(CLOSED!) **ROUND2 !!** (100YARD) , Bolt-Action, 6group, 30round SHOOTOUT!

[Ryback]

Here is my entry.









Shot with Sako TRG 22 with Front & Rear Bag @ 100Yds.
Average was .504
Best group was .346
Rifle used = Sako TRG 22 (.308)
Barrel Length / Type = 26"
Optics = Steiner 5x25 FFP, Mil/Mil, MSR reticle
Mount = Spuhr 34mm 7 Mil/24 MOA

Shot with Southwest Ammo Reloads
FGMM Brass
175 SMK

 

[1slow01z71]

PSA for everyone or maybe most already know this but Hornady brass has two different weights. One lot weighs around 158 with a spent primer and the other weighs around 172 with a spent primer. I did not know this and was racking my brain as to why some groups would be great and others would spread open. Well that 14ish gr difference in brass weight accounts for a 30ish FPS spread in velocities with the same charge. After weight sorting my brass my groups shrank and became more consistent. Im finally happy with the way the rifle is performing which IMO is pretty dang good considering no accurizing work has been done to it other than a timney trigger.

I still have some work to do on my shooting skills but given the fact that it was pouring down rain with a 10mph wind and cold. I believe this thing is an honest half inch gun all day long if I do my part. I took a picture of the target still on the stand to show why it looks weird where the bullet holes don't have the normal black marks on them. I did my best to measure them as honestly as possible which was easier on some than others but added a little when the edge wasn't clearly defined. My goal now is to get below an average of .6 for 30 rounds. With better conditions and me taking my time with less coffee before I shoot(it was 8am) I think Ill do even better. Just glad to see things starting to line out over my last entry. Regardless I think its safe to call this gun sub moa now

Was shot off a concrete bench with a harris bipod and triad wedge rear bag just like last time.

 

[diego-ted]

Was supposed to shoot a 1000 yard match at Camp Pendelton today; however that got cancelled at the last minute. I had all these rounds loaded up so figured I would take the Hospitaller out at shoot the 100 yard challenge. I was supposed to get 45 minutes to shoot but the numbskull at the range was slacking so I had to do this in 35 minutes!

Rifle-GAP Hospitaller 308 with custom Bartlien 30" tube, Sinclair bipod Protektor rear bag
Ammo- My hand loads, 185 juggers, 47.2 MR Pro 2k, Lapua brass, Tula primer.
Date-Today in 30 minutes.

Groups = .215+.143+431+156+.406+.385=289 Average
Best Group=.143

 

[tunacan]

Was supposed to shoot a 1000 yard match at Camp Pendelton today; however that got cancelled at the last minute. I had all these rounds loaded up so figured I would take the Hospitaller out at shoot the 100 yard challenge. I was supposed to get 45 minutes to shoot but the numbskull at the range was slacking so I had to do this in 35 minutes!

Rifle-GAP Hospitaller with custom Bartlien 30" tube, Sinclair bipod Protektor rear bag
Ammo- My hand loads
Date-Today in 30 minutes.

Groups = .215+.143+431+156+.406+.385=289 Average
Best Group=.143

Why are there powder burns on your target? Good shooting

 

[elfster1234]

holy cow you guys! nice shooting! ill get you all updated later today / tomorrow. got to love spring time! im going to the range tomorrow myself!

 

[Lazer]

Funkin incredible Diego! I missed the caliber? First time iv seen that kind of bipod it seems it would be inbetween an adjustable rest and a bag? Again very awesome target! I don't own a gap but how about that advertisement!

 

[elfster1234]

Good news everyone!

First I'm announcing this round officially closed with the winner as per the OP rules:

****THIS ROUND IS CLOSED! WINNER = #1 place: DIEGO-TED, GAP HOSPITALLER / 30" BARTLIEN / .308, (AVERAGE = .289), shot on (04/06/14), post on page3*****

Second, being that DIEGO-TED is the winner of this round he can select a free t-shirt thanks to marky @ tactical t-shirts TacticalTshirts.com | Tactical tshirts T-Shirts Tee-Shirts Gun Shirts which will be shipped to DIEGO-TED.

