (and therefore practice as such) at a higher level.
Honestly, I am fortunate to have people that drive 2-3 hours or more that get up/down to my matches. Availability of sufficient ranges is a thing.
I think a lot of folks really misjudge the size of the PRS, and of the precision rifle competition world in general. There just aren't that many places that are capable of safely holding a match, or that many people participating. At least not compared to something more mainstream like action pistol or shotgun sports.
The "I want a division for average joes to compete in so I don't have to shoot against Pros" argument (ignoring the fact that most of the "Pros" are also just guys with a day job and a family) and the discouragement that so many have with not having a 1000yd+ precision rifle competition venue an hour from their house are two sides of the same coin. It's a really fucking small pond.
If they opened up the guidelines for match stages a bit more you could put a lot of stressors int a stage to make it a challenge even at 500yrds like it was before the prs. Bring back the fear of losing points because you were over confident or didn't stage plan correctly. There should be no "standard" for barricades. With the garmin now it's easy to throw a random stage to check velocity...I can guarantee people have cheated the velocity limits and in tac the bullet weight restrictions. It's not fool proof but there is nothing enforcing those rules. Either change the rules or enforce them.
This sounds like a pretty poor person setup. Doesn't even tip the scales at $13k.
I'm confused, cuz I highly doubt anyone is shooting anything at 3200+ fps.
As far as tac, I agree with you
Id have thought the same but when you brake out your chrono and the person next to you intentionally gets up before you even let a round off and goes one over between his buddies is a bit suspicious. Then smelling burnt primer and later spotting for him and seeing a flatter trajectory than the other 120+ shooters added to it.I'm confused, cuz I highly doubt anyone is shooting anything at 3200+ fps.
As far as tac, I agree with you
Tac I've heard admitted outright... that was my last season.
I got stories for days....high profile period ignoring safety rules and when you call him out he says get off his back he's been to war. Calling out real time corrections for a wife and yelling atyou when you don't call a shot that he thinks hit. People bringing a drill with a piece of wood with short screws ready to go to game a slanted post, "not in the rules you can't" bs gets argued with you for 20 minutes. Dudes coming up to you half the roster later saying why you only make 5 instead of 6 then arguing since I can't remember 60 shots later that you should give it to them.
Sport is way different than it used to be, just a bunch of cool dudes looking to be challenged and have a good time and give eachother shit. Ain't worth my time anymore dealing with almost any of the top guys.
Slanted piece of wood with screws... Genius! I should have used that today at the match 
I feel you... Hey, it is generally the same 150-250 in the Finale. So, yea... Growth has to be achieved somewhere.
I feel you... Hey, it is generally the same 150-250 in the Finale. So, yea... Growth has to be achieved somewhere.
I see the sport shrinking instead of growing. I shoot it for fun and can hold my own, however don’t have the time or need to practice every weekend and take time away from other hobbies.
And I don’t see anyone making a living shooting PRS.
And I don’t see anyone making a living shooting PRS.
Wow. F bombs everywhere. That totally makes your point and now I agree with you. lol.
Again. If your excuse for not coming out and shooting is cause you have to compete against better shooters. Well. That’s just weak minded ego.
So why do you think having a class like limited would bring more shooters? The rifle they have is legal in open. They are going to be “competing” against the same people who are shooting open for the prize table (in 2 day and some one day matches). So again why would someone say, nah, not shooting PRS in open. Then all of a sudden decide. Well he’ll. Now I’ll show up cause they have a class my rifle fits in? The only reason is because of the feeling that they are now “competitive” cause they are #2 of 3 shooters. But in reality they aren’t competitive. You must be a Harris voting liberal who thinks that a man can be a women or a cat just because they feel that way, rather than the truth of biology. Cause that’s what we are talking about here. In no universe does making a class like limited do anything but stroke the ego of a newer shooter that just can’t stand being at the bottom of the score sheet. We were all there at one time. We all spent a lot of money and time training to get better. We all started off with “lesser” equipment and had to deal with it. My first match was with a 308 with m118 lr and a rem700 action. I shot open. Never felt I deserved a class different than that
Cause here’s the deal. Look at production. You still have to beat Keith or Doug or Matt or any of the others. The same would be in limited. What happens when a top shooter deciders to shoot limited and that new guy has to shoot against them.
The whole premise is stupid. Then when that comes out someone will want a catagory that has “these” specific guidelines so their rifle/scope/ammo fits in it. That’s the issues. Everyone wants to be special with their own class. Yes. As a new shooter you have to compete against better shooters better more experienced shooters. Period. And like is said before. You have the divisions like marksman and semi pro to show the progression of new shooters. In a regional match. Really. Those are for fun and to help new shooter. So again no, there is no need for a special class.
