Rifle Competition Events What would you change or do differently with current competitions/organizations?

[Feniks Technologies]

As far as difficulty for current matches…..

This is a big reason Prentice Wink and David Lott at Tx Precision matches fill their monthly Rimfire and centerfire matches with 80 or so shooters every month more or less.

The winner/s will shoot 90-95% and this allows everyone else to enjoy their time hitting 70-80%.


There’s always the “it’s a competition it should be hard”, but that’s just not how you drive attendance up.

I don’t think 2 day matches should be that easy. But with AG series, I think we can make regional like a or aa ball, 2 days aaa, and AG the pro skill level.

 

[Killer Deal]

As far as difficulty for current matches…..

This is a big reason Prentice Wink and David Lott at Tx Precision matches fill their monthly Rimfire and centerfire matches with 80 or so shooters every month more or less.

The winner/s will shoot 90-95% and this allows everyone else to enjoy their time hitting 70-80%.


There’s always the “it’s a competition it should be hard”, but that’s just not how you drive attendance up.

I don’t think 2 day matches should be that easy. But with AG series, I think we can make regional like a or aa ball, 2 days aaa, and AG the pro skill level.

I like what you pointed out there that the higher hit rate likely the biggest driving factor to retaining people and driving interest.

I think of all the other shooting sports (uspsa, 3 gun, archery ect.) and your hit percentage is high in all these sports. It's rare to miss a target and if you do it's because maybe poor planning, rushing, or didn't see the miss. Everyone by and large will hit everything excluding targets like swingers, flying clay, Texas stars thinks like that can mess people up (yes, there is a higher impetus on speed except archery)

That being said, this is precision rifle, I'm not calling for meatball mall matches, but at the same time the grand majority of us are not snipers either so what should be the expectation?

But anyway I think in the thread that's been spoken on already that your one day matches should feel meatballish to the top level shooters but if that's the case for the average shooter they're looking at 60-80% which is probably a good place to be and the national level matches should be just that for an average shooter to be in the 40-60% range with the top shooters fighting to be above 80%.

For some context, check out any level 1 local uspsa match versus the Texas 3 gun champion match from this year. I know that PRS/NRL isn't the same as the other shooting sports, but I think there's some principles to be gleaned to include maybe a hit per time HF component.

I know people don't want to be at matches until 8 pm, but that should be rather self limiting. 2 day matches will continue to have 90s par times, at a local match its seems like the focus should fun and development of skills, but I digress.

 

[seansmd]

I like what you pointed out there that the higher hit rate likely the biggest driving factor to retaining people and driving interest.

I think of all the other shooting sports (uspsa, 3 gun, archery ect.) and your hit percentage is high in all these sports. It's rare to miss a target and if you do it's because maybe poor planning, rushing, or didn't see the miss. Everyone by and large will hit everything excluding targets like swingers, flying clay, Texas stars thinks like that can mess people up (yes, there is a higher impetus on speed except archery)

That being said, this is precision rifle, I'm not calling for meatball mall matches, but at the same time the grand majority of us are not snipers either so what should be the expectation?

But anyway I think in the thread that's been spoken on already that your one day matches should feel meatballish to the top level shooters but if that's the case for the average shooter they're looking at 60-80% which is probably a good place to be and the national level matches should be just that for an average shooter to be in the 40-60% range with the top shooters fighting to be above 80%.

For some context, check out any level 1 local uspsa match versus the Texas 3 gun champion match from this year. I know that PRS/NRL isn't the same as the other shooting sports, but I think there's some principles to be gleaned to include maybe a hit per time HF component.

I know people don't want to be at matches until 8 pm, but that should be rather self limiting. 2 day matches will continue to have 90s par times, at a local match its seems like the focus should fun and development of skills, but I digress.

Chris Way shared in a recent podcast, I believe 85% success rate is needed by the human brain to feed the cycle of growth and learning. Consistently below that and many will not be motivated to continue to invest time, energy, and money.

 

[Lowlight]

In our lab we are looking at 3 target sizes you’d sign up ahead as a 1,2, or 3MOA shooter

You color code the targets and that way you can challenge each group

It’s like the prize divisions

We are crunching numbers and looking at ways to help promote best practices

 

[Lowlight]

Chris is good because he hits this from every angle,

he looks at data, he crunches number, he attends the events and is able to pick them apart and see what people like and what they don't. His easy going way let's people open up.