DIEGO-TED, I will PM you for your shipping information and which t-shirt / size you want.

Thank you all for those that participated in this round!

 

[MoBoost]

Awesome shooting!

- Is that an indoor range?
- How big are those red dots?
It just looks weird - .385 target looks 3 bullets tall, that would make it .5xx but I know that VLDs/Hybrids like to leave odd marks.

 

[Lazer]

It's very good shooting , but I think your right moboost it's not measured correctly.

 

[diego-ted]

zero calipers on bullet


Than measure outside to outside


???????
Diego

 

[wm.penn]

If your .308 is making such tiny holes then you'd want to zero your calipers on the size of the hole, not the bullet. Or just do your best to measure CTC. I agree with MoBoost and Lazer. Basically, three .308 holes next to each other can't equal .375" CTC. Either way the shooting is excellent. But to be fair to everyone it's important to have these measurement discussions.


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[diego-ted]

look a Tee shirt means little to me, I was just following elfster1234s directions,you can call it what you want, The numbers are what they are! I didn't shoot the target wet and then come home and throw it in the dryer so I could will a tee shirt! Sheeze, over and out! LOL

Diego

 

[wm.penn]

look a Tee shirt means little to me, I am just following elfster1234s directions,you can call it what you want, The numbers are what they are! over and out! LOL

Diego

There's no need to take your ball and go home. It's simple to re-measure your target subtracting the size of a bullet hole. This has nothing to do with a t-shirt, it just keeps the friendly competition fair. Otherwise people will lose the motivation to participate if there are unresolved measurement issues.


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[elfster1234]

Rules are to zero calipers on bullet used and measure outside to outside.

Diego ted.... Just double check your measurements and get back to us. Not bustin your balls. Just to be safe my friend.

If your .308 is making such tiny holes then you'd want to zero your calipers on the size of the hole, not the bullet. Or just do your best to measure CTC. I agree with MoBoost and Lazer. Basically, three .308 holes next to each other can't equal .375" CTC. Either way the shooting is excellent. But to be fair to everyone it's important to have these measurement discussions.


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[wm.penn]

Rules are to zero calipers on bullet used and measure outside to outside.

That works if the bullet and the holes are more or less the same. But for the target above to make sense mathematically the holes must be about .227". Not very similar to the bullet that was measured.


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[Lazer]

If I take Diego's target and blow it up on my I phone until the bullet holes are .284 whitch is what mine run on my 308 targets, then zero calipers on 308 his measurements are way off. And yes this works very well I just took pictures of my own target and I'm with in .010.
It's still a great target but it's not a fair first place and no one gives a shit about the t shirt, it's more than that!

 

[1slow01z71]

He measured by the rules of the game. Maybe you all that are complaining should read the rules next time and measure your groups that way. If you measure to the outside edge of the black left on the target its pretty damn close to caliber size.

 

[diego-ted]

Rules are to zero calipers on bullet used and measure outside to outside.

Diego ted.... Just double check your measurements and get back to us. Not bustin your balls. Just to be safe my friend.

The numbers are what the numbers are, I did not put any voodoo on the calipers! I posted the last two pics to show the bullet and the measurement to the outside (black stain)of the hole, I did not just measure just the puncture. I have always measured this way and shot this challenge for fun, that's it nothing more. So take if for what you want, just for shits and giggles I went back and measured " the best I could determane" center to center of the .385 target with out zeroing the calipers, I won't tell you what I came up with!! .385 Happy shooting. You wont' see me on round 3 of the challenge.

