I’m rigging up a sawzall with a SS brush and some Mt. Kīlauea pumice + CLR. Is this ok? Asking for a friend.
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How and when to utilize abrasive bore cleaners
- Thread starter Lawnboi
- Start date
Hmmm… how can I make an adapter from cleaning rod to sawzall?
You can weld just about anything together with a “farm rod.” Just ask the guy building the bridge for his tractor…
I hope you sent him a big invoice, Frank. Otherwise, he'll be convinced that he doesn't have to clean his gun and he just needs to send it to you to clean
I'd probably make money! That's the scary part! Somebody will buy it!
He just said oh. Guess I need a new one. So he's buying another barrel.I hope you sent him a big invoice, Frank. Otherwise, he'll be convinced that he doesn't have to clean his gun and he just needs to send it to you to clean
I'm near here and starting to learn that trying to figure out new ways of cleaning. I rocked an m4 for 6 years at Fort Hood, and we just clp the shit out of everything, then recently getting into long range I hear about so much more stuff, different types of cleaning tools (we just use otis kits), different cleaning chemicals, grease vs lube vs clp. Jesus fuck I think my brain is going to explode. Then I ran into a guy (walked I don't run after the army lol) who worked I believe for Daniel Defense and asked him about recommended cleaning. He told me the bolt, carrier group moving parts keep relatively clean, but he threw me a curve ball, and said don't clean the barrel until you see accuracy degrade. Especially on cheaper barrels something about filling in imperfections. Like fuck me, this world is confusing at times. Don't even get me into the barrel break in stuff.
It`s.......overwhelming and stunningly confusing. I`m relatively new to rifle shooting ( at least in civilian life ) and it has amazed me as to how much more complex I find it as compared to shotgun shooting.
My lesson learned: just do what @Frank Green says to do to clean your barrel. Ignore any advice to the contrary. Your life will be better and simpler. Enjoy.
Dude yes, like fck me there is so much shit. m4-240b clp clp clp and it's clean no issues with it. Long range civilian or civilian gun world. Clean after every shooting, make sure to have beer, use this or that cleaner, just this solvent, use grease on things that slide, use oil/lube on things that rotate or have tight tolerances, but wait depending on the weather use this or that. Clean your optic lens's with orphan tears, take the bolt of your ar lube it with the juices from Sasha Grey's throat. Don't use anything steel, use copper or brass brushes, wait never mind don't use those either use nylon, don't stick anything hard down the barrel use otis cords. oh shit don't do any of that use brake clean and motor oil. fuck me man.
Honest question here, has anybody caused damage by using an undersized nylon brush (6 mm in a 6.5 for example) wrapped completely in a patch with JB and Kroil?
I asked because I have tried it in a few barrels I didn’t care about just to see if I could do any damage and I haven’t been able to (at least that I can see with a Teslong) I have a high round count 22-250 that wasn’t shooting like it had and figured it was probably at the end of its life and I JB’d that thing till my arms were tired and not only was it the cleanest barrel I have ever seen but I can’t find any damage whatsoever and it’s back to shooting great.
Is there a chance guys are using bronze brushes or Jb bore shine or other more aggressive abrasives and then claiming “just JB bore paste” when they ruin barrels?
I asked because I have tried it in a few barrels I didn’t care about just to see if I could do any damage and I haven’t been able to (at least that I can see with a Teslong) I have a high round count 22-250 that wasn’t shooting like it had and figured it was probably at the end of its life and I JB’d that thing till my arms were tired and not only was it the cleanest barrel I have ever seen but I can’t find any damage whatsoever and it’s back to shooting great.
Is there a chance guys are using bronze brushes or Jb bore shine or other more aggressive abrasives and then claiming “just JB bore paste” when they ruin barrels?
@Frank Green did a good job explaining why to avoid a brush from what he has observed.
That being said, the thing to ask yourself is did the rod rotate and follow the rifling when you did it?
Even with the rod rotating....your still not going to stop or minimize the damage with a brush and abrasive.