As far as the other things go. I actually don’t think we should have a women’s trophy. Heck with Allison, Payton, Kate, Regina and others who have all won or placed at the top. There really isnt a need. Same with junior. That age should be reduced. Again with Allison, Kate, Jake, and others all kicking us older guys asses. The age needs to be like 14.
oh. And don’t think us “pros” are paid to shoot. I spend more than then next 3-4 new shooters a year combined. I get help and am grateful for it. I’ve also done well enough over the years to be able to get nice products off the prize table that have helped as well. But I spent plenty of time getting barely my choice of hats and stickers as well.
Cool man, we get it, you're the best and what you did is what everyone else should do. Its pointless even having a conversation because you cant see further than yourself. YOU and your attitude are the reason this sport isn't growing. your attitude is the reason PRS will stay the same guys, shooting the same cartridge, out of the same rifle, with the same glass.
And as far as the personal insults go, I shoot PRS, carry every day, work at a major gun manufacturer and want to see shooting sports grow. So yep, I definitely voted for that dumb twat lol.
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Funny how the sport IS growing. More and more shooters every year.
And it’s sad how you can’t see past YOURSELF with your attitude about making excuses. I’ll keep shooting and encouraging new shooters spending time with them at one day matches. Talking to them about positions. How to use gear. Letting them borrow gear and generally being actually helpful rather than suggesting to them they can’t/shouldnt come (which is what this type of thought process does) because it’s so unfair that they have to shoot against someone who is better than them.
It’s pointless having a discussion with you who is so hell bent that the rules are unfair and against everyone as to discourage new shooters. Very very sad. If only you put as much effort in passion into actually helping new shooters to attend and compete as you do making excuses for them, we’d all better off.
Not sure why you say it’s the same guys shooting the same cal. If you haven’t noticed how many newer guys are at the top. Not the “same old guys”. And the verity of cal shot now is WAY higher than ever. PRS the way it is now is driving the market. Driving what the military is looking at in the future. But yeah. It’s all ho hum to you. Might need to pull your head out of the sand and actually look around some.
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Ok man, you win. You're right. Congrats, you win the internet.
Also, for what its worth, PRS is not driving the market for gun manufacturers. Hunting and GOV sales do. PRS is a blip on the radar. I've been pushing my company to make a solid PRS rifle for over a year. Same response, PRS is a hobby, not trap or skeet or IDPA or USPSA.
But like I previously stated, you're right, I know nothing. Enjoy your day being right.
I think this is likely to always be the case to some extent. NRL22 (and to a lesser degree PRS22 & NRL22X) is probably the exception since any place with a 100yd rifle range can host an NRL22 sanctioned match and anyone with a scoped 22lr can give it a try.
It's a shame no one sells an NRL22 oriented rifle and scope combo, or "starter pack."
EGO? It’s that thing where you get pissed because you don’t get what you want. At least that’s what I kinda thought.
So,
Am I supposed to be mad because in the matches I shot this year, I did not get my participation trophy?
Oh wait, I didn’t win…..But I did. I did win. I met some really really fun, nice people, I achieved a personal best in percentage of hits, I started out in a new aspect and found it really fit me well, I had fun, but no, no participation trophy for me. But I actually got a whole bunch of trophies. Just don’t have more stuff to have to store in the attic.
PRS and NRL and just about every participant sport is just what you make it. It’s you against yourself. Trust me, in 76 circles of the sun, I have learned that no matter how good you are at any endeavor, there is always someone else just a little bit better. So, SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP, or go home and cry yourself to sleep while counting the number of times you wasted electrons using the “F” word
So,
Am I supposed to be mad because in the matches I shot this year, I did not get my participation trophy?
Oh wait, I didn’t win…..But I did. I did win. I met some really really fun, nice people, I achieved a personal best in percentage of hits, I started out in a new aspect and found it really fit me well, I had fun, but no, no participation trophy for me. But I actually got a whole bunch of trophies. Just don’t have more stuff to have to store in the attic.
PRS and NRL and just about every participant sport is just what you make it. It’s you against yourself. Trust me, in 76 circles of the sun, I have learned that no matter how good you are at any endeavor, there is always someone else just a little bit better. So, SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP, or go home and cry yourself to sleep while counting the number of times you wasted electrons using the “F” word
Hahaha. How little you know. Ever here of say the 6 creedmoor? Or 6 GT? Funny how those things are in factory rifles from major manufacturers now. That’s not from hunting. Oh. And those military sales. Where do you think they are going to to get the best stuff and equipment.