I just made a giant order with Austin to build up my range and we'll use it, and I believe he even plans several events on it as part of the laboratory

As I noted above, I am not necessarily interested in taking the reigns on any of this, but I have resources and experience that helps identify and flush out some of this. It's part of the reason for the Crossfire series with Chris to work together and find areas we identify that needs attention

but even in filming this past week, we did 4 episodes, quick screenshot shows I am nowhere near as anti comp as people think I just don't like bullies and lazy people who take advantage of those who don't know any better,

I absolutely understand what it takes to make changes, it's just what changes I want to make and for who...

 

[roostercogburn98]

In our lab we are looking at 3 target sizes you’d sign up ahead as a 1,2, or 3MOA shooter

You color code the targets and that way you can challenge each group

It’s like the prize divisions

We are crunching numbers and looking at ways to help promote best practices

Tom Rayner had his place set up kinda like this for his monthly matches. Each point had different colored/sized targets worth different amounts of points. If was the shooters choice to pick when they came to the line. It was up to the shooter to decide how many points he wanted to score that match.

 

[Lowlight]

The thing is, you can make this changes small, you don't have to be a complete fucking asshole like @sleeplz, only idiots demand and all or nothing change. That is part of their game, they demand unrealistic changes and when you don't meet their needs they scream, see.... ignoring every change you do make in order to improve the experience.

You can take a few stages to start and blend these ideas in and incrementally make changes

Not everyone has resources to place 3 targets at every stage, so you can change the bullshit "skills" stages which are more adaption stages vs a skill. A skill implies everyone is given the same task to perform under the same conditions, prone would be a an example because if your kneeling is my standing that is an adaption stage not a skill. Doing a Kraft drill off a tripod you set for you is a skill, because you control the execution of the skill through your manipulation of the tripod.


Like a blind stage, you might not be able to make all of them blind but even one, designed to stand out can change the trajectory of your match compared to those around it. People get bored very easily.

In the past we always focused on one or two stages to change up completely, that is why people talk about the SHC at Rifles Only the way they do... it was interesting and you knew there would be something different. People spent at week there, from Sunday to Sunday because we made it a destination, not a tourist trap. We had 25 people in the train ups, and 100+ shooting when a match only put 50 asses in the seats. I was the first to break 200 ... let that sink in.

 

[lash]

This is exactly the main problem with current matches. Shooting steel is binary (yes/no).

With paper targets, even un-competitive shooters walk away with a record of mistakes, if not scores, you can get the feedback and learn. When shooting steel, the responsse is binary. Under 50%, you would get very limited feedback purely in terms of information.

This doubly true at 20-25% levels, etc.

IMHO to fix this are to create more feedback to the shooters... not necessarily higher scores, more points, or more prizes.

The problem for MDs is that feedback in LR shooting needs either more steel or live spotters, and both are hard to add without operational complexity or expense. Again, purely operational consdierations, putting aside ego/scoring/ etc.

IMHO there are a couple variables, some talked about here...

(1) More time...
(2) Bigger targets...
(3) Spotters calling shots...

So question for the group, is how to increase training feedback of PRS type stages without consdiering prizes/points/ego/rankings?

Which of the above are most cost effective, logistically scalable, etc?

A quick comment regarding your paper targets idea. Many years ago, or pre-PRS field style matches always had maybe 3-4 paper stages where you got your skills tested and challenged. The PRS got popular and those shooters were the most vocal complainers about paper targets that only gave them incremental points for less than great impacts. Eventually, we did cave and eliminated the paper despite my personal belief that we are supposed to be doing a thing called Precision rifle shooting and that’s all that we were doing, challenging the precision of the shooter.

But since it wasn’t Steel where even an edge strike makes full points, the ‘competitors’ pushed to eliminate it.

On that same note, we used to do true KYL stages, where, if you took a risk and missed, You lost those points. PRS hotshots killed that too, because they didn’t care that the whole point was to actually know your limits. It was all about “muh points.”