Later, Diego

 

[MoBoost]

Ok, I played around with onTarget and got a pretty good idea what's going on.
As I suspected the VLDs are leaving a smaller foot print, around .240 in Diego's case.
This explains why the bullet holes look smaller and "three bullet wide" measures only in .600s (the actually reading on the caliper is .683 - .308 = .375)
Therefore I don't think there was foul intended, everything is measured by the rules.
With all that said - the true measurement Center to Center will be 0.068" off.

elfster's challenge, elfster's rules, elfster's call.

 

[MoBoost]

just for shits and giggles I went back and measured " the best I could determane" center to center of the .385 target with out zeroing the calipers, I won't tell you what I came up with!! .385

Your center to center measurement is way off - onTarget shows .462

Sometimes you see what you want to see ...

 

[diego-ted]

Well Boost, thank you for not calling me a cheat, or did you just call me a liar? Pray tell I think one can manipulate on target to give them any number they want by skewing the baseline. Have fun, we can call you the winner!! Now you can sleep tonight! I really am done with all this! Elfster, thanks for trying to do something good for the Hide.
Diego

 

[elfster1234]

Im not worried about it. We are all measuring the same way.

Well Boost, thank you for not calling me a cheat, or did you just call me a liar? Pray tell I think one can manipulate on target to give them any number they want by skewing the baseline. Have fun, we can call you the winner!! Now you can sleep tonight! I really am done with all this! Elfster, thanks for trying to do something good for the Hide.
Diego

 

[MoBoost]

I don't know why you are getting personal.... you made a mistake, just admit to it, or keep behaving like a dick....

 

[MoBoost]

Well Boost, thank you for not calling me a cheat, or did you just call me a liar? Pray tell I think one can manipulate on target to give them any number they want by skewing the baseline. Have fun, we can call you the winner!! Now you can sleep tonight! I really am done with all this! Elfster, thanks for trying to do something good for the Hide.
Diego

You are claiming a .006" victory over jelrod1, while anyone who shot benchrest can tell you that you made a honest mistake in measurement with a naked eye. Honest or not, it is a mistake nonetheless ... in .060" magnitude. You were asked to remeasure and you have chosen to do the same chickenshit measurement.

I offered elfster to run targets through software (the offer still stands), which does need to happen when you start shooting .1s; and I am sorry to say, you got close but there ain't no .1s on the target you posted.

Good luck in the next round.

 

[Lazer]

Can't believe your goin for this Elfster after such a very well put together competition and idea.

 

[elfster1234]

let me put some thought into this... regardless, someone will win being that 5 people have filled the previous leaderboard. I don't think diego-ted is by no means cheating intentionally, but I would like to look into this further and will get back to you all with an outcome. I'm just not going to do this now. Thank you lazer and mooboost. I've just been to busy lately with the GF to even go over this info to be honest with you. I'll get back to you all and I want to be fair with everyone.

Can't believe your goin for this Elfster after such a very well put together competition and idea.

 

[elfster1234]

im looking into this. thanks.

I don't know why you are getting personal.... you made a mistake, just admit to it, or keep behaving like a dick....

 

[MoBoost]

im looking into this. thanks.

Keep in mind there is a bit of perspective skew on that picture...

Still here is a close-up, this is how much you have to be "off-center" to get to the measurements (the grey circles are .308").

 

[diego-ted]

First off, shooting is not my LIFE, I work 50 to 60 hours a week serving Veteran’s who have sacrificed plenty to serve this great country.* I shoot for fun and relaxation.* This challenge looked like a fun thing to do and something to kill a little time.

*I have never used “On Target” before but may look into using it in the future!* However; from what I can tell of “ON Target”* Where one decides to click on to indicate the center of the hole is still subjective and not exact; therefore, the results can very depending on where one chooses to call the center of the hole.*

Anyhow, upon returning from the range, after shooting the groups,* I pulled out my calipers, stuck a bullet between the jaws and zeroed them.* I then measured each group from the furthest outside to outside as best as I could tell; I did no pay too much attention to any particular part of this process.* I then took a picture of the smallest group as the contest rules requested and posted the results.* Normally I would measure from what I could discern as the center of the two furthest holes but this is not what “THE RULES” of this contest called for.** The rules of this contest did not call for using a laser for measurement, or for using a computer program to quantify the results, or to check each contributors entry, I just followed the rules the way Elfster laid them out nothing more and* nothing less.