It’s like f1 for cars. And your best argument is that you can’t sell a PRS rifle. Hahaha. Yeah. I’m not buying an f1 car either. But the fact that my car is fuel injected came from f1. Same with prs. It’s the tip of the spear and where the innovation is. And that’s tricking down to the military and hunter. Ever hear of the game changer. Now military units snd even local law enforcement are using them. Well. Now I know why you think the way you do about adding having more classes, and that will help participation. Hahaha.
Another boomer enters the chat lol.
Please point out where I said anything about winning trophy’s or my own placement in matches for that matter? Just like most 50-60 year olds you only hear or read what you want. I don’t care about my own placement. I simply replied to thread started many months ago about things you’d like to see changed in competitive shooting. Sorry you and MPK got triggered.
Most sports that have been around for a while have multiple classes and categories. Go look up SCCA racing for one. They’ve found more success and more turnout from having more classes. And like it was mentioned before, Production USED to be what I was talking about. Not custom MPA and GAP rifles labeled as Production. Which you’ve actually said yourself in other posts.
But I digress, more shooters, more factory support and less fudds like you are what will grow PRS.
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I shot NRL22 with a mark2 and CCI Sv for a year. NRL22 is only up to 100 yards, so the 3-9, while maybe not ideal, would work. Or are you thinking that the beginner package should already be setup with a 5-40x 56 scope, adjustable stock, arca rail and bipod and shoot Eli match?
Maybe with a $3200 price tag?
There’s no pleasing you…
But the fudds are actually the bread and butter for the series.
Fuel injection isn't from F1 wtf. It was invented at the end of the 19th century, more than 50 years before F1 started. So ok cool story.
PRS isnt fueling military innovation haha. Quite the opposite. Companies are creating military submissions using new technology and calibers and when that doesnt pan out they sell it to the civilian market to recoup costs. Ive seen it at both companies I worked at.
You dont think anyone has ever used a sand filled canvas bag before? cmon man you cant be that dense!
Wait you mean the 6mm H.O.L.E.? Who was GT created by? Maybe the same guy who pushed to get the Production class price targets pushed higher and higher so he could sell his "Production" custom rifles?
Whatever dude. You can have your opinion and think you're right. Have a great day.
i mean there's a lot that is far from ideal on that package, but wouldn't take much to actually make into a "decent" platform for NRL22. cheap arca chassis and a 6-24/5-25 from vortex/arken/bushnell. hitting that 1/4" KYL wouldn't be a lot of fun at 50-100y with that 3-9I shot NRL22 with a mark2 and CCI Sv for a year. NRL22 is only up to 100 yards, so the 3-9, while maybe not ideal, would work. Or are you thinking that the beginner package should already be setup with a 5-40x 56 scope, adjustable stock, arca rail and bipod and shoot Eli match?
Maybe with a $3200 price tag?
There’s no pleasing you…
CZ could do not a Manners/MDT and add a scope. but mil will be hard cause fudds
i think package guns are dumb. too many options now for chassis, scopes, bipods, barrel length. you might add .5% to the number of shooters
I don’t disagree. I was just saying that the Savage Mark2 and similar rifles like Ruger and Tikka are what NRL22 had in mind when the set their production class. I still have an occasional shooter show up with one of those.
Oh, and the 1/4” on a kyl at 50-100 is not a reasonable expectation with .22 ammo as it is and expecting more than a few hits by maybe the best or luckiest shooters. Even being maybe a bit sadistic as an MD, I would not make that stage. I don’t know if a single type of .22 ammo that can be expected to do that.
I have seen people clean that rack at 50 yards, but that’s beside the point.
I shot NRL22 with a mark2 and CCI Sv for a year. NRL22 is only up to 100 yards, so the 3-9, while maybe not ideal, would work. Or are you thinking that the beginner package should already be setup with a 5-40x 56 scope, adjustable stock, arca rail and bipod and shoot Eli match?
Maybe with a $3200 price tag?
There’s no pleasing you…
A CZ and an Arken EP5 5-25 would be a great beginner package and not be anywhere near $3200. A 3-9x is a crap set up for matches.
A solid (and I mean a real No shitter) 1 moa gun can clean the 1/4” spinner at 50 y. When you consider that you only need to graze the target with the bullet, you have ~0.11” on each side of the target (radius of the bullet). That gives you an effective target diameter of 0.47”. CenterX out of my Kidd will spin it basically on command, especially if you get the kyl stage first thing, before the wind gets going.
Id you don’t ask specific questions, you won’t get specific answers.
Saw one at Walmart, really did not look too bad considering the money asked. For my money, too many better answers, but I saw it and threw it out.
My, My, aren’t we touchy tonight. Seems us old fudds, touched a few nerves. Don’t remember calling any names. Touchy touchy, touchy.
However, most of us fudds have seen a thing or two, and understand what has worked and what was tried and never did.