Good point to bring up about a good cleaning rod and the handle rotating freely.
So what is the consensus on using JB bore paste with kroil on the little VFG pellets on a good rod? I thought I had barrel cleaning finally ironed out but after watching Erik Cortinas video recently with Frank I feel like im more confused than ever. To give context my rifle is a dedicated PRS rifle that will likely see strings of fire from 100-250 rounds on a given weekend. Would it be safe to use JB bore paste after that 250-300 round mark to get rid of the super hard carbon that forms on a PRS rifle? I know Frank says he only uses a patch with certain cleaners but there is no way that is getting all the carbon out of my rifle after a 2 day match. Also how clean should I be getting my rifle? I am capable of getting it down to bare steel with the JB but at what point am I doing damage? Ive been a bartlein customer ever since I started having precision rifles built and I just want to have a clean reliable barrel that wont give me any issues in the middle of a match.....
It would be interesting to hear what Frank had to say about the caliber specific VFG felt pellets along with a few dabs of Kroil and JB bore paste. It seems to work for me on a heavily carbon fouled barrel but is not needed on a regular basis.
Thanks I agree on the sparingly, but it really works well. I have been using Hoppes #9 and patches with the occasional bronze bristle brush for about 50 years now and it seemed to work on almost all crud/carbon removal. The only problem with Hoppes is the stench. It's a garage job definitely, not for the basement. I have been trying some of the newer products the last few years and don't find them any better, with some of them basically odorless but useless. Now, if someone can come up with a self cleaning barrel........ You know like the oven.
@Frank Green I have some abrasive’s coming to try. I wanted some on hand for those carbon rings you just can’t get out. I’ve never used it. I currently have a 6bra barrel with 2800 on it, so it’s on its way out anyways. It’s getting very difficult to clean and I have its replacement already spun up and broken in. I’ll use this barre as my tester.
Is there a procedure you feel is best when using an abrasive? Patch and jag I understand but how much? How many passes? The barrel still shoots really good just becoming a nightmare to maintain and I’m going pull it but would like to use it for a learning curve.
Is there a procedure you feel is best when using an abrasive? Patch and jag I understand but how much? How many passes? The barrel still shoots really good just becoming a nightmare to maintain and I’m going pull it but would like to use it for a learning curve.
I have used this method and while it works OK I have found that a Parker Hale jag with a patch that is trimmed to be tight in the bore
works better. The VFG pellet will crush and not put as much pressure on the bore as a patch on a Parker Hale jag and has far less surface area for the abrasive. Bottom line is less strokes for the same result.
Wipeout or Shooters Choice foam for 2-3 hour sits. I’ve not found the accelerator to do much more when combined with Wipeout foam. I think Shooters Choice foam works slightly better and the can/application tube is much better than Wipeout.
I noticed the foam stays foamy longer in the bore when a second application is given 10-30 min after first. (Leaving the first in the bore) Foam has always taken care of the carbon ring too. If any carbon ring still present, a 1-2 caliber size larger bronze or nylon brush with even CLP and short strokes and a few spins gets it clean.
For copper build up, I found flushing each product use out of the bore with 91% alcohol before applying a different cleaner gets the copper out faster. Lately the PVA plug and bore filled with Hoppes black copper solvent overnight sit gets all copper out.
I just let products and time eat the carbon & copper. No need for abrasives, unless you’re going after the hard carbon that looks like stains on the metal. Usually that is only the throat and few inches down the bore. (Caused by faster shooting. I’ve not had hard carbon in hunting guns I shoot cold and slow) Only to clean that hard carbon would I use abrasive paste.
I noticed the foam stays foamy longer in the bore when a second application is given 10-30 min after first. (Leaving the first in the bore) Foam has always taken care of the carbon ring too. If any carbon ring still present, a 1-2 caliber size larger bronze or nylon brush with even CLP and short strokes and a few spins gets it clean.