I have now been educated on the flaw in the way I have been measuring for the past 3 or so years that I have been shooting and may look into the program.* So without resorting to calling anyone names, I will withdraw from the contest and wish you all the best of luck.

Later Diego

 

[wm.penn]

Too many threads get derailed when people take personal offense. This didn't have to become a soap opera. And I still think it can be reeled back in. As far as I can tell, no one wants Diego to withdraw. Let Elfster administer his contest the way he sees fit, let's resolve the measurement issue like mature adults, and then we can resume having fun with these challenges.


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[MoBoost]

First off, shooting is not my LIFE, I work 50 to 60 hours a week serving Veteran’s who have sacrificed plenty to serve this great country.* I shoot for fun and relaxation.* This challenge looked like a fun thing to do and something to kill a little time.

*I have never used “On Target” before but may look into using it in the future!* However; from what I can tell of “ON Target”* Where one decides to click on to indicate the center of the hole is still subjective and not exact; therefore, the results can very depending on where one chooses to call the center of the hole.*

Anyhow, upon returning from the range, after shooting the groups,* I pulled out my calipers, stuck a bullet between the jaws and zeroed them.* I then measured each group from the furthest outside to outside as best as I could tell; I did no pay too much attention to any particular part of this process.* I then took a picture of the smallest group as the contest rules requested and posted the results.* Normally I would measure from what I could discern as the center of the two furthest holes but this is not what “THE RULES” of this contest called for.** The rules of this contest did not call for using a laser for measurement, or for using a computer program to quantify the results, or to check each contributors entry, I just followed the rules the way Elfster laid them out nothing more and* nothing less.

I have now been educated on the flaw in the way I have been measuring for the past 3 or so years that I have been shooting and may look into the program.* So without resorting to calling anyone names, I will withdraw from the contest and wish you all the best of luck.

Later Diego

I've never doubted the honesty of your measurements. I had two simple questions before thread got derailed:

1) Is it an indoor range?
2) What's the size of the red dots to closest .001"?

Thanks.

 

[elfster1234]

This is the way i see this.....

Is this whole shootout thread more for fun and is based upon trusting your fellow hidesman and calling out those who say they shoot .5moa all day long BS?? Yes

Is this a f-class quality competition? No

Is moboost correct in his statement? Yes.

Do i think diego-ted intentionally cheated? No

Did diego-ted follow the rules for measurements set by me? Yes

Did diego-ted cheat? No because he followed my rules.

Does this quick and easy measurement technique allow those with a basic set of calipers and regular camera allow those that are not computer savy to enter this contest? Yes

Does the current measure technique allow possible fudging of your measurements? Most likely

Is the current measurement technique quick and easy allowing your average joe to enter the shootout with little time invested by me, and is good enough to have a good time spanning hidesmen/women across the globe to enter an online shooting competition when they can find time during their busy life? Is it possible for someone to intentionally cheat while doing so? Yes and yes.

Is this shootout thread perfect? Hell no and will never be that serious when ran by me. Its based upon the honor system and ill call those out that obviously cheat!

Is diego-ted still the winner? Yes, and thats final. End of topic.

Is running these shootout threads for well over 2years getting old for me? Kinda, and was actually just started because i was sick and tired of people saying they shoot .5moa all day long and was never really intended to be ultra serious. Just a good natured thread based upon the honor system.

Are both moboost and diego-ted good people? Yes.

Am i getting tired of running the shootout threads? Someone else is more than welcome to run the next bolt action shootout, but be forwarned its not all that easy and will take time out of your life. Keep in mind im running many other shootout threads other than this one that are on round3 spanning well over 2years.