 

[Lowlight]

The inmates run the asylum which is why guys want to bitch when we talk about changes

We always had paper stages, at the time you can shoot 4 to 6 variations in quick succession and paper doesn’t lie

We used to do a walk back too 100 to 600 for score inside the target. 3 to 5 shots on a 1MOA target

You can’t take that point from me, I earned it, but you gambled and lost, but I earned it, Series = ok you earned it.

The mental gymnastics people invented to not shoot something they considered harder was insane.
The justifications were always a head scratcher to me, it’s why it’s so contrived today - lots of repetition so people can pass the test. Can’t be prepared if we keep changing the COF on people, wash rinse repeat

 

[Feniks Technologies]

I’m 50/50 on the points gambling stuff.

I see both sides.

One side: you gambled and lost. Make better decisions.

Other side: the wind was dead when they made their decision to gamble. It’s howling now and I have to decline to gamble and now I’m 6 points behind and no other stage allows me to make up 6 points in a single shot.

It also gives people “Hail Mary” chances when they missed shots they shouldn’t have. They gamble and now they are even or ahead of the person who’s shooting better.

In the end, I don’t personally care. When you can make a living winning matches, maybe it’s worth the debate.

But I think both sides make valid points.


Worth noting. I was talking to a local mid to bottom pack shooter about this once. I said that I think the no gambling likely is better for deciding who the better shooter is. He said he liked the gambling. I asked why. His response:

“I’ll never beat a lot of you guys. But I can go for a shot here or there and maybe get closer or get even for a little while. I like it.”

And, as we all know, the top 10% isn’t what keeps matches afloat. It’s everyone else.

So, even if you’re just in this for the money when running matches, listening to the majority of shooters is a better financial decision.

The trick is figuring out if stuff like the mulligan and kyl outcry is the majority or just a vocal minority.

 

[Rob01]

True KYL used to be great. It was part of the game to decide what to do. Most times I would only go to the line with three rounds. Make them count and walk. Whether paper or steel. Didn’t matter.

Paper targets are fine and we used to shoot them all the time before 2012. Hmm what changed? Now the call for paper targets? Lol I think it will come down more to the venue and if they can do it. Not all venues have a firing line to do it quickly and easily.

At some point you have to figure the balance point between meatball matches to make people feel good and everyone gets a trophy and winner with 50% of the points matches. I am not for super easy matches. I cut my teeth shooting hard matches. No one is birthed shooting precision rifles and it comes down to a choice whether you want to quit because you shot bad when starting or you put in the effort to learn the sport and practice. I think keeping the matches challenging keeps the people who want to shoot and do better shooting. This isn’t a sport for everyone no matter how much we want to “gRoW thE spOrt!”

 

[lash]

This isn’t a sport for everyone no matter how much we want to “gRoW thE spOrt!”

A decent point, amongst a couple others you made in that post. I just finished running a .22 Long Range match and as an MD am having second thoughts about the COF, even though I received lots of positive feedback or at least atta boys. The top shooters were just about at 80% of potential points and the bottom of the field was around 50% with one exception.

I’m big into getting kids into the sport and as such kids 16 and under always shoot free, on my dime. Today I had a brand new shooter, an 8yo girl, on my squad. She was having a lot trouble on many of the barricades and zeroed a number of stages. It was obvious to me that even though she and her father were very appreciative, and I sent her home with a plaque (since for the first time she was my only Young Gun and I usually get 4-5)., that she was less than excited about the results.

Part of me totally says that it was a good lesson and I did have a good talk with her Dad about ways to practice barricades at home. But part of me is a real softy and wonders about target sizes and distances, etc. This is probably common for MDs, I know that I tend to analyze the results to see what worked and what didn’t and imagine it’s the same for any MD who cares.

 

[Rob01]

Under 16 shooters are a different story. Like kids with anything they can like something for a while and then move on or find something they really like and keep at it so treating them a little different than a 30 year old is something I would do also. 8 is pretty young to try and explain the barricades but that trophy might make her want to do better next time.

 

[Lowlight]

What I have seen several times at the local matches is letting guys go back and shoot a stage off the clock as training during the match

I did it, I saw Chris do it, had a guy come to the match, good equipment, fancy car, was zeroing every stage, I took him over reshot a stage with him. I have seen others do the same.