For copper build up, I found flushing each product use out of the bore with 91% alcohol before applying a different cleaner gets the copper out faster. Lately the PVA plug and bore filled with Hoppes black copper solvent overnight sit gets all copper out.
I just let products and time eat the carbon & copper. No need for abrasives, unless you’re going after the hard carbon that looks like stains on the metal. Usually that is only the throat and few inches down the bore. (Caused by faster shooting. I’ve not had hard carbon in hunting guns I shoot cold and slow) Only to clean that hard carbon would I use abrasive paste.
Hotter loads seem to leave much more stubborn carbon. If you need the speed for long range then barrel soaking as mention is the way to go. For my needs I load at the lower velocity accuracy node and cleanup seem easier. I shoot 140 eld-m in my 6.5 CM 2700-2750 and in my 308 around 2600+/- and those are easier to clean for me.
Never messed with the felt pellets. Never seen a need to as far as that goes.
So sorry but cannot give you any personal feed back on them at this time.
What's the difference with using a snug fitting patch? The way I clean my guns I haven't seen the need to change my cleaning routine (patch vs pellets).
I asked Mark here if he has ever used them. He says they scare the shit out of him. LOL!
I guess it's like anything else. Pay attention to what your doing and don't over do it. Use it when needed and not all the time.
Later, Frank
I clean the barrel first to get all the loose fouling out and to get rid of most of the copper fouling if any.
If I'm in a hurry I use Sweet's 7.62 solvent. Wet patch after another till they come out clean. Once the patches are coming out clean...then I'll dry patch the bore completely. They I get a patch soaked with Rem. 40x cleaner or a patch with JB bore compound (not the bore brite) on it. I'll full length stroke the barrel about 10x (I don't exit the muzzle) and I'll short stroke the throat area of the chamber maybe another 10x more. Finally I'll push that patch out all the way and exit the muzzle. All with the same patch.
Then dry patch the bore out and and then a couple of patches of solvent again. Dry it out and then I'll give it a light coat of Hoppe's #9. Dry patch the bore out before you shoot it. Dry patch the chamber as well before shooting it.
Later, Frank
Thanks. I generally use patches as well to keep it clean. +1 on the 40x cleaner I always have a stash and it does an amazing job. The only time I use the pellets is for super stubborn carbon/copper. I like the longer bearing surface of 3 of them screwed LIGHTLY onto the threaded jag if they are torqued down too much the diameter grows. Hoppes #9 is hard to beat, left to set a while it loosens all the crud most of the time. I do prefer shooting to cleaning so I generally shoot until accuracy starts to go before a thorough clean. Thanks again.
Greg
Greg
Thanks frank,
I’ll be giving this method a go to see if I can get another few hundred rounds out of it wjth slightly better cleaning. Unfortunately I don’t have those products so will be using Iosso and boretech product. I appreciate your time.
Had a 6.5 twist 22GT barrel start shedding jackets this past weekend with around 1250 rounds on it. No issues prior. Haven’t had a chance to look at it but I have to think the throat is looking pretty grizzly right about now… it saw a steady diet of 3180fps for most of its life.
I had a pretty gnarly carbon ring start to develop around 800 rounds or so - got that cleaned out and it went back to shooting very well for another 200ish rounds. Same deal at 1k, starting getting some nice pressure and whacky consistency, gave it another good cleaning and it went back to shooting well until this weekend.
I’m thinking this barrel is more than likely torched anyway, but my leftover ammo and unwavering curiosity will probably get the best of me and I’ll end up giving it the ol’ razzle dazzle one last time.
Iosso or JB bore paste? If I effectively kill this barrel then so be it, but wondering if an abrasive might clean it up enough to get another couple hundred out of it. Will try to report back once I’ve done some testing.
I had a pretty gnarly carbon ring start to develop around 800 rounds or so - got that cleaned out and it went back to shooting very well for another 200ish rounds. Same deal at 1k, starting getting some nice pressure and whacky consistency, gave it another good cleaning and it went back to shooting well until this weekend.
