Yes they should be, I'm shooting a 457 now that has had ZERO malfunctions other than my dumb ass flipping on the safety somehow during a stage, but your comment seemed to reflect something negative other than that. I've had to use a clearing rod to get a jam out of someones rifle as well, but again my original comment was more that there is work to do by the person to adjust than with there was with the tool and that's why I asked about the magazine adjustment since I think that would lead to more issues that are readily solved by the user.
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I was looking for advice like that. I don't even have my action yet so I didn't know that was something in the box. My thought was, this adjustment would solve a lot of the issue people are addressing. The sweet spot you stated is something I think could benefit those with problems. Thank you.
I went back to a 457 as well because I know it will feed and function 100% of the time. Setting the mag height isn’t rocket science and mine ran good most of the time If I paid attention to how i ran the bolt. It was the weakside stages or up against a barricade where running the bolt in a unnatural way is when the problems showed up. Theres a fine line between the extractor catching the round or missing it. Im not trying to badmouth a rimx but there is a real issue. Nobody wants to spend $2000 on a barreled action that they cant be confident in
Truth, I don't want to put this thing together and get LESS performance than what I have with what I'm shooting now, But were your issues something that you think could have been fixed with a little more information than what's out there now? That's all I was trying to get at.
Like I stated above I believe most of my problems came from the 5 round extension and using the existing spring from the 10 round mags. Most all of my problems were failure to be captured by the extractor and tensioner. I’ve since stopped using the 5 rd extensions and so far have not had a problem but I’ve also not shot a match yet with only using the 10rd mags. I’ve shot 5 matches with my RimX and have had a malfunction in all 5 matches. 2 have taken a ramrod to remove the round. I think if your going to use the 5rd extensions there needs to be a xtra power spring for this use.
To be clear, the instructions on the card in the box related to magazine adjustment are:
For best feeding, ensure magazine has no more than 1/16" of vertical play
To adjust magazine height, T10 driver is required
That's not a lot of information if something isn't working smoothly.
We'll do our best to help everyone if they encounter a problem. The truth of the matter is relatively easy for me to address: with as many of these products as we have out in the wild compared to the number of issues that have been sent to us, we don't have a product problem. That means, we've been contacted by a handful of people running into 2 or 3 common issues that are not catastrophic or unsolvable with current product revisions (of which there have been none to production). The common issues being related to feeding or ejection due to a handful of variables. We'll work through them with you.
Let's go through some general points.
What WE'RE doing at Zermatt:
We're not building rifle systems. We don't want to build rifle systems. We want to build actions that allow you to put whatever spin on it to develop the best rifle system for yourself. If this doesn't fit your need, please go through the extensive network of qualified rifle system builders this country has to offer to fill that need.
What YOU need to know FIRST about RimX:
This system is different in a LOT of ways than what the community is used to. We're using a fixed extractor. Has anyone familiarized themselves with a similar system? We can't find one. In order to use that fixed extractor system, we needed the ability to "tune" the feeding cycle so we implemented a height adjustable magazine latch. That's not a brand new idea, but it's not a very popular system in the world we all work within. We decided to go with these designs because our model has been to produce products that allow the most customization options as humanly possible. We want you to be able to pick whatever barrel blank you want and put whatever chamber inside of it that you want. But you have to realize, when you play with customization, you're introducing variables that may have never been encountered. Just look at how many 22LR chambers that exist in the world today...it's madness.
We don't ask much of our customer base, but we do ask them to take some time to become completely familiar with the system before ripping rounds through it and breaking parts unnecessarily. Call us if you're in doubt or confused, questions don't go unanswered here.
How WE solve problems with our customers:
We can only offer input based on our immediate experiences and what we've heard from others. We're not hiding from issues and never have. We just prefer to handle them in a one on one situation rather than cluttering a public forum with information that may not be applicable in every situation. When we get done with the situation, you're free to post your experiences anywhere you'd like and some of you do a great job clarifying that for the rest of the interested parties. Some don't. We can only spend so much time on the forums and social before we lose track of what we really need to be doing which is making actions for everyone interested to build their unicorn on. Again, if you have a question, call or email us and we'll work through it with you
We sincerely appreciate everyone of our customers. We want you to have the best experience possible with our products as well. Like I've said three times here and countless times otherwise, if you EVER have an issue, please send me/us an email and we'll work through any issue you may have.