Has the new round3 bolt action shootout 100yard be cancelled? Yes, the thread will be deleted until i can get the motivation to do it again or if someone else wants to run it. I need a break. I too have a life outside of the hide working and spending time with my GF rather than shooting rifles and posting stuff on the hide 24/7.

Are my threads about having fun, kicking ass, and trying to inform my fellow hidesmen the best way i find possible as a weekend warrior? Fuck yeah!

First off, shooting is not my LIFE, I work 50 to 60 hours a week serving Veteran’s who have sacrificed plenty to serve this great country.* I shoot for fun and relaxation.* This challenge looked like a fun thing to do and something to kill a little time.

*I have never used “On Target” before but may look into using it in the future!* However; from what I can tell of “ON Target”* Where one decides to click on to indicate the center of the hole is still subjective and not exact; therefore, the results can very depending on where one chooses to call the center of the hole.*

Anyhow, upon returning from the range, after shooting the groups,* I pulled out my calipers, stuck a bullet between the jaws and zeroed them.* I then measured each group from the furthest outside to outside as best as I could tell; I did no pay too much attention to any particular part of this process.* I then took a picture of the smallest group as the contest rules requested and posted the results.* Normally I would measure from what I could discern as the center of the two furthest holes but this is not what “THE RULES” of this contest called for.** The rules of this contest did not call for using a laser for measurement, or for using a computer program to quantify the results, or to check each contributors entry, I just followed the rules the way Elfster laid them out nothing more and* nothing less.

I have now been educated on the flaw in the way I have been measuring for the past 3 or so years that I have been shooting and may look into the program.* So without resorting to calling anyone names, I will withdraw from the contest and wish you all the best of luck.

Later Diego

 

[MoBoost]

Is diego-ted still the winner? Yes, and thats final. End of topic.

I know you got a full plate and tired of this shit ... not only the winner has questionable measurements, the entry doesn't follow the OP rules ...

But like I said, your challenge, your rules, your call ...

6.) Post picture of entire target showing all 6 groupings / measurements with calipers still on your best grouping!! NO picture, then it didn't happen!!
13.) Please put the type of rifle, your sniper's hide name, and date you consecutively shot at the top of your target!

 

[elfster1234]

the one thing ive realized after running these shootout threads are:

1.) 99 out of 100 people that post entries on my shootout threads never follows every rule to the "t" and NEVER follows the example entry perfectly... LOL ... and if you press someone hard enough to follow every single rule they just give up and don't post... I can only think of a very small handful of people that is really close to the example entry.

2.) if you make it too hard to post with too much time invested to post the info = you will get a small amount of people posting.

3.) no matter how many rules you make, no matter how much time you invest to make it somewhat "perfect" for everyone involved (serious and not-so-serious), there will always be some a-hole that will knock down your idea and how it can be better.

4.) just like in the movie "TED" about a walking, talking, fucking, pot smoking teddy bear... no matter how awesome something might be today, given enough time, people get tired of it and it just becomes so so & normal.


As a side note, moboost, you game for running the next bolt action shootout? it's all yours... rules and all. Not like you need my permission anyway. It's all yours.

I know you got a full plate and tired of this shit ... not only the winner has questionable measurements, the entry doesn't follow the OP rules ...

But like I said, your challenge, your rules, your call ...

6.) Post picture of entire target showing all 6 groupings / measurements with calipers still on your best grouping!! NO picture, then it didn't happen!!
13.) Please put the type of rifle, your sniper's hide name, and date you consecutively shot at the top of your target!

 

[MoBoost]

As a side note, moboost, you game for running the next bolt action shootout? it's all yours... rules and all. Not like you need my permission anyway. It's all yours.

I would love to ...

 

[elfster1234]

I'm looking forward to it and hopefully you can improve on what I started without investing too much time for free. I think I've done these shootout threads for free long enough. It's time for me to produce my own entries while someone else runs the show. I'm sure you will come up with some good ideas.

I would love to ...