Basically teach them as they go. It’s easier at the one day stuff and our layout makes it easier too. But I do toss out the rule book with someone zeroing the world away

Anymore the local stuff is there to experiment vs compete

 

[lash]

We did start letting her just choose one position on a stage and shoot for impacts and practice, after the first couple of stages. And then let her take all her shots past time. I’d much rather they learn how to get hits on at first. It’s not like it’s some threat to the top shooters anyway.

 

[Rob01]

That's a good idea about stage work off clock. The match I shot today had a few new guys and they let them finish off the clock and go back on the prop after everyone was done to get a feel. It's a good way to make them more comfortable. We actually had one guy in the squad who left after 4 stages as he wasn't doing well. I was there with a new shooter I brought to the match or I would have tried to stop him but he seemed like he was ready to go.

 

[Lowlight]

Think about the simple gesture of having a new “training squad” with a mentor to actually explain the stage and demo the execution of said stage

A training squad is a value added proposal that only helps new shooters

As I have heard, it’s the little things

 

[Tree]

As an MD I spend the majority of the match helping others (new shooters, youth) some who just needs a pointer here and there. Does this effect my ability to shoot absolutely. But it’s what helps keep people coming back again and again.

Local matches are a social event interrupted by gunfire for most participants.

If a youth shows up and can’t get a hit. Let ‘em shoot prone. Ringing steel is fun for them.

Most of our shooters care less if they win. They all want to be competitive but really just want to have fun.

We “tier” our matches. Tuesday evenings open shoot, score don’t score, shoot it twice go ahead (the good shooters use it as friendly competition and practice). Weekend match are tougher course of fire. Year end hardest of the year. Everyone knows this.

As stated most come out to learn, improve and socialize. No one is winning a truck.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

As an MD I spend the majority of the match helping others (new shooters, youth) some who just needs a pointer here and there. Does this effect my ability to shoot absolutely. But it’s what helps keep people coming back again and again.

Local matches are a social event interrupted by gunfire for most participants.

If a youth shows up and can’t get a hit. Let ‘em shoot prone. Ringing steel is fun for them.

Most of our shooters care less if they win. They all want to be competitive but really just want to have fun.

We “tier” our matches. Tuesday evenings open shoot, score don’t score, shoot it twice go ahead (the good shooters use it as friendly competition and practice). Weekend match are tougher course of fire. Year end hardest of the year. Everyone knows this.

As stated most come out to learn, improve and socialize. No one is winning a truck.

Wait, there’s no truck for .28 winner this year??

I’m out….

 

[Tree]

Wait, there’s no truck for .28 winner this year??

I’m out….

That’s the exception. That’s my butthurt match where grown adults throw tantrums and people just stop shooting it cause it’s “hard”

 

[Lowlight]

Think about the comments about the local matches

The free training, shooters helping, score, no score, live or admin

Think about the impact, how individuals feel about the outreach

No answer what does the series do to promote, encourage, support or build on stuff like this. You know grow the sport stuff

We hear about the AG qualifiers - nothing for the little guy which is the bigger demographic

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I think people make it overly complicated. maybe its just me but I just want to hang out with like minded individuals, have fun shooting some shit, test myself, hopefully learn some shit. If not then why am I even there?

 

[_Windrider_]

I think people make it overly complicated. maybe its just me but I just want to hang out with like minded individuals, have fun shooting some shit, test myself, hopefully learn some shit. If not then why am I even there?

The prize table. Duh.

 

[Alpine 338]

I've been shooting these matches for 13+ years now, and one thing I see that has changed in the majority of matches, whether PRS, NRL, or Outlaw is that they have transitioned from three and four minute stages to 90 and 120 second stages.

As @D_TROS Mentioned before, missing more than 50% of the targets for a new shooter is mentally defeating, so is timing out on most stages a big mental defeat for new shooters. As a MD and RO, I saw many new shooters state they would never shoot a match like this again by getting defeated by the stopwatch.