Respectfully - Ray
Let's go through some general points.
What WE'RE doing at Zermatt:
We're not building rifle systems. We don't want to build rifle systems. We want to build actions that allow you to put whatever spin on it to develop the best rifle system for yourself. If this doesn't fit your need, please go through the extensive network of qualified rifle system builders this country has to offer to fill that need.
What YOU need to know FIRST about RimX:
This system is different in a LOT of ways than what the community is used to. We're using a fixed extractor. Has anyone familiarized themselves with a similar system? We can't find one. In order to use that fixed extractor system, we needed the ability to "tune" the feeding cycle so we implemented a height adjustable magazine latch. That's not a brand new idea, but it's not a very popular system in the world we all work within. We decided to go with these designs because our model has been to produce products that allow the most customization options as humanly possible. We want you to be able to pick whatever barrel blank you want and put whatever chamber inside of it that you want. But you have to realize, when you play with customization, you're introducing variables that may have never been encountered. Just look at how many 22LR chambers that exist in the world today...it's madness.
We don't ask much of our customer base, but we do ask them to take some time to become completely familiar with the system before ripping rounds through it and breaking parts unnecessarily. Call us if you're in doubt or confused, questions don't go unanswered here.
How WE solve problems with our customers:
We can only offer input based on our immediate experiences and what we've heard from others. We're not hiding from issues and never have. We just prefer to handle them in a one on one situation rather than cluttering a public forum with information that may not be applicable in every situation. When we get done with the situation, you're free to post your experiences anywhere you'd like and some of you do a great job clarifying that for the rest of the interested parties. Some don't. We can only spend so much time on the forums and social before we lose track of what we really need to be doing which is making actions for everyone interested to build their unicorn on. Again, if you have a question, call or email us and we'll work through it with you
We sincerely appreciate everyone of our customers. We want you to have the best experience possible with our products as well. Like I've said three times here and countless times otherwise, if you EVER have an issue, please send me/us an email and we'll work through any issue you may have.
Respectfully - Ray
Yeah... the only "real" problem is lots of people building rifles that aren't qualified to do so.
And then when their "project" doesn't function they just go ahead and blame the action manufacturer.
Just no more common sense in this world.....
I assume this is the main reason
Doesn't a cz 457 have the magazine box attached and adjusted by a cz GUNSMITH in the factory wile assembling the system?
If so then this is the reason you can mount this barreled action in any stock with the correct opening without having any feeding issues.
With a RimX, vudoo or br14r you need to adjust the magazine perfectly if you choose to build a rifle yourself. There are a ton of stock and chassis options with acis style mag wells or bottom metal that work fine with CF rifles. That does not mean they work perfectly with one of the 22lr actions from these 3 manufacturers.
So my suggestion to everybody inexperienced is to read, ask questions or contact the manufacturer in this case Zermatt, and they will help you.
I don't find any post of yours were you ask for help regarding issues with your RimX. You mention somewhere the use of thunderbolts....
Doesn't a cz 457 have the magazine box attached and adjusted by a cz GUNSMITH in the factory wile assembling the system?
If so then this is the reason you can mount this barreled action in any stock with the correct opening without having any feeding issues.
With a RimX, vudoo or br14r you need to adjust the magazine perfectly if you choose to build a rifle yourself. There are a ton of stock and chassis options with acis style mag wells or bottom metal that work fine with CF rifles. That does not mean they work perfectly with one of the 22lr actions from these 3 manufacturers.
So my suggestion to everybody inexperienced is to read, ask questions or contact the manufacturer in this case Zermatt, and they will help you.
Here’s a question: Other than adjusting the magazine catch to put the mag as close to the bolt as possible and leaving no more than 1/16” of play, do you have any tips to make it run smoothly and reliably?
