If a gun shoots in the 1s or 0s at 100, you think it’s going to shoot worse at 600 or 800 than a gun that can only manage 1moa at 100? You’re talking about magic bullets going to sleep again now.
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Bad Throat/Barrel?
- Thread starter Boss334OP
- Start date
Some people are “good enough” people I guess.
Wonder what the statistics are for guys shooting and winning LR and ELR are running crooked chambers?
Straight trued custom action
Straight ammo
Stiff straight stock,
all canceled by a crooked chamber.
Just sayin.
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It's a Miculek chamber, you should time it at about 1:00. Would there be a way to push a lead bullet in to get a throat impression?
Maybe it's just too early to start the New Year's Eve drinking games
To the OP
I have a teslong camera, you gotta screw the mirror in and out to get the focus just right and then you will be able to take excellent video and pictures. When u get a chance do that, wipe the mirror odd real good and take more detailed videos of this chamber. From the first video, from what I saw that looked horrible and should be addressed. Let's see another video that more focused
I have a teslong camera, you gotta screw the mirror in and out to get the focus just right and then you will be able to take excellent video and pictures. When u get a chance do that, wipe the mirror odd real good and take more detailed videos of this chamber. From the first video, from what I saw that looked horrible and should be addressed. Let's see another video that more focused
I have known people to chop the case off at the shoulder then chamber it. Then they would fill it full of lead shot. Then slowly drop more lead shot down the bore and use a rod to pound the shot. It will slowly fill up and expand into the throat and give a decent impression of the chamber without having to use cerrosafe or something like it.
Call them and have it replaced. I had the same issue with my brand new barrel from a good company with carbon wrapped prefits. My freebore/throat was wayyyy off center. They told me that cut the chamber minus the throat and come back after and add the freebore. That’s their issue. They are replacing my barrel but it’s been over a month now and haven’t gotten my replacement barrel yet. I got a Uni-throater and tried to fix it but it was too bad to fix.
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Just wanted to give my $.02 on the subject.
Borescopes are a great asset for both the builder/gunsmith and the consumer. With that said, I think consumers also need to put this back into perspective. Is the freebore "off-center"???.......when compared to the bore/rifling.......YES. Are the grooves/lands in the barrel EXACTLY EQUAL???.......maybe....maybe not. Perhaps some others can chime in here.........Ever indicate in a bore (on grooves) perfectly and 1of4 or 1of5 lands was a little different??? I know I have.
Regarding on target accuracy........most reamers have a freebore diameter of .0005" (or smaller) over bore diameter........that's .00025" per side..............so does YOUR reloaded ammo or FACTORY ammo have runout of .0005" or less??? Can you shoot the difference........maybe...maybe not.
I don't have a dog in the fight......but I would contact the manufacturer and confirm with them its OK to test-fire and go from there provided you can take a factory round of ammunition and drop it into the chamber (barrel off the action) and it seats fully without forcing it in/out. This "drop test" at least proves the round is not being torqued/twisted out of alignment when the bolt is closed.
I am here to tell you this issue has been happening for a LONG TIME and most shops (big and small) don't even know it is happening or blame it on "bad reamers". You will continue to see more and more posts like this with the availability of cheap borescopes coupled with 5R barrels with 6 flute reamers. There are a few work arounds that help but are not 100% guaranteed.
I don't know if this is a value add to the conversation or not........just felt like it needed to be said........thanks for listening/reading.
Ern
Borescopes are a great asset for both the builder/gunsmith and the consumer. With that said, I think consumers also need to put this back into perspective. Is the freebore "off-center"???.......when compared to the bore/rifling.......YES. Are the grooves/lands in the barrel EXACTLY EQUAL???.......maybe....maybe not. Perhaps some others can chime in here.........Ever indicate in a bore (on grooves) perfectly and 1of4 or 1of5 lands was a little different??? I know I have.
Regarding on target accuracy........most reamers have a freebore diameter of .0005" (or smaller) over bore diameter........that's .00025" per side..............so does YOUR reloaded ammo or FACTORY ammo have runout of .0005" or less??? Can you shoot the difference........maybe...maybe not.
I don't have a dog in the fight......but I would contact the manufacturer and confirm with them its OK to test-fire and go from there provided you can take a factory round of ammunition and drop it into the chamber (barrel off the action) and it seats fully without forcing it in/out. This "drop test" at least proves the round is not being torqued/twisted out of alignment when the bolt is closed.
I am here to tell you this issue has been happening for a LONG TIME and most shops (big and small) don't even know it is happening or blame it on "bad reamers". You will continue to see more and more posts like this with the availability of cheap borescopes coupled with 5R barrels with 6 flute reamers. There are a few work arounds that help but are not 100% guaranteed.
I don't know if this is a value add to the conversation or not........just felt like it needed to be said........thanks for listening/reading.
Ern
There are a whole host of issues that only a long firing schedule will expose. OP has a head start because he can see the problem without even firing a round. I've owned barrels that shot great five round groups but had issues like wandering, premature fouling, etc. I assume the people advocating "shoot it first" aren't suggesting OP spends 100 to 500 rounds seeing if the barrel sucks. It is a custom barrel and you can see the throat isn't concentric to the rifling. I wouldn't spend my time and money trying to prove the poor job done by the smith isn't poor enough to effect its performance.
Just shoot it is utter nonsense. If I paid for a custom barrel and received savage factory chambering finish I'd be furious.