Yes, you can get more shooters through a stage (and match) if the stage times are short, but as I believe @lowlight has referred to it as a meat grinder before, it equates to quantity over quality of a match. A quality match doesn't have to go til 8pm with longer stage times if you limit the match to a reasonable number of shooters based on a reasonable amount of stages.

@D_TROS mentioned the SRM at Raton, another match that was one of my favorites was the one day monthly T3 match (same location, and a couple stages) as the two Colorado SnipersHide Cups (Weldona). A very challenging course with targets from 240 to around 1200 yards. I believe that course was an equalizer for any caliber, as the combination of terrain, size/distance of targets, and of course the wind made it a challenge every time. I've shot that match with 6.5x47, 260, 7SAUM, and 300WM, and didn't feel as I had an advantage with any of those calibers over the others. Plus the stage time was 3-min if I recall, which was still short on a few stages where there was movement.

Now, most of the matches are created with stages that favor a heavy 6mm, unrealistic props, with the only movement being within arms reach, and to get as many shooters through the stage in the least amount of time as possible.

 

[Lowlight]

I have said in the past it’s the race to stack bodies on the line. I’ve done it, but always with an eye on the experience

I wanted two outta 5 targets hard, with 3 doable in size and distance

It is a balance and unfortunately some people only know what they see today and not how it was meant to scale from before. It’s a case of ignorance is bliss

Regardless of what the haters say, their job is easy, attack and destroy the messenger. But they won’t answer direct or pointed questions as they have no answer, only regurgitation of spit someone else tossed in their mouth

It’s about improving the experience, making it scalable and interesting

Go back in time, I have given example after example, Archery in this country is one. Their stuff is huge, hunting here, 6x times larger hence the hunter matches

You can clean up and balance the experience - even make it smaller in a way and improve the experience immediately

Just takes the will - I have no interest in standing it up, I’d help the right people and have on numerous occasions- but I’m not taking the lead. I’m burnt out on it. My focus is outside the box to renew my interests

 

[TreyMeTrey]

Hi,

So in light of some of the other threads in regards to discussions of the precision shooting organizations, rules, procedures, methods, etc etc that are clearly NOT sitting well within the community members here.

I would like to task this thread to be a community talent pool to discuss the real importance of growing the sport.

My opinion is that we must put the growth of the sport over the growth of the industry. My thought process behind that is with growth of the sport the industry grows organically as to organizations pushing for growth of the industry without providing a way to grow the sport actually can cause the growth to become stagnant.

DISCLAIMER: I do not have the answers to some of the recently discussed issues but I am here to say that even though my livelihood is the industry....we need growth of the sport first and foremost.

Individual match participants must be increased in a manner to tap into the common man, woman, girl, transgender, etc etc without them being 1 match and out participants because of perceived equipment cost, perceived "I do not fit in", perceived "it doesn't make me a better shooter/hunter", etc etc.

It may come off as kind of opposite mentality and business model as some of my other discussions on my Hoplite Arms thread in which that business model is to go straight to the top in regards to top tier price and market but that really is different than what IMO needs to be done in regards to growing the precision rifle competition base. By growing that precision rifle competition base the law of numbers will grow some of them into big dollar purchasers.

From my side of the house I am requesting us industry folks get behind growing the sports base ahead of growing our industry market.
Not everyone is going to afford a Hoplite Arms rifle and that is ok with me but that does not mean I do not want to support growing the number of shooters that partake in a precision rifle match.
Not everyone is going to afford a RRS Tripod and head but that does not mean they should be discarded in regards to their importance of overall firearm ownership.

Sincerely,
Theis

If a person pay s up and shows up, let them shoot..8 to 80..blind,cripple or crazy.

 

[Tokay444]

 

[IronBar]

How about a few words about the format of one of these matches? I have never played this game. I'm a Long Range Prone - one at a time shooter. Many years ago I showed up at Cherry Point with a rack grade M1 and 5 boxes of regular Ball Ammo with a head stamp in the 40s. I had no idea what was necessary - every shooter there was ready to help me. So help me out here. What minimum stuff do I need to show up and play?