Given COVID restrictions and closures due to fires, I have not been able to work much with mine. The only thing I have noticed other than the above is that some ammo works better, I assume due to having more consistent specs.
run your bolt smoothly...you'll be amazed how well it feeds
it's not a push feed sloppy Remington.
My RimX in a KRG Bravo chassis was easy to set the magazine catch adjustment. I bought 3 mags and all of them were simple to adjust and all run smoothly. The first 100 rounds had a fair number that were hard to chamber, I really had to muscle the bolt forward to close, but after the first 100 rounds, the action feeds flawlessly and is smooth as glass. I'm not sure why the hard to chamber issue was there in the first few rounds, perhaps the fixed extractor needed some rounds to smooth it out.
See my previous post, my RimX needed a bit of a "break in" period to run smoothly.
Just on the under side of 10,000 rounds through my main RimX. It was pretty good to begin with, but just as every good action... it does get smoother as you shoot it a bit. After about 3-4k, it became every bit as smooth as my Lone Peak Fuzion's... and has stayed that way.
Mine was surprisingly smooth since day one, actually shooting my buddies when he first got his is what sold me on the RimX.
Took my RimX out for her maiden voyage. Feeding was rough but smoothed out after I got the mag latch adjusted just a little bit.
Group sizes with SK Standard were AWFUL. I knew something had to be off so I grabbed the FixItSticks and changed my action screw torque from 65 in*lbs to 45 in*lbs and group sizes shrunk by half. I don't feel the rifle is anywhere near it's potential yet but it was fun to get 100 rounds down the barrel and get a feel for the system.
Group sizes with SK Standard were AWFUL. I knew something had to be off so I grabbed the FixItSticks and changed my action screw torque from 65 in*lbs to 45 in*lbs and group sizes shrunk by half. I don't feel the rifle is anywhere near it's potential yet but it was fun to get 100 rounds down the barrel and get a feel for the system.
Has anyone here had multiple ejection failures after getting the mag latch set correctly for smooth feeding and cutting & polishing a nice .010"-.015" radius on the mouth of the chamber? And if you have seen this, did stoning a few thou off the sharp point of the hook of the tensioner fix it? I've read through all 24pgs of this thread over the past couple of days (and late evenings), and it seems like I read that very issue & solution somewhere, but didn't make a note of which page & reply # it was...
By installing my B14r in a Oryx and not being able to adjust properly for trouble free feeding. Numerous mag catch levers were installed,
but couldn't stop the mag from dropping in the front chamber area. The bottom metal mag well in the original stock has different dimensions and angles forward. If you pull the mag in the front area down and release it "snaps" back up against the barrel / chamber area.
I see vudoo rifles in MPA chassis with the same issue, the front of the mag drop's and owners install a screw in the trigger guard
to push the front of the mags up and call it no "no big deal".
I measured all 3 magazines, Rimx, Vudoo and B14r, all have different outer dimensions. But we like to install them in the same SA 700 chassis / stocks, some work and some don't without modifications.
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I forgot to mention that my Rimx installed in the same mdt oryx chassis has no function / operating issues at all, with just a little over 1000 rounds trough it. Feeds and extract perfect with not even one malfunction yet. I did the same as you, lubed the magazine followers when I received my mags slightly with a syn. gun oil.
That is because you are a Value Added Reseller and have refined the "Rifle System", one reason that when I buy a RimX, I am will to use a VAR rather than home build and have potential problems. Buy once, cry once.