I've seen barrels with what the internet would deem "unacceptable" chambers shoot in the .1s and .2s, and I've seen barrels with what the internet would deem pristine chambers shoot barley 1 moa. If you think you can diagnose how a barrel will shoot without shooting it, you're lying to yourself and this board.
I can diagnose when a barrel isn't made correctly just by looking at it. You made up the rest. It is a custom barrel, OP didn't buy a rack grade rifle.
If you purchased a 800 dollar barrel and it showed up looking like OP barrel, you wouldn't have a problem with it?
And if they don't?
And if a comet falls from the sky?
And if the San Andreas let's go?
And if...?
And if...?
And if...?
If you bought a brand new car and it leaked oil would you just drive it and see if it got worse? NO you would take it back and it get fixed. But a new barrel your just suppose to accept the gun Smith hack jobbed your barrel and say o well
So if your new lambo was delivered from the dealer with a huge dent but drove like a muther you'd be good with it?
FWIW I posted a similar thread like this, using the teslong borescope. Majority of responses I got were that the rifle needed cleaning and it was fine or hair got in the chamber.
I sent that same rifle back to the manufacturer who deemed it necessary to destroy (unrepairable).
If you have enough evidence that it looks defective from the start, why would you waste ammo shooting it just to confirm that suspicion..? I did exactly that..and they're not volunteering to reimburse me or replace the 5 boxes of berger I wasted on testing it. Additionally, I watched that out of focus video posted in here where the camera was spun in the chamber and caught a pretty decent scratch in there too. For a $700 barrel, this is extremely sloppy work.
I think affordable borescopes are a tool of the times, that allow more educated consumers to make better choices and hold companies more accountable.
Somebody else mentioned cars here..well..in the porsche world, its not uncommon to "bore scope" the boxer engines to find bore scoring..which leads to catastrophic engine failure. Consumers dont have the option yet to do that on their own, shops charge about $500 or so to do it. If this was a common practice, or affordable as a DIY, you'd see a lot less of those engines bought/resold blindly on the market leaving people with 20k+ lemons.
Comparatively speaking, the $40-$50 to diagnose this early on is a fraction of the cost of avoiding it becoming a $700 barreled custom mosin nagant.
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That is simply bad workmanship, the chamber and the bore are not in alignment, period.
Whether it shoots or not is really not relevant. If I give a smith a $360 barrel blank
and pay him $400 to chamber the blank it better NOT look like that.
Whether it shoots or not is really not relevant. If I give a smith a $360 barrel blank
and pay him $400 to chamber the blank it better NOT look like that.
We need to get away from the car analogies guys. They simply don't translate.
The, "fender" in this case, is the cheek piece.
I'd pound that barrel up the gunsmith ass,
No you need to buy a custom barrel and have this happen to you and you would most certainly change your tune on, just shoot it bro
If and when I get a custom barrel that doesn't shoot, I'll send it back. It's that simple.
I never in my 25 years of messing with rifles, ever heard a smith or barrel maker say offset chambers don’t matter and it’s within their standards.
I do wonder if Remington would do that.
LOL. valid point.
I think they're all trying to say (in different ways), if you spent extra money for something expensive, you would similarly be unhappy if the quality of work (or craftsmanship) wasnt up to your expectations.
If this was an off the shelf savage $400 bolt action, it could be excusable, but for a gunsmith to deliver this, it really is shoddy work.
And here lies the problem, you are giving advice on something you know nothing about
And if it doesn't shoot fucking zeros AND you ran maybe 100-200 rounds thru it to get up to speed and it still shoots like then what....you are stuck with it, is what. You shot it, you bought.
Sorry, my friend....but I just can't agree with you on this one.
Add to the fact that as soon as you shoot it, they can rightfully walk away from any responsibility by simply saying, you could have damaged it all on your own with running some of bubba's pissing hot loads, or through overzealous cleaning during "barrel break in" (you know how everyone and their mom has some voodoo magic procedure for that).
Beretta wanted a detailed list of every brand, count, and round of ammo Ive ever shot through my rifle. They even wanted the original magazine returned to them for inspection. Not to mention, in most cases, a "self install" on a barrel, instead of using a qualified gunsmith, is enough for any brand to basically say its no longer covered either.
If I got something that I suspected was defective in any way, I certainly wouldnt be "test driving" the defects.
It sounds like OP is looking to do exactly that, he came here for advice on if he should do so, and a few people basically shit on him for doing his due diligence instead of throwing caution to the wind because its not their own money they're advising him on wasting.
@Tokay444 , Please find me one just one well known highly regarded smith that would be ok sending that out the door. You seem to think how the rifle shoots in the beginning is the end all be all, but I guarantee you won't find one well known highly regarded smith that would publicly say they'd let that out the door. Anyone that has a lot of experience or been through dozens of barrels knows that problems don't always immediately appear... You are definitely the "bubba" smith's favorite type of customer for sure.
We're not debating whether it will send a round down range or not. There's a lot of things that will just "shoot". I almost assembled a C02 powered spud launcher to rain candy on kids during halloween this year. That will "shoot" too, but I wont expect it to be nailing bullseyes at 200 yards.
We're debating whether the barrel was built to the quality standard expected for a $700 barrel. Two very different things.
He doesn't need evidence. That Is a horrible chamber job and that's that. The gunsmith should pay shipping to get it back to inspect his fuck up and make it right. You have to have confidence in your equipment to win matchs. If you show up with that black cloud of a barrel looming over your head you will do poorly, even if it "shoots"