 

[b6graham]

How about a few words about the format of one of these matches? I have never played this game. I'm a Long Range Prone - one at a time shooter. Many years ago I showed up at Cherry Point with a rack grade M1 and 5 boxes of regular Ball Ammo with a head stamp in the 40s. I had no idea what was necessary - every shooter there was ready to help me. So help me out here. What minimum stuff do I need to show up and play?

a rifle with dope/velocity

that's it

google NRL Hunter/PRS/AG Cup to see the format in better detail

simple terms for PRS style matches: 1-12 known distance targets from 1-12 positions in 90-120 seconds

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

How about a few words about the format of one of these matches? I have never played this game. I'm a Long Range Prone - one at a time shooter. Many years ago I showed up at Cherry Point with a rack grade M1 and 5 boxes of regular Ball Ammo with a head stamp in the 40s. I had no idea what was necessary - every shooter there was ready to help me. So help me out here. What minimum stuff do I need to show up and play?

See the rock pile. follow the corse of fire. Out in the patchy snow somehwere is a bunch of shot up white steel targets. good luck finding them.
ready.... Go!

 

[lash]

So yeah, @IronBar , since you’re in Georgia, you are most likely to see formats like what @b6graham posted than the western style field matches like @2aBaCa posted. There are plenty of matches run in and around Georgie. I suggest that you make sure that you have a good repeatable scope, good dope and ammo. Leave your ego at home and go shoot a one day match as close to you as possible.

 

[ajridgedell]

Me and my wife have been shooting one day matches for many years now. I personally liked the balance that the Leupold fall classic offered last weekend. Targets were big enough that new shooters could get hits if they took their time and focused on making good shots. Experienced shooters could be challenged enough due to many different positions even for 2 minute stages. I feel like new shooters are not discouraged by running out of time if they can make hits. If you set up some stages to have "easier" targets at the beginning of the stage, movement, and more difficult targets/ further distances to the end of a stage, I feel like that would strike a good balance.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

So yeah, @IronBar , since you’re in Georgia, you are most likely to see formats like what @b6graham posted than the western style field matches like @2aBaCa posted. There are plenty of matches run in and around Georgie. I suggest that you make sure that you have a good repeatable scope, good dope and ammo. Leave your ego at home and go shoot a one day match as close to you as possible.

lash, I am in Georgia, too. Is there a resource where I can easily find these matches in Georgia in 2023?

 

[Lightning8]

lash, I am in Georgia, too. Is there a resource where I can easily find these matches in Georgia in 2023?

Cool Acres near Swainsboro offers PRS and PRS rimfire.
Riverbend near Atlanta is hosting some non-affiliated PRS like events
Legion down in Blakely host NRL and PRS (I think)
Multiple ranges offer NRL22
Alabama, Florida, TN, offer events
I shoot PRS and PRS rimfire so I use the PRS main site and Practiscore to find events

 

[lash]

lash, I am in Georgia, too. Is there a resource where I can easily find these matches in Georgia in 2023?

@Lightning8 pretty much covered it. I’m not in Georgia, so don’t have much first hand knowledge there, but when I’m looking for matches I go to the various websites. PRS, NRL, PractiScore etc. to find them. They are broken down by region and state.

 

[stanley_white]

Having a whopping one PRS match under my belt I shall declare that having to have your bolt back when changing positions is stupid.

-Stan

 

[Mormegil87]

Care to elaborate?

 

[Tokay444]

Having a whopping one PRS match under my belt I shall declare that having to have your bolt back when changing positions is stupid.

-Stan

Just wait until you shoot at Rifles Only and have to take your mag out too.

 

[stanley_white]

Care to elaborate?

Opening my bolt to move from one rung on a ladder obstacle to another is excessive.

Pointing my firearm in a safe direction and having my finger off the trigger is sufficient.

Admittedly, maybe other shooting disciplines have spoiled me.

-Stan

 

[Mormegil87]

Opening my bolt to move from one rung on a ladder obstacle to another is excessive.

Pointing my firearm in a safe direction and having my finger off the trigger is sufficient.

Admittedly, maybe other shooting disciplines have spoiled me.

-Stan

It's only excessive until someone moves on a closed bolt and touches the trigger, sending a round into the next county. That rule is in place to protect MDs and ranges so we can continue to shoot. Rounds leaving the range is what kills this sport in areas.

 

[Rob01]

Opening my bolt to move from one rung on a ladder obstacle to another is excessive.