I spoke with Aaron at Zermatt over the phone, looking for some info concerning accuracy & ejection issues I was having with a new RimX I'd just barreled myself. I used a Bartlein blank, and had set headspace so the bolt would just close on the included headspace gauge, and initial accuracy was awful. Also had quite a few failures to eject. When I explained that I'd used their headspace gauge as a go gauge, he stopped me right there and told me it's intended as a no-go gauge, and mentioned that fact was on the included info card in the box. Thinking maybe I'd missed that tidbit of important info, I went back and looked the card over carefully - the only reference to the gauge is where it says the extractor & tensioner have to be removed from the bolthead before trying to close the bolt on the gauge - no mention of why the rim in this gauge is so thick - IIRC, .052". So, feeling rather ignorant and stupid for not calling first after measuring the rim on the gauge and finding it was so thick, I pulled the bbl & set it back .010". The accuracy improved by a bunch, but I was still having nearly 20% failure to eject. I also wasn't seeing much if any engraving of the front driving band of the bullet by the lands, so pulled the bbl again, and this time, set it back .070", which allowed my EPS reamer to cut pretty much an entirely new leade area. New SK rounds chambered & removed showed plenty of engraving on the front driving band of the bullet now. The EPS reamer also has a .010"-.015" radius ground at the junction of the body/rim, so it was cutting a nice radius on the mouth of the chamber. All I needed to do was polish it a bit with the rounded-end of a very fine grit Cratex rod while spinning the bbl in the lathe.
Moving on to the failures to eject - Aaron & Ray both said I needed to check the extractor under magnification to make certain it wasn't damaged by chambering rounds before setting the mag height up. But when I told them that I'd adjusted the mag latches on both my mags as per the recommendation on the card before trying to chamber a round, they both opined that I wouldn't find any damage, and were correct. Somewhere in this thread, I know I read that someone had stoned a bit of radius on the bottom edge of the tensioner's hook, so I got out a set of white ceramic stones and went to work on the tensioner. That little hook area on the RimX tensioner isn't very thick, so I didn't get carried away - just stoned enough of a radius on the bottom edge of the hook so that it was just barely touching the case body with a round seated up into the extractor. Also got out a triangle stone and cut a very slight radius with the corner of the stone in the back corner of the hook to allow the case rim to slide up into the hook more smoothly. Cleaned all traces of the stone work up, blew the bolthead clean with compressed air, reassembled the bolt, torqued the bbl back into the action, and went out to test fire at 50yds. It feeds even more smoothly than at first, the accuracy is excellent, and I had no failures to eject out of the 100+rds I fired after completing the work. So yesterday morning, I pulled the bbl - again - degreased, blasted, and CeraKoted with Armor Black, and put it all back together again. Going to take it out to my range to re-zero the scope at 50yds, then back off to 200 and do some shooting on a rack of 1/4" thick AR500 plates to see how it shoots at distance. Ray has sent out a couple of new tensioners (one that's been tuned) and a new extractor, which is a comfort - if I went a bit too far on the tensioner, it should show up within a few hundred rounds, and I'll replace it with one of the ones he's sent. If you've spent any time taking a close look at the tensioner hook, you'll notice that I removed a fair bit of the sharp bottom corner of mine - that's actually a little more than I intended to stone off it. If it continues to work with 100% reliability as it did a couple of evenings ago, no sweat. If not, I've got parts to try again. Thanks for the help Zermatt!
ETA - I knew I'd read that someone else had stoned a slight radius on the bottom corner of the tensioner; while looking back in this thread, I found that drglock's #1044 reply on pg 21 was the one I was looking for, concerning working on his bolt after it was dropped on a concrete floor to fix ejection issues.
Moving on to the failures to eject - Aaron & Ray both said I needed to check the extractor under magnification to make certain it wasn't damaged by chambering rounds before setting the mag height up. But when I told them that I'd adjusted the mag latches on both my mags as per the recommendation on the card before trying to chamber a round, they both opined that I wouldn't find any damage, and were correct. Somewhere in this thread, I know I read that someone had stoned a bit of radius on the bottom edge of the tensioner's hook, so I got out a set of white ceramic stones and went to work on the tensioner. That little hook area on the RimX tensioner isn't very thick, so I didn't get carried away - just stoned enough of a radius on the bottom edge of the hook so that it was just barely touching the case body with a round seated up into the extractor. Also got out a triangle stone and cut a very slight radius with the corner of the stone in the back corner of the hook to allow the case rim to slide up into the hook more smoothly. Cleaned all traces of the stone work up, blew the bolthead clean with compressed air, reassembled the bolt, torqued the bbl back into the action, and went out to test fire at 50yds. It feeds even more smoothly than at first, the accuracy is excellent, and I had no failures to eject out of the 100+rds I fired after completing the work. So yesterday morning, I pulled the bbl - again - degreased, blasted, and CeraKoted with Armor Black, and put it all back together again. Going to take it out to my range to re-zero the scope at 50yds, then back off to 200 and do some shooting on a rack of 1/4" thick AR500 plates to see how it shoots at distance. Ray has sent out a couple of new tensioners (one that's been tuned) and a new extractor, which is a comfort - if I went a bit too far on the tensioner, it should show up within a few hundred rounds, and I'll replace it with one of the ones he's sent. If you've spent any time taking a close look at the tensioner hook, you'll notice that I removed a fair bit of the sharp bottom corner of mine - that's actually a little more than I intended to stone off it. If it continues to work with 100% reliability as it did a couple of evenings ago, no sweat. If not, I've got parts to try again. Thanks for the help Zermatt!