But some of the children who have discovered four letter words, seem to think that reinventing a square wheel will work great this time. Not calling any names. But “Average Joe” classes have been tried more than once. Average Joes get awful tired, awful quick when their Average Joe equipment, which may have worked great in that deer stand with the 100 yard field of fire, cant hit shit at 500 yards.. OH, there you go, seems even us old fudds have also learned how to use those new fangled four letter words.
Folks, there is a reason 22 pound custom rifles have proliferated. It’s because they work. They are the tools for the task.
However, most of us fudds have seen a thing or two, and understand what has worked and what was tried and never did.
But some of the children who have discovered four letter words, seem to think that reinventing a square wheel will work great this time. Not calling any names. But “Average Joe” classes have been tried more than once. Average Joes get awful tired, awful quick when their Average Joe equipment, which may have worked great in that deer stand with the 100 yard field of fire, cant hit shit at 500 yards.. OH, there you go, seems even us old fudds have also learned how to use those new fangled four letter words.
Folks, there is a reason 22 pound custom rifles have proliferated. It’s because they work. They are the tools for the task.
I’m not disagreeing at all, but it comes down to how does the average shooter do on stages like this? It’s one thing if I’m running at regional qualifier or semi-final, to throw a tough stage like this out there. It’s another when we’re talking about actually offering a fun and accessible, yet challenging for the more competitive COF for new and casual PRS shooters.
Which seems to have been the big point of this thread, right?
I like how the gap grind is ran for pro and am shooters. Have two different size targets based on skill level. Skill 1 shoots the big target and skill two shoots the small. Same CoF, same distances, just different degree of difficulty.
I’ve not seen the 1/4” part of the KYL at 100 yards in an official NRL22 stage, or did you miss that part? Tell me of one rifle and .22 ammo brand that can even shoot 0.5” consistently at 100 yards, much less 0.25”.
Where’s the challenge in a purely chance shot?
So, now for the 15+/- shooters that show up to my local matches, I should put out two times the targets (all of which I buy) for all ten stages and get this all done in the 2-3 hours before dark that I get the range night before the match? For what inholy purpose would I do that?
Sure, for the 350+ shooters that Gap Grind gets on a dedicated range like K&M, great. That’s to be expected, but for the one day matches that most PRS attendees shoot regularly, it’s thoroughly overkill and ridiculous to expect.
Now your just having daydreams or trolling.
As discussed ad-nauseum earlier in this thread. A well designed COF provides all that is needed to satisfy most shooters, new and experienced alike.
15 shooters? That’s not a PRS match, that’s a dozen guys just having fun. Wouldn’t make sense for that many. I agree. But for instance, I used to shoot matches near Savannah, GA that had 120 shooters every match. And Eric, the match director and range owner, put all that money back into the range every match. He’s now running two day pro series matches. I’m not trolling or dreaming. It’s a conversation about competition shooting.
You said 50 yards. A 100 yards is definitely pushing it but 50 yards it’s a standard stage.
This is what I said and I stick by that assertion:
We are not shooting these things all cozied up and prone either.
Come shoot my PRS22 match and see if you are challenged. You have no idea what your talking about.
So a 50 yard KYL is too challenging and then insinuate you make stages that are more challenging than that? Wouldn’t that be too hard for everyone too? Sorry not getting it.
I’m serious, come on down to sunny Florida this winter and shoot the match. I’m well aware that you’ve been shooting matches of all type for longer than I am. I’ve been running matches for longer than you have and know how to put on a balanced match that’s both challenging and yet not intimidating to newer shooters.
Clean my match and I’ll give you your money back. Nobody has yet and many of the top ten PRS22 shooters in the SE have come to shoot it.
Yes, your ego won’t let you see. That’s fine, believe what you like. It doesn’t make you right.
Nothing to do with ego. I know my abilities and that there are a lot of shooters better than me. The statement doesn’t make sense to me but if it does to you then have at it.Yes, your ego won’t let you see. That’s fine, believe what you like. It doesn’t make you right.
This. Even 3-18 or something similar would be my recommendation. Most “maybe” shooters I know want to use the same scope on their centerfire hunting rifle to appease their or their budget manager’s cheapness.
I see the same as you do. Once you get shooters off super solid “benchrest barricades” it’s more of a shooter race, rather than a custom barrel and expensive ammo game. I mostly practice weird height semi wobbly stuff, not the easiest ones that let my custom rifle, ELey match, and Razor show their stuff.
It’s simply because my match difficulty or ease doesn’t hinge on how close or far away people shoot a KYL while prone. Why is that hard to understand?
You made an incorrect assumption that since I don’t do that, then my matches are meatball matches.
My invitation to come shoot still stands if you ever wander down in this direction.