Pointing my firearm in a safe direction and having my finger off the trigger is sufficient.

Admittedly, maybe other shooting disciplines have spoiled me.

-Stan

Wait until you get called for “sky bolting” by being in position and closing the bolt before your face is on the stock and you are looking through the scope. Usually only wanna be tough guy NRL22 guys call it though.

 

[lash]

Opening my bolt to move from one rung on a ladder obstacle to another is excessive.

Pointing my firearm in a safe direction and having my finger off the trigger is sufficient.

Admittedly, maybe other shooting disciplines have spoiled me.

-Stan

Yes, you’ve become lax in your safety regimens. I’ve seen enough NDs in this sport to know that it’s always because someone brushed that 6-8oz. Trigger before they got on target and let an uncontrolled round headed elsewhere. If that’s what you consider unnecessary, then perhaps you should stick to other things.

I’d feel safer.

 

[b6graham]

Yes, you’ve become lax in your safety regimens. I’ve seen enough NDs in this sport to know that it’s always because someone brushed that 6-8oz. Trigger before they got on target and let an uncontrolled round headed elsewhere. If that’s what you consider unnecessary, then perhaps you should stick to other things.

I’d feel safer.

with you on that

seen more than enough guns go off to not want bolt closed movement or sky loading

 

[stanley_white]

As I said above, context is key, I don't have to move with my slide locked to the rear or my revolver cylinder swung open in USPSA, but also too, there aren't many 8oz triggers in USPSA.

I live, I learn.

Thank you for squaring me away gentlemen.

-Stan

 

[Tokay444]

And your 9mm Minor isn’t going to end up in the next county.

 

[NiteQwill]

Shot at a match years ago where there was a skyward ND on a [bolt] rifle on movement from an experienced shooter (they wanted to reposition themselves on one part of the barricade after determining their initial game plan wasn't ideal - so, instead of bolt up and back, they moved).

That ended the match right there for everyone. The direction of the round was a tract of houses. Luckily, nothing happened. We no longer shoot matches there as the MD wasn't keen on potential liability.

 

[epeet]

Shooting sports that have endured either have large appeal or structural support, ideally both. Large appeal meaning the sports are accessible and fun - accessible is a huge challenge for long range shooting centric sports, because there are less and less ranges suitable. Structural support means things like the National Matches, or NRA sponsorships, or Olympics, etc, that guarantee a certain amount of programatic function. Fun is subjective, but a lot of shooters are attracted to competition from the perspective of improving at something they already enjoy. When you skew a sport towards what challenges the very top competitors, you can make it inaccessible to a lot of other participants.

I love competitive shooting and used to compete regularly in 3 Gun, IDPA, and USPSA. I love shooting rifles at distance. I don't ever expect to participate in PRS for the simple reason that it doesn't reinforce skills I'm interested in learning, or equipment I want to use. I don't hunt with a 20 pound rifle, for example, no one does. I don't shoot free-recoil, I don't build guns that need to balance at the magwell, and I don't run 8 oz triggers with marginal sear engagement. People would have laughed at you years ago if you said PRS would turn into a faster paced Benchrest but with camo stocks.

Most other shooting sports that purport to resemble real-life firearm usage take steps to prevent the equipment race with sensible rules. Minimum calibers, power factors, weight limits, and the utter practicality that is moving through a course of fire with your firearm.

 

[lash]

So, I guess we won’t be seeing you at a match soon?

 

[CK1.0]

People would have laughed at you years ago if you said PRS would turn into a faster paced Benchrest but with camo stocks.

Man, I don’t want to sound like a dick, but you don’t know what you’re talking about and are out of your depth. As someone who also comes from the USPSA/IDPA/3-gun side of things, I think you need to go shoot a match in order to find out how wrong you are.

Building a position and then shooting something like a .4Mil wide target at like 700-800 yards off a rickety ass barricade while on the clock is a little different and arguably tougher than any Benchrest stuff I’ve ever heard of.

Yeah, PRS is expensive and just finding and getting to matches can be a PITA sometimes, but don’t shit on something because you don’t understand it yet, you might actually like it.

 

[lash]

^^^This^^^