ETA - I knew I'd read that someone else had stoned a slight radius on the bottom corner of the tensioner; while looking back in this thread, I found that drglock's #1044 reply on pg 21 was the one I was looking for, concerning working on his bolt after it was dropped on a concrete floor to fix ejection issues.
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Great information here, Dennis.
For a point of reference, we have started to stone that bottom edge of the tensioner slightly during assembly. We've had fewer calls and emails regarding the issue this is related to so I think it's a solid fix for any issues. I'll keep my eyes open for more issues.
Thanks everyone!
Can someone advise me what to try? My rifle is feeding and extracting very well. The issue I have is occasionally the bullet will feed but its not captured by the bolt, thus the bolt want shut. I have to remove the bullet with a wooden dowel. Is this a mag adjustment issue?
That's more than likely a result of the tensioner making contact with the case body. Pop that out and stone the bottom corner of that part away. .010 - .015" should be enough so roughly 2 passes on a medium stone.
Thank you - Ray
The final piece of this puzzle arrived yesterday, McMillan delivered two months early! Time to pack and ship to Shawnee Oklahoma, should be a functioning rifle around first of the year!
MANNERS
For Remington size screws / actions
- Action Screws: 65 in-lbs Front / 45 in-lbs Rear
Torque Specs | Fix It Sticks
The following torque specs were gathered through various means, and to the best of our ability. We do not guarantee that they are correct, or that the manufacturer has not changed them. If you think any of the information in incorrect, or have some values that you would like us to add, please...
store.fixitsticks.com
MANNERS
For Remington size screws / actions
- Action Screws: 65 in-lbs Front / 45 in-lbs Rear
Torque Specs | Fix It Sticks
The following torque specs were gathered through various means, and to the best of our ability. We do not guarantee that they are correct, or that the manufacturer has not changed them. If you think any of the information in incorrect, or have some values that you would like us to add, please...
Thank you sir,for the quick reply.
I book marked that page from Fix-it-sticks as its VERY helpful.
No problem to find it and post it.
Hope it helps. As you may have noted, Fix-it-sticks takes no responsibility for the accuracy of the many torque specs listed on this page....their lawyers prob made them say that! haha
Hard to see how you can go wrong with those numbers but it may well be worthwhile to just call Manners tomorrow and ask.
I was trying to do some testing off rests on a bench at 50yds yesterday morning to find out if various action screw torque had any effect on groups shot with my RimX in a Manners PRS1T stock. I'd been shooting with torque at 50 in/lbs both front & rear screws, so tried 55 frt/50 rear & 65 frot/55 rear. Didn't see anything that would indicate a difference, but the breeze from the NW/11:00 started picking up & letting off to the point that I felt I was wasting time & ammo. If I get a nice calm morning on a day when I've got time to shoot, I'll go back down to 45/40 in/lbs and work my way back up from there. I ordered this stock with std inlet, not the mini chassis, then glued in aluminum pillars, let them cure for 16hrs, then bedded the bbl'd action with Marine Tex. I'm thinking that optimum torque for a std bedded stock may be a little lighter than for one in a mini chassis, but only testing will tell...