I’m thinking this barrel is more than likely torched anyway, but my leftover ammo and unwavering curiosity will probably get the best of me and I’ll end up giving it the ol’ razzle dazzle one last time.
Iosso or JB bore paste? If I effectively kill this barrel then so be it, but wondering if an abrasive might clean it up enough to get another couple hundred out of it. Will try to report back once I’ve done some testing.
Just don't use a brush with an abrasive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will wreck the barrel.
My buddy swears by thoroclean or whatever it’s called. Just follows the instructions on the bottle. We did that to my last 22GT barrel as it started shooting bad at 1800ish rounds. Never did shoot it again after we cleaned it, but the amount of shit that came out of it after using thoroclean was impressive to say the least.
I just stick with CLR and boretech eliminator. Nylon ar15 chamber brush on a drill wipes that carbon ring right out after either treatment and have not seen any measurable difference in accuracy doing that.
Not so worried about another carbon ring as I am the throat feeling like 100 grit sandpaper… feel like an abrasive may take some of the roughness out of it and at least allow bullets to pass through the bore without blowing up.
I’m positive ~350k RPMs is not helping matters either but I digress… not super concerned about this barrel’s longevity.
Frank Green
www.snipershide.com
Wouldn’t think of using a brush with abrasive; in fact, I’ve gotten away from using brushes at all.
Frank Green
www.snipershide.com
This may have been answered somewhere else, but I haven’t found it yet.
Question.
Let’s say your rifle barrel is broken in, you go to the range and shoot 50+ rounds, you head home. Do you:
1). Clean the bore with CR4 Carbon Killer and get the carbon out, then lightly oil, put the away, and keep doing this in the future until the accuracy goes south, then you clean with Eliminator?
2). Run a couple patches of oil down the bore followed by a dry patch and put the gun away, and keep doing this in the future until the accuracy goes south, then you clean with Eliminator?
3). Clean with Eliminator after each range trip, getting the copper and the carbon out each time?
or
4). Put the gun away and don’t touch it unless the weather was rainy, and keep doing this in the future until the accuracy goes south, then you clean with Eliminator?
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Is option 4 “put the gun away until the next range trip, possibly but not necessarily taking the time to wipe down the bolt? (Gasser but probably not a bolt gun unless the weather was especially shitty)”Frank Green
Wouldn’t think of using a brush with abrasive; in fact, I’ve gotten away from using brushes at all.
Question.
Let’s say your rifle barrel is broken in, you go to the range and shoot 50+ rounds, you head home. Do you:
1). Clean the bore with CR4 Carbon Killer and get the carbon out, then lightly oil, put the away, and keep doing this in the future until the accuracy goes south, then you clean with Eliminator?
2). Run a couple patches of oil down the bore followed by a dry patch and put the gun away, and keep doing this in the future until the accuracy goes south, then you clean with Eliminator?
or
3). Clean with Eliminator after each range trip, getting the copper and the carbon out each time?
Cant blame the guy, he is probably a hide member and bought into the "I haven't cleaned my barrel for 500 rounds and it still shoots great"
crew.
per convo's with Frank, he does not. He uses a slightly oversized patch wrapped around a Parker Hale jag.
Well I had success with some abrasives as I mentioned above the barrel is high round count and causing issues. I cleaned it heavily and didn’t get much success so decided to try some abrasives carefully. Here are the results
It was a kind of a mix of a few people’s recommendations.
I cleaned the barrel first with boretech products like frank recommended and then dry patches it till it was dry. Used Iosso bore paste for 10 full strokes followed by dry patches and bore scope, then a second patch for 10 short strokes. Pushed a few patches to remove excess followed by bore scope. Then pushed a patch’s of boretech back down to remove anything left, and finally an alcohol patch and 2 dry patches. Looked at the bore scope for every stage.
Before anyone tries this please know, my barrel I was ready to throw out. I’ve never used abrasives before. This is exactly 1 example and that’s it. Please follow steps by the people that have significantly more experience with it and be careful. While I had success I could of easily made it worse according to much more experienced individuals.
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