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The only time guard screw torque adjustment should show a difference in performance, is if you have a poorly designed/improper tolerance chassis, bad bed job, or an out of spec or flimsy action. I have witnessed some very popular chassis creating much stress in actions, which is evidenced by the improvement of groups based on guard screw torque. This is part of the reason I never recommend chassis setups unless they are skim bedded and matched to a specific action. Not to say they "can't" work... it's simply to say they often introduce problems, much to the dismay of their owners, that spend ridiculous time and effort troubleshooting a problem, never once considering the chassis is to blame.
A properly built action with correct bedding interface, will not show accuracy/precision variance from minimal torque, all the way to 65 in/lbs. Period.
A properly built action with correct bedding interface, will not show accuracy/precision variance from minimal torque, all the way to 65 in/lbs. Period.
A properly built action with correct bedding interface, will not show accuracy/precision variance from minimal torque, all the way to 65 in/lbs. Period.
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You sounds like my gunsmith orkan,I heard this line too from my gunsmith who bed/pillar stock a lot.too much is too too much!
i will confess i was crazy about that stuff TOO!! until i heard it from my gunsmith.I thought he just made it up and tired of me as LOYAL customer then ignore my request.Now i know he just try to help me out
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You sounds like my gunsmith orkan,I heard this line too from my gunsmith who bed/pillar stock a lot.too much is too too much!
i will confess i was crazy about that stuff TOO!! until i heard it from my gunsmith.I thought he just made it up and tired of me as LOYAL customer then ignore my request.Now i know he just try to help me out
Yes, Greg is correct from my experience. The only exception is if your beating the hell out of the rifle and have super light torque (guessing under 30lbin) you may experience a screw coming lose or a POI shift.
Well, as I stated in my post, I saw no differences in group size or shape, so will simply torque the RimX's action screws to the same values I use with custom CF rifles - 55 inch/lbs front/50 rear. No point making it more complicated by choosing some different values
That's why I go with 20/20, front and rear on everything. It's easier to keep up with.
Yeah that a better way of saying what I tried to say. I still go with 65lbin if the bedding has metal pillars in it, if it is just a wood stock that is skim bedded I’ll torque to about 45-50 lbin.
Hi yo folks, MY RIM X continue to "NEVER CEASE TO AMAZE ME!" just recently i change stock and use PTG DBM on it,and i have a problem chambering a round to it,i fire 1st then the 2nd hang up and don't chamber so on and so forth always like that happen to this new set up,but then i adjust the setscrews in the side of the magazine lower just a bit then the problem solve.I like that magazine design for rimx that scews really help this problem.
If this still continue to amaze me again i might get another.
If this still continue to amaze me again i might get another.
Hello gang,
After close to 17 weeks of agony (haha), I just recieved shipping confirmation on my RimX barreled action. The first thing I will be doing is making sure the action is feeding smoothly/correctly. I'm a noob in rifle building, this may be like a silly question, but I'm wondering if you use snap caps or live ammo while cycling rounds and adjusting mag height. Will I be safe with live ammo if I take the firing pin out? Thanks for humoring me.
After close to 17 weeks of agony (haha), I just recieved shipping confirmation on my RimX barreled action. The first thing I will be doing is making sure the action is feeding smoothly/correctly. I'm a noob in rifle building, this may be like a silly question, but I'm wondering if you use snap caps or live ammo while cycling rounds and adjusting mag height. Will I be safe with live ammo if I take the firing pin out? Thanks for humoring me.
I'm confused on how you could do this without using ammo. My understanding is that a common issue is the rim doesn't get fully captured under the extractor. I would think you would need ammo to confirm this.
confirm yes, but you the majority can be done based on vertical play when inserted and latched
too low (in relation to top of mag) it wont slide over the mag catch and be secure. too high and it sits well outside the 1/16" vertical play
Don't use snap caps. You will not get the results you need.
You can very easily remove the firing pin tip and use live ammo to test. Here's a quick video on how to disassemble and reassemble the bolt of the RimX:
Thank you - Ray
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